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Marko hits out at Vettel Critics [split]


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#151 tifosiMac

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 19:31

Who else has the so-called freakin' impressive titles to their name though? Of the current crop, they are either easy titles or merely impressive titles.

And if Vettel supposedly has all these flaws yet has won 3 titles, how much will he win when he becomes half decent?

Another question to ask is how are we going to cope when he hits a period of not winning titles every year? How can anything less be good enough for him now?

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#152 gillesthegenius

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 19:34

Who is talking about the great Fangio or Senna?

I rate SV highly. He is an elite driver. But Marko's lame attempt at discrediting the comments of Stewart at utterly pathetic. I think that JS is right. SV needs to win races in a car other than a supercar in normal conditions.

FA has done it, as have all the greats. I am not so sure about SV though.


The car that RBR took to Bahrain this year or the ones that they took to Spain and Monaco last year were not exactly super cars, or atleast werent the 'most super car' of those weekends. In any case I like your inclusion of the words 'normal condtions' that would rule out a certain drive to the top step of the podium in the land of the Tifosi. Gone are the days when wet conditions were supposed to seperate the boys from the men. But then again how could something Seb can do be any difficult? Right?;)

#153 LaoTze

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 19:40

Funny that people here think that Vettel _has_ to prove something, to what? A bunch of armchair experts who are just jealous of him...

Edited by LaoTze, 09 January 2013 - 19:41.


#154 tifosiMac

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 19:42

Funny that people here think that Vettel _has_ to prove something, to what? A bunch of armchair experts who are just jealous of him...

Opinions eh?

They'll be inventing internet discussion boards for sharing them next.

#155 gillesthegenius

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 19:46

"There is a lot of nonsense being said," he said. "'Vettel can't overtake.' Ridiculous; just look at Abu Dhabi and Brazil. 'He is only able to win because he's sitting in a Newey car.' We have two Newey cars, so why aren't we clinching one-two at every race?

1) Vettel spun out and it was only in having a Newey car did he catch the rest of the field.

2) Marko answers his own 1-2 finish question in his assessment of MW.


"Then the comment of the great Jackie Stewart that Vettel must go to another team to prove himself. This is said by someone who scored all his greatest successes in just one team, Tyrrell."

1) SV won all his WDCs in supercars. Nothing wrong with that. The fact that he has not won a race starting lower than 3 cannot be glossed over.

"I can't take it seriously. We at Red Bull Racing are not just a bunch of civil servants. As long as we provide Sebastian with a car and an environment in which he can become World Champion, he will probably stay with us.

"If both do not fit, then we have to come up with something fresh. But we have a very good junior programme, and maybe some day someone else will become champion in our car."

Fair points. But RB also have the largest budget in F1, which sort of undercuts all of the praise that you heap on SV vis-à-vis FA.

Alonso is constantly involved in politics. I believe we saw the stress he was under towards the end of the season. Saying things like, 'I'm competing against Hamilton, not Vettel,' and 'I'm up against Newey,' these psychological skirmishes. We said, 'Just ignore him.'"

If FA supposedly split concentration is enough to almost defeat the superior talent or SV and Newey and financial might of RB combined..... Then, I would be massively afraid of a fully focused (supposedly) FA!

All that crap spewed on MW, answers why RB do not finish 1-2 every race ;)


But the fact that Senna didnt win from anywhere lower than fifth can be glossed over? And did you really watch the 2012 Brazillian Gp, in which Sebastian's damaged RBR was struggling in the dry conditions when downforce - the strength of Newey cars - was most required and was flying at about a second a lap faster than the rest of the field in the wet conditions when the driver's skill was most required?

Edited by gillesthegenius, 09 January 2013 - 19:49.


#156 Supersleeper

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 20:04

:lol: :lol:

Jesus, you really got butthurt about the comment. It´s not a big deal buddy.

No - it's just embarrassing. He doesn't speak on behalf of the team. He makes the ultimate faux pas of mentioning Ferrari and then caps himself off (as one of the most, if not the most poltical figure in the paddock) by using the words "politics" and "Alonso" in the same sentence. Alonso put in an exemplary performance last season. He's out of the loop - Alonso was resoundingly acclaimed by the paddock as the driver of the year. He speaks as if that didn't happen.

As for his comments defending Vettel - it's fine to do that - but if you have to stoop to that level, then in some way you validate those who've said it, as if their comments had merit.

He swings at pitches in the dirt. Doesn't know when to speak and when to listen, addresses issues of irrelevance, whilst avoiding the opportunity to capitalise on their fantastic achievements, not only over the last 3 years, but since their inception, and on every given opportunity fails to do so. He should be gagged, because whilst ever he speaks - we're all listening to the least of what the sport is about.

#157 schubacca

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 20:05

But the fact that Senna didnt win from anywhere lower than fifth can be glossed over? And did you really watch the 2012 Brazillian Gp, in which Sebastian's damaged RBR was struggling in the dry conditions when downforce - the strength of Newey cars - was most required and was flying at about a second a lap faster than the rest of the field in the wet conditions when the driver's skill was most required?


5th is better than 3rd.

But...... We are not talking about Senna. We are talking about Marko's comments and the vitriol that he spewed to FA/JS/and even MW.

I watched the last race. FA drove a better race in an inferior car.







#158 Supersleeper

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 20:10

Any juicy Mark-to-Ferrari rumors you can toss us?

No - things are far too interesting this week - I'll just wait for a bit of a lull.... :p


#159 MrPodium

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 20:21

Marko has done nothing more than reinforce opinion that Webber will never be allowed a clear and fair chance to capture the WDC, and the entire team is built around Vettel, just adding credence to Webber's "not bad for a number two drivers'" comments. Why on earth publicly berate one of your drivers before the season has even started? It's not exactly good for morale, is it? Unless, of course, you only gave a toss about one driver. Which is exactly why people are calling for Vettel to prove himself against a teammate on level terms (which don't appear to exist, and that's before the points tally starts).

I can remember similar debates a few years ago with another (recently retired) German driver. It's almost like ground hog day!




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#160 Winter98

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 20:26

I rate SV highly. He is an elite driver. But Marko's lame attempt at discrediting the comments of Stewart at utterly pathetic. I think that JS is right. SV needs to win races in a car other than a supercar in normal conditions.

FA has done it, as have all the greats. I am not so sure about SV though.


SV has only won in a supercar? Alonso has won in something other than a supercar?

Can you please provide the full telemetry, for the entire year, from their cars and the other cars on the grid at the time?

If you can't, then these claims as to which cars were supercars, and which ones weren't, is purely conjecture on your part

Edited by Winter98, 09 January 2013 - 20:27.


#161 Winter98

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 20:33

I can remember similar debates a few years ago with another (recently retired) German driver. It's almost like ground hog day!


Indeed, it is almost like groundhog day.

The difference is that at that time, MS's abilities were lowered substantially in the eyes of many because of that help. Today, it is apparently completely unfair to suggest Alonso's abilities should be viewed at a lower level because he also has a true wingman a'la MS.

I couldn't help notice you mentioned MS's country of origin. Do you think that might have something to do with the double standard being applied?

Edited by Winter98, 09 January 2013 - 20:34.


#162 ayali

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 20:40

He doesn't speak on behalf of the team.

Au contraire he speaks very much on behalf of the team and it's owner, even more so as his comments are in the official magazine of the company that owns the team. :lol:

Dunno why you get all upset about Marko's comments, there's nothing in there that Mark hasn't heard before and if he's honest with himself he would agree with most of the criticism Marko and the team have on him in the article.

#163 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 20:52

I watched the last race. FA drove a better race in an inferior car.


Apparently you watched a totally different race.

Massa gifted Alonso 2nd place.

Massa also made Webber's RBR look like a truck.

If Massa was allowed to go Flat Out, he might even have pinched a win from Button.

But Ferrari didn't allow Massa to go Flat Out, did they?

#164 Blackmadonna

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 22:12

Apparently you watched a totally different race.

Massa gifted Alonso 2nd place.

Massa also made Webber's RBR look like a truck.

If Massa was allowed to go Flat Out, he might even have pinched a win from Button.

But Ferrari didn't allow Massa to go Flat Out, did they?



:rotfl: some stories just never die!

#165 rijole1

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 22:27

I think one big part changed in the relationshiop between Webber and RBR. It is no longer certain that Vettel will stay with RBR and there are young drivers on the market who promise to be better than Mark. And Marko now clearly hinted that RBR is willing to look outside their own driver program, when it comes to filling the seat at RBR.
I dare say, that if a TR guy would have driven like Hülkenberg or Perez in 2012, Mark might be without a job now.

It seems to me that Marko is really irritated on Webber right now - Maybe Brazil 1st turn was just too much...

I agree with everything Marko said.

:up:

He can be a bit of a dickhead from time to time...but his comments are 100% bang on.

Agree with his comments too. And as usual - he's not so polite or diplomatic  ;)
But I think there is some serious business goin' on - You should never ever underestimate the power of Mr Marko...

#166 Rikhart

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 22:28

:rotfl: some stories just never die!


Maybe because its all true?

#167 Supersleeper

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 23:30

Au contraire he speaks very much on behalf of the team and it's owner, even more so as his comments are in the official magazine of the company that owns the team. :lol:


1 article in a magazine over several years and some self important foot-in-mouth episodes might make you a spokesperson of the local scout group perhaps....

Dunno why you get all upset about Marko's comments, there's nothing in there that Mark hasn't heard before and if he's honest with himself he would agree with most of the criticism Marko and the team have on him in the article.

Because he dilutes the teams achievements by running around swatting at flies. He's just so low brow - it's embarrassing to the team and their efforts - and no individual, no matter how far they have managed to shove their head up their own arse should ever be permitted to do that. He's had it in for Mark since a certain episode (that I won't repeat - having been deleted from another thread a few days ago) - nothings going to change that - everyone knows how it goes. That's just the way it is. The article was a cheap shot, Red Bull OK'd it. I guess they're happy being seen in that light as an organisation.

They should have been well above those comments as a global business - they aren't - it's disappointing.

#168 Ian G

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 23:44

. He's had it in for Mark since a certain episode (that I won't repeat - having been deleted from another thread a few days ago) - nothings going to change that - everyone knows how it goes. That's just the way it is. The article was a cheap shot, Red Bull OK'd it. I guess they're happy being seen in that light as an organisation.
They should have been well above those comments as a global business - they aren't - it's disappointing.


..your still around SS,how about a few posts over at AMS,its very quiet there at the moment.

Yeah,very surprising comments from an official RB document,esp. when the season hasn't even stated yet,has me intrigued to where it will all lead but unfortunately we will have to wait for Mark's book to get his reply to the latest Marko drivel.

"certain episode",was that when Marko had a go(insult) at Ann after Mark's German GP win in 2010 ?

Edited by Ian G, 10 January 2013 - 10:31.


#169 Winter98

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 23:50

Because he dilutes the teams achievements by running around swatting at flies. He's just so low brow - it's embarrassing to the team and their efforts - and no individual, no matter how far they have managed to shove their head up their own arse should ever be permitted to do that. He's had it in for Mark since a certain episode (that I won't repeat - having been deleted from another thread a few days ago) - nothings going to change that - everyone knows how it goes. That's just the way it is. The article was a cheap shot, Red Bull OK'd it. I guess they're happy being seen in that light as an organisation.

They should have been well above those comments as a global business - they aren't - it's disappointing.


Interesting take.

I find Marko's comments far less egregious than Alonso's Newey comments. How do you see Alonso, and Ferrari who supported him?

#170 gillesthegenius

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 01:18

5th is better than 3rd.

But...... We are not talking about Senna. We are talking about Marko's comments and the vitriol that he spewed to FA/JS/and even MW.

I watched the last race. FA drove a better race in an inferior car.


Inferior car? Isnt there an end to the myths created to make Fernando's season look better than it actually was? I guess you didnt follow the race of a certain Felipe Massa that day. Inspite of playing rear-gunner to Fernando for much of the race, Felipe was on his way to easily beating Fernando untill he was 'ordered' to slow down and let Fernando by.

#171 Kingshark

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 01:22

Inferior car? Isnt there an end to the myths created to make Fernando's season look better than it actually was? I guess you didnt follow the race of a certain Felipe Massa that day. Inspite of playing rear-gunner to Fernando for much of the race, Felipe was on his way to easily beating Fernando untill he was 'ordered' to slow down and let Fernando by.

:rotfl:

I guess you didn't follow the part where Alonso was ahead of Massa for 80% of the race, from Lap 2 till Lap 56; and Massa only jumped him because he pitted for Inters one lap sooner?

But you didn't know that, did you?

Vettel very nearly threw away what should have been a very easy championship after India considering Red Bull's superior pace to Ferrari everywhere bar Spain and Italy. Doesn't sound like a very focused boy to me. He nearly choked.

#172 gillesthegenius

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:02

:rotfl:

I guess you didn't follow the part where Alonso was ahead of Massa for 80% of the race, from Lap 2 till Lap 56; and Massa only jumped him because he pitted for Inters one lap sooner?

But you didn't know that, did you?

Vettel very nearly threw away what should have been a very easy championship after India considering Red Bull's superior pace to Ferrari everywhere bar Spain and Italy. Doesn't sound like a very focused boy to me. He nearly choked.


Alonso may have been ahead of Massa for 80% of the race. But that was only because Massa was playing rear gunner to Alonso. I guess you conveniently forgot that. Massa finally got ahead of Alonso because he was genuinely faster than Fernando that day. Not because Ferrari suddenly decided to give him a better strategy than Fernando. Besides Superior pace isnt much help when your alternator fails on you twice and your engine supplier gets you thrown out of qualy by miscalculating your fuel requirements.

#173 AndreasF1

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:20

:rotfl:

I guess you didn't follow the part where Alonso was ahead of Massa for 80% of the race, from Lap 2 till Lap 56; and Massa only jumped him because he pitted for Inters one lap sooner?

But you didn't know that, did you?

Vettel very nearly threw away what should have been a very easy championship after India considering Red Bull's superior pace to Ferrari everywhere bar Spain and Italy. Doesn't sound like a very focused boy to me. He nearly choked.



How exactly did Vettel choke? He pullded it off by not only beating Alonso to the championship when it was almost out of reach but also beat Alonso at his own game. As an outsider it looked very much that Alonso didn't have the psychological edge over Vettel that he had hoped. If anything Alonso has been known to throw it away on more than one occasion. Fuji 2007 ring a bell?? Next hear should be very interesting. Vettel has beaten Alonso now 3x to the championship...


#174 Supersleeper

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:52

"certain episode",was that when Marko had a go at Ann after Mark's German GP win in 2010 ?

No mate - another one. After a qualy session.


#175 Supersleeper

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:05

How do you see Alonso, and Ferrari who supported him?

Go and have a look just prior to the podium ceremony at Monaco this year. Alonso greets Newey with a reverence I have never seen before - it's amazing. I think that puts Alonso's comments in perspective. Sure there may have been a jibe in there toward Vettel, but I genuinely think that Alonso has a amazing respect for Newey and may have felt that leaving him out of the answer of what composed the path to the drivers championship wouldn't have answered the question from his perspective.

I don't see Alonso as particularly political - he'll do as much to improve his own chances of winning as any other driver in the field. I just draw the line at a senior person within a team turning on one of their own - through the mouthpiece of the parent company. It was entirely uncalled for and added nothing to the article other than confirmation that Red Bull "allow their athletes to do the talking" - cons and pros in that I suppose.

#176 schubacca

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:53

SV has only won in a supercar? Alonso has won in something other than a supercar?

Can you please provide the full telemetry, for the entire year, from their cars and the other cars on the grid at the time?

If you can't, then these claims as to which cars were supercars, and which ones weren't, is purely conjecture on your part


We dont need telemetry.

We have the eyeball test.

Are you saying that the RB 2012 was not the best car of the season?

Marko seems intent on revising history. The problem is that the season ended a few months ago and a lot of us know the genius of FA and the superiority of the RB compared to that of the Ferrari.

In Marko's world FA was politicking and unfocused.

My observation was that FA was extremely focused and operating at his peak.

In Marko's world, the RB 2012 was not the best car.

My observation is that the Mclaren broke down too much and that the Ferrari was not very good at the beginning of the season.

I know why Marko is yapping: He does not want Red Bull to be portrayed like Ferrari during their domination in the 2000's. The problem is that there are parallels...

1) Budget

2) Having the top car

3) Exploiting the rules to the max

I have no problems with what Red Bull achieved. But next we are gonna have Ferrari zealots say that Schumacher's 2003 car was not a super car.

RB should be proud of what they achieved. However, rewriting history to make it sound as if SV battled massive adversity a la the Battle of Thermopylae is outright laughable.

That is the gist of Marko's comments. The car was not the greatest.... FA was not at peak, and SV transcended all limitations and won the WDC.

of course, this is my reading :)

#177 repcobrabham

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:55

first of all, :up: for the classical reference.

i think what dr marko said wasn't inaccurate re. MW and reflects the sentiments of many on this board (including MW fans like myself) but the problem is that dr marko isn't just some anonymous poster. even in the less structured and free-talking 'olden days' a senior figure in a team wouldn't publicly diss a driver unless they had an agenda to pursue. this is clearly the case here.

#178 Kelateboy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:21

Alonso may have been ahead of Massa for 80% of the race. But that was only because Massa was playing rear gunner to Alonso. I guess you conveniently forgot that. Massa finally got ahead of Alonso because he was genuinely faster than Fernando that day. Not because Ferrari suddenly decided to give him a better strategy than Fernando. Besides Superior pace isnt much help when your alternator fails on you twice and your engine supplier gets you thrown out of qualy by miscalculating your fuel requirements.

And with a certain Indian driver in the mix that cost him dearly in Malaysia and Austin. :)

#179 Winter98

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:21

We dont need telemetry.

We have the eyeball test.


So, do you think these F1 teams are wasting millions on acquiring and interpreting telemetry when they could ask someone in the stands to use the old eyeball test and tell them what is really happening on the track?

Are you saying that the RB 2012 was not the best car of the season?


I think it would be fair to say it was one of the fastest along with Ferrari and McLaren. Without the actual team data, and a few experts in various fields to help evaluate all the factors that would go into deciding which car is "best", it would be impossible to say with any certainty.

Down the stretch Massa found speed in the Ferrari. Just because Alonso couldn't match him and let yet another WDC slip away is not sufficient reason to say the Ferrari was slow.

Marko seems intent on revising history. The problem is that the season ended a few months ago and a lot of us know the genius of FA and the superiority of the RB compared to that of the Ferrari.


Are you sure you understand what is meant by "revising history", because that's what it appears you are trying to do here.

I have no problems with what Red Bull achieved. But next we are gonna have Ferrari zealots say that Schumacher's 2003 car was not a super car.


... or Alonso zealots trying to explain away their hero's loss by claiming the 2012 RBR was a super car.

RB should be proud of what they achieved. However, rewriting history to make it sound as if SV battled massive adversity a la the Battle of Thermopylae is outright laughable.


In the OP's linked article we are discussing here Marko doesn't mention the Battle of Thermopylae, massive adversity, or anything remotely connected to it. Again, it appears you are the one trying to rewrite history.

I think it would be fair to suggest Marko feels SV faced the same adversity as the other three time WDC winners.

Edited by Winter98, 10 January 2013 - 05:26.


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#180 Seanspeed

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:26

There again is that myth that anybody ever said the Ferrari was slow. Some people just dont like hearing that Alonso probably had a more impressive season than Vettel did considering the machinery. And that clearly includes Marko. Anything to downplay Alonso in favor of making Vettel look good. He would be right at home in this forum, really.

#181 Winter98

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:34

There again is that myth that anybody ever said the Ferrari was slow. Some people just dont like hearing that Alonso probably had a more impressive season than Vettel did considering the machinery. And that clearly includes Marko. Anything to downplay Alonso in favor of making Vettel look good. He would be right at home in this forum, really.


I think you have it backwards.

SV's actual achievements, three WDCs on the trot, matching the great Fangio and MS, say it all. That's why he has secured his spot amongst the legends of F1 at the tender age of 25.




#182 AyrtonSauna

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:41

Marko has to be worst member of Red Bull.I thought RED Bull were kind of cool until I started hearing his coorperate comments.On the bright side it makes me more proud to be a Ferrari Fan.

#183 goldenboy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:32

for people claiming webber v marko public comments are tit fot tat against each other, it would be interesting to see a list of what eachother has said regarding the other. It would look rather one sided.

#184 seahawk

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:36

Did you read what Marko says about Mateschitz? Mateschitz prefers to be positive and motivate the team, but if you consider that the interview was posted in the Red Bull magazine, one can be sure that everything said is said for a reason and that Mateschitz knows about it and supports it.

#185 Winter98

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:38

Mateschitz prefers to be positive and motivate the team, but if you consider that the interview was posted in the Red Bull magazine, one can be sure that everything said is said for a reason and that Mateschitz knows about it and supports it.


This makes the most sense.

#186 Zava

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:49

My observation is that the Mclaren broke down too much and that the Ferrari was not very good at the beginning of the season.

what is this myth I see everywhere about mclaren? Hamilton had 2 race ending problems (singapore, abu dhabi), and a not race ending, but big problem (korea). same for Vettel bar the not race ending one. Button had 2 DNFs (monza, bahrain) but the bahrain one was from the last laps after a puncture (?) putting him out of the top10, maybe that was gearbox saving, Webber had 1 race ending DNF (austin) and a big problem in valencia quali (no DRS, out in q1) I fail to see the big difference here. maybe people exaggerate this point because Hamilton lost a bunch of points and the chance to compete for the WDC, but no, mech problems were not the main part of the points loss, it was about equal with bad luck (germany, valencia, brasil) and then there was incompetence from the team as well (pit stops, barcelona quali, etc) so no, reliability isn't what lost Hamilton the (chance to compete for the) WDC. the actual WDC had about as much problems, although lost a good 20 poins less from those than Hamilton.

#187 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:52

Marko thinks he is Enzo Ferrari.

#188 H2H

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:29

To be honest I really don't think that goold old Didi will edit something like an article in the Red Bulletin. He is certainly far from being a micromanager and enjoys life between business and jet-set. He tries to get the right people for the job like Marko who gets the other right people like Horner and Newey ( + Vettel) which get in turn the other right people.

Edited by H2H, 10 January 2013 - 08:31.


#189 Black Widow

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:59

I think you have it backwards.

SV's actual achievements, three WDCs on the trot, matching the great Fangio and MS, say it all. That's why he has secured his spot amongst the legends of F1 at the tender age of 25.


Gee, glad we have it corrected.

I always looked at it as, three WDCs on the trot and three WCCs on the trot.

Glad to see there is no correlation between the two

.

Edited by Black Widow, 10 January 2013 - 09:00.


#190 mnmracer

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:09

Gee, glad we have it corrected.

I always looked at it as, three WDCs on the trot and three WCCs on the trot.

Glad to see there is no correlation between the two.

Indeed (when removing your sarcasm).
Of the 29 world champions since the introduction of the WCC, 20 have won all their WDCs along with the WCC, including Senna and Clark.
Of the 54 world championships since the introduction of the WCC, 44 have been won along with the WCC, including 9 of Prost and Schumacher's combined 11.

#191 Winter98

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:27

Gee, glad we have it corrected.

I always looked at it as, three WDCs on the trot and three WCCs on the trot.

Glad to see there is no correlation between the two

.


Huh? Obviously there is a correlation between the two.

#192 bourbon

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:34

There again is that myth that anybody ever said the Ferrari was slow. Some people just dont like hearing that Alonso probably had a more impressive season than Vettel did considering the machinery. And that clearly includes Marko. Anything to downplay Alonso in favor of making Vettel look good. He would be right at home in this forum, really.


I think that is Marko's point: some people just don't like hearing that Vettel + RB8 had a more impressive season than Alonso + F2012, considering the championship results.


#193 noikeee

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:37

http://www.jamesalle...ut-mark-webber/

James Allen suggests these comments are a way to put pressure on Mark, and the team itself, which will be tired and perhaps slightly too comfortable/complacent on the back of 3 world titles. There's obviously a long standing anti-Webber vibe from Marko so it can be viewed that way too, but this interpretation makes some sense to me, once you've won everything for a couple of years, you need to invent new ways of making people keep wanting to prove themselves. Pretty clever actually.

#194 Black Widow

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:56

http://www.jamesalle...ut-mark-webber/

James Allen suggests these comments are a way to put pressure on Mark, and the team itself, which will be tired and perhaps slightly too comfortable/complacent on the back of 3 world titles. There's obviously a long standing anti-Webber vibe from Marko so it can be viewed that way too, but this interpretation makes some sense to me, once you've won everything for a couple of years, you need to invent new ways of making people keep wanting to prove themselves. Pretty clever actually.


Hmmmm..... if it pretty clever actually, then I am confused. Where is Marko's motivation for his protégé Vettel? Vettel has been the one that has won everything for a couple of years, so I would have thought by this analogy he would have been the one that most needed the motivation.


:confused:

#195 noikeee

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:10

Hmmmm..... if it pretty clever actually, then I am confused. Where is Marko's motivation for his protégé Vettel? Vettel has been the one that has won everything for a couple of years, so I would have thought by this analogy he would have been the one that most needed the motivation.


:confused:


Fair point, and again I stress I too believe there is some bias from Marko towards the Vettel side of the garage, so I'm not sure this is 100% all about "motivation". But antagonizing Vettel wouldn't really accomplish anything other than making him consider a move to Ferrari more seriously. Better to cause some minor stir from the other side of the garage and hope the competitive spirit catches on.

I also suggest his sniping comments at Alonso, spicing up the Ferrari rivalry, is his part of trying to keep the Vettel side motivated.

Marko's whole motto of "in F1 you can't be successful if you're addicted to harmony" (paraphrased) suggests he does think somewhat along these lines.

#196 goldenboy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:19

http://www.jamesalle...ut-mark-webber/

James Allen suggests these comments are a way to put pressure on Mark, and the team itself, which will be tired and perhaps slightly too comfortable/complacent on the back of 3 world titles. There's obviously a long standing anti-Webber vibe from Marko so it can be viewed that way too, but this interpretation makes some sense to me, once you've won everything for a couple of years, you need to invent new ways of making people keep wanting to prove themselves. Pretty clever actually.

It's a nice idea but he has always been this way. It's nothing new.

#197 Juan Kerr

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 11:00

It seems to me that Marko is really irritated on Webber right now - Maybe Brazil 1st turn was just too much...


Agree with his comments too. And as usual - he's not so polite or diplomatic ;)
But I think there is some serious business goin' on - You should never ever underestimate the power of Mr Marko...

Nah he's a bit bitter and twisted, what's his qualification for being in the position he's in by the way? Just interested to know.

Edit: I just had a look, yeah seems well qualified for the roll setting up the Red Bull junior program and everything perhaps he's just bitter about anyone who takes anything away from Vettel who was a product of his 'baby'.

Edited by Juan Kerr, 10 January 2013 - 11:04.


#198 mnmracer

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 11:05

Nah he's a bit bitter and twisted, what's his qualification for being in the position he's in by the way? Just interested to know.

Former Formula One driver, Le Mans winner
Talent-spotted, among others: Gerhard Berger, Karl Wendlinger, Jörg Müller, Juan-Pablo Montoya.
Ran a Formula 3 and Formula 3000 team (RSM Marko), and was contacted by Red Bull while in F3000.

He also walked up to Adrian Newey, gave him his business card and said "you will call me".

A bit bitter perhaps, but as an Austrian lawyer, what do you expect?
He seems quite skilled at his actual job though.

Edited by mnmracer, 10 January 2013 - 11:08.


#199 Supersleeper

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 11:15

If I follow JA's logic, then Marko wants Alonso to do extremely well this season too....

:drunk:




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#200 noikeee

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 11:29

If I follow JA's logic, then Marko wants Alonso to do extremely well this season too....

:drunk:


No because Alonso and Ferrari are in a different situation, already well motivated desperate to claim back the title, it will be the Red Bull camp on the back of 3 titles that will benefit the most from a boost in motivation coming from a spiced up rivalry. On the contrary more pressure on Ferrari's side would rather make them more nervous, than fix any kind of complacency. Notice that Alonso felt the need to reply to this...

At least that's my theory, mindgames aren't a linear science and their effect can be completely negligible. And yes I'm aware it's ironic he's calling out Alonso for making up mindgames as a mindgame.