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Marko hits out at Vettel Critics [split]


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#401 KavB

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 00:59

Also I see a big difference in philosophy in Alonso declaring that he would drive for Massa where the cards reversed. I am still waiting for such a statement from Vettel (that he would drive for Webber were the cards reversed), but we can be sure that Dr. Marko will see to that, that the cards will never be reversed. In fact he stated already so in his Red Bulletin interview.


Well firstly, Alonso would have been asked if he would move over for Massa in response to Massa's claims that Alonso would help him. Vettel isn't going to say out of the blue "I'd move over for my teammate" unless a journalist asks.

Secondly, I can't recall correctly but didn't Vettel say before Abu Dhabi 2010 that he would help the team win the title should the situation present itself, i.e. he would let Webber win the race if he's running behind him and Alonso is in a position where Seb can't win. This was when he could have won the championship himself... Webber himself said he wouldn't do the same.

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#402 BillBald

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 01:11

So every thing Newey touches turns gold? He's never produced a non-championship winning car? 1994, 1995, 2000-2009 never happened?


Maybe the difference is that at Red Bull, Newey seems to be very much in charge.




#403 aditya-now

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 01:23

Secondly, I can't recall correctly but didn't Vettel say before Abu Dhabi 2010 that he would help the team win the title should the situation present itself, i.e. he would let Webber win the race if he's running behind him and Alonso is in a position where Seb can't win. This was when he could have won the championship himself... Webber himself said he wouldn't do the same.


He did, back then.

If he would do now was the question I raised. Anyway, that is all hypothetic, as Dr.Marko made already clear before the season starts that Mark will have to race for Seb (again).


#404 mnmracer

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:29

He did, back then.

If he would do now was the question I raised. Anyway, that is all hypothetic, as Dr.Marko made already clear before the season starts that Mark will have to race for Seb (again).

So you're trusting Alonso's words over his actions?
You've forgotten about two race wins of Webber against any time Massa came close in '12, he was told to back off?

And Marko didn't say he will have to race for Seb, he said he doesn't see Webber suddenly becoming faster than Vettel, in which case (ergo, if that turns out to be true again), he would move over once in the whole season again.

#405 H2H

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 09:52

So you're trusting Alonso's words over his actions?
You've forgotten about two race wins of Webber against any time Massa came close in '12, he was told to back off?

And Marko didn't say he will have to race for Seb, he said he doesn't see Webber suddenly becoming faster than Vettel, in which case (ergo, if that turns out to be true again), he would move over once in the whole season again.


I certainly know in which I trust when it comes to choose between words and facts....

It is amusing to read some posts which fall for words of a driver who acted against that very spirit all his long career long. :lol:

So Marko was indeed right - and wrong as some still seem to be fooled by obvious political games...

Edited by H2H, 21 January 2013 - 09:53.


#406 gillesthegenius

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 10:49

He did, back then.

If he would do now was the question I raised. Anyway, that is all hypothetic, as Dr.Marko made already clear before the season starts that Mark will have to race for Seb (again).


What Kind of question is that? The only time Seb was in a position where he might have had to support Webber, he was ready to do it. But the only time Alonso was in such a situation (remember 2007?), he had already thrown all his toys out of his pram.

#407 aditya-now

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 11:19

Alonso tickling Dr.Marko even a little bit more…

It seems this will be a continuing saga in 2013.

#408 gillesthegenius

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 11:47

Alonso tickling Dr.Marko even a little bit more…

It seems this will be a continuing saga in 2013.


But then, if Alonso had indeed said no to RBR so many times, why does he keep complaining about Newey so much? Im really confused now. :confused:

#409 aditya-now

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:03

But then, if Alonso had indeed said no to RBR so many times, why does he keep complaining about Newey so much? Im really confused now. :confused:


...wouldn't it be feasible to lure Newey to Ferrari? Remember the accolades Alonso showed to Newey not only in Monaco 2012. Now if they would ever fetch Newey, Dr. Marko would surely have some dishing out to do... :lol:

#410 mnmracer

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:36

...wouldn't it be feasible to lure Newey to Ferrari? Remember the accolades Alonso showed to Newey not only in Monaco 2012. Now if they would ever fetch Newey, Dr. Marko would surely have some dishing out to do... :lol:

Considering Newey ditched a team as McLaren for the (then) nobodies of Red Bull, just because of work atmosphere, and considering he has repeatedly said he didn't want to move out of England, I don't see that happening. It would be very interesting, but feasible is not the word I'd use.

#411 BackOnTop

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 13:28

But then, if Alonso had indeed said no to RBR so many times, why does he keep complaining about Newey so much? Im really confused now. :confused:

We shall call it more sour grapes from Alonso!

Anyways, he would have been beaten by Vettel in a Newey car too, just like Hamilton as Vettel would definitely be there with equal No.1 status.

Also, Alonso is not the only privileged driver to have turned down RBR, Marko said in an interview that he had offered Webber's seat to Raikkonen as well in 2010. Kimi didn't take it I guess coz of Ferrari contractual circumstances & Rally options became a hindrance, as seen with his Mclaren talks.

So no great shakes at Alonso's claim, he turned it down because I guess he thought RedBull isn't upto his standards. Vettel has no such issues so far hehehe

Edited by BackOnTop, 21 January 2013 - 13:40.


#412 apoka

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 14:05

Alonso tickling Dr.Marko even a little bit more…

It seems this will be a continuing saga in 2013.

If someone can verify the original source, then I think this warrants a separate thread. Sure, it is part of the mind games of Alonso and Marko, but it interesting beyond that:
Does RB want two top WDC drivers (apparently in contrast to Ferrari)?
Why did they pick and contact Alonso several times?
Why did Alonso turn down the offer?
There were also rumour that Hamilton wants to drive for RB, but they declined - in that light it is interesting that they are interested in Alonso.

Of course, a lot depends on when they made him an offer. Pre-Vettel it was certainly a different thing, but since they contacted him several times according to Alonso, that probably includes more recent contacts.


#413 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 14:55

If someone can verify the original source, then I think this warrants a separate thread. Sure, it is part of the mind games of Alonso and Marko, but it interesting beyond that:
Does RB want two top WDC drivers (apparently in contrast to Ferrari)?
Why did they pick and contact Alonso several times?
Why did Alonso turn down the offer?
There were also rumour that Hamilton wants to drive for RB, but they declined - in that light it is interesting that they are interested in Alonso.

They've had the chance to sign Hamilton and Raikkonen alongisde Vettel, but it sounds like they don't want two WDCs alongside each other.

Of course, a lot depends on when they made him an offer. Pre-Vettel it was certainly a different thing, but since they contacted him several times according to Alonso, that probably includes more recent contacts.

The article is a little misleading, as it's talking about Red Bull offers before Alonso chose Ferrari. The Alonso to Red Bull rumours were around the time he left McLaren (so he would've joined for the 2008 season) and he again turned them down in 2009 when he was announced to join Ferrari. So post-2010 it doesn't sound like Red Bull want him any longer alongside Vettel. Too many roosters n all that.

Now, the feisty 31-year-old Ferrari driver has hinted that Marko is bitter because of how many times he rejected Red Bull’s interest in his highly-rated services.

“After hearing “no” several times, it always hurts a little more each time,” Alonso is quoted by Brazil’s Totalrace.

Sounds like Alonso is hurting more than Marko, imo.

#414 Skinnyguy

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 15:02

Alonso tickling Dr.Marko even a little bit more…

It seems this will be a continuing saga in 2013.


What a shame it didn´t happen. Would have been worth watching. Hope their paths cross sometime, be it in Ferrari or Red Bull.

#415 Sakae

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 15:13

I can't remember that Schumacher ever would exhibit this kind of behaviour. From indeference I am beggining to really dislike whole affair. LdM admitted that defeat in 2012 was painful for them all, which I could try to understand, but right now perception is building up of a one bad looser lacking any class is just poluting the start of a new eason.

#416 MrPodium

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 15:14

They've had the chance to sign Hamilton and Raikkonen alongisde Vettel, but it sounds like they don't want two WDCs alongside each other.


The article is a little misleading, as it's talking about Red Bull offers before Alonso chose Ferrari. The Alonso to Red Bull rumours were around the time he left McLaren (so he would've joined for the 2008 season) and he again turned them down in 2009 when he was announced to join Ferrari. So post-2010 it doesn't sound like Red Bull want him any longer alongside Vettel. Too many roosters n all that.


Sounds like Alonso is hurting more than Marko, imo.


Agreed on the first point. Two WDC's in the same team don't tend to work out together.

Second point. Alonso commented upon the relative strengths of Newey and his ability to design WCC winning cars, which he seems to rate above Vettel's driving skills. That's his opinion and he's entitled to it. The only people who seem to be offended by Alonso's comments are a proportion of Vettel's fanbase who think Vettel is the winning factor and seldomly mentiom the fact that Vettel's success is intrinsically linked to Newey's designs (and RedBull's three consecutive WCC's), preferring to use Webber's underperformance as a benchmark of the RB(x)'s "true pace".

#417 H2H

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 15:42

Now, the feisty 31-year-old Ferrari driver has hinted that Marko is bitter because of how many times he rejected Red Bull’s interest in his highly-rated services.

“After hearing “no” several times, it always hurts a little more each time,” Alonso is quoted by Brazil’s Totalrace.

Sounds like Alonso is hurting more than Marko, imo.


I can not imagine how much pain RBR is suffering for having supposedly failed with their pre-2010 offer after winning 3 double titles in a row. :lol:

Meanwhile Alonso must be full of joy up to his hairtips for supposedly declining the pre-2010 offer after getting beaten, beaten and beaten again by the very team. :kiss:

Priceless logic, political spinning at it's finest. He fully deserves his accolades in this department, Marko was right.

Edited by H2H, 21 January 2013 - 15:48.


#418 boldhakka

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 16:30

Second point. Alonso commented upon the relative strengths of Newey and his ability to design WCC winning cars ...


And yet Alonso says he declined multiple offers to drive said WCC winning Newey cars. It's quite bizarre if you put his statements together - "Newey builds the best cars and I declined to work with him many times! (thumps chest); instead I go to red team and complain about car!".

#419 Zava

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 17:04

...preferring to use Webber's underperformance as a benchmark of the RB(x)'s "true pace".

actually that is NOT true, we don't go on about Webber doing what the car is capable of and Vettel performing unseen miracles, unlike some about Massa and... :rolleyes:
what you CAN find a lot, is Vettel fans saying that if the car was as dominant as some say here, then maybe Webber, a very capable teammate, would assist to more 1-2 finishes. or if the RB8 was really the best car, the same Webber wouldn't have finished only 6th, but higher up.
but that's not exactly the same as "Massa finished in 15th place, which is the true pace of the car, but Alonso dragged it to a 2nd place", or is it? :smoking:

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#420 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 17:14

Second point. Alonso commented upon the relative strengths of Newey and his ability to design WCC winning cars, which he seems to rate above Vettel's driving skills. That's his opinion and he's entitled to it. The only people who seem to be offended by Alonso's comments are a proportion of Vettel's fanbase who think Vettel is the winning factor and seldomly mentiom the fact that Vettel's success is intrinsically linked to Newey's designs (and RedBull's three consecutive WCC's), preferring to use Webber's underperformance as a benchmark of the RB(x)'s "true pace".

Eh? The second point has nothing to do with Vettel fanboys or Newey. Alonso said him turning down Red Bull must hurt Marko. I'm just puzzled why Marko would be 'hurting' if his boy Vettel has won three consecutive titles.

#421 Rinehart

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 17:45

All this needle developing between Alonso and Vettel camps.... its starting to sound like the work of Bernie, wanting a new Senna v Prost rivalry for the 21st century.

#422 SpaMaster

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 18:16

I don't know how much credibility should be given to Alonso's own proclamation that he had the option to sign for Red Bull in 2009. In 2008, coming off the McLaren saga, both BMW and Red Bull were not interested in him. BMW openly said that such personalities that work against the team won't have any place in their team. If Red Bull were not interested in 2008, how desperate could they have been in 2009? Would have been a casual inquiry that Alonso was bigging it up later. Besides if he had known Newey would be such a formidable opposition to the extent saying he was racing against Newey, not Vettel, he should have signed up. Truth is he did not believe Red Bull would be this good. Now that he is getting his back handed over to him by the same team, he is saying he would rather driver for Ferrari without championship than win 3 successive championships in Red Bull. What bogus!

Edited by SpaMaster, 21 January 2013 - 18:34.


#423 gillesthegenius

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 18:29

And yet Alonso says he declined multiple offers to drive said WCC winning Newey cars. It's quite bizarre if you put his statements together - "Newey builds the best cars and I declined to work with him many times! (thumps chest); instead I go to red team and complain about car!".


Denial and confusion go hand in hand, me thinks.

Edited by gillesthegenius, 21 January 2013 - 18:31.


#424 gillesthegenius

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 18:32

Eh? The second point has nothing to do with Vettel fanboys or Newey. Alonso said him turning down Red Bull must hurt Marko. I'm just puzzled why Marko would be 'hurting' if his boy Vettel has won three consecutive titles.


Seriously hillarious, isnt it? I would be loving every moment of this tug-o-war if I were Vettel.

#425 Winter98

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 19:59

Sounds like Alonso is hurting more than Marko, imo.


I can not imagine how much pain RBR is suffering for having supposedly failed with their pre-2010 offer after winning 3 double titles in a row. :lol:

Meanwhile Alonso must be full of joy up to his hairtips for supposedly declining the pre-2010 offer after getting beaten, beaten and beaten again by the very team. :kiss:

Priceless logic, political spinning at it's finest. He fully deserves his accolades in this department, Marko was right.


Spot on!

#426 Winter98

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 20:01

Seriously hillarious, isnt it? I would be loving every moment of this tug-o-war if I were Vettel.


I'm sure he is.

You've just won the championship three years in a row, and the second place finisher is acting like a spoiled five year old trying to demean your accomplishments, making himself look like a complete **** in the process. How could you not chuckle to yourself?

Edited by Winter98, 21 January 2013 - 20:02.


#427 skyfolker

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 21:53

And yet Alonso says he declined multiple offers to drive said WCC winning Newey cars. It's quite bizarre if you put his statements together - "Newey builds the best cars and I declined to work with him many times! (thumps chest); instead I go to red team and complain about car!".

Guess he always wanted to fight Newey. :drunk:

#428 fabr68

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 01:12

Eh? The second point has nothing to do with Vettel fanboys or Newey. Alonso said him turning down Red Bull must hurt Marko. I'm just puzzled why Marko would be 'hurting' if his boy Vettel has won three consecutive titles.


Marko is hurting because he cannot treat Alonso like he is treating Webber now.

#429 bourbon

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 03:32

Alonso misquoted Marko. He didn't say that they ignore all that Alonso says, he said:

"Alonso is constantly involved in politics. I believe we saw the stress he was under towards the end of the season. Saying things like, 'I'm competing against Hamilton, not Vettel,' and 'I'm up against Newey,' these psychological skirmishes. We said, 'Just ignore him.'"

Meaning, that they indeed listen to what Alonso has to say, and when it is politics, mind games, etc., they say "just ignore it".



#430 SpaMaster

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 14:35

^ Exactly. They did ignore what he is trying to do. But that does not they did not notice what he was trying to do. Both are very different, and not like how Alonso questions it.

#431 Winter98

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 16:02

Now, the feisty 31-year-old Ferrari driver has hinted that Marko is bitter because of how many times he rejected Red Bull’s interest in his highly-rated services.

“After hearing “no” several times, it always hurts a little more each time,” Alonso is quoted by Brazil’s Totalrace. (GMM)

(from here)

LOL, yeah, that must really suck having just won 3 WCC and WDCs on the trot. I'm sure Marko regrets not having Alonso, and the destructive internal politicing he brings, every night.

Edited by Winter98, 22 January 2013 - 16:22.


#432 SpaMaster

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 17:05

Yeah, it must be quite bitter looking at the 3 WDCs and 3 WCCs, not for Marko but for Alonso. This is called totally losing the plot in an attempt to insult others.

#433 kosmos

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 17:18

Yeah, it must be quite bitter looking at the 3 WDCs and 3 WCCs, not for Marko but for Alonso. This is called totally losing the plot in an attempt to insult others.



And that it has anything to do with the Alonso comment about Marko wanting him, the comment was becasue Marko called "political" to Alonso, and Alonso replied that he wanted to hire the "political" Alonso many times, so being political was never a problem for Marko, I can't see any bitterness in that reply from Alonso, and 99% of the people would have rejected the RB offer back in those days, but it's nice to act cool now when the team has become a champion team.



And this looks like BS:

“After hearing “no” several times, it always hurts a little more each time,” Alonso is quoted by Brazil’s Totalrace. (GMM)
(from here)


I readed almost every english/Spanish/Italian interviews he has done in the last weeks and he never said something like that, " it always hurts a little more each time" looks to me like a journo wanting to spice up the article.

#434 Fontainebleau

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 19:20

LOL, yeah, that must really suck having just won 3 WCC and WDCs on the trot. I'm sure Marko regrets not having Alonso, and the destructive internal politicing he brings, every night.

RBR has its own internal politic, which I doubt is better than what Alonso could bring with him. Have you forgotten this wonderful little exchange between Marko and Alguersuari? Do you need any further hints at how things work in RBR/Toro Rosso?



"You have orders in this way" "this is not acceptable" - isn't that what Marko says? And all because of an incident during the free practice?

Edited by Fontainebleau, 22 January 2013 - 19:21.


#435 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 19:55

We really should be sticking to the topic about Marko's interview, but let's get a few things straight here first:

1. It's generally accepted Massa underperformed in the first few races, he's since said so himself. This overemphasized Alonso's driving feats in the first few races. Without a reliable benchmark, we don't know how bad the car truly was.
2. Pat Fry has said after Barcelona the car wasn't that bad. Not amazing, but not bad.
3. No one said Newey was an engineering genius when his cars were blowing up for Raikkonen and Rory Byrne was running the show. Not to mention that after 1999, the only championship McLaren won was in 2008, AFTER Newey left.
4. Why does everyone act like Alonso doesn't have a well-paid team, with stable finances, designing his cars and giving it their all? Pat Fry is a competent engineer, and if Alonso's in a team that can't deliver car-wise, he should sort that out and move, not criticise other drivers who have chosen their teams well.
5. Over the course of the season the Ferrari wasn't anywhere near as bad as Alonso makes out, Pat Fry said so himself. RBR had a lot of problems early on and McLaren were dominating the show (see: three wins in a row).

and finally

6. No one in 2005 and 2006 came out saying Briatore's team was amazing and Alonso was only winning because of Renault - ESPECIALLY not Schumacher, who was driving for Ferrari at the time. If Alonso can't win championships with Ferrari he needs to sort this out, not criticise the competition for building a better car than his team. I don't remember Raikkonen complaining he was fighting against Paddy Lowe this year.


1. There can be absolutely no doubt that the car was really bad until Barcelona. If you needed it, Pat Fry confirmed as much - but everyone knew that even before. You might want to remember that rival fans liked to make fun of "Clifford the dog" and wanted the sacking of Fry, Domenicali and LdM, leading to this thread full of troll attempts.
2. But it was bad until Barcelona, and after that ... well, it was not bad, but their rivals had amazing cars. I know that in the attempt of diminishing Alonso, certain posters (demised ones like cilurnum as well as "new" ones like you) keep trying to erect this particular straw man: they insist that there are significant amounts of pro-Alonso posters who claim that the car was the 6th fastest (or something like that) even after Barcelona, in order to be able to argue against that notion, and in the process to try and undervalue Alonso's contribution without looking too stupid. The fallacy here is that if you discount the rabid imbeciles which exist on any side, nobody is claiming this or has been claiming this since Barcelona. In fact the only people I recollect ever to have argued that Ferrari was the 4th to 7th fastest team were a few of the anti-Ferrari/Alonso posters who relished in making fun of the Scuderia.
3. I don't know where you hung out, but everyone always agreed that he was an engineering genius, how sometimes built fragile cars in the pursuit of performance. How could you fail to see his genius after the success he already had had by this time? And wasn't it mostly the Merc engine that kept blowing up?
4. Another straw man. "Everyone" does act like Alonso has a well-paid team, with stable finances, designing his cars and giving it their all. It would be foolish to say otherwise. On the other hand when I argued that "Fry is a competent engineer" up until Barcelona, I was often the sole voice in the wind, and more often than not was laughed at not so much by Ferrari fans, but, again, by the anti-Ferrari/Alonso brigade having their fun. For what that's worth, it at least shows once more that the car was considered really bad for a while. As for what Alonso needs to do or not, I leave that up to him, and IMHO he can criticize whoever he wants (he, and any other driver. Vettel certainly has "criticized" other drivers, and that's fine with me), and people will form their opinions anyway. But I'm not sure what this has to do anything, because in the context we are talking about he never "criticized" Vettel, did he. And finally, as for "chosen their teams well", it's a bit unfair to compare Alonso and Vettel simply because of their different tenure. Vettel is approximately at the same stage of his career as Alonso was after his 2nd Renault WDC, and I bet Alonso was happy then and it could be said he had chosen his teams well. And Vettel hasn't chosen much so far, at all. We'll see where Vettel is in 5 years' time.
5. As I said in (2), it's mostly you who incorrectly claims that there are people who say the car was still super bad after Barcelona. All Alonso, correctly, said it that it was not fast enough. As far as the races before Barcelona are concerned, it's laughable that you single out RBR as having a lot of problems, because whatever you think about the Ferrari after Barcelona, disputing that they had big, big problems in the first races just makes you look like an idiot. So let's say both had problems, ok? And since what Fry said in the recent interview carries so much weight for you, please do note that he said that Alonso carried the car through that time.
6. There is no point in even answering this, it's just your fantasies of what you imagine someone said mixed with your fantasies of what someone should say or not.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 22 January 2013 - 19:56.


#436 Winter98

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 20:21

"You have orders in this way" "this is not acceptable" - isn't that what Marko says? And all because of an incident during the free practice?


You rate that equivalent to spygate?

Or what happened between Hamilton and Alonso at McLaren?

I think even you would agree that they aren't even remotely equivalent.

#437 Fontainebleau

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 22:58

You rate that equivalent to spygate?

Or what happened between Hamilton and Alonso at McLaren?

I think even you would agree that they aren't even remotely equivalent.

Just a reminder of the sentence you wrote and I am disagreeing with : "I'm sure Marko regrets not having Alonso, and the destructive internal politicing he brings, every night."

Alonso did not bring Spygate into McLaren. McLaren was receiving information from Stepney before Alonso joined, as per De la Rosa's explanation to Alonso fo who Stepney was and his relationship with Coughlan. Also, Raikkonen provided the FIA with a letter (specifically mentioning radio transmissions) which was used as proof that McLaren spying on Ferrari was a long-standing affair. In fact, all teams spy on each other - in Spygate it was the 780-pages dossier that was a step beyond what other teams did. The infamous dossier was never in Alonso's hands. You may say that Alonso knew Ferrari information was being used at McLaren, you may even say that he used some tidbits of that information himself (as per the two emails exchanges with De la Rosa). But to say that Alonso brought Spygate into McLaren is totally incorrect.

I am not totally sure of what you refer to when you mention "what happened between Alonso and Hamilton", but let me remind you that things have not been that peaceful at Red Bull either: Webber was quite vocal about his feelings when the team took his front wing away to give it to Vettel, Vettel was very gaphic when expressing his feelings after crashing with Webber in Turkey. You have been provided evidence of how team orders, favouritism and a number one policy are in place at RBR, and most people would say that those three elements were the same ones that triggered all the inter-drivers conflict at McLaren. The difference was how all the people involved dealt with it, and how much the press interfered (as per Dennis's words) - and I think that even you would agree that all that cannot be laid solely at Alonso's feet.

Edited by Fontainebleau, 22 January 2013 - 23:14.


#438 pinkypants

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 23:14

I'm not totally convinced on why Alonso would turn Red Bull down? :/

Both sides should really get a grip, but then again - it's giving Red Bull plenty of free publicity and keeping them in the news.. hmm.

#439 Kingshark

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 23:18

No one should be defending Mclaren for spygate.

Alonso, regardless of whether he looked like a snitch, did the right thing.

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#440 Fontainebleau

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 23:18

I'm not totally convinced on why Alonso would turn Red Bull down? :/

Both sides should really get a grip, but then again - it's giving Red Bull plenty of free publicity and keeping them in the news.. hmm.

I seem to remember at the time that he was quite convinced that Renault could deliver a good car. Also, in 2008 RB's potential was not obvious; the same happened with Brawn in 2009.

As for your second sentence, I agree that one should not underestimate the value of publicity. I wouldn't be surprised if both teams were not unhappy about the exchange of words...  ;)

#441 Tsarwash

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:22

Can somebody please lump this bloke soon. Please fix it for him to get blasted to the moon. He really is threatening to become the biggest peni in F1 today, and that is quite an achievement.

#442 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:39

Yawn. All full of your opinion and what you claim people said at the time.


I suspect you were around under a different name at the beginning of the season. If I'm wrong and you weren't, maybe it's time to educate yourself about what people said at the time, because after all you are basing your argument on what people supposedly claim. I gave you one link, it's not hard to look up the F2012 part 1 thread.

Looking at your friends and what you post, it's evident you're a dedicated Alonso fan forever, no matter what he does.


So I tried what the friend feature does (nothing much it appears), yeah that tells you everything you need to know about me, certainly more than reading what I write or my avatar, which clearly seems to show that I am an Alonso fan forever :rolleyes:

I can't be bothered to argue against someone so silly.


That's a relief.

#443 bourbon

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 03:58

No one should be defending Mclaren for spygate.

Alonso, regardless of whether he looked like a snitch, did the right thing.


He didn't look like a snitch. However, his behavior fell within the realm of politicking - and that was Marko's point.

Edited by bourbon, 23 January 2013 - 04:53.


#444 D.M.N.

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 13:27

Back on topic please to the purpose of the thread. Here is the OP again:

While Dr. Marko is at it, he gave another full-mouthed serving in the new Red Bulletin:

Marko extolling Vettel to the skies and slamming Stewart, Alonso and Webber


If you want to talk about how bad the Ferrari F2012 was or whatever else that is considered off-topic here, please create a new thread for that discussion. Thanks.

#445 fabr68

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 14:01

Back on topic please to the purpose of the thread. Here is the OP again:



If you want to talk about how bad the Ferrari F2012 was or whatever else that is considered off-topic here, please create a new thread for that discussion. Thanks.


Marko is just stating he is game for the politics. Calling Alonso political by playing politics himself. Marko will not be racing mano a mano with Alonso so his judgement of Alonso driving skills have no effect. He is correct on saying that Alonso will likely be their main rival this year but dismissing Hamilton will likely bite him in the rear.

#446 aditya-now

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 14:19

Marko is just stating he is game for the politics. Calling Alonso political by playing politics himself. Marko will not be racing mano a mano with Alonso so his judgement of Alonso driving skills have no effect. He is correct on saying that Alonso will likely be their main rival this year but dismissing Hamilton will likely bite him in the rear.


Very fitting analysis. It is a little bit like someone saying to someone else:"You, Sir, YOU have a very big ego!!"

:D

#447 Winter98

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 20:25

"Everyone" does act like Alonso has a well-paid team, with stable finances, designing his cars and giving it their all. It would be foolish to say otherwise.


I agree with Marko that Alonso spent too much time being political, and not enough time "giving it his all" in regards to driving.

In my books the fact that Massa was quicker than Alonso down the stretch tells me Alonso is mentally fragile to some degree. The politicing confirms it.

Edited by Winter98, 23 January 2013 - 20:26.


#448 fabr68

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 20:51

I agree with Marko that Alonso spent too much time being political, and not enough time "giving it his all" in regards to driving.

In my books the fact that Massa was quicker than Alonso down the stretch tells me Alonso is mentally fragile to some degree. The politicing confirms it.


The team principals disagree with you and Marko with regards to Alonso as the driver for 2012

#449 Winter98

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 21:26

The team principals disagree with you and Marko with regards to Alonso as the driver for 2012


The team principals can say what they want. The fact is Massa was quicker than Alonso down the stretch, when the pressure was on. This is when champions step forward and win. Also-rans can't handle the pressure as well and fail.

In my opinion Alonso's failure in stretch runs demonstrates his mental fragility, and his need to politic confirms it. This is why I agree with Marko.

Edited by Winter98, 23 January 2013 - 21:29.


#450 Fontainebleau

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 22:55

The team principals can say what they want. The fact is Massa was quicker than Alonso down the stretch, when the pressure was on. This is when champions step forward and win. Also-rans can't handle the pressure as well and fail.

In my opinion Alonso's failure in stretch runs demonstrates his mental fragility, and his need to politic confirms it. This is why I agree with Marko.

Yeah, what do those team principals know! :rolleyes: