124 replies to this topic

[jrg19]

http://www.crash.net...n_doubters.html

Lopez has made no secret of his desire to usurp one of the current 'big three' teams in 2013 and, having pushed Raikkonen ahead of both McLaren drivers in the individual standings, hopes that a bigger contribution from Grosjean can help propel the team into the leading trio this time around.

Considering the car could be even better next season, does Kimi have a real shot at the title?

[Ross Stonefeld]

If the car is competitive, sure. But you could say the same about Glock if the Marussia was fast enough.

[Seanspeed]

He could. A lot of drivers could.

Dont think its likely, though.

[beqa16v]

Slightly quicker car and better pit stops/strategy are required for that. But still I think it will be difficult for him to realistically fight without clear #1 status which I dont think Bulier is going to give him.

[Reinmuster]

If the car developed as much as those Red Bull and Mclaren towards the end of season, I believe he can.

[Jovanotti]

Considering the car could be even better next season, does Kimi have a real shot at the title?

That's the only unknown in the equation. If the Lotus is just a bit better overall, he'll be there, no question. His consistency has been unmatched this season, quali speed and working with the team/team operations will only get better.

If the car is competitive, sure. But you could say the same about Glock if the Marussia was fast enough.

He could. A lot of drivers could.

Don't agree many drivers can. Webber, who's no slouch, doesn't even manage to be in contention in an RB.

Edited by Jovanotti, 08 January 2013 - 16:58.

[Watkins74]

Can he? Yes

Will he? No

[Buttoneer]

Shall I copy-paste the replies to the Hamilton version of this thread? They're in roughly the same position overall. In 2012 both Lotus and Merc were a step behind the three front runners and, save for the very clear differences in reliability between these teams, were only going to get wins on the days where everyone else dropped the ball. An oversimplification perhaps but until we see the cars testing (and usually not even then) we won't have any idea of the pecking order.

The driver focus of these threads fills me with dismay, really. I would agree that it seems like Raikkonen is the best chance Lotus has, and Hamilton the best chance Mercedes has, but a WDC needs so much more than a good driver or a good car. It needs the whole team to be focussed and performing efficiently in every area or at least to exceed the focus and efficiency of the nearest competitior. The driver applies the car to the tarmac, but up to a 1000 people behind the scenes get the car there and ready to go.

[bub]

He's obviously not the favourite but I wouldn't count him or Lotus out, so yes he can.

[garoidb]

Can he? Yes

Will he? No

This. I did not vote because the title of thread asks the first question, then the poll just asks Kimi 2013 WDC?. Different question.

[Jovanotti]

Shall I copy-paste the replies to the Hamilton version of this thread?

(...)

The driver focus of these threads fills me with dismay, really.

Perhaps also the Räikkönen fans here need a place to stay after the old thread is gone.
(Sniff)

[KavB]

Lotus can build a good car and Kimi can do the job if it is good enough. The only issue I see is that Lotus may build a super fast car, but can they keep up development with McLaren, Ferrari and Red Bull? I don't think so. They simply just don't have the resources.

If they build a super fast car out of the box, then maybe they can put up a good fight. I certainly hope he is in the mix this season. He needs to up his qualifying though.

[2ms]

Of course not. When's the last time a WDC was won in a car that wasn't at least tied for the best? There aren't going to be any loopholes like Double Deck Diffuser next season. It's going to be the usual aero supercomputing race between the 3 richest teams. One team will screw something up like McL did 2012, and another will average out to having a little bit better car than the other (eg RB 2012). The other team will get 2nd in WDC.

The maximum for anyone in a Lotus will again be 3rd. In all likelihood Raikkonen will get 5th because the screw-up team will probably screw up less than McL did last season.

Thus why Raikkonen only signed into Lotus for 2 year -- he wants to win another WDC after.

[Kingshark]

Can Kimi win the championship with Lotus?

Can Lewis win the championship with Mercedes?

Can Pic win the championship with Caterham?

[BigCHrome]

Very unlikely.

[Henri Greuter]

Can Kimi win the championship with Lotus?

Can Lewis win the championship with Mercedes?

Can Pic win the championship with Caterham?

Shall we create a poll: "For which driver shall be the next "Can xxxx become world champion in 2013 with yyyy " thread be posted?

Henri

[CrashPad]

Well, Kimi winning the WDC in 2013 seems far more likely than, oh I don't know, let's say Kimi finishing in Top 3 in 2012 seemed a year ago ;)

[olliek88]

Yes.

















Get it?

[jjcale]

If the car is competitive, sure. But you could say the same about Glock if the Marussia was fast enough.

This

- why cant people wait to see what the cars are like before trying to make predictions?

[jjcale]

Shall I copy-paste the replies to the Hamilton version of this thread? They're in roughly the same position overall. In 2012 both Lotus and Merc were a step behind the three front runners and, save for the very clear differences in reliability between these teams, were only going to get wins on the days where everyone else dropped the ball. An oversimplification perhaps but until we see the cars testing (and usually not even then) we won't have any idea of the pecking order.

The driver focus of these threads fills me with dismay, really. I would agree that it seems like Raikkonen is the best chance Lotus has, and Hamilton the best chance Mercedes has, but a WDC needs so much more than a good driver or a good car. It needs the whole team to be focussed and performing efficiently in every area or at least to exceed the focus and efficiency of the nearest competitior. The driver applies the car to the tarmac, but up to a 1000 people behind the scenes get the car there and ready to go.

+ 1

[Topsu]

Anyone could win it. And Kimi has a better chance than many.

[Rikhart]

As a driver, I think few that are sane can doubt it. Will he have the car/team for it? Let´s wait and see. Hope so!

Edited by Rikhart, 08 January 2013 - 22:50.

[senna da silva]

Can he? Yes

Will he? No

This.

[Kvothe]

Theoretically any driver has a shot at the world championship, so yes he can.

I still however remain unconvinced by his performances throughout last year and think he was flattered by the Lotus which during the first part of the season was a very competitive car, demonstrated by how well Grosjean qualified and how far up Kimi finished, however I'm willing to to accept the fact that it was his first year back. If he can up his qualifying pace, and Lotus build a competitive car, than he stands a good a chance as any, but his inability or unwillingness to drive around set-up issues still remains his achilles heel.

[gm914]

Kimi gets a 'Helmet' thread, then Hamilton gets a 'Helmet' thread.

Hamilton gets a 'Will He In 2013?' thread, then Kimi gets a 'Will He In 2013?' thread

Are the fanboys having withdrawals from the Driver Thread ban?

[Seanspeed]

Don't agree many drivers can. Webber, who's no slouch, doesn't even manage to be in contention in an RB.

Webber nearly won in 2010.

Also, Kimi would probably find it much more difficult with Vettel as a teammate as well.

Edited by Seanspeed, 08 January 2013 - 21:02.

[apoka]

Yes to the thread title. Voted no the the question (I believe there is a <50% chance for him to become 2013 WDC).

[rijole1]

Yes, he can.

[Mauseri]

http://www.crash.net...n_doubters.html

Considering the car could be even better next season, does Kimi have a real shot at the title?

Most propably the car will not be more competitive in relation, but it could still be possible to take 3rd in WCC if Grosjean starts finishing, now that Hamilton is out of McLaren.

Edited by Mauseri, 08 January 2013 - 22:00.

[Sin]

2014.... I would say he might be able to

2013... I don't think so

but if he wins it I would be happy for him too

Edited by Sin, 08 January 2013 - 22:32.

[DaddyCool]

Also, Kimi would probably find it much more difficult with Vettel as a teammate as well.

Yeah, because we've seen that teammates have a huge effect on his performance. Also, it's not like he has ever seriously competed with the likes of Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton, JPM, etc. before Vettel.

[the9th]

He's never lost a WDC. It's always Newey, Mercedes and Whatnot that lose him the WDC. We must therefore infer that he cannot lose the 2013 WDC. He can only win it. DC could never in a million years be WDC. Everyone knows that. Except DC. Even though he had Newey. Kimi can always be WDC, despite Newey. He's doing fine. He's still on target. As long as there are WC's.

Unfortunately I think Lotus can only go south from where it stands. Let's hope I'm wrong. Coca-Cola!! \m/

[turssi]

I don't think so.

He will battle against Lewis for the 3rd, while Fernando and Sebastian check once more who takes the trophy home.

McLaren will be the black horse with two pilots going for the unexpected.

[neutronstar]

He's obviously good enough, so yes he can. Will he though? Probably not.

I think the only way he could win the championship is if Lotus do 'a Renault' by making a car that is very quick and very reliable. Then bag some wins in the beginning of the season, and hope that everyone else runs into trouble so that they can keep that lead once they'll eventually get overtaken in the development race by the big boys.

[aditya-now]

YES, he CAN!

Decidedly yes.

If he will is another question.

[ViMaMo]

I don't know what you re talking about, in terms of ability no doubt Kimi has it, he has not lost any form. So all you got to do is post this thread just a day before the winter tests. Good luck to Kimi and Lotus !

[zepunishment]

lotus seemed to fall away sharply in the development race last year and there were funding rumours flying around. He may do well, but I can't see him being a true contender for the WDC. (this coming from a fan of kimi).

[boldhakka]

No. Not with the budget and resources available to Lotus. They're a great team and do maximize their resources, but they will never get all their ducks lined up in a row to sustain a WDC or WCC challenge through a season. They would if they had much more money comparable to the top three teams, but they don't.

[halifaxf1fan]

He's got the speed and he's got the form. All he needs is the car.

[Kyo]

No. Not with the budget and resources available to Lotus. They're a great team and do maximize their resources, but they will never get all their ducks lined up in a row to sustain a WDC or WCC challenge through a season. They would if they had much more money comparable to the top three teams, but they don't.

If they are a great team and know how to maximize their resources it means they need less money than the top teams to do just as good, not more. And this season they probably have a bigger budget with all the new sponsors and the better points and position in the standings last year.

The op question...
Kimi already proved he can be champion, just like Seb, Alonso, Lewis and Button. They all only need a good enough car, some more than others.

[Seanspeed]

Yeah, because we've seen that teammates have a huge effect on his performance. Also, it's not like he has ever seriously competed with the likes of Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton, JPM, etc. before Vettel.

Its not that teammates have an effect on his performance, because thats one of Kimi's strengths, its that guys like Vettel and Alonso are much tougher competition than I think Kimi has ever had to deal with when in the same machinery.

[boldhakka]

If they are a great team and know how to maximize their resources it means they need less money than the top teams to do just as good, not more. And this season they probably have a bigger budget with all the new sponsors and the better points and position in the standings last year.

Hardly. Lotus being great and able to maximize their resources does not exclude other teams from doing the same. Lotus is better than Williams and possibly Sauber and Merc in this department, but that only gets them so far.

Even after the new sponsors and extra price money, Lotus will have significantly less than RBR, McLaren, and Ferrari, and possibly even Mercedes.

Lotus owed ~ $30 Million in debt in 2011 - they aren't going to be splashing cash on a championship push to out-develop those other teams who have more freedom with their earnings.

For the last couple of years Lotus are close to where their budget says they should be - In fact they underperformed in 2011 and slightly over performed in 2012, relative to their budget.

[dowanhillpark]

Of course he CAN claim the title in 2013 but regrettably, I do not see it happening. The team will probably screw up in qualifying (timing, tyres, setup) enough times to see Kimi startimg from the lower half of the grid too often. Thanks to his brilliance he will fight his way into the points every time but it will be an uphill struggle. I would love to be proved wrong on this! Go Kimi!!

[DrF]

Not in 2013, Vettel + Newey combo is too awesome.

Maybe in 2014, when he replaces Webbo at RBR.

[Spillage]

Enstone seems to me to be on the upturn just like they were in the early nineties and just like they were in 2003-2004. With that in mind I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them build a title-winning car in 2013, and Raikkonen to deliver the title.

[George Costanza]

No. Not with the budget and resources available to Lotus. They're a great team and do maximize their resources, but they will never get all their ducks lined up in a row to sustain a WDC or WCC challenge through a season. They would if they had much more money comparable to the top three teams, but they don't.

Tell that in 1994, 1995, 2005 and 2006.

Enstone is streaky, once they have a good car they are very hard to beat.

Like Schu '95 and Alonso 05.

Edited by George Costanza, 12 January 2013 - 16:52.

[2ms]

When was the last time a low budget team won a WDC? Ever?

[SunnyENTP]

Not in 2013, Vettel + Newey combo is too awesome.

Maybe in 2014, when he replaces Webbo at RBR.

You mean 'IF' and he would only be another Webber. Vettel would destroy him in Quali and race pace. If Kimi could not handle Massa in Ferrari how is he going to handle Vettel in RB? Back on topic he has no chance in 2013. He might if Lotus pull something out in 2014 but even thats unlikely

[Rikhart]

You mean 'IF' and he would only be another Webber. Vettel would destroy him in Quali and race pace. If Kimi could not handle Massa in Ferrari how is he going to handle Vettel in RB? Back on topic he has no chance in 2013. He might if Lotus pull something out in 2014 but even thats unlikely

Alonso couldnt handle massa on several races last season, are you saying he would be "destroyed" by vettel too? And if he had a chance this past year, when he came into a new team, after two years in retirement, what makes you think he has no chance in 2013 when everything shows he could be even better?

Edited by Rikhart, 12 January 2013 - 18:53.

[BRG]

When was the last time a low budget team won a WDC? Ever?

I am tempted to say Brawn in 2009 but there are many who claim there was a massive hidden Honda funding. But before that, probably Tyrrell in 1971 & 3. Car built in a woodyard.