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V8 Supercars - 2013 Season


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#451 Yhamm

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 01:08

Yay, another true Sports Sedan, a front drive 6 cylinder car racing as a rear drive V8. That I am sure will sell a lot of Volvos,, Not. Maybe it is a plot by a Nissan Dealer to sell more Nissans [Garry is a Datsun dealer]
That coupled with an inexperienced but good rookie and a seemingly waste of time Frenchman who already knows how to race at the back. That will further set back the development.
A field of totally irrelevant cars. That seem not to be able to stop crashing.

Please, do us a service and stop watching V8

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#452 Wuzak

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 01:46

Yay, another true Sports Sedan, a front drive 6 cylinder car racing as a rear drive V8.


So, how many rear drive V8 Fusions do Ford sell in the US each year?
Perhaps Toyota have a rear drive V8 Camry for the US market?

Yet, they have no problem running Fusions and Camrys in NASCAR.

I'm sure in previous years Chevrolet built a rear drive V8 version of their Impala to take advantage of their NASCAR success?

#453 Zippel

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 01:50

That coupled with an inexperienced but good rookie and a seemingly waste of time Frenchman who already knows how to race at the back. That will further set back the development.


You assume Gary Rogers will keep both of them with his track record? This is the guy who sacked Jamie Whincup once upon a time.

#454 HaydenFan

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 02:07

You assume Gary Rogers will keep both of them with his track record? This is the guy who sacked Jamie Whincup once upon a time.


Good point. But outside of funding, how much will Volvo be involved? Will they want one of their touring car drivers to do an driver? They do have a Swedish prince under their wing running STCC.

#455 Sardukar

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 02:50

Well Volvo are apparently putting in more cash than any other manufacturer including Holden so its gunna be interesting.

#456 Brother Fox

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:03

Will this push Mercedes into a more factory entry? Volvo are a direct competitor on the road so the company would not want to see Merc badged vehicles being trounced by Volvos.



#457 Myrvold

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:32

Good point. But outside of funding, how much will Volvo be involved? Will they want one of their touring car drivers to do an driver? They do have a Swedish prince under their wing running STCC.


Robert Dahlgren has always been the guy they've used for these kind of experiments before (last was WTCC). However, Thed Björk has done some Camaro Racing in Sweden, with success, he have also done some racing in Croatia with last gen. DTM cars. Together with a couple of DTM races some F3000 races and Le Mans. Fredrik Ekblom have done some Indy Lights, and three Indy Car races (one Indy 500), Le Mans and WTCC, Linus Ohlsson is the young gun, with good results in Porsches in Sweden, and 2nd last year in STCC. The prince is more of a PR-gimmick, he was actually a bit impressing after some years in Porsches, but haven't done anything amazing in STCC. And I think it is easier for him to use royal power to race in Sweden :)

#458 Woody3says

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 09:08

Yay, another true Sports Sedan, a front drive 6 cylinder car racing as a rear drive V8. That I am sure will sell a lot of Volvos,, Not. Maybe it is a plot by a Nissan Dealer to sell more Nissans [Garry is a Datsun dealer]
That coupled with an inexperienced but good rookie and a seemingly waste of time Frenchman who already knows how to race at the back. That will further set back the development.
A field of totally irrelevant cars. That seem not to be able to stop crashing.

And I thought I was pessemistic towards IndyCars!

I hope that it gets better for you, I really do :wave:

#459 Alfisti

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 13:22

Skaife making some very quiet noise that they need to look at Turbo 6's to maintain some sense of road going relevance.

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#460 JHSingo

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:52

Skaife making some very quiet noise that they need to look at Turbo 6's to maintain some sense of road going relevance.


What would they do about the name of the series then? Turbo V6 Supercars doesn't really have the same ring to it as V8 Supercars.  ;)

V8 engines are as much as a part of the series as they are in NASCAR that it is hard to imagine them ever changing.



#461 Jazza

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 13:00

What would they do about the name of the series then? Turbo V6 Supercars doesn't really have the same ring to it as V8 Supercars. ;)

V8 engines are as much as a part of the series as they are in NASCAR that it is hard to imagine them ever changing.


It would cause a bit of an issue, but it would be no different than the change from Group A. They will just create a new series and all the old records will still stand.

#462 Alfisti

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 13:31

ATCC always worked for me but if they want to continue to push global then call it Supercars, I dunno. If they do go that route they need to make sure they still sound evil and go like stink, as in a little harder than they go now.

#463 Eff One 2002

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 21:54

The series would lose a lot of fans if the V8 formula was ever dropped and that's a fact. I don't think AVESCO would ever take that risk.



#464 Brother Fox

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 22:56

How do you back up that 'fact' though? What would they watch instead?


Lets be honest, the name is terrible, childish even. Any excuse to change it would be good enough.

#465 Alfisti

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 02:21

The series would lose a lot of fans if the V8 formula was ever dropped and that's a fact. I don't think AVESCO would ever take that risk.


I dunno, I reakon they saw the Sierra as a pommie car and nissan was japanese ofcourse. The key to the series is Holden, lose them and it's done, i reakon a holden 3 litre 6 goes over alright.

#466 FPV GTHO

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:09

I could see GM trying to block a V6 move with all they have. Their V6's are rubbish compared the competition and surely such a move would require production based engines.

I don't see it happening soon though, there still seems to be support from other categories for V8 based machinery.

#467 Wuzak

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:18

I don't see it happening soon though, there still seems to be support from other categories for V8 based machinery.


DTM is going to turbo 4s (the world racing engine, I believe) in a couple of years.

What other V8 series will that leave?


#468 JHSingo

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 12:42

The series would lose a lot of fans if the V8 formula was ever dropped and that's a fact. I don't think AVESCO would ever take that risk.


Does this come from the same people who say they would stop watching if Holden/Ford ever disappeared and are against new manufacturers entering?

It seems some dyed in the wool fans don't like change.

DTM is going to turbo 4s (the world racing engine, I believe) in a couple of years.

What other V8 series will that leave?


I find it sad to see V8s being abandoned. I dislike how race engines get increasingly smaller and smaller.

At this rate, by about 2025, everywhere will be using 1.6 turbo diesels... :yawnface:

#469 Alfisti

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:15

I really don't care of the engine configuration but I maintain it needs to be a spectacle, as in a little more than enough power and it's gotta sound nasty. So on existing bodies we need about 700HP and maybe keep the boost low so it can still rev reasonably hard.

#470 FPV GTHO

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:16

DTM is going to turbo 4s (the world racing engine, I believe) in a couple of years.

What other V8 series will that leave?

AFAIK GP2 and WSbR are still V8 based. There's still some GT category cars racing V8's especially in America.

I'd imagine when DTM changes so too will SuperGT which may also affect some of the Euro/Japanese manufacturers in GT/LMP.

#471 Eff One 2002

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:42

How do you back up that 'fact' though? What would they watch instead?


Lets be honest, the name is terrible, childish even. Any excuse to change it would be good enough.


Think about it: The series has strictly been a V8 formula since 1995 and the fans have grown accustomed to that and identify with the series as such. Add to that it's based in a country with a massive V8 car culture. The series would inevitably suffer and suffer badly if AVESCO moved away from that as fans would lose interest. What else would they watch? I have no idea probably nothing.

As for the name, I wasn't a fan back when it was first introduced and like the name "Shell Australian Touring Car Championship" better but have been used to it for a long time now and think it's an affective label.

Edited by Eff One 2002, 22 June 2013 - 04:32.


#472 nicholasc

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 06:40

Think about it: The series has strictly been a V8 formula since 1995 and the fans have grown accustomed to that and identify with the series as such. Add to that it's based in a country with a massive V8 car culture. The series would inevitably suffer and suffer badly if AVESCO moved away from that as fans would lose interest. What else would they watch? I have no idea probably nothing.

As for the name, I wasn't a fan back when it was first introduced and like the name "Shell Australian Touring Car Championship" better but have been used to it for a long time now and think it's an affective label.

A country that used to have a V8 car culture is probably a little more accurate.

#473 Wuzak

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 08:05

If we want to reflect Aussie car culture they should race Toorak tractors.

Edited by Wuzak, 22 June 2013 - 08:05.


#474 Brother Fox

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:21

And have one person riding a pushbike shouting "I have the right to be here!"


#475 KOMORI

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:31

...... not to mention the entire grid getting impounded after the first round, then crushed after the second...

#476 teejay

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:56

My Cruze is just like a V8 Commodore!

Just kidding, would never own a Cruze.

#477 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 09:41

V8 Supercars are becoming irrelevant as cars that don't use V8s are coming in. Ovlov and ofcourse Nissan are racing a V8 car that has yet to be produced.
And all the crybaby stuff starts again as the 'newcomers' cannot compete with what should be superior base engines. Reading Speedcafe Todd Kelley in particular is crying because they do not have enough power or more importantly fuel economy for Bathurst and Sandown. The Benz is no better though reputedly at least AMG are trying to overcome the defecits.
If they cannot play the game, don't play. Don't expect everyone else to have to do a whole pile of redevelopment because you are off the pace.
Supposedly the Datsuns are 8% worse on economy. And they have a quad cam 4 valve that should be better! Work harder. Really they should never have expected to be winners in the first year.
If the rules are changed to allow it the other players may leave!

A BMW spokesman summed it up recently, They looked at it but do not wish to spend the money. They do not have an engine [and do have V8s] to play and really don't want to race against [and worse get beaten] by bogan Holdens. Pointing out that MB must be really enthused about running at the back every meeting. MB Australia never wanted to play. The engines and support came from Germany and the rest is a private deal by a Mercedes Benz lover.

As for V8s as road cars I do see a LOT of V8 Commys and Fords on the roads. I don't see many V8 Benzs [there is a few] and no V8 Nissans or Volvos. Yet alone Toyotas unless you include Landcruisers!

And the above comment about Nascar being based on front drive cars is irrelevant. This is road racing in Australia not oval racing in the States.
Where the cars have no relevance at all to a road car. But should!

Also this thread was about the total negative environ of Supercar. I started it! What was a decent category has been dumbed down with cars that are not cars. And the moderators hijacked it as a pro Supercar thread. Which was very poor. Especially when you look at all the negative comment about F1. Most totally justified.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 01 August 2013 - 09:44.


#478 teejay

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 09:52

If you dont see V8 Merc's you are not looking hard enough.

#479 JHSingo

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:01

Also this thread was about the total negative environ of Supercar. I started it! What was a decent category has been dumbed down with cars that are not cars. And the moderators hijacked it as a pro Supercar thread. Which was very poor. Especially when you look at all the negative comment about F1. Most totally justified.


I think you need to be thankful for what you have.

Right now, internationally, V8 Supercars is regarded as probably the strongest touring car championship in the world. BTCC is a mess, WTCC has been struggling for years, and DTM...well, they need DRS to overtake and have races with no winners, so that tells you all you need to know. Anything else is too irrelevant to be even worth mentioning.

Plus V8 Supercars has the greatest manufacturer interest of any of the above, and easily has the most spectacular cars.

You may not be happy with the championship, but I'll say this. I'd take what you have, over what we have to put up with here (the BTCC smash and bash Plato vs Neal championship part 1,493) any day of the week.

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#480 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 23:07

If you dont see V8 Merc's you are not looking hard enough.

This is Australia where a Benz is a luxury car. They sell very few. The only Benz I see regularly are the front drive Korean made small ones,,, and vans of all sizes. Again Korean.
As a V8 Commodore hoons past in the background!

#481 packapoo

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 05:26

Hey Lee :up: :up:
With you all the way!


#482 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 09:35

Another oops from V8 Supercar. They have allowed the Nissans different fuel as they are too uneconomical on the fuel the rest use. So they then go and win first time out! Only some of them get the different fuel though I guess the two Norton cars got it.
Rick Kelley was midfield and Todd as usual was at the back playing with the Benzs. though Maro Engel was the leading Benz at about 20th!

Rule changes for different players has always been negative. Nissan always seem to be in the forefront of this. The turbo Bluebirds in the 80s, The Godzilla AWDs in the 90s.

In this weeks Fiction the boss of Mazda is saying the same as I have all year.

#483 krapmeister

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 11:02

Is that really true? Different fuel for the Nissans?!?! WTF are V8Supercars thinking?



#484 Sardukar

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 11:18

This track is the least engine dependent track on the calendar, it wasn't just down to fuel type.



#485 willini

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 11:59

That is exactly right, this isn't a power track at all. The top 10 was only split by 0.12 sec, so it is very close, and track position is so important here as passing is difficult. Having a front start helped tremendously. I hope they can repeat the performance tomorrow when they revert back to the E85, just to prove the point. Surely management is happy to see a new manufacturer winning

#486 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 07:42

With Larkhams trace's of the Nissan it appeared the initial response was marginally better.And then economy is better so they have to carry less fuel. The whole object of the exercise.
Stuffing around with the rules is damn stupid. If the new players cannot keep up they should do more work to fix it.

#487 mouserat159

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:34

Great to see Nissan first win at Winton.

#488 Yhamm

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 18:42

was good not to see the RedBulls at the front for once ;)



#489 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 22:03

was good not to see the RedBulls at the front for once ;)

Maybe they do need Adrian Burgess! Craig made the top 10 by punting off a Nissan and subsequently lost 25 points. And Whincup was nowhere, even after the new tyres in race 3.
I am sure they will do better at Sandown. Though with all the jiggery pokey to help the minnows up the rung who knows anymore.
As for no advantage? The Nissans where a long way down next race, better in race 3.
We have all been told that 4 valve engines use less fuel. Clearly not the case in V8 Thupercar land.
Black Datsuns also seem to break rear suspensions. Todd of the line in race 3 and Rick while turning right on Frosty near the end. This year generally yellow ones go faster!

#490 Myrvold

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 22:23

Where was the Merc with the different fuel then?



#491 willini

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 02:35

I tend to think that the advantage was minimal (at this track anyway), as you say the Merc's did nothing special.  I just think they really had it together in qualifying and race 1, it was very close.  Look at the time differences in qualifying to realise just how hard it is to be consistently at the front, and track position is key around there.  This is what makes Whincup so good, he is always up there (this weekend aside).  Look at Winterbottom, winner 1 race from the front, then grid 19 another!!  Winton can be a very fickle track.  The Nissan's really had a similar story to this. It's a shame that the rulemakers appeared to change the rules in the middle of the weekend, pretty strange really.  If the Nissan's had wiped the floor all weekend there might have been cause for concern, but I don't think that would have happened.  We will never know..



#492 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 23:15

The soap opera continues in Thupercar land. Reading Speed Café the 'parity' idea is to force 4 pitstops on all competitors. Though the 4 valve competitors are still crying because they will take longer to refuel and have to carry more fuel.
Todd Kelly is threatening that Nissan might quit if they cannot catch up! For mine, piss off as you are just whingers anyway. And they seldom ever won anything with a Holden anyway.

This thread was started re what is wrong with V8 Thupercar. And this is very much wrong as if you7 cany win you cry and get given free help, instead of development, that they knew they had to do in the first place.

A Holden person on radio this week has come under fire for saying that the Nissan win at Winton should be banned as effectively they were cheating. And V8 Supercar actually allowed it. A different blend of fuel that supposedly made no advantage,, but Moffat then won a race on it. Ooops! He pointed out that in F1 if a back mark team was given different specs so they could win all hell would happen. So why does a different spec for different teams seem ok for a Thupercar!

Jason Bright is calling for control engines, though then Nissan, MB, and Volvo have said they will not play. Though they want different rules for themselves.

Clearly the whole category is a joke. And even with mandated pitstops is still pandering to the new teams. Though that may bite them anyway as the Holdens and Fords can then run harder on fuel. This with their so called dinosaur engines that the public are told are out of date and use too much fuel!

What may happen ofcourse is give too many freedoms and Ford will walk, and possibly Holden too. Then any credibility this series has will leave too.

#493 Myrvold

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 00:25

Took you long enough :)



#494 Ian G

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 05:25

All will be forgotten & foregiven when Bathurst  rolls around.



#495 seldo

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 06:09

The soap opera continues in Thupercar land. Reading Speed Café the 'parity' idea is to force 4 pitstops on all competitors. Though the 4 valve competitors are still crying because they will take longer to refuel and have to carry more fuel.
Todd Kelly is threatening that Nissan might quit if they cannot catch up! For mine, piss off as you are just whingers anyway. And they seldom ever won anything with a Holden anyway.

This thread was started re what is wrong with V8 Thupercar. And this is very much wrong as if you7 cany win you cry and get given free help, instead of development, that they knew they had to do in the first place.

A Holden person on radio this week has come under fire for saying that the Nissan win at Winton should be banned as effectively they were cheating. And V8 Supercar actually allowed it. A different blend of fuel that supposedly made no advantage,, but Moffat then won a race on it. Ooops! He pointed out that in F1 if a back mark team was given different specs so they could win all hell would happen. So why does a different spec for different teams seem ok for a Thupercar!

Jason Bright is calling for control engines, though then Nissan, MB, and Volvo have said they will not play. Though they want different rules for themselves.

Clearly the whole category is a joke. And even with mandated pitstops is still pandering to the new teams. Though that may bite them anyway as the Holdens and Fords can then run harder on fuel. This with their so called dinosaur engines that the public are told are out of date and use too much fuel!

What may happen ofcourse is give too many freedoms and Ford will walk, and possibly Holden too. Then any credibility this series has will leave too.

Interesting...I wonder if it is just co-incidence that this fuel concession has come about at the same time that young James Moffat hits the scene.
What we now know as V8SC gradually morphed over many years from Group C, which in turn grew out of Series Production Touring Cars.
But guess who was the main protagonist who pushed for the gradual concessions for Group C was....Alan Moffat. He was the one who pushed for optional wheels (the Fords were breaking wheels). He was the one who pushed for roller-rockers (the Fords were breaking rockers). He was the one who got dry-sumping (oil-surge problems with the Fords. He pushed through the Mazda Peripheral-Port allowances....and it goes on.
Maybe he's giving the young bloke a few tips on who and how.
As the young people these days are wont to add...Just sayin'... :)

#496 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 07:22

Interesting...I wonder if it is just co-incidence that this fuel concession has come about at the same time that young James Moffat hits the scene.
What we now know as V8SC gradually morphed over many years from Group C, which in turn grew out of Series Production Touring Cars.
But guess who was the main protagonist who pushed for the gradual concessions for Group C was....Alan Moffat. He was the one who pushed for optional wheels (the Fords were breaking wheels). He was the one who pushed for roller-rockers (the Fords were breaking rockers). He was the one who got dry-sumping (oil-surge problems with the Fords. He pushed through the Mazda Peripheral-Port allowances....and it goes on.
Maybe he's giving the young bloke a few tips on who and how.
As the young people these days are wont to add...Just sayin'... :)

You and I have seen this crap over several decades. If you cant keep up whinge and get the rules changed. Al Pal was very good at that. Though I think James just gets in and drives.
I think some good rain tyres may be in order though as it is poring here and Melbourne gets our weather 12-24 hours later.

#497 seldo

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 04:32

I was somewhat surprised to see that in today's practise at Sandown that only a few of the Formula 5000s are doing similar times to the V8SCs. Tom Tweedy is the exception at 2 secs faster, but then there's only about 3 F5000s doing V8SC times and the rest wouldn't make the back of the grid

Edited by seldo, 13 September 2013 - 05:58.


#498 packapoo

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:50

A slurp of the Winton rocket juice should fix them..... :)



#499 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 05:26

I was somewhat surprised to see that in today's practise at Sandown that only a few of the Formula 5000s are doing similar times to the V8SCs. Tom Tweedy is the exception at 2 secs faster, but then there's only about 3 F5000s doing V8SC times and the rest wouldn't make the back of the grid

The ones at the back are doing ute times. Though remember some older drivers in 40 year old cars. And a Supercar team lunch money budget is more than what many of those cars are racing on.

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#500 karne

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 10:30

*sigh* I didn't see the race but it sounds like once again, Luff was useless and Lowndes had to do a mighty lot of work to get back up top. I wish 888 would get a clue and find Lowndes a REAL co-driver!