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V8 Supercars - 2013 Season


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#401 dimoose

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 02:25

Well it's been on the cards for a while, but to hear it actually comes as a surprise still

http://www.abc.net.a...-plants/4707960



As a Engineer at Ford's Broadmedows Plant im shattered, even though i have greater job security than others.

Will be interesting to see what model, if any, will replace the falcon in Supercars.

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#402 Alfisti

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 02:33

It seems Holden finally won the war. A great shame but it's hard to keep bleeding money like they have, it's very very difficult to design and build a car for just a single country, especially one this size. I don't like all the grief the local manufacturers get, big fords and big holdens have their issue sbut they ride/handle like nothing else, the aussie engineers have done a brilliant job in this regard. Yes other cars handle better, others ride better but not much if anything does both to this level.

#403 Eff One 2002

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 02:48

It seems Holden finally won the war. A great shame but it's hard to keep bleeding money like they have, it's very very difficult to design and build a car for just a single country, especially one this size. I don't like all the grief the local manufacturers get, big fords and big holdens have their issue sbut they ride/handle like nothing else, the aussie engineers have done a brilliant job in this regard. Yes other cars handle better, others ride better but not much if anything does both to this level.


Why not export the Falcon to the States? They're all about big performance vehicles over there. So what we have the Falcon in V8 Supercars until 2016 and then no more Falcons?

#404 Brother Fox

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 02:58

Sorry to hear it dimoose, I guess your skillset is more widely wanted which is a positive.

They have both a mid and a full size already in the States though, the Fusion and Taurus. You'd just be taking sales from that Id think, without the known name.
I think they persisted with the big full-size 6 Cylinder sedan for too long, i dont think anyone I know (and im 36 in the young kids and a shitload of stuff to carry demographic) owns a Falcon or Commodore.

I think the Mondeo would look nice in race trim - do they use them anywhere does anyone know?

Going to be tough on Geelong too. Melbourne obviously has the size that can roll with this, but every second building when you drive through Geelong has a blue oval.

Edited by Brother Fox, 23 May 2013 - 03:01.


#405 dimoose

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 03:00

Why not export the Falcon to the States? They're all about big performance vehicles over there. So what we have the Falcon in V8 Supercars until 2016 and then no more Falcons?


They can't because Falcon was not engineered for a LH Drive version.

#406 Wuzak

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 03:19

They can't because Falcon was not engineered for a LH Drive version.


And that was a deliberate decision not to engineer for LH drive.

#407 Wuzak

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 03:20

I think the Mondeo would look nice in race trim - do they use them anywhere does anyone know?


I believe Mondeo = Fusion now. Ford runs the Fusion in NASCAR.


#408 Brother Fox

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 03:42

Yeah but the NASCARs really dont resemble the car much, at least the V8's use proper lights/grills etc instead of stickers.
A twisted part of me would like to see a V8 Focus :drunk:



#409 FPV GTHO

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 06:41

And that was a deliberate decision not to engineer for LH drive.

It doesn't really matter, they would've lost money on the program unless they sold something like 20k units. Holden has never made money selling cars in the US.

#410 Wuzak

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 13:43

It doesn't really matter, they would've lost money on the program unless they sold something like 20k units. Holden has never made money selling cars in the US.


I would doubt they would need to sell 20k additional units to fund the development of LHD. I wouldn't think the business case on the FG required much more than 20k units.

And for perspective, so far this year (to the end of April) Ford has sold 289,950 (up from 257,800) cars. Total light vehicle (includes SUVs, p/u trucks) sales is 808,800. In 4 months!

Total car sales in the US YTD is 2.5m (1.7m imported). Total light vehicle sales is 4.9m.

20k Falcons to the US pa may not have been a huge problem - provided they sold the right models. Low end models such as XT/XR6 probably wouldn't have gone well. FPV F6, Typhoon and GT may have done well enough. Utes could have sold well.

Edited by Wuzak, 23 May 2013 - 13:53.


#411 Alfisti

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 17:47

The US already has the Taurus which looks like it's about to go tits up as well. Everyone is buying small CUV's, they are everywhere. GM has the Impala but it's an old mans car and built for fleet sales so the Commodore has a potential market.

The Pontiac G8 (Commodore) stands out like dogs balls over here, there's nothing like it on the road, so vanilla up here it's Ned Flanders wet dream.

#412 Melbourne Park

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 23:24

The Australian dollar killed Ford. We had a 60 cent dollar for years. It hit $1.08 last year. That killed our locals.

And manufacturing everywhere in Australia has been going broke.

The reason our dollar is so high, is mostly because the Chinese currency is fixed to the US dollar. Which is the most anti-free trade fixture of all history. China's economy has had 13% annual GDP increases for over a decade. Yet its dollar has hardly moved compared to the US dollar's valuation.

Why? I presume because the part owners of corporations in China (mostly US and also European corporations) want the Chinese currency low, so that their companies can improve their profits, and their CEO's and a few selected execs can enjoy share option benefits worth multi-millions of dollars. A floating Renminbi (few know its name because its not floating although the notes are yuán) would have resulted in a very different world.

The supplier business that feeds Ford will be hugely hurt. And they've been on their knees anyway.

So, Australia will just buy foreign stuff. We'll depend on medicine, although our pharmaceuticals are suffering too, education, adding value to food ... but hang on, those things are also being hit by our high dollar.

And when our raw material exports drop, our dollar will return to 60 cents, and our prices for goods will triple, and we'll join the third world. Not that many Australians much care. Its weird.

Edited by Melbourne Park, 23 May 2013 - 23:34.


#413 Zippel

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 00:09

The Australian dollar killed Ford. We had a 60 cent dollar for years. It hit $1.08 last year. That killed our locals.


The closure has been on the cards for years. When Mitsubishi were silently making plans to jump ship when the Aus dollar was around 70 cents. It was obvious when Ford scrapped plans to build the Focus here the end was near.

What really did it was a number of things including:

Reducing tariffs: The whole idea behind it was to make Australian cars more competitive but if a whole industry is killed off what's the point?

The bizarre shift away from family sedans to SUVs in Australia. This odd shift in Australia would have been hard to predict in the early to mid-00s. It just seemed to happen. Like people had this weird idea they were better because Americans all had one and one felt safer…. Ford at least tried remedy this with the Territory but too late.

I will say Australian vehicles have had their share of reliability problems but considering Mercedes recently overtook some of our local production in sales I'd say that can't be a reason for people not to buy a local car. Mercedes' record is far worse in that area.

The big shame is the latest Falcons are the best cars they've ever built in Geelong and eventually those distinctive Falcon engines will become fewer and fewer on our roads. Trailer pulling RWD sedans are going to become a thing of the past….


#414 Zippel

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 00:31

Why not export the Falcon to the States? They're all about big performance vehicles over there. So what we have the Falcon in V8 Supercars until 2016 and then no more Falcons?


This is another thing. We're expected to reduce our tariffs yet all these other countries we open our car industry to slap a ****ing giant thing on ours. What an absolute con!!!

#415 Ian G

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 01:11

Well it's been on the cards for a while, but to hear it actually comes as a surprise still

http://www.abc.net.a...-plants/4707960


Yeah,sad day,interesting to see if the Libs. throw more money at Holden to keep them going past 2022.The comments yesterday from Ford says it all,its 4 times more expensive for them to manufacture(more likely assemble with all the imported parts in a Falcon/Commodore these days) in Oz. than Thailand.

#416 Wuzak

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 01:51

Yeah,sad day,interesting to see if the Libs. throw more money at Holden to keep them going past 2022.The comments yesterday from Ford says it all,its 4 times more expensive for them to manufacture(more likely assemble with all the imported parts in a Falcon/Commodore these days) in Oz. than Thailand.


Part of that is to do with volume too.

Also, Australia has a car import tariff of 5%. Thailand has a tariff of 50%. And we have a Free Trade Agreement with Thailand. How "free" is that.

#417 Brother Fox

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 02:30

The bizarre shift away from family sedans to SUVs in Australia. This odd shift in Australia would have been hard to predict in the early to mid-00s. It just seemed to happen.

But other manufacturers realised and moved on it, the traditional Japanese brands (Honda/Mazda/Nissan) and even the new ones to serious car manufacture Hyundai/Kia.
Ford were caught napping, and theres no excuse really.

Yeah,sad day,interesting to see if the Libs. throw more money at Holden to keep them going past 2022.The comments yesterday from Ford says it all,its 4 times more expensive for them to manufacture(more likely assemble with all the imported parts in a Falcon/Commodore these days) in Oz. than Thailand.

Those numbers were quite shocking. Also, twice as expensive as Europe!! I know they have access to cheap markets inside the EU like Poland/Czech Republic but still.

I wonder if Ford Oz will use this to push for changes in V8's rules if they want them to stay? Like a move to turbo 6's thats been floated by people here before

#418 Alfisti

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 02:33

The idea that Australia will make anything any more is madness, well at the current dollar levels anyway.

The cost of labour is immense, the rent and property maintenance is absurd, red tape everywhere, massive distances to cover, small local market, high regulation .... it's not gonna happen.

#419 Melbourne Park

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 02:41

The idea that Australia will make anything any more is madness, well at the current dollar levels anyway.

The cost of labour is immense, the rent and property maintenance is absurd, red tape everywhere, massive distances to cover, small local market, high regulation .... it's not gonna happen.


Our energy is the cheapest in the world. At least, the energy we export is. Our own energy is now being heavily taxed.

Distances to cover - Melbourne has 4 million people alone. Sydney / Woolongong / Newcastle etc 6 million. All close to each other. The distance thing is not for real - the issue is that we export our raw materials, instead of adding value to them ourselves. We should be exported at least refined metals, rather than bauxite and gas and coal. However our government is against doing so. God knows why.

Labour also is not the prime issue. Technology can make up for that, and good work force relations. To be a developed nation, you need to make things. And if you don't, you're not a developed nation. We need to remember that.

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#420 Brother Fox

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 02:42

But unfortunately people cant shake the idea that Australian made is better. Theres a few industries that are going to learn some tough lessons, and im surprised they havent already.



Though to counteract my own point, England has a good car manufacturing industry - I know Nissan have a plant there. How do they do it? Maybe easy access to European market helps?

#421 Zippel

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 02:58

But other manufacturers realised and moved on it, the traditional Japanese brands (Honda/Mazda/Nissan) and even the new ones to serious car manufacture Hyundai/Kia.
Ford were caught napping, and theres no excuse really.


It's kinda hard to shake off a sedan that's been traditionally selling well in the local market for many many years and whose greatest exposure was V8 Supercars. Also, the V8 Supercar rules during that time required manufacturers to be locally made.

Also, the expense required to refit factories would have been enormous, particularly if the SUVpetrol guzzlers turned out to be a fad. All great in hindsight but at the time its a risky swap.

But unfortunately people cant shake the idea that Australian made is better. Theres a few industries that are going to learn some tough lessons, and im surprised they havent already.



Though to counteract my own point, England has a good car manufacturing industry - I know Nissan have a plant there. How do they do it? Maybe easy access to European market helps?


Europe has a lot more barriers for imported cars to protect their industries, and financial aid. Most European cars are unreliable and age horribly next to a Falcon and Commodore due to their being built to only last a few years.

Edited by Zippel, 24 May 2013 - 03:01.


#422 Brother Fox

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 03:12

But they could have supplemented it with something from US or Europe without binning the Falcon. Like holden did with the Captiva.
When they did with the Territory they still misjudged it and still used a big 6 when all the others (mentioned before) were going 4 cylinder

Im actually kinda sad to see the Falcon name go, I learnt to drive on an XY V8 :)



#423 Wuzak

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 04:32

When they did with the Territory they still misjudged it and still used a big 6 when all the others (mentioned before) were going 4 cylinder


Ford do have the Escape, which is a 4 cylinder SUV. It has been selling alongside the Territory for a while.

I think the big misjudgement was to not have the Diesel option from the beginning.

That and the fact that it wasn't going to get exported/built in LHD.


Im actually kinda sad to see the Falcon name go, I learnt to drive on an XY V8 :)


I'm kinda glad they're not sticking the Falcon name on the Taurus for Oz.



#424 Melbourne Park

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 04:44

Via my son, I spoke to the head financial person at Ford Australia a few times. Her husband also came out to Australia, and he consulted here and there, for Ford a bit ... he had an MBA, and he spoke at length about how good the Territory was (an SUV based on the Falcon) and how complicated it was trying to get a diesel for both the Falcon and the Territory. And that was ... let me think ... 7 years ago, because my son was at middle school (his son had come out from the USA and went to my son's school). When the shit hit the fan at Ford, she had to go back to the USA, urgently. She was a Vice President ...

The Territory was highly exportable, but it was politics in Ford that killed that happening IMO. Incidentally the Territory's front suspension was very good, and the X-5 BMW copied it ... they were just the same design. So I have been told, anyhow ...

But bottom line, is that the Australian dollar has been pushed up too high, due to the Chinese Quarrying Australia. And the Chinese have been able to do so, because their dollar doesn't float. Its as completely artificial, as is Europe's lack of free trade.

And Australia is the bunny ... long term it is, IMO ... I believe in free trade, but part of free trade, is floating currencies. We'd be better off with the gold standard ...

Edited by Melbourne Park, 24 May 2013 - 04:45.


#425 FPV GTHO

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 06:43

I would doubt they would need to sell 20k additional units to fund the development of LHD. I wouldn't think the business case on the FG required much more than 20k units.

And for perspective, so far this year (to the end of April) Ford has sold 289,950 (up from 257,800) cars. Total light vehicle (includes SUVs, p/u trucks) sales is 808,800. In 4 months!

Total car sales in the US YTD is 2.5m (1.7m imported). Total light vehicle sales is 4.9m.

20k Falcons to the US pa may not have been a huge problem - provided they sold the right models. Low end models such as XT/XR6 probably wouldn't have gone well. FPV F6, Typhoon and GT may have done well enough. Utes could have sold well.


The problems start before you factor in LHD. Theres tougher emissions laws in the US that need to be passed, you need a supply network, you need to get them over there but most of all theres the cost. Nobody would want an XT or XR6 over there when you can get Mustang V6's and Fusions for $US22K. Even Taurus is only $US27K, thats almost the price some of the last Monaro based GTO's had to sell for to get off the dealer lot. 20k units is just a number that they would need to send to be making profit for it to be worth the effort.

The US already has the Taurus which looks like it's about to go tits up as well. Everyone is buying small CUV's, they are everywhere. GM has the Impala but it's an old mans car and built for fleet sales so the Commodore has a potential market.


Theres a new Taurus coming in a few years. Given the new Fusion is almost as large as the old Taurus, the new model is likely to be wider and will be based on the Fusion. Theres a new Impala coming as well
Posted Image

I wonder if Ford Oz will use this to push for changes in V8's rules if they want them to stay? Like a move to turbo 6's thats been floated by people here before


I dont think it will matter. If they dont change engines before 2017, they might use the opportunity to race with their 5L cammer

#426 Melbourne Park

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 00:40

All true FPV ... but only the six cylinder engines are Australian ... also, its not about the Falcon. The exportable car was the SUV, the Territory. However, the USA have heavy protection for SUVs ... so that killed the USA for imports of the Territory. But Ford did not want it to be sold into any other markets. Perhaps politics? Things happen very slowly at Ford Australia IMO - the diesel engine debacle being a case in point.

Holden have sold quite a few of their cars into world markets. The Statesman is a Chevy in the middle east, and has won car awards over there. But GM don't seem keen to develop it much - its only got a 4 speed gearbox. How ridiculous. The version sold into China, has a bar in the back, and is very luxo. Toyota sells the V6 Camry (Aurion) into the middle east, they are tropicalised, and handle heat easily (I presume the Holden Chevy models are the same). Both companies though would be suffering with our ridiculous dollar, as are all manufacturers in Australia.

We should have tied our currency to the Chinese currency 10 years ago. Or to the US currency - which is the same thing. The concept of small countries with floating dollars is ridiculous for exporters, because it robs exporters of certainty. The Free Traders in Treasury and the Reserve Bank are clueless ... they expouse the benefits of Free Trade, but play in a world of barriers and artificial currencies.

The irony with my words though, is Europe. There, the Euro currency has kept Germany competitive. The Euro's value has been kept down, due to some Euro countries economic problems. Without the Euro, the Deutchmark would be twice or three times the value of the Euro, and Germany would be facing the issues that Australia is; instead, the Euro has been a bonanza for Germany

Edited by Melbourne Park, 25 May 2013 - 00:51.


#427 Wuzak

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:26

The irony with my words though, is Europe. There, the Euro currency has kept Germany competitive. The Euro's value has been kept down, due to some Euro countries economic problems. Without the Euro, the Deutchmark would be twice or three times the value of the Euro, and Germany would be facing the issues that Australia is; instead, the Euro has been a bonanza for Germany


And it has been overvalued for other countries - like Spain and Greece.


#428 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 23:02

Sorry to hear it dimoose, I guess your skillset is more widely wanted which is a positive.

They have both a mid and a full size already in the States though, the Fusion and Taurus. You'd just be taking sales from that Id think, without the known name.
I think they persisted with the big full-size 6 Cylinder sedan for too long, i dont think anyone I know (and im 36 in the young kids and a shitload of stuff to carry demographic) owns a Falcon or Commodore.

I think the Mondeo would look nice in race trim - do they use them anywhere does anyone know?

Going to be tough on Geelong too. Melbourne obviously has the size that can roll with this, but every second building when you drive through Geelong has a blue oval.

Most younger family blokes in my acquaintance have either a Falcon or a Commodore for the very reason of a decent size car that has enough power to get out of its own way. Either that or a 4 wheel drive of at least Pajero or Prado size. And often these are older cars as generally they cannot afford newer ones.
The ones that drive mechanised prams are often dictated by their wives.


#429 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 23:35

This discussion has morphed into the pros and cons of Australian manufacturing. Currently it is too expensive to manufacture in this country. Wages are too high, as is energy, and then there is the miles of red tape.
And then the so called free trade where subsidised cars are dumped on the Aussie market with little or no tarrif protection. Manufacturers cannot have a hope of competing.

Saying that Ford have been asleep,very good cars but lousy marketing, it seems no real ambition to export. It seems it will be easier to become an importer, but I feel the buyers will resist the crap they will import. Some are Mazdas, some are Kia and the rest very average Euro cars that have always had a poor sales record, lousy quality with expensive servicing and abysmal resale. Mondeo, Taurus, even Focus and Fiesta all fit that bill.

But with economys of scale it is very well known that Holden and Toymota will be unable to continue for very long as suppliers will not be viable with 1/3 less business. They have been screwed to the wall already by the manufacturers and several of them are in receivership or propped up by the manufacturers already. And again Labour is pricing themselves out of a job rapidly.

It seems already post US recession that US workers are now working for less and the unions have lost a lot of power, it may happen here too, though probably too late for our manufacturers to be anything more than assemblers, not manufacturers.

Holden semi manufacture Commodore, as do Ford with Falcons and Territory. Maybe just over 50% local. Toyota are less with Camry and its big brother [mental blank] as the engines and transmission were always brought in. As well as tooling and design.
Corrollas are not Aussie assembled as many still think, I had a woman here recently that was very annoyed about that. She thought she had bought a locally made car!! And the figures this week say it is the No1 car. God help buyers! At least the former No 1 Mazda 3 has some sort of appeal and excitement unlike the boring boring Corrolla.

Australia is a big country, the market has been through the resistance to fullsize cars before , in the late 70s we lost Chrysler who were taken over by Mitsubishi when the Sigma was flavour of the month. Though I see about 100-1 Valiants these days over Sigmas, Colts, Galants etc. So I guess the old Vals were a better quality car after all. Most of the so called eco cars are throwaway after 5-10 years. How many 90s prams do you see? Bugger all but lots of 80s and 90s Ford and Holden. Magnas pre 96 are almost a thing of the past too. And Camrys the same. Drive one and realise why. Drive an XF and realise why they are far better cars.

Finally, like quite a few countrys we have lost so much other manufacturing, clothes, electronics, furniture, most homewares. As well as in automotive area tyres totally, most batterys, most wheels, most radiators, Air cond components in total, wiring harnesses and components, most starters, alternators and the like.All that were made here to get the 90+ percent local content demanded until the 90s.

#430 Brother Fox

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 23:44

Its funny, given your opinoins on V8 supercars, that the kind of rubbish youre spouting here about mechanised prams, crap imports and having the power to 'get out of your own way' makes you sound like the sterotypical V8 Supercars fan to me


#431 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 23:44

Back to Thupercars, I read Speedcafe most days. Yesterday the most popular call to race was Toyota, today Volvo is going to race, Last weeks Fiction says Chrysler and Hyundia have been heavily touted.
WTF V8 Camrys, Hyundias and Volvos. The fact that those manufacturers do not make V8 cars and they are front drive too.
Even Sports Sedans do not allow you to change ends with the drive.
The whole deal is turning away viewers/ spectators in droves.
And the whole Supercar admin is in crisis, staff leaving, poor TV deals, poorer competitor deals, as well as new very expensive cars.
Probably 2016 will see the end of the category too. Then we can have front drive Tauruses racing Camrys, etc etc. Though we have been there, remember 2 litres that was lucky to have friends and relatives come and watch!!

#432 Jazza

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 00:17

Back to Thupercars, I read Speedcafe most days. Yesterday the most popular call to race was Toyota, today Volvo is going to race, Last weeks Fiction says Chrysler and Hyundia have been heavily touted.
WTF V8 Camrys, Hyundias and Volvos. The fact that those manufacturers do not make V8 cars and they are front drive too.
Even Sports Sedans do not allow you to change ends with the drive.
The whole deal is turning away viewers/ spectators in droves.
And the whole Supercar admin is in crisis, staff leaving, poor TV deals, poorer competitor deals, as well as new very expensive cars.
Probably 2016 will see the end of the category too. Then we can have front drive Tauruses racing Camrys, etc etc. Though we have been there, remember 2 litres that was lucky to have friends and relatives come and watch!!


They all make Falcon/Commodore size RWD V8's. They may not all be on sale in Australia, but they are out there.

In fact, there are very few car companies out there that do not have a large RWD V8 car in their line up. They just don't sell them in Australia.

#433 275 GTB-4

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 00:18

Sadly, Volvo are denying that they will participate down under...better luck next time Seldo :)

#434 FPV GTHO

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:08

Its funny, given your opinoins on V8 supercars, that the kind of rubbish youre spouting here about mechanised prams, crap imports and having the power to 'get out of your own way' makes you sound like the sterotypical V8 Supercars fan to me


Was just about to say, Lee has his head in the sand on this one.

Fords imported lineup is all Ford these days. No rebadged Festivas built by Kia or Lasers/Couriers/Telstars built by Mazda. Their Euro cars have also underpinned their new global cars.

I'll remind people again current model Taurus wont be in production when Falcon sales stop in Oct' 16, and when the rest of the current D3/4 range migrates to new platforms that will be the last Volvo derived Fords.

#435 packapoo

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 04:16

Sadly, Volvo are denying that they will participate down under...better luck next time Seldo :)


Is your sadness still current though?
I've seen a report from a reputable site today that states Volvo and GRM are go. (At least I believe it's a reputable site).
Done a bit of a net search to link up a current V8 to Volvo. Nothing conclusive.


#436 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 02:53

Volvo currently make a V6 front drive on the car mooted for racing,, with a 'generic' engine.
As do Hyundia, though that has gone quiet. As is the Camry though I feel Toymota probably are not interested.

As for Ford utes not being Mazda sourced go look at the things, Made in Thailand I believe a long with a lot of other utes. And Ford control Kia.
Asa for bagging Euro prams, I work on them occasionally and they are not good cars, nor is any of Holdens Euro sourced rubbish either. And the Cruze is an Australian assembled Daewoo. Not a great car either.

And yes I like full size proper rear drive cars, I usually drive a Falcon or two.But what they race these days as supposed Touring Cars are obese, both in size and budget Sports Sedans. And for all the money they are still slower too than a good Sports Sedan. Most of which are 20 years old!!!

Supercars is past its use by date. The cars have no resemblance to a road car. Crowds are down, they cannot get a decent TV deal, staff are leaving, competitors are not getting the returns. And V8 Volvos will not cut the mustard. The Datsuns and Benzs are not popular either,, and the Benz is at least sold with a V8.

#437 Wuzak

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 03:13

Even Sports Sedans do not allow you to change ends with the drive.


Are you sure about that?

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

http://performancefo...ts-Sedan/page43

I hate to think how fast a Sports Sedan could go with their rules and V8Supercar budgets!

#438 wonk123

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 03:30

I hate to think how fast a Sports Sedan could go with their rules and V8Supercar budgets!


Or even some decent engineering! I once bought a reasonably competitive sports sedan, and what a bucket of crap it was. I am currently making an 8 throttle body manifold for an sb2 that will be going into a 180sx that a mate has built, it is very basic but given a bit of development should be quick. It really should be 750hp and 1150kg.

#439 Wuzak

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 03:38

How light could the current V8 be if they removed the minimum weight restrictions?

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#440 wonk123

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 03:45

How light could the current V8 be if they removed the minimum weight restrictions?



Not as light as the sports sedans if they removed their minimum weight :rotfl:

When SS had no minimum weight Ithink they were under 1000kg with a Small Block.
Lee might remember what the weight of that Elfin built Prelude was.


#441 packapoo

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 04:29

[quote name='Lee Nicolle' date='Jun 9 2013, 02:53' post='6305900']
Volvo currently make a V6 front drive on the car mooted for racing,, with a 'generic' engine.
As do Hyundia, though that has gone quiet. As is the Camry though I feel Toymota probably are not interested.

Agreed Lee.

There would seem to be some pretty significant concessions needing be made for the Volvo plan to float, even more so then those given for the Nissan and Merc entrants.


#442 FPV GTHO

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 11:24

As for Ford utes not being Mazda sourced go look at the things, Made in Thailand I believe a long with a lot of other utes. And Ford control Kia.
Asa for bagging Euro prams, I work on them occasionally and they are not good cars, nor is any of Holdens Euro sourced rubbish either. And the Cruze is an Australian assembled Daewoo. Not a great car either.

As I said, head in the sand. Or perhaps living under a rock is a more appropriate term. Facts are Ford developed the current T6 Ranger, Fords design office in Melbourne was the project lead with Mazda only responsible for the BT-50 which is so ugly the official ads have it with a bull bar. Kia hasn't had anything to do with Ford either since 1997 when they declared bankruptcy and came under the control of Hyundai.

#443 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 07:48

The debacles continue in Darwin. Clearly those blokes are not up for rolling starts. As the chaos and stupidity showed. Lowndes started it by overdriving but most behind it , again, just drove into it. Again the best drivers in the country?? Trying to win in the first lap. Many of those cars should have been black flagged on safety grounds, Tander, Lowndes Bright and others all had bits hanging off and bonnets more than likely to come loose. Just common sense safety grounds, nothing happened but that was more good luck really.

Though 2 wide rolling starts on a track like that is a recipe for disaster. Sandown or PI maybe though why? It does not improve the event.

Though from what Dave Reynolds said after there was supposed to be a 'go' over the radios. Maybe he stuffed up though? Probably disorganisation on the officials part again. Whatever gifted Whincup the start.

Then Frosty, usually too unaggressive got too aggressive and took Reynolds out. The drive through was more than justified. And no they are NOT teammates, Rod Nash Racing is a separate entity. Like Tim Slade was last year with Stone Bros, that team was owned by James Rosenberg. Customer cars, and the commentators should get it right. Crompton normally would. Buglebeak must be a bad influence on him!

Then the refilling the dry ice on the grid for Whincups car, sorry rules is rules and it should never have happened. There may be more about that later, maybe.

And the first race where Kellys Datsun was spewing oil everywhere, it should have been blackflagged, Bright and others were screaming, rightly for it. You could see the oil on Brights screen.

#444 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 06:47

And yet again today. Maybe they should realise that a crashed car will not win!
And the utes were the same, though that is just a demo derby class.

#445 Wuzak

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:00

Is your sadness still current though?
I've seen a report from a reputable site today that states Volvo and GRM are go. (At least I believe it's a reputable site).
Done a bit of a net search to link up a current V8 to Volvo. Nothing conclusive.



It is confirmed.

Volvo to enter V8s with Garry Rogers Motorsport.

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/108108

Edited by Wuzak, 17 June 2013 - 07:01.


#446 Sardukar

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:39



i think the car is going to looks pretty sick

#447 Yhamm

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 11:25

I'm so gonna cheer for them next year!

#448 HaydenFan

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 13:29

That blue car which they want you to think is their V8SC machine is the car they are running in the Scandinavian Touring Car Championship. But if it look anything like it (sans the hatchback model), it will be a good looking car. The current Volvo line is pretty good on the eyes.

#449 Yhamm

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 19:28

That blue car which they want you to think is their V8SC machine is the car they are running in the Scandinavian Touring Car Championship. But if it look anything like it (sans the hatchback model), it will be a good looking car. The current Volvo line is pretty good on the eyes.

Well, it's a S60 and it's the car they will use, what do you want them to show?

#450 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 23:26

It is confirmed.

Volvo to enter V8s with Garry Rogers Motorsport.

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/108108

Yay, another true Sports Sedan, a front drive 6 cylinder car racing as a rear drive V8. That I am sure will sell a lot of Volvos,, Not. Maybe it is a plot by a Nissan Dealer to sell more Nissans [Garry is a Datsun dealer]
That coupled with an inexperienced but good rookie and a seemingly waste of time Frenchman who already knows how to race at the back. That will further set back the development.
A field of totally irrelevant cars. That seem not to be able to stop crashing.