64 replies to this topic

[StuffedBeaver]

For the people NOT in a position to influence their company's advertisment strategy or budget, what can we all do as a group to help out?

Will visiting the advertised sites help or is it more serious than that?

If it does go pay-per-view what would this run to?

I did not send a reply directly to you as I guessed that the same Q&A would be beneficial to all.

[lawyer]

If visiting the advertised sites will help then I will make them homepages in my default browser and the browsers of my co-workers.

To all people:
Have you ever seen a better site on the web?
Have you ever seen a site with more authenthic information?
Do you wnt to loose it?

I guess not !!!! Then let us all think how can we help !!!
Don't be selfish !!

[Spot]

We can't afford to lose this site! It's great!

There would be a problem with PPV - most of the posters here appear to access this site from their place of work. With PPV this would no longer be possible, so we all need to do whatever we can to keep it in it's current format.

So what can those of us with no influence do to help?

[StuffedBeaver]

Why was this thread moved?

I'm not upse, I'd just like an explanation so I don't do it another time

[bira]

Stuffed, it was moved to the Atlas F1 forum as it concerns Atlas F1, and should be open to all users of the BB and not just the Paddock Club members

[Jackman]

Has Atlas ever considered going into print? It worked for nerve.com.

[Thunder]

What is wrong with Atlas?

[Thunder]

I read now. Basically i am ready to pay $100 / year to html help or pdf version electronically delivered to me.

[lukywill]

I think that’s the whole problem about net and sites that do not sell especific things.

Sites as AtlasF1, about information - and not amateurs, will only survive if people pay per view. This is my opinion. Pub will only degenerate in less quality.

-net as all the possibilities of putting people paying what they want to see - whether only an article a day or month or anual subscription.

It is sad but I think will get to it sooner or later.

My advise ( ) is: Pub + Few Pay pages at the moment.

[Thunder]

Luk
My advise ( ) is: Pub + Few Pay pages at the moment.


i agree.


They can do what racefax do also.

[FordPrefect]

Good post, Beave.

I do not want this place to end but I am not sure what I can do about it.

Would I pay if I had to ?...yes, but there may be people who couldn't afford it, I like the 'mix' in this place and I would hate to see it change.

Should we be approaching companies who we feel could advertise on Atlas? I wouldn't have a clue how to begin, but I certainly have some in mind.

Apart from that; what can we the members do?

FP

[Thunder]

What is the budget for atlas ?

[EddieJF1]

I know of a Lancia we could auction off to raise some funds....;)

[John B]

[The Swerve]

Reading between the lines I image this is a precursor to going PPV, and I'm really sorry to see it.

Atlas is the best F1 site on the net, without a shadow of a doubt but would I pay to view it? As a regular reader/BB member I have to be honest and say I'm not sure....

[bira]

The Swerve how about reading in the lines instead of between then?

[lawyer]

hey people, stop showing your fidelity to atlas and swearing that you could pay to view it, cos then it will really turn into PPV.

You better give some ideas
I know that I haven't provide any solution, but... I don't want to have "economical" relations with the people at atlas, e.g. "I have paid, so give me what I paid for". I want it to talk with them only about F1.

[bira]

I think we need to put something in perspective.

The letter Paul wrote was aimed primarily at those readers among us with the ability to draw advertising and sponsorship to Atlas F1.

We are not businessmen; all of us, at the Atlas F1 team, are creative people in our respective jobs. Primarily, we are writers and editors who cover Formula One and I dare say, on the Internet we do a fine job.

Atlas F1's model has always been quality coverage at all costs. And when I say 'all costs' I actually mean our costs. So far, for the past 6 years this week, Atlas F1 was published and has been funded primarily by the people who produce it and own it.

And, the more we expand, the better service we wish to provide, the more expenses we incur.

I will not, and do not see Atlas F1 become a Pay Per View website. Maybe we can come up with dedicated services ON TOP OF the currently available FREE service, that we would offer per nominal fees.

But, the primary income has to be via sponsorship and advertising, no less different - when you think about it - than any other team in Formula One. We are a WINNING team - our readership stats are absolutely soaring, and having a clue or two about the competition I can safely tell you Atlas F1 is one of the biggest F1 websites. Hence, there should be no reason whatsoever that we would not be able to offer good value for money to advertisers and sponsors.

The main problem we face is time, and reachability. We don't have infinite time to wait for sponsors to come to us, and we don't know how and who to contact, to convince them to do business with Atlas F1.

That is what Paul's letter primarily addresses. It states, put simply, that if there is anyone among the readers with the ability and ties to bring in advertising to Atlas F1 -- now is the time to do something about it, because time is the one enemy we got.

[Pascal]

Originally posted by EddieJF1
I know of a Lancia we could auction off to raise some funds....;)

Hands-off my Lancia!!!

I would gladly contribute financially to help Atlas F1 stay alive and well, but maybe not that much...

[JayWay]

Me and Paste and setup a lemonade stand, get funds that way.

[Dennis David]

Why don't we start with a book like "who works ... " and blast those people with information on AtlasF1 and how it can help their business. We should prepare a "pitch book" if there is not one already and send it out. The advertising that I see is pretty general in nature. What if AtlasF1 became a general clearing house for the racing industry on the web to list services to each other. I know that Autosport magazine does that but their website does not duplicate that practice. I think that what is needed is to go beyond the banner model and more like charging for ad space in a newspaper or magazine. This might take some doing but there is a limited number of banners that any one site can hold beyond being a intrusive. I am open to discussing this further with any interested parties.

[Bob Nomates]

You need to get a big invester involved while F1 is becoming more popular that can invest some hard cash, like Damon Hill, he likes reporting or Johnny Herbert who likes reading this site, that can take Atlas to the next level.

[Slick]

I was going to say, maybe we can get Bernie interested in this site and supporting it, but then it WOULD go PPV.

I wish I could help more but I'm not in the right position. I hope all goes well and I look forward to the changes that come where I can help.

Bring forth the T-Shirts

[Ross Stonefeld]

To continue bira's theme of being like a race team...

You dont survive on hand outs in racing, you go out and get the sponsors yourself. I think its referred to as 'cold-calling'


For starters the ads here dont seem very targeted

[The Swerve]

Originally posted by bira
The Swerve how about reading in the lines instead of between then?

How about laying off the heavy sarcasm?

[RAD]

Maybe some F1 related advertisers need to come here. Maybe a direct sponsor would help. I think add banners are completely ignored for the most part. I don't know if Bira or Paul would be interested in whoreing Atlas out to a major firm like COMPAQ or Marlboro, but that is what I think the next wave of internet advertising will become. Just like all of the ballparks have changed their names, maybe atlas could do the same thing and have more money to operate. You can't argue with Atlas's membership. It is the best site on the web. For F1 and for geniune good times. Whatever happens, I will stand beside and try to help as much as I can. I know of a sunglasses company here called Oceanwaves, I have shot their ads a few times. Maybe they will be interested.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Yeah like when autorace became the official PR office for Jordan Honda

[Cocco_Bill]

I agree with The Swerve. It is quite natural to think, that the letter from Paul Kerez could be a precursor to going PPV. Bira, I understand your disappointment in Atlas having to resort to seemingly desperate measures to get fundings, but please dont take out your disappointment on the readers.

[Ross Stonefeld]

No, a verbifying of whore and to whore

whoring

race, to race, racing

[The Swerve]

Originally posted by Bob Nomates
You need to get a big invester involved while F1 is becoming more popular that can invest some hard cash, like Damon Hill, he likes reporting or Johnny Herbert who likes reading this site, that can take Atlas to the next level.

This is a very good idea indeed.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Except then you get into a conflict of interests scenario, like autorace

You'd need backing from someone not affiliated with racing. Even having Compaq money would be questionable everytime a williams article popped up

[Dennis David]

Consider my offer withdrawn.

[theMot]

Ill give you $100 Australian dollars With the way the aussie doller is at the moment that wouldnt even get you a dialup connection though

[Reg]

ATLAS seems to have a huge following of readers , and loyal readers at that.

If the numbers are there, I wonder why it seems so impossible to get F1 related sponsors to advertise or sponsor sections of this web.

I agree the staff of writers here at ATLAS are top notch, but maybe you need to hire an expert marketer, or an ad salesperson..or something.

Why would'nt a major company want to be associated with the premier web authority covering F1? There seems to be a kazzillion amount of $$ out there in the world of autoracing so why can't ATLAS get any??

Pay per View on the web ...that I am not sure of. People will just go to where it is free, even if they do not get as good of quality. There is stiff competition out here!

It would be great as someone else stated if a current or ex F1 star could help out!

[Andy]

What I hear in Paul's note is a plea, not only for advertizers, but for IDEAS.

I do not know the exact numbers, but there are litterally hundreds of thousands of people who check in on AtlasF1 daily. A small proportion of these people come into the BB area but use the rest of the site regularly. Somewhere, amongst us all, there has to be a good idea... THE IDEA!

We laugh at JayWay's suggestion of starting a Lemonade Stand, but in all reality it is a start. Not that we actually want JayWay out curbside flogging lemonade (Well, it WOULD keep him out of our hair...!;) ), but why can't AtlasF1 revolutionalize the Internet by coming up with a new, unique idea to generate revenues. Ideas come from people putting their heads together and "brainstorming". This "idea" is out there somewhere, maybe in one person's head, maybe a combination of people's ideas.

16-year-olds became overnight millionaires on the Internet just a couple years ago by coming up with ideas which made us all stop and think "what a good idea, why didn't I think of that?" Just because that generation of Internet businesses seems to be fading into the sunset, doesn't mean we all have to follow. Every new form of media has gone through it's 'growing pains' and the Internet should be no different.

I am typing this with one hand as I hold my 5-week-old son in my other arm, and it makes me think... When my eldest brother was born in the early 50's there was this relatively new gizmo called the television. People laughed when some would say that "One day there will be a TV in every home."! People didn't give up on it and today TV is a huge revenue generator, so shall be the Internet.

Know what causes a Resession, IMO? Talk. The North American economy was doing great until some influential person got nervous because it was going "too good" and so decided to declare that a resession must be on it's way. Hence everyone got nervous, et voila! a resession has started. IMO the decline in high-tech and "dot-com" industry was started the same way.

But that's getting O/T here, the point is that the internet is not dead, F1 is not dead and Atlas F1 is NOT DEAD! (My left arm IS almost dead as this kid is getting heavy!) Atlas F1 needs new ideas and we definately have the brain-power resources available to us, so lets do it! My "thinking cap" is already on, comon everyone, let's revolutionalize the way business is done on the Internet!!!

[Jackman]

1. put out merchandise - people have been clamouring for it for ever. T shirts, mousemats, coffee mugs, whatever.

2. go into print - it may seem a backward step putting out a magazine, but nerve.com did it, and it sells.

3. best of books ie. a compilation of various writers articles. Mitch McCann, Karl L, whoever under an atlas presents logo.

4. get a marketing person in to boost ad revenues - editors do not make the best revenue raisers, as their thought processes don't usually work towards gaining funds, but rather to more literary thoughts.

These are things that I'm surprised haven't already happened.

[HighTower]

The regionality of the membership seems to me to be the big stumbling blook here i.e. why would an Australian company pay for access to the full membership when they are only try to advertise to the Australian segment.
I am not fully conversive on the ways and hows of the internet but Hotmail manage to do it. I opened my hotmail account in Mexico but because I entered Australia as my country all the banners I get are for Australian links and when I logout I get taken to an Australian site. I know MSN is much bigger and has more resources than Atlas F1.
But I can not help but feel that better targeted advertising would be a step forward.
Also Merchandising must seriously be concidered as a source of revenue.

HT

[tallguy]

merchandise seem like a good idea if you capture only 10% of the claimed readership there would be some decent profit.

[Isamu]

Yeah like when autorace became the official PR office for Jordan Honda

I've never seen anything on Autorace to prove this statement Ross.

Would you care to enlighten me!!!!!

I'm glad autorace are still goin beacuse of Jordan and i don't think their integrity has suffered as a result...

[rek]

what about the online magazine business model like www.autospeed.com.au ?

essentially, the basic stuff is free for all, but you pay a 'subscription' for the more exclusive and in-depth articles.

[Joe Fan]

What I would do is utilize the existing channel that Thomas O'Keefe had for the Bernie Ecclestone interview and send Mr. Ecclestone a letter explaining the financial hardship of this site and ask him for a contribution. He has billions of dollars so he should be able to cough up a few Benjamins. It should be in his best interest to do so since this site undoubtably helps promote his sport as well as increase the fanbase for his digital cable idea.

I would also try to contact teams like Ferrari, Jaguar, etc to see if they would be willing to advertise on this site.

[doohanOK]

I doubt Ecclestone would just hand over his money straight up.

Actually, speaking of Ecclestone, what happened to his official F1 website that was apparently in the works?

Surely some of the sponsors from the F1 teams will be eventually sponsoring online.

What about having certain sections of the atlasF1 "presented by e.g. Ford".

regards,
doohanOK.

[StuffedBeaver]

I will pick up one point raised.

Targetted ads!!!

I'm no marketeer but I would guess that the majority of the people on here are in the 20-35 year old age gap (there are notable exceptions no names:) but they know who they are)

The common interests IMO are

Cars, Racing, Food and getting drunk !!!

Is there anyone out there who could come up with a standard mail shot/letter, explaining the demographics of the BB, that Atlas regional representatives could send out to particular companies (I would hold a chat session to get a few members from each region and brainstorm likely companies etc.)

I would suggest all the racing schools such as Silverstone and Brandshatch, maybe a brewery etc.

Also the Atlas merchantise sounds to be a good idea (make sure you make the XXXXXXXL

[The Kanisteri]

If AtlasF1 will be turn pay-per-view I will say goodbye!
Sorry, but I can't personally afford anything extra, exspecially web-pages.

AtlasF1 is very great page nad commynity and I don't want to loose it. I agree with some readers to turn Bernie Ecclestone.
I don't think he want to get a rid the overall best Formula1 webbage in the internet. He probaply can share few of his money for AtlasF1 supporting.

(sorry for poor language but I must write this very fast because time, must hurry!)

[Witt]

If Bernie were to help out this site, say, he could do a Mercedes and ask Atlas to "Badge" their site as the "official FIA Formula One" site.

BUT,

If somebody as powerful as he were paying this sites bills, then don't ever expect to see a bad word against the guy in any articles or our beloved bernie bitching sessions on the BB.

imagine this at the bottom of your post.

[Edited by Bernie]

Targeting the sponsors who are already sponsoring F1 could be the way to go. We are already their target audience, so the demographics already fit. There still remains the threat of "cash-for-comment" and [edited by Mr Morris], etc, appearing at the bottom of out post, but it still sounds to me like the best option.

Autosport.com currently run Volvo adds on their site, they don't really annoy me because they allow the option to skip them, and at the same time i have become aware of their product because i want to know what i am skipping. That site is no-where near as good as Atlas, but because of their long history in print, they are able to easily convince the big companies to sponsor their site. Perhaps Paul can use the visiting statistics of this site as his pitch, because it sounds like more people come here than Autosport for sure.

[brett_sequeira]

Well i must say i was really sad when i read the letter. Well here in india we dont get f1 on the national networks. we get F1 on pay tv so well we kinda all converge at a pals place to watch it. i rely on atlasf1 to watch all the happenings. being a newbie to f1 just 2 years old atlasf1 has taught me a lot especially the technical aspects of the game.
well i have no money but i have a suggestion. you must be having a database of suscribers, the same can be used to send emails containing all the news to all of us. this is cheaper than running a web site. all it requires is a good mail program then one copy can be made and sent to all the suscribers.
me thinks it is cheaper than a full site, this measure can be done till the bad times pass, once the good days are back and the cash register is ringing then we can have the pleasure of having a site back.
well is my suggestion is silly im sorry, just trying to help. us guys in india will miss this place.

[babbel]

brett_sequeira you make it sounds like Atlasf1 is going to shut down which is absolutly not the case

[Ross Stonefeld]

if it has to go pay-per-view it might as well shut down

[Nomad]

Considering that F1 Racing borrowed the idea of the Alternative Championship from Marcel's article, is it not possible for Atlas to sell it's copyrighted articles to printed magazines?
Take the technical series for instance, that is not a time dependent article. Internet is not yet so widespread that everyone has it and the time delay for print would still mean that Atlas had the articles first

[Uncle Davy]

Excuse me if I go on a rant here, but...

Howzabout charging service fees to all the whineybutts who keep asking for extra bells and whistles on Atlas but don't want to pony up any dinero?

Frankly, I found the AtlasF1 I joined in 1999 quite satisfying and simple to navigate. Since then, the additional fora were welcome, expanded news service has been wonderful; I have had my reservations about the utility of some BB features lately added, even though I have availed myself of some of them, but to each his own.

I have to wonder, though, if we, as members, have marginalized the creative forces behind this site into tech slaves and service providers, ignoring the fact that they were F1 aficianados foremost.

I think some posters on Atlas are ungrateful children who want instant gratification, and then damn those who won't supply it...

...and then get pissy when reminded that somone has to pay for it...

But then, that's just my opinion.

Thanks,

Paul, Biranet, and all the Atlas people...