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Stewart wearing Clark's helmet at Goodwood?


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#1 Spa65

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 20:52

While watching a summary of the Goodwood Festival of Speed in 2010, there is a piece on Jackie Stewart driving Jim Clark's 1965 Indy 500 winning Lotus 38 up the hill. As I remember, Stewart says he was wearing Clark's Indy race-winning helmet on that occasion.

What I can't understand is that Clark only appeared to have two helmets between about 1961 and 1968. I distinctly remember Raymond Baxter commenting during the 1964 French Grand Prix at Rouen that Clark was wearing the new helmet he had acquired at Indianapolis that year. That would be the dark blue Bell with the detachable white peak that he used until that fateful day at Hockenheim. Presumably it was not seen again.

His earlier Grand Prix helmet was dark with an integrated peak of the same colour. That doesn't seem to be the helmet Stewart was wearing either.

So what was the history of the helmet Stewart was wearing?

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#2 Doug Nye

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 23:58

I believe the real story is that - after being invited to drive the car at the Festival - JYS thought it would be a fitting gesture of respect for his old friend and mentor to wear a Clark-style helmet. He asked several interested people their opinion, and I believe there was a strong concensus in favour. He contacted Bell who made him a Clark-style helmet especially for the occasion, and - as I understand it - that is the helmet he wore.

DCN

#3 Spa65

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 00:47

Thanks Doug, that makes sense.

S.

#4 ktrhe

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:34

Here is a pic when Stewart was wearing a Clark style helmet in 2010
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#5 Alan Cox

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:31

Interesting story, Doug. But surely the peak on the Stewart/Goodwood helmet is too 'flat'?
http://www.flickr.co...ica/4622234801/
As an aside, when did Jim beginning wearing a Buco helmet, which he used in the latter stages of his career?

#6 Jean L

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 13:44

The report of the Grand Prix de Monaco 1964 in Sport Auto starts by "Displaying an unusual green helmet, Jim Clark ..."

#7 mfd

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 16:47

Interesting story, Doug. But surely the peak on the Stewart/Goodwood helmet is too 'flat'?
http://www.flickr.co...ica/4622234801/
As an aside, when did Jim beginning wearing a Buco helmet, which he used in the latter stages of his career?

Buco appeared in 1967. Personally (& I'm the pickiest of most) I don't think it mattered if the Stewart version at the FoS was a bit off. He made the gesture :up: :up:

#8 bill p

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 16:57

"Red Herring" time !! Pictured in Silver crash helmet for Indy PR photo for 1963 event in Lotus 29

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Edited by bill p, 11 January 2013 - 16:59.


#9 Spa65

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 18:01

As an aside, when did Jim beginning wearing a Buco helmet, which he used in the latter stages of his career?


I never noticed any change of helmet in 1967. Did the Buco look almost identical to the BEll? I know he broke the white peak about that time and replaced it with a white peak with a couple of flag symbols on it, but I always thought he still used the same Bell (with the side rubber cut away for his goggles). Anyone got pictures of his Buco?

#10 Doug Nye

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 18:19

Interesting story, Doug. But surely the peak on the Stewart/Goodwood helmet is too 'flat'?


I said that Bell made him a helmet. I did not express any opinion on whether or not their reproduction was accurate.

DCN

#11 mfd

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 19:33

I never noticed any change of helmet in 1967. Did the Buco look almost identical to the BEll? I know he broke the white peak about that time and replaced it with a white peak with a couple of flag symbols on it, but I always thought he still used the same Bell (with the side rubber cut away for his goggles). Anyone got pictures of his Buco?


Look for the extra ribbing on the rubber trim & the straps secured with twin rivet heads each side

Edited by mfd, 11 January 2013 - 19:36.


#12 Spa65

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 13:35

What I can't understand is that Clark only appeared to have two helmets between about 1961 and 1968.


I appear to have underestimated the number of helmets Clark used over that period. I never knew about the Buco, mainly because it looked so like the Bell, even apparently in the same colours. I can see the difference now in the shots from 1968, where the side rubber has not been cut away, though it was done on the Bell.

I also saw a picture in Andrew Tulloch's 2008 book "Jim Clark. Grand Prix Legend" (a real bargain I stumbled across in a high street cut price bookshop) showing the start line at the 1962 South African Grand Prix, where there is yet another helmet. It looks like a Bell with no peak, but too early to be the Indy helmet. So that would mean he used four helmets in his GP career. Small numbers compared to today's standards, but more laden with history and valuable as a result.

So it seems to me that JC's most famous helmet might still be around, and perhaps JSY could have used the real thing at Goodwood. What might have happened to it? I've never seen it in any visits to the Donnington or Duns museums. Perhaps it suffered a more mundane fate, e.g. going to a charity shop in Bermuda when Clark's flat there was taken over. Who knows? Would be interested to know if anyone can cast any light on where it may have gone.

#13 Alan Cox

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 13:55

Buco appeared in 1967. Personally (& I'm the pickiest of most) I don't think it mattered if the Stewart version at the FoS was a bit off. He made the gesture :up: :up:

I said that Bell made him a helmet. I did not express any opinion on whether or not their reproduction was accurate.

Fair comments, both. It just occured to me that, as Bell were recreating a helmet, they would have been able to match the peak. In any event, nice of them to take the trouble and for JYS to think of it.

The comment posted in post #10 of this thread might be of interest:
http://www.slotcaril...ead.php?t=20680

#14 mfd

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 15:18

It just occured to me that, as Bell were recreating a helmet, they would have been able to match the peak.

It's not as easy as that Alan. I don't imagine they were given much time  ;) Bell haven't made a jet type helmet with a snap on peak since the early 80's and the short peaks change hands on that auction site for serious money...


#15 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 19:57

The thought that Jim might have simply given a helmet away is not far fetched...

Max Stahl was given his race suit at the conclusion of the Tasman Cup race at Longford, this was the suit in which he'd won Indianapolis. It was a very much prized possession of Max's until it disappeared one day.

The point is that Jim simply gave the suit to him, he was going to throw it away IIRC.

#16 Doug Nye

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 20:51

Jimmy gave a set of his pale-blue Dunlop overalls to Andrew Ferguson, late manager of Team Lotus. Andrew also had a yellow race suit from Ronnie Peterson, which I think had been left in his hands when he was having it laundered? Barbro did not want it back after Ronnie's tragic death. When Andrew suffered a massive stroke and died suddenly his widow Jackie asked us at Brooks - now Bonhams - to offer both suits for sale by auction. I collected them from Jackie to pass them on.

Now the trade in racing drivers' memorabilia at this level is fine, so far as I am concerned, when it involves letters, photos, trophies and suchlike. But I have never been very comfortable about the trade in helmets, gloves, overalls and suchlike intimate apparel. For one night the late Jimmy's overalls and the late Ronnie's race suit both lay here in our house...

Now I cannot rationalise this in any way, but as long as they were here I felt very uncomfortable about their presence...almost sacriligious - maybe I'd been just too interested in these two tremendous drivers' lives, and careers, and capabilities. Or maybe, considering several other 'odd' experiences, I'm sensitive to influences that science doesn't yet understand... Or maybe I'm just a terribly precious old softy.

But when I handed over those items next day, it came as a tremendous relief that they had gone elsewhere...and next night we slept well.

And by the way, I believe Dario Franchiti preserves one of Jimmy's actual crash helmets.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 12 January 2013 - 20:54.


#17 Wirra

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 20:52

Any excuse to post this photo.

Posted Image


#18 fer312t

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 02:56

It's not as easy as that Alan. I don't imagine they were given much time ;) Bell haven't made a jet type helmet with a snap on peak since the early 80's and the short peaks change hands on that auction site for serious money...



Do we know, was there any noteworthy distinction between Bell 'Racing' helmets worn in F1 in the 1960's, and the Bell 'motorcycle' helmets (the ubiquitous 1954 design model 500) that any normal person could buy off the shelf? I ask because I see Bell now makes a modern version of the 500 which is dimensionally very similar to the original and importantly, has the low profile padding (and available white peak.) It's quite inexpensive and was thinking it might make for nice poor man's tribute display if painted and paired with some M1944 goggles. :)

Here's a good shot of the 1967 Buco by the way...
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And also Jim wearing a Les Leston badged helmet in 1966(?)

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#19 Alan Cox

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:47

And also Jim wearing a Les Leston badged helmet in 1966(?)

I've never knowingly noticed him in an LL helmet before - Looks like he's in the Lotus 43 (H16), so it would be '66.

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#20 DeweyAIA

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 16:03

"Red Herring" time !! Pictured in Silver crash helmet for Indy PR photo for 1963 event in Lotus 29


resizeofimsc6343.jpg

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I always wondered about the silver helmet, Bill P, could it have been a borrowed helmet from teammate Dan Gurney for practice or qualifying?  I believe photos from the actual 1963 Indy 500 show Clark in his typical Scotish blue helmet.  I have also noticed that the hue of blue on Clark's helmet is not only the same as the blue in the Scotish flag, but also the same blue which dominates the Clark family crest.  I wonder if the blue in the helmet was a tribute to the Clark family or Scotland?  Or both?  Do you know Doug Nye? 

 

In reference to Jackie Stewart's replica helmet, I'm sure Doug Nye likely has the story correct.  The visor was a bad copy of Clark's and the visual effort to recall Clark behind the wheel failed, but it was a wonderful gesture from Jackie to Jim.  This thread got me wondering... I know Clark suffered a severe head injury at Hockenhiem, so I'm sure his helmet did too.  Does anyone the whereabouts of that final Clark helmet?  Not to be morbid and I don't necessarily want to see it, but I was just curious.  I understand that someone from classic Team Lotus has rebuilt Clark's fatal no.1 Lotus 48.  Is that true?  If so, where is that being kept?  I can't imagine the emotons during restoration which must have run through Clark's mechanic, who I have heard rebuilt it.  It grabs me in the gut just thinking about what that process must have been like and I am only a guy from Vermont who still misses his boyhood hero 45 years later.   



#21 DeweyAIA

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 16:06

Any excuse to post this photo.

img032pl5.jpg

Was this a photo of Clark after his last victory in Australia in March 1968 just weeks before his death?



#22 Glengavel

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 20:25

I always wondered about the silver helmet, Bill P, could it have been a borrowed helmet from teammate Dan Gurney for practice or qualifying?  I believe photos from the actual 1963 Indy 500 show Clark in his typical Scotish blue helmet.  I have also noticed that the hue of blue on Clark's helmet is not only the same as the blue in the Scotish flag, but also the same blue which dominates the Clark family crest.  I wonder if the blue in the helmet was a tribute to the Clark family or Scotland?  Or both?  Do you know Doug Nye? 

 

In reference to Jackie Stewart's replica helmet, I'm sure Doug Nye likely has the story correct.  The visor was a bad copy of Clark's and the visual effort to recall Clark behind the wheel failed, but it was a wonderful gesture from Jackie to Jim.  This thread got me wondering... I know Clark suffered a severe head injury at Hockenhiem, so I'm sure his helmet did too.  Does anyone the whereabouts of that final Clark helmet?  Not to be morbid and I don't necessarily want to see it, but I was just curious.  I understand that someone from classic Team Lotus has rebuilt Clark's fatal no.1 Lotus 48.  Is that true?  If so, where is that being kept?  I can't imagine the emotons during restoration which must have run through Clark's mechanic, who I have heard rebuilt it.  It grabs me in the gut just thinking about what that process must have been like and I am only a guy from Vermont who still misses his boyhood hero 45 years later.   

 

I imagine Clark's family would have received his personal effects, including his helmet. I have read somewhere that Chapman ordered the remains of the 48 destroyed - cut up and sent for scrap.



#23 mfd

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 22:44

As it was explained to me last month, whatever the family had was passed under the Trust to be maintained & displayed in the room in Duns, the bulk of which are trophies & it doesn't include a helmet, although there is one or two suits of the early period but not from 66 67 or 68.



#24 f1steveuk

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 12:17

I don't know the details, and I don't really want to know them, so a simple yes or no will surfice, but would a full face helmet have made any difference on that day, baring in mind the construction of the first Bell Stars was little different from open face helmets of the time. Just an idle thought.



#25 JtP2

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 12:23

To put the silver helmet to rest. I asked Graham Gauld when he showed the photo at a JC evening, but so far he has not replied to this thread. Bell supplied the helmet to JC just before the photo was taken and there simply had been no time to paint it



#26 mfd

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 12:41

I doubt it Steve



#27 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 07:49

More like it was a loaner while they were painting him a new one.
Or maybe just evaluate it.

#28 f1steveuk

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 09:19

Thank you Mike



#29 mfd

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 13:43

From what I can see Alan, the Leston badged helmet was only in 1966, before that always a Bell & afterwards throughout 1967 & into 68 it was a Buco



#30 JtP2

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 14:29

Please note. The photo of the 29 at Indy is not simply a PR photo. It is the official Indy photo which was/ still is taken of every competing car. They are all taken on the same day and thus the helmet arriving unpainted and used for the photo is under time constraints. Which btw is exactly what GG told me.

 

It is highly unlikely that Clark's overalls from Indy 65 were used in the Tasman series in 68. The Tasman overalls, like most Firestone overalls of the period have a red stripe on the sleeves. The 65 Indy overalls have no stripe. Clark would have worn the white Firestone overalls at Indy 65 and then returned to Dunlop blue for Spa and the rest of the season  A driver at that level would have worn the overalls of the tyre supplier and probably provided by the supplier . The only case where this would not have happened, but didn't, was the German GP of 66. Lotus fitted Dunlops to Clark's car as it was wet and the Dunlop wet was considerably better than the Firestone, the days before B36. Firestone then pointed out to Chapman the terms of their contract and Firestones were refitted. The Dunlop contract of the period allowed for the fitting of other brands of tyre if the team felt they were superior and Lotus mistakenly thought the same applied to the Firestone contract. 

 

From an odd thought, just went and checked the Jim Clark room photos and the Indy 65 overalls are in the room. Go through the door, turn hard right and they are in the cabinet on the right just before reaching the back wall.


Edited by JtP2, 19 December 2013 - 14:34.


#31 B Squared

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 14:36

Please note. The photo of the 29 at Indy is not simply a PR photo. It is the official Indy photo which was/ still is taken of every competing car. They are all taken on the same day and thus the helmet arriving unpainted and used for the photo is under time constraints. Which btw is exactly what GG told me.

 

 

Small point of correction, the photos are taken after the respective drivers qualifying run. In 1963 there were four qualifying days. The photo in question was taken on Pole Day - the first of the four dates that qualifying was held.



#32 JtP2

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 14:54

That would explain the crowd and as you say would have to be pole day as Clark started 5th on the grid.



#33 fer312t

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 23:29

Clark in his cream colored Lew Hinchman 1-piece overalls at Indy '63.

 

ib0WzWSjQfILKv.jpg


Edited by fer312t, 19 December 2013 - 23:30.


#34 JtP2

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 00:14

Is that Jabby Crombac in the maroon blazer?



#35 Macca

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 14:22

No, Len Terry.

 

Paul M



#36 DeweyAIA

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 00:57

Small point of correction, the photos are taken after the respective drivers qualifying run. In 1963 there were four qualifying days. The photo in question was taken on Pole Day - the first of the four dates that qualifying was held.

Silver helmet mystery solved!  This would also explain why Clark's helmet was the typical blue in the actual 1963 race.  What a great forum this is.  It is nice to see the respect everyone gives Clark and the sport all these years later.