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2014 Power Units


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#651 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 03:23

Indeed, and nobody's even heard a car racing yet.

Turbo 6 doesn't sound as good as V10 or V12 -- it's just a fact.

Turbo V6 can sound *OK* but it just doesn't match the sound of V10 or V12. It just DOES NOT - IMPOSSIBLE!  ;)

Indycars sound *OK* but that is all - the Indy turbo V8s sounded better, and the classic V12 F1 cars sounded better again.

Turbo V6 Indy
Turbo V8 Indy/CART

Turbo V6 F1
V12 F1

Honestly - any factual person would say V6 DOES NOT sound as good. :)

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#652 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 03:28

Non-sequiter. It is not the 60's

It's fine the Lotus-Climax was superior BUT...

The also-rans down the grid such as the Honda works team were still allowed to compete with their screaming 1.5L V12s!

Now, it's plainly not permitted. :well:

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 06 August 2013 - 03:29.


#653 Lazy

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 06:34

Turbo 6 doesn't sound as good as V10 or V12 -- it's just a fact.

I suppose that's a subjective opinion, to me the MP4/4 sounds a lot better than any of the V10/8's :)

#654 7MGTEsup

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 08:50

Reading this thread makes it sound like for a lot of you the sound is 90% of F1. I feel sorry that you can't look past the sound and look at all the other things that the sport has to offer. If sound is very imortant to you I would suggest watching drag racing as any formula 1 car from any decade sounds like a moped next to a top fueler.

#655 EthanM

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 09:04

Reading this thread makes it sound like for a lot of you the sound is 90% of F1. I feel sorry that you can't look past the sound and look at all the other things that the sport has to offer. If sound is very imortant to you I would suggest watching drag racing as any formula 1 car from any decade sounds like a moped next to a top fueler.


if F1 disappears tomorrow the one thing I will remember about it will be the sight and sound of an F1 car coming from Tabac into La Piscine. Not the ceramic valves in the engine, not how efficient their KERS/ERS was, not how engine A developed x bhp with 60lt/hour of fuel while engine B needed 65 lt/hour. Especially when I know this whole engine mess was a stupid plan by Mosley to get one specific manufacturer involved in F1. And that manufacturer, predictably, dictated terms and in the end said no thanks, and left all other manufacturers with 150mil bills developing, like it or not, irrelevant technologies FOR THEM.

#656 zdzisio

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 09:11

These things sound like high performance leaf blowers.


For a good reason that for now they are simply that. And they won't sound different until bolted to a car, with exhaust attached to them. We have to wait. Deal wit that.

Edited by zdzisio, 06 August 2013 - 09:12.


#657 EthanM

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 09:22

For a good reason that for now they are simply that. And they won't sound different until bolted to a car, with exhaust attached to them. We have to wait. Deal wit that.



excellent, while you wait listen to a current V8 being bench tested





#658 PayasYouRace

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:04

If F1 disappears tomorrow I'll remember the epic overtakes, the inch perfect pole laps, the emotional wins, the blink-and-you-miss-them pitstops, the terrifying crashes which drivers walked away from, the beautiful cars and their striking paint schemes, and if I think back really hard, the one time I was lucky enough to attend a Grand Prix and had my ears assaulted and couldn't even talk about the race with my fellow spectators. Sure it was an impressive sound, but it only plays a small part in the overall enjoyment I've taken from the sport over a couple of decades.

There's more to the sport than that sound the cars make. These new engines and their associated power systems are really quite fascinating from a technical point of view, and it will provide a new influence on the competition. The current engines have been the same for years, and I'm bored of them,.

#659 seahawk

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:07

The sound did not interest me since all engines used the same basic concept. The glory days where in-line-4 Turbos, V6 Turbos, V8s and what else mixed. Even the mix of V12, V10, V8 was good.

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#660 Mrluke

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 15:46

Honestly - any factual person would say V6 DOES NOT sound as good. :)


No. You are making a qualitative assessment based on your interpretation of how an F1 car "should" sound. There is no fact there at all.

Personally I love the way a certain high powered straight 6 turbo sounds on full chat, the way it just sucks up like a jet engine and ####s off into the distance. Much prefer that to the motorbikes we have at the moment.

The best sounding car on the grid is the safety car.

The 80s turbos sounded awesome and judging by the figures being banded about by the engine manufacturers already (900bhp!) and that will be a conservative estimate of their first "draft" of the power unit. You can see the difference it makes by how early the car is shifting up on the sample Monza lap.

They have so much more power that most of the people that have watched the video think the gearbox is broken rather than just early upshifts...

The biggest thing I would like to hear in f1 is variety between different engines / cars rather than every single one sounding the same.

Edited by Mrluke, 06 August 2013 - 15:47.


#661 toofast

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 16:02

No. You are making a qualitative assessment based on your interpretation of how an F1 car "should" sound. There is no fact there at all.

Personally I love the way a certain high powered straight 6 turbo sounds on full chat, the way it just sucks up like a jet engine and ####s off into the distance. Much prefer that to the motorbikes we have at the moment.

The best sounding car on the grid is the safety car.

The 80s turbos sounded awesome and judging by the figures being banded about by the engine manufacturers already (900bhp!) and that will be a conservative estimate of their first "draft" of the power unit. You can see the difference it makes by how early the car is shifting up on the sample Monza lap.

They have so much more power that most of the people that have watched the video think the gearbox is broken rather than just early upshifts...

The biggest thing I would like to hear in f1 is variety between different engines / cars rather than every single one sounding the same.


Obviously, some people like sound of a vacuum cleaner, some people don't especially on Sunday afternoon. :D

#662 GlenP

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 19:53

some people geek out on the tech, other people, myself included, don't much care about the tech, they geek out by their senses when they actually go to an actual race to watch real cars instead of you know know consuming the tech on TV

This you must geek out on the tech cause I say so pov annoys me.

Hey - I'm not saying what you should and should not be interested in. Go for it. I do reserve the right to chuckle if I think it's a bit silly though. Feel free to laugh at my silly opinion - what with me getting all interested in the actual racing and all. It is pretty likely that we'll get some contrast between engines next year - could easily re-shuffle the order among the teams - personally I find that a more relevant prospect than the noise…

#663 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 20:23

so the teams are saying that they think that the new engines will produce more power than they first anticipated, could they get up to 900hp? That would be quite something.

#664 Goron3

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 20:44

so the teams are saying that they think that the new engines will produce more power than they first anticipated, could they get up to 900hp? That would be quite something.


Yeah, looks like their straight line speed could be up to 30kph more as well. Monza will be something special.

#665 scheivlak

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 20:49

Honestly - any factual person would say V6 DOES NOT sound as good. :)

It's a good thing "factual persons" don't exist - in fact  ;)

#666 senna da silva

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 20:52

No offense, but could we keep this thread for the actual technical stuff and move all those "these sound horrible, have some Youtube videos of what i consider to be real F1 engines"-posts to the Horrible 2014 sound thread? Now that we have two threads, it seems pointless to have the same things in both of them.


:up:

#667 bauss

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 21:21

so the teams are saying that they think that the new engines will produce more power than they first anticipated, could they get up to 900hp? That would be quite something.


any link for this?

#668 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 00:09

any link for this?

Pirelli pushing for wider rear tyres - BBC F1

#669 Lennat

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 00:33

Yeah, looks like their straight line speed could be up to 30kph more as well. Monza will be something special.


Really? That would mean similar to the late V10 era, right? Back then they actually had 900+ horsepower on tap ALL THE time, and the cars weighed 605 kilos. :)

#670 akshay380

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 05:29

Any chance of these new engines sounding anywhere similar to MP4/4 like in below video? I am all for it if thats the case!

McLaren Honda MP4/4 (1988 late) @ TwinLink Motegi , 11 July 2012

#671 mlsnoopy

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 05:53

Pirelli pushing for wider rear tyres - BBC F1


Amus has reported that Mercedes wants wider tyres but Ferrari is against it.

#672 Lemans

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 05:59

Any chance of these new engines sounding anywhere similar to MP4/4 like in below video? I am all for it if thats the case!

McLaren Honda MP4/4 (1988 late) @ TwinLink Motegi , 11 July 2012


I never get tired of that video. One of my favorites. :up: :up: :up:
I feel so lucky I got too see that car race in the flesh.

The new engines might sound similar, hopefully. The main differences are single turbo and 100cc more displacement on the 2014 units. I'm not sure what effect that will have on sound. The new units will also rev higher and have substantially more power. I think that particular Honda engine (RA-168E) 'only' made about 650 bhp in race trim.


Edited by Lemans, 08 August 2013 - 06:28.


#673 undersquare

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 07:13

so the teams are saying that they think that the new engines will produce more power than they first anticipated, could they get up to 900hp? That would be quite something.

There must be a bit of concern about this behind the scenes. With less drag too. Apart from the safety circuits will be too small for passing again.

#674 handel

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 08:07

As much as I would love the new units to turn out to be insanely powerful I really don't think they will be. There are also plenty of knobs to twiddle as it were in case they turn out to be such as knocking fuel flow rate down, or adjusting turbo boost (the former makes more sense given the green aspect)

Does anyone know if there are any measures to limit boost etc in Quali or do you reckon we could see a return to the times where teams crank the engines up and make them saner for the race? I guess the fuel flow limits still apply in all sessions so maybe I've answered my question here!

#675 saudoso

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 11:03

Yep, you answered your question. With the fuel limit there is just so much are needed, not worth pushing more into the engine.

#676 Kalmake

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 11:43

In the video posted in this thread Scarbs speculated that they will run near 15000rpm in qualifying to get every possible hp out of it. While in the race it would be better stay close to the low end of the max flow range, 10000rpm.

#677 maverick69

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 12:04

In the video posted in this thread Scarbs speculated that they will run near 15000rpm in qualifying to get every possible hp out of it. While in the race it would be better stay close to the low end of the max flow range, 10000rpm.


A bit like the last turbo era then!


#678 Mrluke

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 13:17

Really? That would mean similar to the late V10 era, right? Back then they actually had 900+ horsepower on tap ALL THE time, and the cars weighed 605 kilos. :)


It is going to be all of the time. Kers wont be a little push button anymore it will be controlled by the ECU to work throughout the lap. Probably as anti lag mostly but can also be used to boost peak HP say for long straights and particularly in qualy. :)

So far the teams, engine suppliers and pirelli are expecting 900hp and the armchair experts are expecting 650 ...because it has fewer cylinders. Be fun to see who is right ;)

#679 F.M.

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 13:34

Honda's LMP1 V6, direct injection, central turbo engine. Probably shares some F1 tech.
http://www.racetechm...e-revealed.html

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#680 maverick69

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 14:07

Honda's LMP1 V6, direct injection, central turbo engine. Probably shares some F1 tech.
http://www.racetechm...e-revealed.html


I doubt it. Despite citing the tie-up with Honda and Magneti Marelli as a prelude to developing the F1 systems, I was told by some folk on here that there is no way that some Yank, Itye, or Pom will have anything to do with the F1 engine...... And all the work will be done in a secret cave below the Honda HQ in Japan.......

Edited by maverick69, 08 August 2013 - 14:08.


#681 V3TT3L

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 14:09

Honda's LMP1 V6, direct injection, central turbo engine. Probably shares some F1 tech.
http://www.racetechm...e-revealed.html

Posted Image


#682 Lemans

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 14:11

I doubt it. Despite citing the tie-up with Honda and Magneti Marelli as a prelude to developing the F1 systems, I was told by some folk on here that there is no way that some Yank, Itye, or Pom will have anything to do with the F1 engine...... And all the work will be done in a secret cave below the Honda HQ in Japan.......


...with a tunnel to the MTC linked by hi-speed Maglev train.



#683 maverick69

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 14:20

...with a tunnel to the MTC linked by hi-speed Maglev train.


:lol:

#684 bauss

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 14:55

Pirelli pushing for wider rear tyres - BBC F1


thx... quite interesting to see that cars could be faster despite more stringent regs. This part of F1 is so fascinating...engineers find a way

#685 Juggles

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 15:02

thx... quite interesting to see that cars could be faster despite more stringent regs. This part of F1 is so fascinating...engineers find a way


There was supposed to be a decision on the wider tyres last week (according to that Benson article) but I didn't hear anything. Do we know the outcome yet or are we still waiting?

#686 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 16:10

We're still waiting for an outcome regarding the wider tyre issue. Imagine they chuck out 900hp+, Monza qualifying would go back to being truly exhilarating with cars reaching 360kp/h.

#687 toofast

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 16:54

We're still waiting for an outcome regarding the wider tyre issue. Imagine they chuck out 900hp+, Monza qualifying would go back to being truly exhilarating with cars reaching 360kp/h.


I prefer they struggle with rear traction, more fun to watch.


#688 Goron3

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 17:48

I prefer they struggle with rear traction, more fun to watch.


With the amount of torque they will be producing, they certainly will have loose ends coming out of the chicanes!

#689 TooTroublesome

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 19:51

Having never heard a F1 car in real life, the 2013 to 2014 comparison video scared me so much that I decided it is finally time to watch a Grand Prix in real life.

Ill be flying over to the Austin Grand Prix for a week, turn 3, on me own! Haha can't wait.


#690 F.M.

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 20:04

We're still waiting for an outcome regarding the wider tyre issue. Imagine they chuck out 900hp+, Monza qualifying would go back to being truly exhilarating with cars reaching 360kp/h.

If they have chosen an 8th gear that high before the season begins. Remember they have to select one gearing for the complete season.

#691 quaint

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 20:12

If they have chosen an 8th gear that high before the season begins. Remember they have to select one gearing for the complete season.


... which they can adjust once during 2014. But sure, that concern applies from 2015, at least. I'd expect a conservative choice to be a relatively long 8th gear which may not be used on all tracks.

#692 GlenP

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 20:33

If they have chosen an 8th gear that high before the season begins. Remember they have to select one gearing for the complete season.

That's why they have 8 ratios though… no need to use all 8 at every circuit.

#693 tkulla

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 20:53

There was supposed to be a decision on the wider tyres last week (according to that Benson article) but I didn't hear anything. Do we know the outcome yet or are we still waiting?


Whatever happened to the idea of going to larger wheels like those used at Le Mans series? That would open up potential alternate tyre suppliers in the future.

#694 undersquare

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 21:35

Whatever happened to the idea of going to larger wheels like those used at Le Mans series? That would open up potential alternate tyre suppliers in the future.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Teams said oh gosh it's too expensive, but they just spend the money on something else.

#695 Wuzak

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 23:36

It is going to be all of the time. Kers wont be a little push button anymore it will be controlled by the ECU to work throughout the lap. Probably as anti lag mostly but can also be used to boost peak HP say for long straights and particularly in qualy. :)

So far the teams, engine suppliers and pirelli are expecting 900hp and the armchair experts are expecting 650 ...because it has fewer cylinders. Be fun to see who is right ;)


Somewhere between 600 and 650hp is expected from the internal combustion engine. 161hp (120kW) will come from the ERS-K. That is a power output between 761 and 811hp all up. 900ho is not going to happen.

#696 Tommay

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 09:36

Can anyone explain how the turbos can be used to create more downforce? I heard that they could possibly be able to 'suck' the front wing

Edit: IPhone's aren't very good for spelling and grammar ;)

Edited by Tommay, 09 August 2013 - 10:04.


#697 dau

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 09:49

Somewhere between 600 and 650hp is expected from the internal combustion engine. 161hp (120kW) will come from the ERS-K. That is a power output between 761 and 811hp all up. 900ho is not going to happen.

It's not like we'll ever get accurate information on that anyway. The question some people are interested in is whether F1 will have significantly less power than with the current V8s or not. And from all we've heard so far, there doesn't seem to be much cause for concern in that area.

#698 Tommay

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 11:18

It's not like we'll ever get accurate information on that anyway. The question some people are interested in is whether F1 will have significantly less power than with the current V8s or not. And from all we've heard so far, there doesn't seem to be much cause for concern in that area.


Now if they could just sort out the sound all would be good!

#699 DrProzac

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 12:01

The combined power will not be bigger than what the current engines provide, unfortunately. I don't see it being significantly bigger in qualifying - the fuel flow limit will prevent that. They could drop it for qualy, it would be fun..

Can anyone explain how the turbos can be used to create more downforce? I heard that they could possibly be able to 'suck' the front wing

Edit: IPhone's aren't very good for spelling and grammar ;)

Turbo sucking a front wing, that's a wild theory :)
Turbo engines are better for diffuser blowing, but with the current rules there's not that much room for it.

Edited by DrProzac, 10 August 2013 - 12:03.


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#700 Ali_G

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 16:36

I can't workout how people prefer V10 to V12 sound.

If the V12s had been revving as high as the V10s in the early 2000s, they would have sounded better than the V10s. They would prob have revved higher than the V10s too.