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2014 Power Units


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#751 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 21:21

I'm just watching a bit of the GP2 feature race from Abu Dhabi on my PC via headphones and couldn't help but notice how very much nicer the GP2 engine note is than the current F1 cars. Yes, they are both V8s and the yes the GP2 engines rev much lower but the note, thrap and purr of the 4.0 litre V8 in the GP2 cars from the on board cam is far superior to the tinny, unbalanced sound from the 2.4 litre V8 in the current F1 cars. I won't miss the 2.4 V8s one bit. There appears to be truth in the American saying "no replacement for displacement".

 

Having done a bit of research on the saying here: http://www.pistonhea...i=20&mid=0&nmt=

 

Had to laugh at this regarding turbos:

 

"The quote should be "there's no replacement for being able to shovel a lot of air into your engine very quickly"; but that doesn't have quite the same ring to it. "

 

Guess I'll be in for a big disappointment next year.


Edited by Tenmantaylor, 02 November 2013 - 21:26.


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#752 Clatter

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 21:56

I'm just watching a bit of the GP2 feature race from Abu Dhabi on my PC via headphones and couldn't help but notice how very much nicer the GP2 engine note is than the current F1 cars. Yes, they are both V8s and the yes the GP2 engines rev much lower but the note, thrap and purr of the 4.0 litre V8 in the GP2 cars from the on board cam is far superior to the tinny, unbalanced sound from the 2.4 litre V8 in the current F1 cars. I won't miss the 2.4 V8s one bit. There appears to be truth in the American saying "no replacement for displacement".

 

Having done a bit of research on the saying here: http://www.pistonhea...i=20&mid=0&nmt=

 

Had to laugh at this regarding turbos:

 

"The quote should be "there's no replacement for being able to shovel a lot of air into your engine very quickly"; but that doesn't have quite the same ring to it. "

 

Guess I'll be in for a big disappointment next year.

Listen to them trackside and you wouldn't prefer them. The recording equipment simply does not capture the sound properly.



#753 peroa

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 22:38

Well, I thought that the Porsches are the loudest at the track IMHO.

The F1 cars are also very loud but somehow the noise seems more refined, GP2, GP3 and especially the Porsches seem very raw.



#754 Lemans

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 22:51

 

Listen to them trackside and you wouldn't prefer them. The recording equipment simply does not capture the sound properly.

 

 

Very true. No comparison.

#755 F1ultimate

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 23:42

I agree with the above. The F1 cars are louder on track. Surprisingly the Porsche's are on par when it comes to loudness. TV convey little about the loudness and note of the cars as they approach and as they leave. It's very special.



#756 dau

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 12:20

Found this one on F1technical, courtesy of geraldix:

 

 

According to him, there are rumours Ferrari are testing their V6t at Fiorano using a modified LaFerrari test mule. The people in the thread seem undecided on whether that's a V6t or just a normal V12 with KERS hissing. Thought i'd post it anyway, there are some sound experts here as well after all.


Edited by dau, 29 November 2013 - 12:31.


#757 medeni73

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 12:46

I dont know if its really V6 but it sounds AWESOME :) Much better than those V6 sounds from Mercedes, Renault and Honda :)

 

And for comparison here is sound of LaFerrari

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=uWySSFyReqY


Edited by medeni73, 29 November 2013 - 12:48.


#758 Nobody

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 13:26

Found this one on F1technical, courtesy of geraldix:

 

 

According to him, there are rumours Ferrari are testing their V6t at Fiorano using a modified LaFerrari test mule. The people in the thread seem undecided on whether that's a V6t or just a normal V12 with KERS hissing. Thought i'd post it anyway, there are some sound experts here as well after all.

 

Thats no V12

 



#759 Markn93

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 13:39

Agreed, nobody. No idea if it's a V6 for next year but that is clearly not a V12. 

 

Interesting tweet from Ferrari too yesterday, 

 

Scuderia Ferrari โ€@InsideFerrari

A special testing day at Fiorano: 2014 car shakedown? Un giorno speciale di test a Fiorano: collaudo per il 2014?

 

(of course could be a joke, and I'm inclined to think it is)



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#760 dau

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 13:44

I would agree that it doesn't really sound like a V12 and in my opinion is rather close to what we've heard from Merc and Renault's engines, but who knows what it is. It's not too far fetched to assume they'd test their unit like that and the quite simple air intake on the roof also does make the car look like a test mule, but it could be just generic engine testing as well.

 

c5inHDB.png


Edited by dau, 29 November 2013 - 13:46.


#761 Markn93

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 14:03

That's interesting, The La Ferrari doesn't have an air intake like that, and that is exactly how it would look and where the V6 one would be. Curious.....



#762 BiH

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 14:16

That intake suggets its defenitly not for laferrari.

 

They could very well be testing new f1 engine but what exatcly is the point, v6 turbo probably been on dyno for months.

 

I know there were rumors that the f1 v8 was stuffed in ferrari mule before in 05 to prepare for 06 season.



#763 ArkZ

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 14:18

There were some rumors that Ferrari tested F1 V8 in Enzo, so maybe now V6 turbo in LaFerrari.


Edited by ArkZ, 29 November 2013 - 14:19.


#764 Lennat

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 14:18

Kinda sad to see a road car with an F1 engine that is less powerful than the stock engine it replaced.  ):



#765 syolase

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 14:21

Kinda sad to see a road car with an F1 engine that is less powerful than the stock engine it replaced.  ):

So what? Im pretty sure the next ferrari f1 will be faster than the laferrari with the original engine :)



#766 Markn93

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 14:23

Merc are running at Silverstone today in a 2011 car, they called it a 'driver evaluation' but could be a 2014 engine in there, who knows

 

Longer runs now well underway at Silverstone! #FridayPracticeIsh pic.twitter.com/VE6m8NCrM5


Edited by Markn93, 29 November 2013 - 14:24.


#767 Lennat

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 14:32

So what? Im pretty sure the next ferrari f1 will be faster than the laferrari with the original engine :)

 

It certainly will, no question about that. But I still don't like how the F1 engine is less powerful.



#768 alframsey

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 14:48

These new engines are the most exciting thing to happen to F1 for a long time imo, I can't wait to see them on track :)



#769 muramasa

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 15:02

that ferrari sounds abit too high pitched for a V6, esp at the end of the video where it goes high rev, but at the same time it surely doesnt sound like NA. Not sure. Also dont know if Ferrari has turbo engine or not for road cars, but if that indeed is new V6, then it can be one.


Edited by muramasa, 29 November 2013 - 15:03.


#770 Richard T

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 15:57

Merc are running at Silverstone today in a 2011 car, they called it a 'driver evaluation' but could be a 2014 engine in there, who knows

 

Longer runs now well underway at Silverstone! #FridayPracticeIsh pic.twitter.com/VE6m8NCrM5

 

The pitboard says Jaafar. Jazeman Jaafar, F3 driver sponsored by Petronas... Probably just contract stuff..

 

 

The LaFerrari sounds very interesting



#771 Gorma

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 16:14

Found this one on F1technical, courtesy of geraldix:

 

 

According to him, there are rumours Ferrari are testing their V6t at Fiorano using a modified LaFerrari test mule. The people in the thread seem undecided on whether that's a V6t or just a normal V12 with KERS hissing. Thought i'd post it anyway, there are some sound experts here as well after all.

That's not a V12. Those are turbo and waste gate noises.  There are no mufflers and there is no scoop in La Ferrari. That's definitely the new F1 engine. Wow. 

 

edit. Damn... Almost burned my food on the stove becaus I was listening to the sound all over again with my headset on. :D


Edited by Gorma, 29 November 2013 - 16:24.


#772 maverick69

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 16:28

Holy crap! That sounds like the devil having a shit after a night down the curry house!

Please let it be........

#773 Lazy

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 16:35

I dont know if its really V6 but it sounds AWESOME :) Much better than those V6 sounds from Mercedes, Renault and Honda :)

 

And for comparison here is sound of LaFerrari

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=uWySSFyReqY

Because it's in a car.



#774 Tosh

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 17:22

Holy crap! That sounds like the devil having a shit after a night down the curry house!

Please let it be........

:lol:

 

It's sounds nothing like the trailer or any other video with the car. If V6s sound like that i will be fine with it :D



#775 quasi C

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 18:16

Ferrari are developing a V8TT to go in the next California but, let's face it, that's not what's in that LaFerrari mule. It could be a 'LaFXX' mule but this is doubtful as they're expected to stick with a V12, not to mention that the LaF customer cars haven't even begun production yet. It's probably the new Formula 1 V6.


Edited by quasi C, 29 November 2013 - 18:23.


#776 ApexMouse

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 18:36

In before 'radical and agressive, looks fast'



#777 Timstr11

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 21:47

I don't see what Ferrari can learn from installing their new engine in an environment that's totally unrepresentative of the new F1 chassis.

The cooling is not comparable. The forces on the engine are different also due to an unrepresentative installation.

Dynos will give them more accurate information than running the engine in a LaFerrari chassis. Rubbish speculation.



#778 bonjon1979a

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 23:23

That's what I was wondering. Other than the pr what's the purpose? I suspect they're using the hype about a 2014 engine for some other pr purpose. Of course, this could just be shakedown day 1 and the cars going to be thumping around the track for the next month. Then I could see some advantage.

#779 MadYarpen

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 23:39

I really, really like it. At low revs it is like an evil growl and then it starts to scream. But of course we will not hear it live on TV ;)

 

I listen to it for 4th time ATM, what a pleasant surprise.



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#780 RedOne

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 09:53

Dat sound!

#781 Scotracer

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 10:39

Yep, that sounds like a V6 Turbo.



#782 vista

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 10:57

God, the laFerrari looks slow in that video when accelerating. 



#783 Scotracer

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 11:34

I don't see what Ferrari can learn from installing their new engine in an environment that's totally unrepresentative of the new F1 chassis.

The cooling is not comparable. The forces on the engine are different also due to an unrepresentative installation.

Dynos will give them more accurate information than running the engine in a LaFerrari chassis. Rubbish speculation.

 

You can learn a surprising amount in a non-applicable installation. Lots of debugging and sensor calibration work.



#784 LarsB

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 12:03

And what about 'surge-testing'? Can't do that on a dyno. This surely is a turbocharged engine, and not the new V6 T of the California - there's a video of that on YouTube.
But above all: someone I rate very highly on (race)car technology is 100 % sure hรจ hears 1 compressor surging. This indicates a single turbo and which production engine uses that nowadays? Sorry for my English, just a Dutchman ๐Ÿ˜€

#785 Jejking

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 12:06

I don't see what Ferrari can learn from installing their new engine in an environment that's totally unrepresentative of the new F1 chassis.

The cooling is not comparable. The forces on the engine are different also due to an unrepresentative installation.

Dynos will give them more accurate information than running the engine in a LaFerrari chassis. Rubbish speculation.

 

Beg to differ! It isn't the chassis what should be tested in real life but the engine. What/how do you know about the interior intake systems? The car could have been run much stiffer to emulate some forces but the rest of the work has to be done on the bench, or in the real F1 2014 car. This is a good disguise and I think it's the 2014 engine at work. Sounds reasonable. Note that it's not going all balls-out when near the camera, those drivers are very alert on the presence of footage recording stuff.
 



#786 Timstr11

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 13:11

You can learn a surprising amount in a non-applicable installation. Lots of debugging and sensor calibration work.

Not convinced.

I think we're simply looking at an LMP1 mule, which we know will share some basic powertrain designs with the 2014 F1 powertrain.



#787 akshay380

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 15:44

Surprised to see people doubting if its a turbo or NA. Come on guys. We are racing fans and should sniff at any wastegate and turbo noise. My gut feeling says that is 100% 2014 F1 turbo engine. They could get some realistic torque figures in real world situations.



#788 DanardiF1

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 15:55

Not convinced.

I think we're simply looking at an LMP1 mule, which we know will share some basic powertrain designs with the 2014 F1 powertrain.

 

This is my thinking too... but I do think it's the F1-spec engine, because the specs are so similar and the F1 engine is ready earlier that it just makes sense to chuck it in and get some miles on it.


Edited by DanardiF1, 30 November 2013 - 15:56.


#789 dau

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 16:52

Not convinced.

I think we're simply looking at an LMP1 mule, which we know will share some basic powertrain designs with the 2014 F1 powertrain.

 

Possible of course, but your basic criticism would still apply there, wouldn't it? Whether it's an LMP or F1 engine, testing in a LaFerrari (god, who came up with that name?) should be comparably representative and useful. Based on that argumentation, i don't see why an LMP engine would be more likely. I also think cooling should be relatively easy to simulate here - there's no need to test with a full F1 radiator assembly, all you need is a comparable rate of heat flow.

 

Of course we'll probably never know for sure what was being tested in that car, so it could very well be just a road car engine as well. 


Edited by dau, 30 November 2013 - 16:53.


#790 DanardiF1

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 17:33

They're testing an engine not a car and not the application of it in the car. They just want something that is rolling. A LaFerrari mule that has all the requisitie cooling ducts (that they can just cut into the car) is perfect for just that... getting an engine out on track.



#791 Gorma

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 17:44

They're testing an engine not a car and not the application of it in the car. They just want something that is rolling. A LaFerrari mule that has all the requisitie cooling ducts (that they can just cut into the car) is perfect for just that... getting an engine out on track.

Yes it's kind of difficult to stress the engine and ancillaries with bumps and g-forces in a dyno.



#792 JLF1

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 17:46

that has a very similar sound to a LMP engine, and also the new f1 engine, it sounds slightly different as it is in open air and not on a dyno, damn i miss those V8's already



#793 PAGATRON

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 17:49

Really silly question, can Renault or Mercedes do/have done something similar to Ferrari, neither have a rear engine road car do they?


Edited by PAGATRON, 30 November 2013 - 17:50.


#794 DanardiF1

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 17:50

Really silly question, can Renault or Mercedes do/have done something similar to Ferrari, neither have a rear engine car do they?

 

They'd have to build a bespoke mule, which isn't beyond either of them in terms of resources. As long as it's not a 2014-spec F1 car they can put it in any car they want.



#795 JLF1

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 17:52

They can always use an older F1 car, that option is there for them, but that would involve modifications and money, something i doubt they will do though, but you never know



#796 acelik

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 17:54

 

If Renault had done it before with Espace, Ferrari can also do it :)



#797 maverick69

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 17:55

A DW12 would make a good test mule.

 

A ready made single seater designed to take a high powered turbo V6...... and lots of off-the-shelf parts available when you inevitably need to hack things up.



#798 Gorma

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 18:23

They can always use an older F1 car, that option is there for them, but that would involve modifications and money, something i doubt they will do though, but you never know

No they cannot. 

 

 

Track testing shall be considered any track running time not part of an Event undertaken by a 

competitor entered in the Championship, using cars which conform substantially with the 
current Formula One Technical Regulations in addition to those from the previous or 
subsequent year.

Edited by Gorma, 30 November 2013 - 18:23.


#799 senna da silva

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 18:28

I would agree that it doesn't really sound like a V12 and in my opinion is rather close to what we've heard from Merc and Renault's engines, but who knows what it is. It's not too far fetched to assume they'd test their unit like that and the quite simple air intake on the roof also does make the car look like a test mule, but it could be just generic engine testing as well.

 

c5inHDB.png

 

That car, especially the nose, looks very P4ish to me.



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#800 Mrluke

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 20:18

No they cannot. 
 
Track testing shall be considered any track running time not part of an Event undertaken by a
competitor entered in the Championship, using cars which conform substantially with the
current Formula One Technical Regulations
in addition to those from the previous or
subsequent year.


"conform substantially" that could mean anything, soo wide open. Would be very difficult for anybody to enforce.