Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Does the Impressiveness of a Race Car's Sound Matter?


  • Please log in to reply
77 replies to this topic

#51 DrProzac

DrProzac
  • Member

  • 1,833 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 14 January 2013 - 21:37

And the most impressive thing in such situation is the sound. Because you can feel it.

Advertisement

#52 PretentiousBread

PretentiousBread
  • Member

  • 2,882 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 14 January 2013 - 22:46

LIIIIISSSSTEENNNNN

http://www.youtube.c...be_gdata_player

Sound is if course important, and I won't be fed this bullshit that 'it just takes getting used to, then the old ways will seem wrong'. The cars back then did look and sound better, there's no question.

#53 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 55,890 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 15 January 2013 - 00:03

I don't think that sounds better *shrug*

#54 wepmob2000

wepmob2000
  • Member

  • 669 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 15 January 2013 - 00:43

LIIIIISSSSTEENNNNN

http://www.youtube.c...be_gdata_player

Sound is if course important, and I won't be fed this bullshit that 'it just takes getting used to, then the old ways will seem wrong'. The cars back then did look and sound better, there's no question.


:up: I agree, and if F1 ever goes all electric, with all the aural power of 26 milkfloats in close formation, I for one won't be watching. I do get used to the new ways, and still think the old ways were better (especially in the 1970's - before my time - but the cars looked and sounded awesome). Sound is an integral part of the F1 experience, and F1 needs to be loud and powerful, and the cars need to give you that thump in the chest everytime they go past, anything less, and well.... its a bit pathetic really......

Maybe there's not too many musically minded people here, but the sound is why I attend live races, the visuals after all are far better on TV. But TV can't replicate the sheer visceral power of F1 cars which makes them so impressive in the first place, and which makes attending races in person so addictive. The same goes for attending live gigs, and airshows come to that, and anyone who's not seriously impressed with a Boeing 747 taking off right in front of you - with the sound and tangible power that it entails - well :well:



#55 klyster

klyster
  • Member

  • 4,154 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:24



I wonder what deaf people think of it all, do they appreciate racing as much as people who can hear?

What if electric cars were faster but quiet, would people prefer to watch slower but noisier cars?

Personally, I love the sound of F1 engines, but if it went electric, I'd still watch it, whenever possible.

It's not the engine noise that's so important, it's the speed and driver skill and the limits they reach.

Then again, I don't really appreciate drag racing...............

Edited by klyster, 15 January 2013 - 08:26.


#56 seahawk

seahawk
  • Member

  • 2,915 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:35

Sound has become boring when all engines became similar. Back in the days of V8, V10 and V12 or L4, V6 and V8s on the grid, the sound was interesting.
But then I still consider the Audi S1 Quattro the most awesome sounding racing machine ever.

#57 manmower

manmower
  • Member

  • 350 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:51

Here's the kind of sound I was talking about: some Berger and Mansell onboards.

#58 Henri Greuter

Henri Greuter
  • Member

  • 4,548 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 15 January 2013 - 11:38

Sound has become boring when all engines became similar. Back in the days of V8, V10 and V12 or L4, V6 and V8s on the grid, the sound was interesting.
But then I still consider the Audi S1 Quattro the most awesome sounding racing machine ever.



If you mention the S1 Quattro, may I dare to mention the Delta S4?
The engine growl was less impressive then that of the Quattro but the S4 als had that hissing and howling of either the Turbo and/or the Roots along with the growl. That was an awesome `cocktail of sound` that made it clear that a complicated piece of machinery was working hard.

henri

#59 SpaMaster

SpaMaster
  • Member

  • 5,856 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 15 January 2013 - 14:48

I wonder what deaf people think of it all, do they appreciate racing as much as people who can hear?

What if electric cars were faster but quiet, would people prefer to watch slower but noisier cars?

Personally, I love the sound of F1 engines, but if it went electric, I'd still watch it, whenever possible.

It's not the engine noise that's so important, it's the speed and driver skill and the limits they reach.

Then again, I don't really appreciate drag racing...............

Exactly my thoughts!

Advertisement

#60 king_crud

king_crud
  • Member

  • 1,307 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 15 January 2013 - 16:33

I thought sound was incredibly important, but after going to Le Mans for the first time last year and seeing the Audis "whoosh" through the Porsche curves my opinion has changed somewhat.

#61 7MGTEsup

7MGTEsup
  • Member

  • 287 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 15 January 2013 - 17:11

Sound is important but it's not the be all and end all. If you have ever watched a top fuel dragster now that is LOUD. I bet if you ran an F1 car down the strip after the Top Fueler most people would be "meh". When I went to the Euro finals at Santa Pod last september I remember that as soon as the top fuelers fire up everyong was on their feet and looking. Even though the Top Alcohol cars had just run and they were pretty loud to.

Top Fuelers hurt, but its a good hurt lol its almost a physical experiance rather than an aural one.

Actually after writing this I'm a bit torn on the subject now lol.

#62 DrProzac

DrProzac
  • Member

  • 1,833 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 15 January 2013 - 18:59

I hope that the (K)ERS will have a cools sound (instead of nothing). Hybrid stuff was the only good sounding thing on the Audi R18 E-Tron..

#63 V8 Fireworks

V8 Fireworks
  • Member

  • 5,237 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:06

It depends on whether sound is needed for the speed. If it does not, then we are focusing on the wrong feature.

I must say for instance, production cars with standard / near-standard exhausts some horrible. When they sit on a race program in between historic muscle cars and 911 Cup, the fine efforts of folks in WRXs, Evos and GTis do little to excite the ears.

#64 scolbourne

scolbourne
  • Member

  • 208 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:48

I was at the 2007 IOM TT races and they had an exhibition lap by the historic racing bikes. The pre-war German superchgarged bikes were the most painful ever vehicle to listen to in my opinion from about 100m away.
Not the quantity of sound and power from a top-fuel dragster, but at a frequency that seemed to hit some nerve in the human ear.

#65 Dipster

Dipster
  • Member

  • 161 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 16 January 2013 - 07:08

Perhaps slightly off thread topic but..

As one of the generation of pre-latop and interweb thingys the sound of the motor and car in general was always important to me. Why? I think it is a question of training, of education. Many times I have looked at a poorly running motor that, upon investigation had components that were shot and thus making it impossible to set up the timing, for instance. I was taught (by my very knowledgable "motor engineer" father) that you could set the motor up on the sound it made. I am sure this sounds daft to all you plug-things-in-and-see (that I now admire too) people but it worked very well.

Let me remind you that Jack Brabham (admittedly now reported as deaf as a post) did, I believe, like to hear the car to help him sense how things were doing.


#66 seahawk

seahawk
  • Member

  • 2,915 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 16 January 2013 - 07:29

If you mention the S1 Quattro, may I dare to mention the Delta S4?
The engine growl was less impressive then that of the Quattro but the S4 als had that hissing and howling of either the Turbo and/or the Roots along with the growl. That was an awesome `cocktail of sound` that made it clear that a complicated piece of machinery was working hard.

henri


Agree, the 037 was also a beauty in every form.

#67 7MGTEsup

7MGTEsup
  • Member

  • 287 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:39

Perhaps slightly off thread topic but..

As one of the generation of pre-latop and interweb thingys the sound of the motor and car in general was always important to me. Why? I think it is a question of training, of education. Many times I have looked at a poorly running motor that, upon investigation had components that were shot and thus making it impossible to set up the timing, for instance. I was taught (by my very knowledgable "motor engineer" father) that you could set the motor up on the sound it made. I am sure this sounds daft to all you plug-things-in-and-see (that I now admire too) people but it worked very well.

Let me remind you that Jack Brabham (admittedly now reported as deaf as a post) did, I believe, like to hear the car to help him sense how things were doing.


You can definately tell a lot about the ignition timing and fueling of a car from they sound of the engine. Not enough ignition advance and the engine note is flat, to much and the engine begins to knock. To much fuel and the engine doesn't pick up clean and again sounds a bit muted at full load.

#68 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 55,890 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:48

Im not sure I've ever heard a knocking F1 car.

#69 7MGTEsup

7MGTEsup
  • Member

  • 287 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 16 January 2013 - 18:37

Im not sure I've ever heard a knocking F1 car.


I was referring to cars in general, but knocking (detonation) is what killed all those BMW turbo engines early in the development. You wouldn't be able to hear it over the exhaust noise.


#70 Henri Greuter

Henri Greuter
  • Member

  • 4,548 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 16 January 2013 - 19:25

I was referring to cars in general, but knocking (detonation) is what killed all those BMW turbo engines early in the development. You wouldn't be able to hear it over the exhaust noise.



A most remarkable story involving engine sound and development.

The legendary supercharged Novi V8 Indy engine had been given a new ignition system since 1958 but the cars failed to qualify in 1959 and 1960 and the Granatelli brothers bought the inventory. When Andy G. did the first tests with the engine he claimed that he heard the engine fighting itself, sounding wrong. Now the main engineer before 1960 was jean Marcenac who had joined the Granatellis. He was at this test too and according him the engine sounded fine. It turned out however that the ignition setting on the engine was entirely off, causing the engine almost to blow itself to pieces.

The question for me still is: why did Marcenac never heard anything strange while Granatelli heard it instantly. Now Marcenac was in his 60s by that time and maybe his hearing was affected a bit?
Because if we talk about loud engines: The Novi definitely was a loud engine, There are reports that it was capable of 130 dB !

Henri

#71 Rubens Hakkamacher

Rubens Hakkamacher
  • Member

  • 1,567 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 19 January 2013 - 18:05

The question for me still is: why did Marcenac never heard anything strange while Granatelli heard it instantly. Now Marcenac was in his 60s by that time and maybe his hearing was affected a bit?


That has to do with musical awareness: the ability to both "save" the sound one is hearing in real time and to comprehend it mentally on very minute time scales. Which again harkens back to the V10 versus Top Fuel comparison: there is no comparison, it's not just about the volume, it's about the volume combined with details in the sound.

There is a crazy guy somewhere that made a small scale replica of a Ferrari 312pb that actually runs, and it sounds amazingly realistic. He seems to have been motivated by the *sound* alone:
312p model

It sounds pretty cool - and it's probably hitting over 112db, but at 3 feet. You're not going to hear it from a mile away; it's not moving enough air.

Volume+Complexity of sound= "Entertainment". You can't take a part out of that equation.







#72 Gold

Gold
  • Member

  • 167 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 29 January 2013 - 20:03

For me nothing will ever surpass the sound of V12 F1 cars echoing off mountains at Monaco.

https://www.google.n...tzpO1F7I6G1HtJw

#73 Rubens Hakkamacher

Rubens Hakkamacher
  • Member

  • 1,567 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:19

For me nothing will ever surpass the sound of V12 F1 cars echoing off mountains at Monaco.

https://www.google.n...tzpO1F7I6G1HtJw



That's the best recording of a car, ever IMO. I think the late, great audio engineer Roger Nichols may have made that.

The sound in the distance is all important! The dopplering of the upshifts, the echoing of the downshifts... the revving in the distance... you don't get that with Top Fuel. And that "Swiss Watch with Horsepower" effect - the V10s still had it, the V8s "not so much".










#74 Gold

Gold
  • Member

  • 167 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:46

That's the best recording of a car, ever IMO. I think the late, great audio engineer Roger Nichols may have made that.

The sound in the distance is all important! The dopplering of the upshifts, the echoing of the downshifts... the revving in the distance... you don't get that with Top Fuel. And that "Swiss Watch with Horsepower" effect - the V10s still had it, the V8s "not so much".


The pic is a Mclaren V10 but the majestic howling V12 with the little explosions in the overrun and the wail is undeniably the 3.5L V12 Ferrari either the F93 or the 412T1. Going by the rpm I'd guess the latter.

I love the Honda V12 equally though, a ringing vicious snarl, mechanical, impatient. The idle almost swearing at you for keeping the car stationary. I miss these engines. Today I literally cannot distinguish one engine sound from another.

Edited by Gold, 30 January 2013 - 02:51.


#75 MrLam

MrLam
  • New Member

  • 8 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:18

Here is a nice engine sound, Novi engine 1963 Indy 500


It's only a soundtrack but i love the sound of this V8. I recommend to listen very loud (unless you are at the office of course as it might wake up your boss) :)

#76 HoldenRT

HoldenRT
  • Member

  • 4,851 posts
  • Joined: May 05

Posted 30 January 2013 - 16:52

Forget about fanboys and driver fans.. and forums and what drivers said on twitter.. who they are dating and anything else.

The core of F1 is the cars. Being on the track.

The livery.. the shape of them and the sound and the speed. All 4 are important and make F1 what it is different to all the other racing series.



#77 DampMongoose

DampMongoose
  • Member

  • 1,108 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 30 January 2013 - 17:09

It certainly matters to the fans who go to watch the races! The look on peoples faces particlularly the younger fans in the paddock, when they start a Can-Am or Interserie car for example, confirms what I thought since my first race meeting... from a spectating perspective the sound of a car is at least as important as the speed! The awe on the young kids faces as a T70 kicked up the loose gravel and fired it at whoever stood behind it was ace, didn't matter if it wasn't the fastest car around the circuit.

At my last visit to watch sportscars at Silverstone, the fans around us had a smile on their faces when the big SLS mercedes came past, because compared to the other cars it sounded like a biplane, it wasn't running right at the front but the sound made it a crowd favourite, also the cloth tearing scream of the Rebellion LMP cars was far more entertaining than the leading diesel Audis and Peugeots!

That's why I always preferred Group C in its heyday to F1, the variation of the turbos, V8's and the Jag V12's was ace!

Edited by DampMongoose, 30 January 2013 - 17:10.


#78 DrProzac

DrProzac
  • Member

  • 1,833 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 30 January 2013 - 17:49

That's the best recording of a car, ever IMO. I think the late, great audio engineer Roger Nichols may have made that.

The sound in the distance is all important! The dopplering of the upshifts, the echoing of the downshifts... the revving in the distance... you don't get that with Top Fuel. And that "Swiss Watch with Horsepower" effect - the V10s still had it, the V8s "not so much".

I think it matches my previous favorite: