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Mansell v Piquet: the 're-match'


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#1 Kart15

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:28

Awesome idea of brazilian Ford Motors for the ad of the new Ford Fusion: bring back the two rold rivals for a revenge, epic:



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#2 Tim Murray

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 06:16

What did they do 16 years ago? :confused:

#3 Emery0323

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:04

Piquet has really aged, if I didn't know who it was, I wouldn't have recognized him.


#4 john aston

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:15

Piquet has really aged, if I didn't know who it was, I wouldn't have recognized him.



Actually he is the same age as I am. nearly to the day. Obviously I still look just the same as I did in Stowe Grandstand '87. I wish...

#5 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:52

Sit in the barber's chair long enough and you're sure to see grey stuff falling on the floor...

But it's true that some age more than others.

One driver here used to have a habit of 'adjusting' or 'scratching' his cods all the time. I saw him at the Tasman Revival meeting and wasn't sure who he was, but then he reached down and had a scratch. Okaayyy...

#6 GrumpyOldMan

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 19:31

Barber's chair?? Yes, I think I remember that. For some of us, grey stuff falling to the floor is aspirational...

Nelson's Indy accident would have put a few lines on his face - I'm sure it would have added half a century to mine.

At least Noige has a chance this time, using a helicopter instead of a car :)

Edited by GrumpyOldMan, 15 January 2013 - 19:32.


#7 alansart

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 19:36

At least Noige has a chance this time, using a helicopter instead of a car :)


Give em a couple of Williams and let them slug it out....

....my version of Mansell & Piquet heading into Stowe :)

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#8 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 20:29

That's nice, Alan!

#9 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 20:30

One could be very nostalgic about those days...

Even if we know they were way too close to these days.

#10 GrumpyOldMan

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 21:04

Lovely image, Alan.

But can I be a rivet-counter and say they look like the 86 Williams, not the 87?

Perhaps "Mansell & Piquet heading into Hawthorn" instead? :)

Not that it matters - any excuse to show the cars from 83 - 88 is fine by me. There's a clip on Youtube of Nelson's Brands pole from 86. Made the hair on the back of my neck stand up even 27 years on in a way today's Noddy cars never could.

#11 Emery0323

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 22:30

But can I be a rivet-counter and say they look like the 86 Williams, not the 87?


The larger, triangular-shaped front endplates were unique to the 1987 car.


#12 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:22

Piquet has really aged, if I didn't know who it was, I wouldn't have recognized him.

Nelson has aged, though still trim, Nige is fatter in the face, and I guess a bit bigger all over. Though it was 25+ years ago. Scarey isnt it how time flies.

#13 ellrosso

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:41

Not exactly the same I'm afraid , but same corner, same year at least.

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#14 Emery0323

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:24

Not exactly the same I'm afraid , but same corner, same year at least.

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I'll stand corrected - the triangular front end-plates appeared in late-season for the GPs of Mexico and Australia in '86, but then appear to have been on the Williams cars for all of 1987.

For the British GP, at least, they were only on the cars in 1987.

Edited by Emery0323, 16 January 2013 - 05:43.


#15 GrumpyOldMan

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:30

I was thinking more about the air intakes on the sidepods. Until now I'd thought they were only on the 87 cars, but these pictures clearly show Mansell's car with them (although Piquet's is in more "standard" 86 configuration). But googling images of the Aussie GP in 86 show these on Piquet's car as well! Williams must have added them (along with the front wing sideplates) as a late season upgrade. I was obviously too engrossed in the race itself to notice aesthetics like that..

Still can't believe it's over 26 years since that day. Nelson's early spin, Nigel's circumspect (for once!) drive, Keke's last hoorah, Prost lurking - the first 60 laps or so were like a chess game until all hell broke loose with 20 laps left.

#16 Tony Matthews

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:51

I don't know if this helps...

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#17 Emery0323

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:27

Still can't believe it's over 26 years since that day. Nelson's early spin, Nigel's circumspect (for once!) drive, Keke's last hoorah, Prost lurking - the first 60 laps or so were like a chess game until all hell broke loose with 20 laps left.


Yes, it occurred to me recently that the Mid/late 1980's battles of Prost/Piquet/Senna/Mansell were over a quarter-century ago - exactly 1/2 a lifetime in my case :well:


#18 alansart

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:30

I think I got pretty close :)

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#19 SEdward

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 14:15

I've often wondered about Adelaide '86, and just how Williams managed not to win the title with one of their drivers. They must have done it on purpose.

Didn't Piquet pit eariler than expected with shot tyres? Shouldn't the Williams crew have called in Mansell to pit and change rubber at that point? Wouldn't that have allowed Nigel to finish in a points-scoring position and win the title, even if he didn't win the race?

I still find it quite remarkable that Prost won that race and the 1986 championship, especially with a fuel gauge that showed empty for the last few laps...

And as another member has already noted, it was just about one half of a lifetime ago. But the memories of that early morning in front of the TV are still vivid.

Edward

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#20 nmansellfan

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 17:57

And as another member has already noted, it was just about one half of a lifetime ago. But the memories of that early morning in front of the TV are still vivid.

Edward


Same for me, and it's the first proper memory I have of watching a GP on television (i'm told I watched them from much earlier than the age of 8, at the time of the '86 finale, but thats the first one I can properly remember the race venue and the year). Thinking back I must have watched the daytime repeat of the race though, as my memory coincides with bartering my parents - for the 300th time that year already - that I wanted the Le Mans Scalextric set for Christmas that year, the one with the gold and silver Porsche 911's and the acres of track, while watching Nige's title hopes go up in a shower of sparks and flying rubber. Funny what you remember, isn't it?

Edited by nmansellfan, 16 January 2013 - 17:58.


#21 GrumpyOldMan

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 20:28

I think I got pretty close :)

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Yes - closer than I thought. I've just looked back at the GP highlights from the race, and neither Williams had the air intakes for that race.

So well done!

#22 GrumpyOldMan

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 20:35

I've often wondered about Adelaide '86, and just how Williams managed not to win the title with one of their drivers. They must have done it on purpose.

Didn't Piquet pit eariler than expected with shot tyres? Shouldn't the Williams crew have called in Mansell to pit and change rubber at that point? Wouldn't that have allowed Nigel to finish in a points-scoring position and win the title, even if he didn't win the race?

I still find it quite remarkable that Prost won that race and the 1986 championship, especially with a fuel gauge that showed empty for the last few laps...

And as another member has already noted, it was just about one half of a lifetime ago. But the memories of that early morning in front of the TV are still vivid.

Edward


From memory (so could be a load of old rubbish):

I don't think the plan was for anyone to run through without stopping. But I think Prost had an early stop for a puncture, Goodyear had a look at the tyres and thought that a non-stop run would be possible.

It looked ok until Rosberg's and then Mansell's tyre failures. Piquet was called in acouple of laps later as a precaution, and I think his tyres were found to be ok and would have lasted the race. The 2 tyre failures were just coincidence or maybe a flaw in the batch. Prost of course had already stopped so had no worries apart from his critical fuel. Luckily for him, his gauge was accurate and he judged his pace perfectly to the fuel he had left, just spluttering on the final corner. Another lap and Piquet would have had him. Mind you, if Piquet hadn't spun earlier he would have been much closer and would have been past Prost with plenty of laps to spare.

#23 Tim Murray

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 20:45

Mind you, if Piquet hadn't spun earlier he would have been much closer and would have been past Prost with plenty of laps to spare.

... and thus become World Champion.

#24 Emery0323

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:27

I think I got pretty close :)
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Yes! But do I see a RED #6 on Piquet's car ??


#25 alansart

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:53

Yes! But do I see a RED #6 on Piquet's car ??


I know. It should be white :blush:


#26 D-Type

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:29

I've just realised - if Mansell had car number 5 and Piquet had number 6 does that suggest that Mansell was the team's official No. 1 driver?

#27 Tim Murray

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:50

Rosberg had been #6 at Williams for several years, so when Mansell arrived he took over the vacant #5. Similarly, when Piquet arrived at the start of 1986 he took over the #6 vacated by Rosberg. I don't think Williams ever placed any significance on driver number order.

#28 Emery0323

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:28

Rosberg had been #6 at Williams for several years, so when Mansell arrived he took over the vacant #5. Similarly, when Piquet arrived at the start of 1986 he took over the #6 vacated by Rosberg. I don't think Williams ever placed any significance on driver number order.



I think that's correct that the team management placed no particular significance on the numbering.

I do vaguely recall reading a story on the Mansell-Piquet rivalry published at the time (maybe in R&T? or Motorsport?) that Piquet felt he should have had the lower number,
but they'd already registered it to Mansell and then Frank Williams was laid up due to his road accident and the matter wasn't pursued.
It was supposedly one of the petty irritants that made Piquet resent Mansell.

#29 GrumpyOldMan

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 22:21

I think that's correct that the team management placed no particular significance on the numbering.

I do vaguely recall reading a story on the Mansell-Piquet rivalry published at the time (maybe in R&T? or Motorsport?) that Piquet felt he should have had the lower number,
but they'd already registered it to Mansell and then Frank Williams was laid up due to his road accident and the matter wasn't pursued.
It was supposedly one of the petty irritants that made Piquet resent Mansell.


Although Williams' refusal to honour their contract, Mansell's sudden leap forward in competitiveness and the team's chief designer being appointed Mansell's race engineer would have rankled far more. Maybe Nelson felt it was a little disrespectful to not be allowed to choose the number, no matter how daft that might sound. He was No. 5 in 1980, 81 & 83 so maybe thought it was a lucky number for him.