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Perez says Rosberg faster than Vettel


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#1 jrg19

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:45

http://www.motorspor...n-vettel-perez/

"In terms of pure speed, Nico Rosberg is the fastest German,"


What makes Perez say such things, isn't Sebastian regarded as the fastest of this generation?

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#2 Fontainebleau

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:50

http://www.motorspor...n-vettel-perez/



What makes Perez say such things, isn't Sebastian regarded as the fastest of this generation?

I have read the odd comment, but never seen any consensus about Vettel being the fastest of his generation (other than among his fans, of course  ;) ).

Having said that, I do not necessarily agree with Perez - although I do highly rate Rosberg.

#3 Jovanotti

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:55

Who is he to be able to judge Vettel and Rosberg? Just a non-issue frankly.

Edited by Jovanotti, 17 January 2013 - 09:56.


#4 jrg19

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:56

The only thing that could support his claim is that Rosberg beat the most successful driver ever, three times. I also believe Rosberg in a RedBull would be comparable with Vettel but i dont think he would come out on top.

#5 Sin

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:58

It's his opinion... Rosberg didn't have a car that could challenge any of the topteams cars.... so it is really hard to compare those two... I personally think Vettel is faster... but it's just an opinion as well, just like Perez has his opinion... if its true can only really be proven if both would be driving the same or a very similar car

#6 mnmracer

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:58

Of course you can never make perfect direct comparisons, and I'm sure Nico has improved since, but "in terms of pure speed", Nico's qualifying ratio to Webber (33%) is an extremely long shot from Vettel's (71%). If it was almost 50/50 back at Williams, maybe, but the gap is just too big.

#7 Zava

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:00

http://www.motorspor...n-vettel-perez/



What makes Perez say such things, isn't Sebastian regarded as the fastest of this generation?

Perez told Sport Bild he intends to push to beat Vettel and all other adversaries for the 2013 drivers' title.

you just gotta adore how cute he is :cat: thinks he is now one of the big boys, and can unsettle the currently most succesfull one with 'mind games'. :rolleyes:

#8 MadYarpen

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:04

do we need a new thread for every driver's quote which someone feels is wrong? Come on... They all talk a lot.

Edited by MadYarpen, 17 January 2013 - 10:04.


#9 Sin

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:05

Of course you can never make perfect direct comparisons, and I'm sure Nico has improved since, but "in terms of pure speed", Nico's qualifying ratio to Webber (33%) is an extremely long shot from Vettel's (71%). If it was almost 50/50 back at Williams, maybe, but the gap is just too big.


yeah that is what I would base me saying Vettel is faster than Rosberg too


#10 Clatter

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:21

Who is he to be able to judge Vettel and Rosberg? Just a non-issue frankly.


Whether you agree or not he is certainly a damned sight better placed to make a judgement than any of us.


#11 Buttoneer

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:24

Can someone find the original Sport Bild article and post the full quote (not article) please, so we at least all know exactly what it is we're discussing? The OP already left out the follow up comment that "Sebastian is the more complete driver and a great champion" which appears to have lesser importance to both the headline writer and thread for the moment.

I'm not sure how this thread will go, but considering that we don't allow driver v driver threads for exactly the reason that nobody can come up with common terms of reference and comparison for drivers in different cars, I don't hold out much hope.

#12 peroa

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:24

do we need a new thread for every driver's quote which someone feels is wrong? Come on... They all talk a lot.

It could be all in one thread, but what can you do, could be worse...

#13 Clatter

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:25

Perez told Sport Bild he intends to push to beat Vettel and all other adversaries for the 2013 drivers' title.

you just gotta adore how cute he is :cat: thinks he is now one of the big boys, and can unsettle the currently most succesfull one with 'mind games'. :rolleyes:


Love how people take one line and spew all over it.

Why not use this one which shows why he is setting his sights high.

"I am 100 per cent sure that the McLaren will be better than my Sauber," he said, "which is why I need to set high goals.



#14 Clatter

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:26

Can someone find the original Sport Bild article and post the full quote (not article) please, so we at least all know exactly what it is we're discussing? The OP already left out the follow up comment that "Sebastian is the more complete driver and a great champion" which appears to have lesser importance to both the headline writer and thread for the moment.

I'm not sure how this thread will go, but considering that we don't allow driver v driver threads for exactly the reason that nobody can come up with common terms of reference and comparison for drivers in different cars, I don't hold out much hope.


IMHO you should kill it now. It's obviously just another bashing thread.

#15 TF110

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:40

The Webber vs. Rosberg to Webber vs. Vettel isn't a fair argument. I'd say a then younger Webber may have been as fast as he is now, and arguably Rosberg wasn't as quick as he is now.

#16 mnmracer

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:20

The Webber vs. Rosberg to Webber vs. Vettel isn't a fair argument. I'd say a then younger Webber may have been as fast as he is now, and arguably Rosberg wasn't as quick as he is now.

As I said, Rosberg most likely improved, but to go from being beaten by Webber 67% of the time, to beating the same driver >67% of the time, is a looooooooong way.

Edited by mnmracer, 17 January 2013 - 11:23.


#17 ViMaMo

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:29

:clap: Finally someone faster than finger man.  ;)

#18 seahawk

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:32

Simple:

If Lewis > Rosberg and Rosberg > Vettel and Lewis ~ Button, then even if Perez < Button Perez ~ Vettel

Edited by seahawk, 17 January 2013 - 11:32.


#19 Group B

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:34

Who is he to be able to judge Vettel and Rosberg? Just a non-issue frankly.

:up:
A shit-stirring cheap one-liner with little point or foundation.

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#20 SteF1an

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:28

Simple:

If Lewis > Rosberg and Rosberg > Vettel and Lewis ~ Button, then even if Perez < Button Perez ~ Vettel

:rotfl:

#21 H2H

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:35

I would love to see a direct link on that.

If true, it would be quite funny. Note that I like both Rosberg and Perez, as well as Vettel.

Die Zeit cites him also in this way, refering to der Sport Bild. Keep in mind that he was talking to a German newspaper, who likely asked him about his opinion about German drivers. No need to shoot too quickly.

Edited by H2H, 17 January 2013 - 12:39.


#22 Kingshark

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:49

Rosberg is one of my more preferred drivers, and I dislike Vettel along with Red Bull. However, I find this very strange to say the least. Sure, Rosberg hasn't got a top car, ever, but to rate him with Vettel... meh.

#23 Sin

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:52

it seems like everybody is talking about an article from their print magazine, since I find nothing online at sport bild but at several other germans sources it is quoted

#24 Kingshark

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:54

Simple:

If Lewis > Rosberg and Rosberg > Vettel and Lewis ~ Button, then even if Perez < Button Perez ~ Vettel

Actually, it would end up like this:

Perez > Hamilton = Alonso > Button ~ Rosberg = Schumacher > Vettel > Webber > Coulthard ~ Hakkinen > Senna > Prost > Mansell = Lauda >>>> Loeb. with Trulli > Alonso and Di Resta > Vettel and Hulkenburg > Di Resta but < Barrichello who was < Schumacher who was < Rosberg who is > Vettel.

Edited by Kingshark, 17 January 2013 - 12:57.


#25 Boxerevo

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 13:00

Well... his opinion.

Didn't like any quote he did on the article at all,feels insecure.

Everybody can dig at Vettel,he isn't one of my faves but he is a three time world champion,nuff said.

And about Malaysia...he should have won and he really can't do this with hindsight now.

#26 Kingshark

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 13:05

"In terms of pure speed, Nico Rosberg is the fastest German,"

Maybe he forgot that Vettel is German?

#27 jjcale

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 13:36

Who is he to be able to judge Vettel and Rosberg? Just a non-issue frankly.


err ... a current F1 driver

Can anyone else be better qualified to judge??

#28 mnmracer

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 13:46

Maybe he forgot that Vettel is German?

He does seem to have an unGerman sense of humor.

#29 Mauseri

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 13:53

Simple:

If Lewis > Rosberg and Rosberg > Vettel and Lewis ~ Button, then even if Perez < Button Perez ~ Vettel

Drivers only say that certain driver is fast, if it also makes themselves look fast..

I don't think Rosberg is on same level as Vettel, as he should have shown better race pace against Schumacher. Rosberg is surely a fast driver but rarely makes what you could say a fast race. Even before Merc time. Vettel has proven his race pace more than enough.

Edited by Mauseri, 17 January 2013 - 13:54.


#30 Nycco

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 14:00

http://www.motorspor...n-vettel-perez/



What makes Perez say such things, isn't Sebastian regarded as the fastest of this generation?


No, Lewis is.

#31 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 14:01

Like Pastor said: "Perez.. he's.. talking a lot"

#32 charly0418

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 14:41

Well when Rosberg did have a good car (China, Monaco) he was cleary the fastest driver out there. Only reason he didnt beat Webber in Monaco was because Mark didnt do a mistake

#33 LiJu914

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 14:48

As I said, Rosberg most likely improved, but to go from being beaten by Webber 67% of the time, to beating the same driver >67% of the time, is a looooooooong way.


Vettel lost to Luizzi in qualifying 3-4 in his debut "season" - and Liuzzi ain´t exactly the Usain Bolt of Qualifying.

#34 Sin

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 14:50

Maybe he forgot that Vettel is German?


he didn't cause in the next sentence he said Vettel is the most complete german driver :p

even if he would have forgotten him, I still think Hülkenberg is alot quicker than Rosberg

#35 Seanspeed

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 14:55

Whether you agree or not he is certainly a damned sight better placed to make a judgement than any of us.

I'm at the point where I dont believe this anymore. Hearing what drivers say sometimes, I often feel they are somehow less informed or rational than certain forumers.

And yea, Sport Bild is notoriously unreliable.

Edited by Seanspeed, 17 January 2013 - 14:57.


#36 mnmracer

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 14:57

Vettel lost to Luizzi in qualifying 3-4 in his debut "season" - and Liuzzi ain´t exactly the Usain Bolt of Qualifying.

3 of those in the first 4 races.
You can't compare someone who's been test driver for a team for a year, and then had the complete off-season of testing, to a driver who was test driver and drove one race for a different team earlier that year, and just two weeks earlier was still leading the Formula Renault 3.5 championship. Once Vettel got going, he never looked back.

Edited by mnmracer, 17 January 2013 - 14:59.


#37 Kyo

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 15:05

Well, we will have a good benchmark for measuring Rosberg's speed this season.

Now we just need to wait and see.

#38 Rinehart

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 15:06

He might be.
But as I've been saying for years on certain other threads, the speculated order of faster-slowest driver is NOT in the same order as the best-worst driver.

Rosberg could be faster, that wouldn't surprise me. But Vettel has put a strong case forward to say he would score more points.

#39 LiJu914

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 15:06

3 of those in the first 4 races.
You can't compare someone who's been test driver for a team for a year, and then had the complete off-season of testing, to a driver who was test driver and drove one race for a different team earlier that year, and just two weeks earlier was still leading the Formula Renault 3.5 championship. Once Vettel got going, he never looked back.


Bolded part:
So? Rosberg was 6-1 behind in his first few races and then virtually equal with Webber.
Besides that i don´t think their preparation/experience was that much different.

To be clear: I don´t say, Rosberg is a better qualifyer than Vettel or that he would beat Webber nowadays for sure. But imho it wouldn´t be such a miracle to turn a 34%-66%-bias into the opposite after a few years - it can all change quite quickly. In 2011 Webber was 15%-85% behind Vettel - and last year it was suddenly 50%-50%.

Edited by LiJu914, 17 January 2013 - 15:07.


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#40 UPRC

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 15:09

Drivers only say that certain driver is fast, if it also makes themselves look fast..

I don't think Rosberg is on same level as Vettel, as he should have shown better race pace against Schumacher. Rosberg is surely a fast driver but rarely makes what you could say a fast race. Even before Merc time. Vettel has proven his race pace more than enough.


I'm a bit surprised by what Perez has said, and I'm even a Rosberg fan.

Still, it would be downright silly for any of us to doubt his words. Perez interacts with this guy on the track. What do we do? Watch them on TV. Big difference, so I'll listen to Perez. :)

#41 mnmracer

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 15:10

Besides that i don´t think their preparation/experience was that much different.

I am very curious as to how you think they were not that different.

To be clear: I don´t say, Rosberg is a better qualifyer than Vettel or that he would beat Webber nowadays for sure. But imho it wouldn´t be such a miracle to turn a 34%-66%-bias into the opposite after a few years - it can all change quite quickly. In 2011 Webber was 15%-85% behind Vettel - and last year it was suddenly 50%-50%.

Last year was a case of strategy. You don't turn three consecutive years of ~15-2 into 11-9 on skill or circumstances. Vettel still had the clear upperhand in all bar 3 races.

Edited by mnmracer, 17 January 2013 - 15:12.


#42 LiJu914

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 15:17

Last year was a case of strategy. You don't turn three consecutive years of ~15-2 into 11-9 on skill or circumstances.


Wanna bet? Here within 1 second...:

Berger - Alesi 1995: 12-5
Berger - Alesi 1996: 3-13
No strategy et. al. involved.

And strategy may be your own wish/conclusion, but Vettel, Horner, Marko basically all RB guys said about the issue, that Vettel just struggled with the behaviour of the car - that´s it.

I am very curious as to how you think they were not that different.


Because Vettel had quite decent experience in an F1 car as well.

Edited by LiJu914, 17 January 2013 - 15:18.


#43 aditya-now

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 15:22

you just gotta adore how cute he is :cat: thinks he is now one of the big boys, and can unsettle the currently most succesfull one with 'mind games'. :rolleyes:


It's absolutely cute, and I'm going be impressed if and when he backs up his talk with deeds.


#44 karlth

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 15:31

It's obvious that Vettel gets no respect from his fellow drivers.

#45 Group B

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 15:40

Well it can't be much fun getting crushed race after race, year after year. Bound to cause a bit of resentment.

#46 mnmracer

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 15:42

Wanna bet? Here within 1 second...:

Berger - Alesi 1995: 12-5
Berger - Alesi 1996: 3-13

Over their entire career they have been extremely close. That's a case of flip-of-a-coin, not beaten-into-submission three years straight.
Context.
Anyway, I have no , so if you have no intention in an intelligible discussion within context, think whatever you want to think.

And strategy may be your own wish/conclusion, but Vettel, Horner, Marko basically all RB guys said about the issue, that Vettel just struggled with the behaviour of the car - that´s it.

He struggled, yet still had Webber beat on race pace in 17 races.
It's results that count, not how happy a driver is with a car.

Because Vettel had quite decent experience in an F1 car as well.

You expect a rookie to adapt to 3 different cars the same way as a rookie adapts to a car he spent the entire winter with.
Ignoring context again. Your game, not mine.

#47 Kyo

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 15:43

Wanna bet? Here within 1 second...:

Berger - Alesi 1995: 12-5
Berger - Alesi 1996: 3-13
No strategy et. al. involved.

And strategy may be your own wish/conclusion, but Vettel, Horner, Marko basically all RB guys said about the issue, that Vettel just struggled with the behaviour of the car - that´s it.



Because Vettel had quite decent experience in an F1 car as well.

And you could still include some more like

Rosberg - Schumacher 2010: 14-5
Rosberg - Schumacher 2011: 16-2
Rosberg - Schumacher 2012: 10-10

or

Trulli - Kovalainen 2010: 11-8
Trulli - Kovalainen 2010: 2-16

and I'm sure there is plenty more.

Obviously, if a driver is faster in the first year he will most likely keep showing the best results, but depending on how much a car suits a certain driver this can rapidly change.


#48 PretentiousBread

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 15:47

How dare he state an opinion? Close the thread, Perez only said this to troll the autosport forums and undermine the mods :down:

#49 fabr68

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 15:50

How dare he state an opinion? Close the thread, Perez only said this to troll the autosport forums and undermine the mods :down:


Cant wait for Vettel I mean Marko's reponse

#50 LiJu914

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 15:51

Over their entire career they have been extremely close. That's a case of flip-of-a-coin, not beaten-into-submission three years straight.
Context.


Yeah context...you missed it. You said, quali-results couldn´t swing so extreme without "strategy" being involved - and that´s just nonsense.

He struggled, yet still had Webber beat on race pace in 17 races.
It's results that count, not how happy a driver is with a car.


Context? We were talking about qualifying. And yes...the results count, so look at them....

You expect a rookie to adapt to 3 different cars the same way as a rookie adapts to a car he spent the entire winter with.
Ignoring context again. Your game, not mine.


Is was talking about experience in general - and not with the specific car. If that bothers you so much, then i might add, that the fact, that Vettel had to face Luizzi as a rookie and not Webber (like Nico had to) counterbalances that more than enough - or better say overcompensates.

Edited by LiJu914, 17 January 2013 - 15:53.