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Perez says Rosberg faster than Vettel


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#51 mnmracer

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 15:54

Yeah context...you missed it. You said, quali-results couldn´t swing so extreme without "strategy" being involved - and that´s just nonsense.

Flip-of-a-coin results can always swing one way or another.
Three years consecutive beatings are a whole different context. Don't play dumb.

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#52 LiJu914

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 16:01

Flip-of-a-coin results can always swing one way or another.
Three years consecutive beatings are a whole different context. Don't play dumb.


The context is about Rosberg´s potential against Webber. Were they three years together? Nope, but you still say that there would be little chance for Rosberg to beat him.

Another example:
R. Schumacher vs. Rookie Montoya: 11-6
2 seasons later Montoya had turned it to 3-9.

If you wanna act stubborn...fine, go ahead. I´m done with this topic now.

Edited by LiJu914, 17 January 2013 - 16:07.


#53 PretentiousBread

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 16:03

I remember Mark Hughes writing a while back that he didn't see Vettel do anything that he thought Rosberg wouldn't have been able to do with the car. I think in terms of outright speed that is correct. I don't think Rosberg is the same animal as Vettel though, I don't feel that he rises to pressure in the same way Vettel does.

I for one am expecting Rosberg to outqualify Hamilton plenty this year. If he doesn't, I think it would have to solidify Hamilton's tag as the 'fastest man in F1'.

#54 bub

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 16:14

Could be faster, could be slower, who knows? I think Rosberg is one of the faster guys out there so there probably isn't much between him and Vettel. I wonder what Schumacher or Webbers opinions would be?

#55 LiJu914

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 16:24

I for one am expecting Rosberg to outqualify Hamilton plenty this year.


I´d still be surprised if Hamilton would not be ahead in more qualifyings than the other way aorund. ROS will most likely be tougher opposition than Button in that discipline, but he isn´t bulletproof as last season showed. Ok...MSC was one of the best qualifyers in the last two decades - but he was 43, so imho it´s not too bolt to assume that HAM is above that level.

Edited by LiJu914, 17 January 2013 - 16:24.


#56 Winter98

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 16:28

It's obvious that Vettel gets no respect from his fellow drivers.


Watching some kid come along and win everything must suck. Perhaps they realize they can't beat him on the track, and are hoping they can beat him with mind games. So far that hasn't proven to be the case.

My prediction: If Vettel wins the next 2 WDCs, someone from a F1 team will say Bruno Senna is faster than Vettel. This will be a hotly debated topic.


#57 jjcale

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 16:36

Watching some kid come along and win everything must suck. Perhaps they realize they can't beat him on the track, and are hoping they can beat him with mind games. So far that hasn't proven to be the case.

My prediction: If Vettel wins the next 2 WDCs, someone from a F1 team will say Bruno Senna is faster than Vettel. This will be a hotly debated topic.


This argument might work for FA - but Perez has been in F1 for only two years and his career on a steep upward trajectory .... what is his reason for being jealous of SV??

#58 Winter98

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 16:49

This argument might work for FA - but Perez has been in F1 for only two years and his career on a steep upward trajectory .... what is his reason for being jealous of SV??


Sorry, got off topic replying to karlth. My bad.

#59 Fondmetal

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 16:55

Webber used to be one of the best qualifyers in F1. You dont lose that raw pace over night. I have a strong feeling of funny goings on in Redbull that gives Vettel thats edge in terms of car performance over Webber. We have seen few times where Webber has had to play second fiddle and also the famous wing incident. If they give Vettel that small margin Mark cannot complain like he has done so in the past.



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#60 PoleMan

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 16:56

Watching some kid come along and win everything must suck. Perhaps they realize they can't beat him on the track, and are hoping they can beat him with mind games. So far that hasn't proven to be the case.

My prediction: If Vettel wins the next 2 WDCs, someone from a F1 team will say Bruno Senna is faster than Vettel. This will be a hotly debated topic.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

What about the team principals? Are they acting like jealous girlfriend's, too, by NOT rating the WDC-winning driver "The Best" in 2 out of his 3 championship seasons, or are they just calling it as they see it?

I think it's statements like Perez' and the views of most of the pit lane, that drive Marko CRAZY...leaving him all upset and frothing at the mouth. Vettel's forum-warriors seem to suffer from this, too.

Vettel has EARNED HIS TITLES, no doubt, but he seems NOT to have earned the respect of his peers. :kiss:

Edited by PoleMan, 17 January 2013 - 16:56.


#61 P123

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 16:57

Well it can't be much fun getting crushed race after race, year after year. Bound to cause a bit of resentment.


I've no idea what makes Perez think Rosberg is the faster, but considering Perez has never really competed directly against Vettel I doubt it's based on any sort of resentment. Perhaps he bases it on Rosberg's record against Schumacher. Whatever the case, until they sit in the same car it's impossible to say for certain. There's not a lot difference in pace amongst most of the top drivers, but Vettel seems a more 'complete' driver than Rosberg.

#62 H2H

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 17:33

:confused: :confused: :confused:

What about the team principals? Are they acting like jealous girlfriend's, too, by NOT rating the WDC-winning driver "The Best" in 2 out of his 3 championship seasons, or are they just calling it as they see it?

I think it's statements like Perez' and the views of most of the pit lane, that drive Marko CRAZY...leaving him all upset and frothing at the mouth. Vettel's forum-warriors seem to suffer from this, too.

Vettel has EARNED HIS TITLES, no doubt, but he seems NOT to have earned the respect of his peers. :kiss:


You have clearly not understood that they rated Vettel the best in last five years, basically in all those years in which they have been asked to state their opinion. But in the end even that counts little compared to the 3 WDCs...

And to be honest I have a hard time to give the words of an inexperienced potential contender of the defending WDC any merit. Maybe he picked up something on the Latin side of F1, given that De la Rosa, Algesuari & Co voiced their opinion quite often of a certain other Latin driver... :lol:

Edited by H2H, 17 January 2013 - 17:34.


#63 aditya-now

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 17:37

Cant wait for Vettel I mean Marko's reponse


:lol:


Yes indeed! Go, Helmut, go!

#64 SunnyENTP

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 17:42

Perez playing mind games and trying to unsettle Vettel. I can see he has already started his McLaren PR duites in earnest :lol:

Edited by SunnyENTP, 17 January 2013 - 17:43.


#65 Winter98

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 18:02

:confused: :confused: :confused:

What about the team principals? Are they acting like jealous girlfriend's, too, by NOT rating the WDC-winning driver "The Best" in 2 out of his 3 championship seasons, or are they just calling it as they see it?


Considering this is F1, acting like jealous girlfriends wouldn't surprise me. It certainly wouldn't be the first time.

I think it's statements like Perez' and the views of most of the pit lane, that drive Marko CRAZY...leaving him all upset and frothing at the mouth.


Actually, I suspect it gives Marko a good laugh as he admires the three WDC and three WCC trophies in the case.


For all any of us know Rosberg might indeed be the faster driver. If he is, he has a long way to go to make his case.

Edited by Winter98, 17 January 2013 - 18:10.


#66 Sakae

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 18:04

No, Lewis is.

Based on anything else other than rumours on the internet?

#67 PoleMan

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 18:20

You have clearly not understood that they rated Vettel the best in last five years, basically in all those years in which they have been asked to state their opinion. But in the end even that counts little compared to the 3 WDCs...

And to be honest I have a hard time to give the words of an inexperienced potential contender of the defending WDC any merit. Maybe he picked up something on the Latin side of F1, given that De la Rosa, Algesuari & Co voiced their opinion quite often of a certain other Latin driver... :lol:

Nice avoidance. :cool:

Seems YOU understand, quite well, that in the years that Vettel actually won the championship, he was NOT RATED the top driver, which is why you expand to his NON-WDC years. :rotfl:

Fact is, Vettel is a 3xWDC, and the youngest ever to do so. What is equally true is that Red Bull was the DOMINANT CONSTRUCTOR during the same time period, and in only one of those years was Vettel's driving deemed the best. :cool:

I think Perez' statements, even as an F1 newbie, indicate some of the lack of regard with which Vettel is held in the paddock. No one thinks he's a bad driver, but more emphasis is placed on his Newey-Built rocket ship.

As you say, he can soothe his pain by gazing at his trifecta of WDC trophies, but it seems he'll have to wait a bit longer for respect from his peers. ;)

Edited by PoleMan, 17 January 2013 - 18:26.


#68 H2H

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 18:20

@Nycco:

Certainly not according to a kitchen floor in Switzerland....

;)

----
You are the guy drawing an arbitrary line. In any case even in the last three years he was 'just' by a small margin the second best driver of the circus. In any case over his full seasons in F1 he has been voted in the paddock as the best and has won 3 out 5 titles.

But to come back to Perez. As I said before and say again: I do not value much the words of the potential direct competitor, especially not a Latin (I'm Italian), but also not of other guys. It is often all a political game. Envy must be hard gained, pity is much easier to acquire.

Edited by H2H, 17 January 2013 - 18:30.


#69 Winter98

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 18:34

... he can soothe his pain by gazing at his trifecta of WDC trophies, but it seems he'll have to wait a bit longer for respect from his peers.;)


I bet being assured a spot amongst the legends of F1 soothes a lot of pain.

During the peak of MS' dominance, his many detractors would repeat the mantra that he had the speed, but lacked racecraft. Ten years later, and I suspect most would ridicule the suggestion.

Edited by Winter98, 17 January 2013 - 18:42.


#70 bub

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 18:37

But to come back to Perez. As I said before and say again: I do not value much the words of the potential direct competitor.


Just wondering, would you still not value his words if he said Vettel was faster?

#71 Winter98

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 18:48

Just wondering, would you still not value his words if he said Vettel was faster?


As another Vettel supporter, nope.

Edited by Winter98, 17 January 2013 - 18:48.


#72 jjcale

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 18:51

Based on anything else other than rumours on the internet?


http://www.planetf1....at-For-McLaren-
"He's probably the quickest guy I've ever raced alongside, one of the quickest Formula One has ever seen," Button said.

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105160
Alonso says Hamilton is still his strongest rival in Formula 1

:wave:

/fanboyism

:p

#73 PoleMan

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 18:54

@H2h and @Winter98,

The more you guys profess not to care about the lack of credit and respond "Yeah, but he's won 3WDCs," it becomes increasingly obvious how much you DO CARE! Same thing with Marko. :p

I understand "The STING" that must come from comments from unaccomplished drivers like Perez, not to mention the lack of respect shown by the overwhelming majority of the team managers in the pit lane. Must be a bit of an ego bruise.

Vettel has done what only 2 other drivers in F1 history have done, by winning 3 on the trot, but STILL, the respect does not come! :cry: Where's the LOVE? Where's the ADORATION??! :mad: Not his fault he's driven the MOST DOMINANT F1 car during that period. I'd be burned up as well, with people giving more credit to the car than my driving.

Reminds me of Mansell who also got the Rodney Dangerfield treatment when he won in the PEERLESS '92 Williams or Jacques Villeneuve in '97. Bummer! :D

I think if Sebastian keeps winning, he'll finally convince them...maybe.

Edited by PoleMan, 17 January 2013 - 19:15.


#74 Skinnyguy

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 18:55

I always thought Nico would join the top drivers group as soon as he got a top car. But we just don´t know. It´s a long shot from Perez.

#75 leojagpreet

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 18:59

Alonso's younger brother :)

#76 fabr68

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 19:00

You have clearly not understood that they rated Vettel the best in last five years, basically in all those years in which they have been asked to state their opinion. But in the end even that counts little compared to the 3 WDCs...

And to be honest I have a hard time to give the words of an inexperienced potential contender of the defending WDC any merit. Maybe he picked up something on the Latin side of F1, given that De la Rosa, Algesuari & Co voiced their opinion quite often of a certain other Latin driver... :lol:


An opinion is just that.

By the way. No. of WDCs do not automatically warrant fastest driver status. Just look at Michael Schumacher.

#77 Winter98

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 19:10

An opinion is just that.

By the way. No. of WDCs do not automatically warrant fastest driver status. Just look at Michael Schumacher.


Is MS no longer considered amongst the fastest drivers in the history of F1?

Edited by Winter98, 17 January 2013 - 19:24.


#78 flatlander48

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 19:14

Cant wait for Vettel I mean Marko's reponse



That's why folks think Vettel is such a nice guy. They just send the attack dog out to deal with the riff-raff and he never has to get soiled...

#79 Skinnyguy

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 19:19

By the way. No. of WDCs do not automatically warrant fastest driver status. Just look at Michael Schumacher.


Why you say something, to then tell us about a case showing exactly the opposite? :confused:

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#80 leojagpreet

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 19:25

An opinion is just that.

By the way. No. of WDCs do not automatically warrant fastest driver status. Just look at Michael Schumacher.


Michael Schumacher was fastest driver in his first career :)


#81 Winter98

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 19:29

Not his fault he's driven the MOST DOMINANT F1 car during that period. I'd be burned up as well, with people giving more credit to the car than my driving.


You say you would be really burned up by these comments, but I'm thinking Vettel is made of sterner stuff.

Edited by Winter98, 17 January 2013 - 19:30.


#82 jstrains

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 19:42

Just few days in a top team and already playing mind games. He is learning pretty fast :rotfl:

#83 Juan Kerr

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 19:56

http://www.motorspor...n-vettel-perez/



What makes Perez say such things, isn't Sebastian regarded as the fastest of this generation?

No Sebastian is not regarded as the fastest of this generation, ask Alonso he'll tell you and the rest of the drivers for that matter.

#84 Juan Kerr

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 20:07

It's obvious that Vettel gets no respect from his fellow drivers.

And the reason for that is that all the F1 fraternity that are unbiased regard Lewis Hamilton or should I say know that Lewis is the fastest on the grid. Of course everyone knows its not just about the driver you have to have the best designer the best team generally and even manufacturing standards with also driver management. Decisions have to be made and actions have to be taken outside of the drivers control because it is a team sport.
Lewis Hamilton is the fastest driver there has been in F1 since Michael Schumacher no-one else is at that level but there are many team leading drivers with better backroom staff enabling people such as Alonso and Vettel to win titles instead of Hamilton.
I hope that finishes all the debates on who is the fastest. All the experts already know the answer its just trying to persuade the lesser mortals who have other agenda based on their personal bias.
circumstances are far too powerful to ever be able to work out a magic formula that says who's gonna win the titles.


#85 BackOnTop

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 20:08

I'm a bit surprised by what Perez has said, and I'm even a Rosberg fan.

Still, it would be downright silly for any of us to doubt his words. Perez interacts with this guy on the track. What do we do? Watch them on TV. Big difference, so I'll listen to Perez. :)

What? You doubting what your eyes see on TV because a newcomer thinks he's suddenly become big enough to judge Vettel & German drivers. What makes him an expert on Germans in the first place lol.

If Perez calls Cheetah a Monkey thanks to his ignorance, I hope you don't believe that too.

What you see & hear is Live Races on the Racetrack. Believe it!

Edited by BackOnTop, 17 January 2013 - 20:14.


#86 Vesuvius

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 20:09

Well many have said Rosberg is the fastest driver over one lap, for example Norbert Haug and Alex Wurz who both have worked with lots of other drivers that have been thought to be one of the fastest.I also think Rosberg is one of the fastest if not the fastest driver over one lap and Hamilton will have tough battle ahead of him.

#87 BackOnTop

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 20:28

And the reason for that is that all the F1 fraternity that are unbiased regard Lewis Hamilton or should I say know that Lewis is the fastest on the grid. Of course everyone knows its not just about the driver you have to have the best designer the best team generally and even manufacturing standards with also driver management. Decisions have to be made and actions have to be taken outside of the drivers control because it is a team sport.
Lewis Hamilton is the fastest driver there has been in F1 since Michael Schumacher no-one else is at that level but there are many team leading drivers with better backroom staff enabling people such as Alonso and Vettel to win titles instead of Hamilton.
I hope that finishes all the debates on who is the fastest. All the experts already know the answer its just trying to persuade the lesser mortals who have other agenda based on their personal bias.
circumstances are far too powerful to ever be able to work out a magic formula that says who's gonna win the titles.

So when Schumi does it for 5 years (TP, Designer, Bridgestone et al), he's was the fastest... But same doesn't apply to Vettel. Hypocrisy at it's best. :rolleyes:

"Raikkonen is one of the fastest man on the planet"- Martin Whitmarsh, post Hangary 2012.

Fastest this & Fastest that is never stagnant in F1 & in fact varies from Race to Race instead of season to season as some want us to believe. The fastest driver in Australia might get humbled in Abu Dhabi...

#88 fabr68

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 20:31

Perez should be asked a lot more questions :lol:

#89 Sin

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 20:44

What? You doubting what your eyes see on TV because a newcomer thinks he's suddenly become big enough to judge Vettel & German drivers. What makes him an expert on Germans in the first place lol.


he lived in germany

#90 apoka

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 20:52

And the reason for that is that all the F1 fraternity that are unbiased regard Lewis Hamilton or should I say know that Lewis is the fastest on the grid. Of course everyone knows its not just about the driver you have to have the best designer the best team generally and even manufacturing standards with also driver management. Decisions have to be made and actions have to be taken outside of the drivers control because it is a team sport.
Lewis Hamilton is the fastest driver there has been in F1 since Michael Schumacher no-one else is at that level but there are many team leading drivers with better backroom staff enabling people such as Alonso and Vettel to win titles instead of Hamilton.
I hope that finishes all the debates on who is the fastest. All the experts already know the answer its just trying to persuade the lesser mortals who have other agenda based on their personal bias.
circumstances are far too powerful to ever be able to work out a magic formula that says who's gonna win the titles.

I am not sure whether even Hamilton fans would agree on this. By the way, how do you rate Rosberg vs. Vettel?



#91 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 20:58

Just few days in a top team and already playing mind games. He is learning pretty fast :rotfl:


It is easy to see that Perez has high hopes for next season and is taking aim at the expected main contender.

But this approach from Perez (and Alonso) is puzzling to me as it will only lead to Vettel being even more determined and become a bigger threat to repeat and take a 4th wdc. The better way has always been imo to praise the champion, tell them what they want to hear in the hopes that they will become complacent. And then if you end up on top you have beaten the top driver which only makes you look better.



#92 Juan Kerr

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 21:02

So when Schumi does it for 5 years (TP, Designer, Bridgestone et al), he's was the fastest... But same doesn't apply to Vettel. Hypocrisy at it's best. :rolleyes:

"Raikkonen is one of the fastest man on the planet"- Martin Whitmarsh, post Hangary 2012.

Fastest this & Fastest that is never stagnant in F1 & in fact varies from Race to Race instead of season to season as some want us to believe. The fastest driver in Australia might get humbled in Abu Dhabi...

Who said anything about Schumacher's circumstances? I suggest you read and think a bit more before commenting, Schumacher was regarded as the fastest driver in F1 for many different reasons and for a long time not just in the height of his Ferrari days. Carry on making outward gestures whilst others concentrate on carefully thinking about the players in F1 without being sucked into a blind religious belief.

#93 LiJu914

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 21:11

So when Schumi does it for 5 years (TP, Designer, Bridgestone et al), he's was the fastest... But same doesn't apply to Vettel. Hypocrisy at it's best. :rolleyes:


Nope, it just wasn´t the same. Schumacher was already 3xWDC before he got a dominant car under his buttocks for the first time.

Edited by LiJu914, 17 January 2013 - 21:11.


#94 fabr68

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 21:42

It is easy to see that Perez has high hopes for next season and is taking aim at the expected main contender.

But this approach from Perez (and Alonso) is puzzling to me as it will only lead to Vettel being even more determined and become a bigger threat to repeat and take a 4th wdc. The better way has always been imo to praise the champion, tell them what they want to hear in the hopes that they will become complacent. And then if you end up on top you have beaten the top driver which only makes you look better.


Well it is obvious that these type of comments have a huge negative effect on the Red Bull camp and Vettel fanbase. However I dont see how Perez would want to. play mind games with Vettel. It is more of an out of context provocative journalism.

Edited by fabr68, 17 January 2013 - 21:43.


#95 rijole1

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 22:59

Cant wait for Vettel I mean Marko's reponse

Yeah. I'll put a bet on Marko :D
He'll crush poor Perez with evil 'Markoisms'

#96 Mauseri

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 23:00

Nope, it just wasn´t the same. Schumacher was already 3xWDC before he got a dominant car under his buttocks for the first time.

Well, Vettel is already 1x 2nd and 3x champ in row and without having a dominant car under him. Ask Webber.

Edited by Mauseri, 17 January 2013 - 23:00.


#97 rijole1

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 23:07

Just few days in a top team and already playing mind games. He is learning pretty fast :rotfl:

:D So talented, hope he can also handle the coming counterattack...

Edited by rijole1, 17 January 2013 - 23:07.


#98 SNiko

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 00:23

The truth is that during their first seasons in F1, Roberg was more promising than Vettel. Moreover, Vettel was not much better than Speed. But then Vettel got the fastest car and had possibility to fight in front with best drivers, tuning his driving skills under continuous pressure of WDC contender, while Rosberg all these years was relaxed by driving slow car without any motivation, loosing his driving skills. It is another proof of how important for young driver is to receive a fast car in a right time. If Kimi wasn't signed by McLaren, Alonso by Renault, Vettel by Neway's RB, Hamilton by McLaren, Perez by McLaren, they would have the same fate as Heidfeld, Button (he should say thanks to Brown for rescue), Buemi, Rosberg and Kobayashi respectively.

#99 gricey1981

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:47

Vettel really must have every one rattled.

Im not the biggest fan but.... his record is mightlily impressive.

30odd poles dont just happen



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#100 mattferg

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 04:01

I'm really getting tired of these maddening driver comparison threads! They lead to nonsense like this:

Vettel > Webber (RB 2012)
Webber > Rosberg (Williams 2006)
Rosberg > Schumacher (Merc 2012)
Schumacher > Barrichello (Ferrari 2004)
Barrichello > Button (Honda 2008)
Button > Hamilton (McLaren 2011)
Hamilton > Alonso (McLaren 2007)

This logic therefore implies that Vettel is amazing and Hamilton and Alonso are worse than all the drivers > them by proxy. Now this is blown way out of proportion, but it just emphasises how silly all of this is, as it doesn't take into account age/injury/car preference or team orders.

Enough!