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Force India close to collapse? [split]


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#1 oscy23

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:17

Rumours aplenty that FI on verge of collapse amid Mallya’s financial woes"
Would make sense why they havent announced any drivers as yet.
Will be an interesting next few days if true


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#2 Rosberg

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:32

Rumours aplenty that FI on verge of collapse amid Mallya’s financial woes"
Would make sense why they havent announced any drivers as yet.
Will be an interesting next few days if true


Yeah I've been seeing this on Twitter recently. I really hope this isn't true! Although Bernie does want 10 teams on the grid.

Edited by Rosberg, 18 January 2013 - 09:32.


#3 noikeee

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:33

Rumours aplenty that FI on verge of collapse amid Mallya’s financial woes


That's quite a claim... source?

Would be absolutely awful to see the team fold after 22 successful years in F1 (under all their different guises), and a great comeback into the midfield after being dead last around 2003-2008. They even nearly won the very last race in Brazil. Surely this, errrrm, "alleged rumour" is bullshit? If it's not, I truly hope they find a buyer.

#4 Rosberg

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:36

That's quite a claim... source?

Would be absolutely awful to see the team fold after 22 successful years in F1 (under all their different guises), and a great comeback into the midfield after being dead last around 2003-2008. They even nearly won the very last race in Brazil. Surely this, errrrm, "alleged rumour" is bullshit? If it's not, I truly hope they find a buyer.


http://www.inautonew...a-crisis-report

Just read the last two paragraphs, I hope that ain't true!

#5 oscy23

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:38

That's quite a claim... source?



http://www.motorspor..._medium=twitter

#6 artista

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:41

That's quite a claim... source?

Would be absolutely awful to see the team fold after 22 successful years in F1 (under all their different guises), and a great comeback into the midfield after being dead last around 2003-2008. They even nearly won the very last race in Brazil. Surely this, errrrm, "alleged rumour" is bullshit? If it's not, I truly hope they find a buyer.

The original source, from where the English sites have taken it, is this one:

http://italiaracing....?id=38492&cat=1

#7 lustigson

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:48

If GMM is quoted as any story's original source, I've been advised to take that story with a grain of salt. Although it's not unthinkable that Force India collapses, mind you, or, more likely, sold to someone like Colin Kolles.

#8 artista

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:59

I'm still waiting to see a single case of GMM being the real original source of a story :p

Now seriously, the original author of the news is Massimo Costa, the editor of Italia Racing. If I'm not mistaken, he also works for Autosprint.

#9 oscy23

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:13

I'm still waiting to see a single case of GMM being the real original source of a story :p

Now seriously, the original author of the news is Massimo Costa, the editor of Italia Racing. If I'm not mistaken, he also works for Autosprint.


Correct.. he's a fairly reliable source.

Edited by oscy23, 18 January 2013 - 10:14.


#10 lustigson

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:17

Correct.. he's a fairly reliable source.

I'm not familiar with him, but I'll go with you. :)

It would be quite a coup if Kolles were to lead the Force India F1 Team again, considering that Midland, Spyker and HRT all either sold-out or folded altogether, shortly after he left said outfits. But I guess Ecclestone has more faith in Kolles than in Mallya.

#11 BackmarkerUK

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:26

It would be quite a coup if Kolles were to lead the Force India F1 Team again, considering that Midland, Spyker and HRT all either sold-out or folded altogether, shortly after he left said outfits. But I guess Ecclestone has more faith in Kolles than in Mallya.


I quite like Colin Kolles, I think if HRT had stuck with him and stayed in his shop in Germany, they could be lining up on the grid this season. I think he knows how to run a compact outfit on a tight budget, which could be ideal, even if the aim was only to keep the team ticking over until a proper buyer could be found.

#12 Hans V

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:35

If that rumor is true, which hardly would be surprising given the huge financial challenges the two owners face, the team could be a bargain for someone interested in entering F1. They must have a good organization with some rally good people that for the past seasons have managed to get a lot out relatively little. Anyway, this should accelrate the discussions on budget caps.

#13 katmen

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:40

hmm if true tha FI is in trouble, it is possible that diresta will be out of seat and paydriver in...

maybe china will be interested?

#14 Gintonious

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:50

Close to collapse? In Italian

Scarbs on twitter
"Hearing worrying news this morning about team finances ahead of the new season. Fingers crossed for a full grid"
"I'm not going to name the teams in rumoured financial trouble, I think they have enough to be focussing on."

Not good if true!

**Did a search on twitter and it's doing the rounds, oh dear.

Edited by Gintonious, 18 January 2013 - 10:52.


#15 BackmarkerUK

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:50

maybe china will be interested?


Oh no, not Ma Qing Hua :|


#16 Vickyy

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:51

I couldn't find tangibility in that news for quite a number of reasons: recently they were partnering with other businesses, Di Resta had seat fitting last weekend, and Joesaward would have been celebrating Christmas in January.

#17 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:55

Oh no, not Ma Qing Hua :|

Or if the Force India name is kept, it may be a lifeline for Karthikeyan :p !

#18 Rosberg

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:01

Maybe we will see Karun Chandhok and Narain Karthikeyan in the seats!

#19 peroa

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:08

Kolles is getting ready to play fireman again.

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#20 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:23

Maybe we will see Karun Chandhok and Narain Karthikeyan in the seats!

Lol Bernie would love that. Wasn't too long ago he was lobbying Mallya to take Narain for this season :drunk: . Perhaps the only good thing Mallya did was selecting good, solid drivers.

Source: motorsport.com
Italiaracing also mentioned the former Renault chief and well-known Ecclestone ally Flavio Briatore, who has been out of F1 since the 'crashgate' scandal.

He's been linked to Paladini's Birmingham City takeover, but I hope this rumour is true as it means he'll leave Birmingham alone and not mess 'em about like QPR :)

#21 Rosberg

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:26

He's been linked to Paladini's Birmingham City takeover, but I hope this rumour is true as it means he'll leave Birmingham alone and not mess 'em about like QPR :)


Can't be any worse than our current owner Carson Yeung!

Anyways back to the topic, If Force India was to go out of the sport, I think we will see Paul Di Resta being a test driver for Mercedes.

#22 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:38

Can't be any worse than our current owner Carson Yeung!

True, Carson is just terrible. All I meant with Flavio is he seems a bit unstable with football owenership, like asking the QPR fans 'who booed him otherwise he'd sell the club' and sacking about 5 managers in 5 months lol (slight exaggeration).

Anyways back to the topic, If Force India was to go out of the sport, I think we will see Paul Di Resta being a test driver for Mercedes.

For good and bad reasons, this seems to be the silly season that keeps on giving. We're now speculation whether another good, solid driver is on his way out :well: .

#23 aray

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:41

Lol Bernie would love that. Wasn't too long ago he was lobbying Mallya to take Narain for this season :drunk: . Perhaps the only good thing Mallya did was selecting good, solid drivers.


He's been linked to Paladini's Birmingham City takeover, but I hope this rumour is true as it means he'll leave Birmingham alone and not mess 'em about like QPR :)

He must have done more than that...the team was a backmarker when he bought it....it is now a solid mid-field team........they were solid drivers working with a good machine.....

i doubt that Mallya will quit that easily though.....
He is not even ready to fold up his airline business...compared to that cost of running FI is peanut...:smoking:

Edited by aray, 18 January 2013 - 11:45.


#24 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:45

He must have done more than that...the team was a backmarker when he bought it....it is now a solid mid-field team........they were solid drivers working with a good machine.....

That's true. All I meant was that he never settled for poor pay drivers (although is Di Resta one because of Mercedes connections?) like other back-markers.

#25 MustangSally

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 12:14

I quite like Colin Kolles, I think if HRT had stuck with him and stayed in his shop in Germany, they could be lining up on the grid this season. I think he knows how to run a compact outfit on a tight budget, which could be ideal, even if the aim was only to keep the team ticking over until a proper buyer could be found.


Would Kolles really want the job again? It can't have been that rewarding nursing HRT.

By the way, Scarbs tweets that it is 'teams' (plural) in trouble. Marussia in problems too? A huge amount of debt to service there.

If it's going to be about pay drivers, then Senna and Razia are reported to have the most money. But Kolles and Senna didn't get on at all, as far as I remember.




#26 Risil

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 12:55

That's true. All I meant was that he never settled for poor pay drivers (although is Di Resta one because of Mercedes connections?) like other back-markers.


Whatever Di Resta is, he's not a pay driver.

Negotiating the tech partnership with Mclaren, while other tie-ups like Toro Rosso's and Super Aguri's were falling behind or folding, was a very shrewd move on Force India's part. And of course it's the old Jordan team. They're race-winners.

#27 lustigson

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 13:08

... of course it's the old Jordan team. They're race-winners.

Championship contenders, even.

They should've kept the Jordan name, though. (Just like I think Red Bull should have named Scuderia Toro Rosso 'Red Bull Minardi Junior Team' or something along those lines.) Perhaps Kolles can use it once more? Heck, he could get EJ on board as consultant.;)

#28 onewingedangel

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 13:16

If it's going to be about pay drivers, then Senna and Razia are reported to have the most money.


If only they could club their major sponsors together and persuade them to take a stakeholding rather than mere sponsorship - Força Brasil!

#29 billm99uk

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 13:27

Getting to the grid would be nice, let alone 5th. Getting to the grid without pay drivers, even better!


#30 artista

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 13:57

The story is gone. Italia Racing has taken it away from the web

#31 BoschKurve

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 14:03

Close to collapse? In Italian

Scarbs on twitter
"Hearing worrying news this morning about team finances ahead of the new season. Fingers crossed for a full grid"
"I'm not going to name the teams in rumoured financial trouble, I think they have enough to be focussing on."

Not good if true!

**Did a search on twitter and it's doing the rounds, oh dear.


The link no longer exists.

I didn't know 11 teams was being called a full grid now? Full is 13.

But that aside, I can't imagine it'd be anyone other than Force India. It'd definitely explain why they haven't announced a second driver yet.

#32 BoschKurve

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 14:08

In another topic someone posted a link to another story regarding a possible Force India collapse, the site it was on no longer has the news up.

Interesting...

#33 lustigson

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 14:11

The story is gone. Italia Racing has taken it away from the web

Interesting. GrandPrix.com had actually just picked it up.

#34 D.M.N.

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 15:33

AUTOSPORT article, 'no substance to it' according to Bob Fernley: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105185

#35 Sumant

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 15:52

AUTOSPORT article, 'no substance to it' according to Bob Fernley: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105185


That settles it then...Looking forward for the launch.

#36 Fastcake

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 16:33

AUTOSPORT article, 'no substance to it' according to Bob Fernley: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105185


Although there's always the old adage if it's denied that quickly it's probably true  ;)

#37 Imperial

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 16:53

Correct me me with a solid link if I am wrong, but I don't believe Paul di Resta has been confirmed yet, despite all the talk now only mentioning who will be the teams second driver. Not a coincidence presumably.

Last week amongst the ASI news links I recall one saying di Resta's seat fitting was done, but another saying he was frustrated not to have been confirmed yet.

Force India have nothing to lose by waiting. I'm not convinced they are about to close, but I do find it possible a well-backed driver may disappoint di Resta before the season starts, even after testing has started maybe.

#38 BoschKurve

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 17:41

FI says they won't be announcing a second driver till after they reveal the VJ06.

I do think they have financial difficulties and may be in the middle of trying to milk as much money out of whoever they sign for seat 2. I can see where the rumors of Bruno Senna being the 2nd driver might have gotten started.

#39 Les

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 17:50

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105187

This article seems to indicate Di Resta is confirmed. First time I've heard that. Anyway it seems a bit of a shambles.

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#40 leojagpreet

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 18:28

Rumours aplenty that FI on verge of collapse amid Mallya’s financial woes"
Would make sense why they havent announced any drivers as yet.
Will be an interesting next few days if true



Vijay Mallya will get reward of what he has done in the past...he has a image of woman eater & not many people like him in India. So I guess karma is biting him back for his past wrong doings.

Eventhough I will still like to see Force India in F1 with some other big indian businesses like Sahara Force India Jaguar (Jaguar is own by indian company TATA) or Reliance etc.

I will also like Karun Chandhok to drive one of F1 cars as well, as I think he did quite good when he was in lotus f1 team.

#41 Imperial

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 19:06

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105187

This article seems to indicate Di Resta is confirmed. First time I've heard that. Anyway it seems a bit of a shambles.


This is what I mean. The 2nd seat keeps being mentioned, but since his complaint last weekend that he hasn't been confirmed there has still been no story announcing this has changed.

I wouldn't have even realised he is (apparently) out of contract had he himself not mentioned it at ASI.

#42 Fastcake

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 20:12

I will also like Karun Chandhok to drive one of F1 cars as well, as I think he did quite good when he was in lotus f1 team.


That's either sarcasm or you were watching Chandhok play F12010.

This is what I mean. The 2nd seat keeps being mentioned, but since his complaint last weekend that he hasn't been confirmed there has still been no story announcing this has changed.

I wouldn't have even realised he is (apparently) out of contract had he himself not mentioned it at ASI.


Most people seem to be under the impression Paul's got a contract but FI are waiting on the second driver to announce them.

Edited by Fastcake, 18 January 2013 - 20:13.


#43 MustangSally

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 23:19

Although there's always the old adage if it's denied that quickly it's probably true ;)


Hmmmm . . . article pulled . . .

Maybe someone's legal eagles threatened to sue?




#44 skinnylizard

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 06:21

Kingfisher Airlines is a terrible case of mis-management, however even with its troubles, VJM himself is still the majority owner of 3 other publicly listed companies in India and still has a net worth of close to $600-$800 million based on those holdings.

He has another sports venture which is the IPL team which is more or less carrying on. His sale of Force India to Sahara was a shrewd move as it did take the burden off himself. Sahara too has an IPL team and its own issues with Indian regulators regarding its finances, a complex story which i wont get into here but solvency is not their problem.

KF was looking tor relaunch operations within 30 days as a smaller leaner airline with an investment of $100million + from VJM's UB group. as frequent flier in the erstwhile days, i got an email to the effect regarding ticketing and prices.

the only trouble i would see here is that a lot of sponsors on the team are part of the UB group and that would be the only red flag. Since he is more than solvent and the other businesses are doing pretty well, i personally don't see Force India shutting doors at all.

but that is just what i make of it.

#45 Imperial

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:52

Most people seem to be under the impression Paul's got a contract but FI are waiting on the second driver to announce them.


Curiously last weekend Autosport.com ran the story I mentioned (di Resta saying he is a bit frustrated Force India haven't signed a contract with him yet), but looking through the F1 news timesline the story no longer appears.

Autosport are pissing me off more and more with stuff like this. Along with the claim on the Motorsport website that Autosport dropped a feature, at the request of Mclaren, where a Mclaren director was quoted praising Vettel over Button and Hamilton, I'm starting to view this website more and more as a press
release outlet rather than a company that employs journalists.

#46 pacificquay

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 14:13

The only di Resta frustrated story I've seen lately is about missing out on Ferrari/McLaren/Mercedes seats.

Not seen anything of the other one you mention - and I have been looking.

Are you sure you haven't made it up?

#47 Imperial

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 15:24

The only di Resta frustrated story I've seen lately is about missing out on Ferrari/McLaren/Mercedes seats.

Not seen anything of the other one you mention - and I have been looking.

Are you sure you haven't made it up?


Yeah mate it was there last weekend and, as stated, no longer is.

#48 Morbus

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 15:31

I remember it too. So I can vouch for you.

#49 Imperial

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 15:39

I remember it too. So I can vouch for you.


:up:

#50 schumimercamg

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 19:15

Maybe this explains Hulk's arguably strange move to Sauber?