Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Force India close to collapse? [split]


  • Please log in to reply
148 replies to this topic

#51 SUPRAF1

SUPRAF1
  • Member

  • 366 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 19 January 2013 - 20:12

If this was true then you can be sure Joe Saward would have been all over it :rotfl:

Advertisement

#52 Sin

Sin
  • Member

  • 1,961 posts
  • Joined: December 12

Posted 19 January 2013 - 20:21

Link

it's Bild but they are writing as if it is pretty sure that Sutil will join FI again... but you can never trust Bild lemme translate anyway:


Force India: Is Di Resta suddenly a doubtful case?

While the return of Adrian Sutil to Force India is as good as certain, Paul Di Resta could loose his cockpit at a change of the team owner.

Force India is next to Caterham the only team, that still has to give away a cockpit for 2013, because so far only Paul di Resta is confirmed. For weeks now Adrian Sutil has been a hot candidate for the second seat. But after informations of 'Motorsport-Total.com' di Resta also shouldn't be 100% certain about his case.

Those responsible are maybe waiting with the announcement, because of the possible change in ownership, even if the Team is energically denying being sold to investors lead by Colin Kolles, and persons around Vijay Mallya don't think that the indian businessman will quit.
Besides of that all affected people believably assure, that the economic crisis of some Mallya-businesses has no effects on the financial stability of the Formula 1 team.

The driver pairing will be announced "Hopefully and probably before the first test.", says the vice team boss Robert Fernley towards 'Motorsport-Total.com'. It would be "very improbable", that no candidate would be evaluated at the test drives in february, but it would be a lot more "probable", that the name will be announced beforehand. The presentation on February 1st in Silverstone "will be only about presenting the VJM06", Fernley makes clear.

That di Resta will be still wearing a Force India Overall then is after informations of 'Motorsport-Total.com' in no way cut in stone. Sutil has signed his Grand Prix contract for 2013 just as the Briton, but brings, just like it has been in the past sponsor money. If it really would come to a change of ownership, Investors want to hire next to Sutil a financial lucrative paydriver and because di Resta is not bringing any considerable sponsor money, he could be kicked out despite contract.

((thats my translation tried to be as close to the text as possible and hope I didnt make too many mistakes))

Edit: here is the motorsport-total.com original text that Bild used Link

Edited by Sin, 20 January 2013 - 13:58.


#53 mattferg

mattferg
  • Member

  • 847 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 19 January 2013 - 21:46

Link

it's Bild but they are writing as if it is pretty sure that Sutil will join FI again... but you can never trust Bild lemme translate anyway:

Force India: Is Di Resta suddenly a doubtful case?

While the return of Adrian Sutil to Force India is as good as certain, Paul Di Resta could loose his cockpit at a change of the team owner.

Force India is next to Caterham the only team, that still has to give away a cockpit for 2013, because so far only Paul di Resta is confirmed. For weeks now Adrian Sutil is a hot candidate for the second seat. But after informations of 'Motorsport-Total.com' di Resta also shouldn't be 100% certain about his case.

Those responsible are maybe waiting with the announcement, because of the possible change in ownership, even if the Team is energically denying being sold at investors lead by Colin Kolles, and persons around Vijay Mallya don't think that the indian businessman will quit.
Besides of that all affected people believably assure, that the economic crisis of some Mallya-businesses has no effects on the financial stability of the Formula 1 team.

The driver pairing will be announced "Hopefully and probably before the first test.", says the vice team boss Robert Fernley towards 'Motorsport-Total.com'. It would be "very improbable", that no candidate would be evaluated at the test drives in february, but it would be a lot more "probable", that the name will be announced beforehand. The presentation on February 1st in Silverstone "will be only about presenting the VJM06", Fernley makes clear.

That di Resta will be still wearing a Force India Overall then is after informations of 'Motorsport-Total.com' in no way cut in stone. Sutil has signed his Grand Prix contract for 2013 just as the Briton, but brings, just like it was in the past sponsor money. If it really would come to a change of ownership, Investors want to hire next to Sutil a financial lucrative paydriver and because di Resta is not bringing any considerable sponsor money, he could be kicked out despite contract.


((thats my translation tried to be as close to the text as possible and hope I didnt make too many mistakes))

Edit: here is the motorsport-total.com original text that Bild used Link


My bet's on Bruno Senna if they want to choose another pay driver.

#54 Kingshark

Kingshark
  • Member

  • 2,944 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 19 January 2013 - 22:03

I hope not. They are my favorite midfield team. The only non-top team who always choose talent over money. It'd be a shame to lose them.

#55 mattferg

mattferg
  • Member

  • 847 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 19 January 2013 - 22:27

I hope not. They are my favorite midfield team. The only non-top team who always choose talent over money. It'd be a shame to lose them.


Wasn't Sutil kinda rubbish but brought in a load of money?

#56 Kingshark

Kingshark
  • Member

  • 2,944 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 19 January 2013 - 23:01

Wasn't Sutil kinda rubbish but brought in a load of money?

And they replaced him with a guy that had no sponsors but a lot of talent.

Plus, I certainly wouldn't go as far as calling Sutil "rubbish".

#57 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 2,876 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 19 January 2013 - 23:10

And load of money is not quite right either is it?

#58 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 19 January 2013 - 23:26

Hulk must be congratulating himself for getting out of there.

#59 Sin

Sin
  • Member

  • 1,961 posts
  • Joined: December 12

Posted 20 January 2013 - 07:32

I am a bit surprised about the Grand Prix Contract thing signed by Sutil.... I don't know exactly what that is.... does that mean he signed the contract to drive for next season already? that is where the Motorsport-Total article confused me

Advertisement

#60 KingB

KingB
  • Member

  • 324 posts
  • Joined: August 12

Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:57

He has. But they won't announce it until the owner is clear. Kolles has some investors who made an offer and now it's Mallya's turn. In case the new investors are in charge they likely want a driver who brings money. So they would kick di Resta out who doesn't bring any cash and stick with Sutil and another guy.

#61 eric2610

eric2610
  • Member

  • 62 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 20 January 2013 - 11:13

So if the Rumor is correct Sutil and Bianchi in and di Resta out.


Poor little guy.... Haha I like it, always thought di Resta was totally overrated

#62 KingB

KingB
  • Member

  • 324 posts
  • Joined: August 12

Posted 20 January 2013 - 11:25

It doesn't have to be Bianchi...imagine all the Kolles drivers ;)
Kolles said Narain is the most reliable driver in terms of paying money. And Bernie wants an Indian at FI. And rumors said that FI asked Bernie for help....

So who knows, who knows....

#63 Francesc

Francesc
  • Member

  • 2,393 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:11

What's clear is if Kolles takes over the team Senna will never drive one of their cars.

#64 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 11,829 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:19

Where would Kolles get the money to buy a mid-field F1 team? I didn't think dentistry paid THAT well.

#65 wj_gibson

wj_gibson
  • Member

  • 2,326 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:22

Where would Kolles get the money to buy a mid-field F1 team? I didn't think dentistry paid THAT well.


He is evidently connected to some money in some way, but I'm not sure anyone from the journalistic world has ever really investigated precisely how.

#66 Dolph

Dolph
  • Member

  • 5,068 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:24

What's clear is if Kolles takes over the team Senna will never drive one of their cars.


Why?

#67 W154

W154
  • Member

  • 344 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:32

If you want to know what is happening at FI start reading the business news not the motoring news. Been following the financial problems of VM for last 6 months or so. Unless Senna is bringing hundreds of millions of money with him, VM is personally down the gurgler. FI need a stable financial backer urgently.

#68 DutchQuicksilver

DutchQuicksilver
  • Member

  • 2,091 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:52

I find this whole Force India is about to collapse story very strange. Didn't they receive a 60 million cash injection at the end of last year? Surely the team can't collapse just one month after this.

#69 Monstrobolaxa

Monstrobolaxa
  • Member

  • 187 posts
  • Joined: April 04

Posted 20 January 2013 - 13:00

Vijay is having financial issues. Sahara also did some illegal stuff and has to pay back millions to customers.

By Spain they had spend twice what they had in the same period the previous year.

Around that time the CATIA and FLUENT licenses expired and they didn't have them for a few days. Salaries started being paid from an account called: "Jordan Grand Prix".

#70 Francesc

Francesc
  • Member

  • 2,393 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 20 January 2013 - 13:00

Why?


Kolles never liked Bruno. When in Hispania he tried to find a way to break Bruno's contract, and he made sure that Bruno didn't get the best material. Even replaced him for a race with Yamamoto.


#71 WhatOh

WhatOh
  • Member

  • 98 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 20 January 2013 - 18:37

Kolles never liked Bruno. When in Hispania he tried to find a way to break Bruno's contract, and he made sure that Bruno didn't get the best material. Even replaced him for a race with Yamamoto.


How comes?

#72 jcbc3

jcbc3
  • Member

  • 5,148 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 20 January 2013 - 19:12

Kolles didn't like Senna's driving. Figuring he could get Yamamoto's money for no perceptible drop-off in performance he made the switch.

#73 study

study
  • Member

  • 2,452 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 20 January 2013 - 19:14

Vijay is having financial issues. Sahara also did some illegal stuff and has to pay back millions to customers.

By Spain they had spend twice what they had in the same period the previous year.

Around that time the CATIA and FLUENT licenses expired and they didn't have them for a few days. Salaries started being paid from an account called: "Jordan Grand Prix".


eh? really?


#74 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 37,654 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 20 January 2013 - 19:31

He's been linked to Paladini's Birmingham City takeover, but I hope this rumour is true as it means he'll leave Birmingham alone and not mess 'em about like QPR :)

That seems to have been wishful (or stereotypical) journalistic thinking. Paladini is closer to the Zulus than Fab Flav.

Where would Kolles get the money to buy a mid-field F1 team? I didn't think dentistry paid THAT well.

Ain't THAT the tooth.

#75 Imperial

Imperial
  • Member

  • 2,750 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 20 January 2013 - 21:48

I find this whole Force India is about to collapse story very strange. Didn't they receive a 60 million cash injection at the end of last year? Surely the team can't collapse just one month after this.


I haven't heard that particular story before, but I do know that 'cash injection' is a phrase almost always used long after a budget has been allocated but not yet delivered. Governments often gtab headlines with this phrase, despite sometimes the previous government having agreed to it some time before.

What I'm saying is, even if there is something to that story I imagine it was a long planned budget allocation, not a benefactor dipping their hands into the petty cash box. The money also may well have been spent in advance of receiving it.

Edited by Imperial, 20 January 2013 - 21:49.


#76 Imperial

Imperial
  • Member

  • 2,750 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 20 January 2013 - 21:51

Kolles didn't like Senna's driving. Figuring he could get Yamamoto's money for no perceptible drop-off in performance he made the switch.


I believe Senna caught the wrath of Kolles for criticising the team in some correspondence.

#77 BoschKurve

BoschKurve
  • Member

  • 1,153 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 20 January 2013 - 21:57

They should sell Force India to the good folks in Ingolstad. An Audi entry into F1 would be sensational and would likely cause a heart attack in Stuttgart.

#78 William Hunt

William Hunt
  • Member

  • 3,406 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 20 January 2013 - 22:29

Kolles said Narain is the most reliable driver in terms of paying money. And Bernie wants an Indian at FI. And rumors said that FI asked Bernie for help....


I'm wondering (bit off topic since this is actually the Force India threat): if Narain is such a reliable payer and assuming he still has a lot of backing, why couldn't he move to Marussia to take Timo's seat? Marussia seems to need the cash.

#79 Sin

Sin
  • Member

  • 1,961 posts
  • Joined: December 12

Posted 20 January 2013 - 22:29

or to Porsche :o they got a test track built by Tilke right here outside of my city :)

Advertisement

#80 karne

karne
  • Member

  • 2,040 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 20 January 2013 - 23:15

Kolles never liked Bruno. When in Hispania he tried to find a way to break Bruno's contract, and he made sure that Bruno didn't get the best material. Even replaced him for a race with Yamamoto.


Question: How long has Colin Kolles been in F1? More to the point...did he ever have any involvement with Ayrton Senna?

#81 BackmarkerUK

BackmarkerUK
  • Member

  • 344 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 20 January 2013 - 23:30

Question: How long has Colin Kolles been in F1? More to the point...did he ever have any involvement with Ayrton Senna?


No, he got involved in F1 in 2004 when he joined Jordan. Before that he was a team owner in F3.

#82 karne

karne
  • Member

  • 2,040 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 21 January 2013 - 01:31

No, he got involved in F1 in 2004 when he joined Jordan. Before that he was a team owner in F3.


Good-o, just checking there wasn't some long-running grudge that Kolles was carrying over and taking out on the nephew...

#83 packapoo

packapoo
  • Member

  • 731 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 21 January 2013 - 06:30

They should sell Force India to the good folks in Ingolstad. An Audi entry into F1 would be sensational and would likely cause a heart attack in Stuttgart.


Man, I LOVE your thinking! :up: :up:

#84 packapoo

packapoo
  • Member

  • 731 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 21 January 2013 - 06:34

I find this whole Force India is about to collapse story very strange. Didn't they receive a 60 million cash injection at the end of last year? Surely the team can't collapse just one month after this.


Well let's just hypothesize; say they owed 600 million and received a cash injection of 10%. There's still a shiteload of a shortfall.
Get the drift?


#85 vas04614

vas04614
  • Member

  • 329 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:40

They should sell Force India to the good folks in Ingolstad. An Audi entry into F1 would be sensational and would likely cause a heart attack in Stuttgart.

Ans also to Indian Fans, Hope FI stays put :) .

#86 Peat

Peat
  • Member

  • 1,342 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:44

Why would Audi, a brand that prides itself on ingenuity and technology want to get involved in a spec series like F1?

{EDIT: Realise i have just tripped myself up as they are in DTM....)

Edited by Peat, 21 January 2013 - 08:45.


#87 JRizzle86

JRizzle86
  • Member

  • 2,087 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 21 January 2013 - 09:06

Why would Audi, a brand that prides itself on ingenuity and technology want to get involved in a spec series like F1?

{EDIT: Realise i have just tripped myself up as they are in DTM....)


LMP1 is pretty much a spec series too to be honest.

#88 Victor_RO

Victor_RO
  • RC Forum Host

  • 2,842 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 21 January 2013 - 09:23

LMP1 is pretty much a spec series too to be honest.


<ot>
It's not. You can run petrol or diesel engines, hybrid or non-hybrid, tire width may differ from car to car, cars can be open-top or closed-top (for now, closed-top only from 2014), and the list goes on.
</ot>

#89 JRizzle86

JRizzle86
  • Member

  • 2,087 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 21 January 2013 - 10:17

<ot>
It's not. You can run petrol or diesel engines, hybrid or non-hybrid, tire width may differ from car to car, cars can be open-top or closed-top (for now, closed-top only from 2014), and the list goes on.
</ot>


See how I said "pretty much" a spec series, i still stand by it, it is going the way of F1 and others by adding unwanted restrictions. Yeah you could run a petrol engine if you want, but you won't win unless they get the equivalence completely wrong. It isn't a spec series by F1 standards but it is getting there and definitely by comparison to Le Mans years gone by.

#90 jcbc3

jcbc3
  • Member

  • 5,148 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:18

I am with Victor on this. By your definition '4 enclosed wheels' make it a spec series.

#91 MustangSally

MustangSally
  • Member

  • 372 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:51

Some grim news about Kingfisher on Reuters recently.

Creditors are circling.

Jets are being repossessed.


#92 DS27

DS27
  • Member

  • 1,130 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 05 February 2013 - 13:30

God Damn - what am I supposed to drink next time I go for out for a curry

#93 JRizzle86

JRizzle86
  • Member

  • 2,087 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 05 February 2013 - 13:32

God Damn - what am I supposed to drink next time I go for out for a curry


Diageo already have a majority stake, they will just buy out the rest.

#94 F1ultimate

F1ultimate
  • Member

  • 2,921 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 05 February 2013 - 20:23

Some grim news about Kingfisher on Reuters recently.

Creditors are circling.

Jets are being repossessed.


I'm not to sure that will affect the F1 team which should be a completely separate subsidiary independent of the airline, I would guess?

#95 MustangSally

MustangSally
  • Member

  • 372 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 05 February 2013 - 21:05

I'm not to sure that will affect the F1 team which should be a completely separate subsidiary independent of the airline, I would guess?


Ok. You are F1 team and both of your major sponsors have gone bust for zillions.

How can this not affect you?



#96 skinnylizard

skinnylizard
  • Member

  • 9,639 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:53

I'm not to sure that will affect the F1 team which should be a completely separate subsidiary independent of the airline, I would guess?


i am sure it has some affect on the team but not to the extent that they have to shut down. i do think they will have to start singing for their supper with other sponsors sooner or later as i don't see the old level of sponsorship coming through from United Spirits once Diageo take over.

#97 skinnylizard

skinnylizard
  • Member

  • 9,639 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:54

Ok. You are F1 team and both of your major sponsors have gone bust for zillions.

How can this not affect you?


both sponsors? only Kingfisher Airlines has gone under and even there i don't think the airline was ever sponsoring the team.. i think it was the Beer which is a separate, publicly listed entity.

#98 skinnylizard

skinnylizard
  • Member

  • 9,639 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:56

Diageo already have a majority stake, they will just buy out the rest.



Diageo has a stake in the Liquor arm which owns Whyte & McKay, Heiniken owns a chunk of United Breweries which owns Kingfisher. Separate, publicly listed entities.

#99 bspec

bspec
  • Member

  • 34 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:55

Here is the news for the other half of Sahara Force india group

The Securities and Exchange Board of India (frequently abbreviated SEBI) is the regulator for the securities market in India
SEBI free to seize properties of Sahara companies for defying court: SC
http://timesofindia....ow/18368788.cms

Also Shara Group is also under scrutiny from Provident fund
http://articles.econ...-provident-fund

Advertisement

#100 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,702 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 06 February 2013 - 14:14

Kingfisher(airline) has never made a profit so they aren't really dragging down the team. Though if he has to offset huge loses by selling other bits of the group that may cause a problem.