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Paddy Lowe to Mercedes?


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#801 study

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 23:14

McLaren are very bitter, but at the end of the day, its all their own fault.

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#802 jrg19

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 23:17

Claws have certainly come out on Mr Lowe.

#803 study

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 23:22

As with Lewis when he left, which started with bitter statements from Whitmarsh and Jenson, the cartoon where he was erased out of and the when showing the MP4-28 trying omit mention of Lewis's name where possible, McLaren only further make themselves look desperate.

I wonder who Whitmarsh is accountable to and if he's questioned why everyones fleeing from his command and the terrible performance last when they did eveything they could to throw away the championships.

#804 MP422

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:02

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105709

Sounds like he will be a loss to Macca...

#805 Xeriks

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:14

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105709

Sounds like he will be a loss to Macca...

It's definitely a blow, I've seen a few posts from Mclaren fans that are making out Paddy Lowe leaving Mclaren is a good thing, you must be incredibly deluded to think that way.

I'm in the camp that is happy to see him join Mercedes, since it can only be a good thing for Hamilton's chances, but on the other side, I'm slightly worried about Mclaren and the way important people always seem to leave.

Being a fan of Mclaren / Hamilton is pretty weird in this situation.

#806 vlado

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 06:25

I think all this goes back to the fact that Mercedes couldn't buy a majority stake in McLaren when they wanted to.. Now they are kind of trying to create their own McLaren I guess..

I really like Hamilton, and I wish them good luck, but it will be very hard to get on McLaren's level, and even harder to sustain it.

#807 britishtrident

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:57

it strikes me the team that could make best use of Brawn is Mclaren.

#808 Rinehart

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:25

McLaren are very bitter, but at the end of the day, its all their own fault.


I don't think its anyones fault. Its just life. Many times rival teams have poached McLarens top people from Newey to Lowe, and will do so again in the future. It means that McLaren have in the past and continue to recruit and develop top people.

#809 Rinehart

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:26

it strikes me the team that could make best use of Brawn is Mclaren.


I was bashed for suggesting this 6 weeks ago. I still think its a possibility. Match made in heaven reckon.

#810 ZooL

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:39

it strikes me the team that could make best use of Brawn is Mclaren.

Indeed because Whitmarsh has been very poor and their has been an exodus of genuises on his watch when it should be the other way around.

Infact I think Whitmarsh despises geniuses based on historic accounts, such as him suffocating Newey also.

#811 ZooL

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:43

I don't think its anyones fault. Its just life. Many times rival teams have poached McLarens top people from Newey to Lowe, and will do so again in the future. It means that McLaren have in the past and continue to recruit and develop top people.

Yeah I agree McLaren seem to be good at getting young talent. There's things they do that are better than others such as close association with universities.
The matrix structure also helps them in this regard but it's also their downfall because I don't believe its the best way to win in F1. In fact I don't think McLaren is about winning anymore, its more about being sustainable in the long term, not relying too much on 1 guy.

#812 boldhakka

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:47

In fact I don't think McLaren is about winning anymore, its more about being sustainable in the long term, not relying too much on 1 guy.


I think it's about winning while remaining sustainable over the long term. They're doing surprisingly well with their approach. They didn't even blink when Newey left, just kept cranking out competetive cars. I like it.

#813 BernieEc

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:06

McLaren says Mercedes wooed Lowe with ‘exotic salary’

The McLaren PR Machine in full combat mode, they make it sound like he's a hooker who got enamoured with what a sugar daddy had to offer

http://www.gptoday.c...tic_salary8217/

#814 f1rules

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:20

McLaren says Mercedes wooed Lowe with ‘exotic salary’

The McLaren PR Machine in full combat mode, they make it sound like he's a hooker who got enamoured with what a sugar daddy had to offer

http://www.gptoday.c...tic_salary8217/



actually i think its a pretty straight forward answer, where they admit how the business is, and that they all do it from time to time, nothing like you say at all

#815 bauss

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:21

McLaren says Mercedes wooed Lowe with ‘exotic salary’

The McLaren PR Machine in full combat mode, they make it sound like he's a hooker who got enamoured with what a sugar daddy had to offer

http://www.gptoday.c...tic_salary8217/


:lol: at the Ronspeak "exotic"

I'll try to add that to my vocabulary when talking about a lot of money. :lol:

#816 Clatter

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:44

McLaren says Mercedes wooed Lowe with ‘exotic salary’

The McLaren PR Machine in full combat mode, they make it sound like he's a hooker who got enamoured with what a sugar daddy had to offer

http://www.gptoday.c...tic_salary8217/


I really don't understand where your getting that opinion from. What I see is a very simple statement about how business works.

#817 Owen

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:47

McLaren says Mercedes wooed Lowe with ‘exotic salary’

The McLaren PR Machine in full combat mode, they make it sound like he's a hooker who got enamoured with what a sugar daddy had to offer

http://www.gptoday.c...tic_salary8217/

It's just being honest though.


#818 Rinehart

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:49

Yeah I agree McLaren seem to be good at getting young talent. There's things they do that are better than others such as close association with universities.
The matrix structure also helps them in this regard but it's also their downfall because I don't believe its the best way to win in F1. In fact I don't think McLaren is about winning anymore, its more about being sustainable in the long term, not relying too much on 1 guy.


I do agree with the sustainable v success impression they give at least.

#819 Dalton007

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:55

Indeed because Whitmarsh has been very poor and their has been an exodus of genuises on his watch when it should be the other way around.

Infact I think Whitmarsh despises geniuses based on historic accounts, such as him suffocating Newey also.



Huh?

So Whitmarsh doesn't want McLaren to win?




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#820 Anonymous

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:58

I really don't understand where your getting that opinion from. What I see is a very simple statement about how business works.


+1

#821 bogi

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:04

McLaren says Mercedes wooed Lowe with ‘exotic salary’

The McLaren PR Machine in full combat mode, they make it sound like he's a hooker who got enamoured with what a sugar daddy had to offer

http://www.gptoday.c...tic_salary8217/



Did you read the text?

#822 BernieEc

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:29

Did you read the text?


Yes I did, and hang on 1 minute before the silver chrome lynch mob jumps on me.

“People are prepared to pay exotic salaries and wait 12 or 18 months, or longer in some cases. That’s the state of the market,” he said.
“He (Lowe) has to think about number one,” Jenson Button, who has worked closely with Lowe since joining the Woking based team as world champion in 2010, said.


Neale insisted: “The reality is that if somebody rolls up and says ‘I don’t like being here, you are not paying me enough money’ or whatever, then even if you have a good contract, you don’t want them in the team anyway.”


Its quite clear to me what they are saying is he left for the money. I "personally" accentuated this with the hooker line which seems to have ruffled some feathers, that was said to put some humour in there.

The thing is for you to publicly state that its about money does Paddy a disservice, I am quite sure if and when he is asked money will not be the issue and it might be to have a change of environment, a new challenge, the regulation changes in 2014 or whatever. To publicly state he left for the money (even though you put the caveat of "We all do it) nevertheless is selling him somewhat short (at least in my opinion)

If you all remember when Hamilton left there people slinging mud all over the place satying it was cos of the money. Mercedes and Ross Brawn have since refuted that they did not make him a better offer than McLaren and Whitmarsh is on record saying we made him an offer that no other driver on grid enjoys. That didn't stop the mudslinging about money and I sort of see the same trend here.

So please don't take offence if my opinion differs from yours as am entitled to it, after 20 years of service its not right to throw him under the bus and say it was money. there might be other things wrong with McLaren as a company.

even if he did leave for money is that any reason why it should be the focus right now. what I mean is 90% of you on this forum have at some point changed jobs due to an increase in pay (Yes I know ...hyperbole but it could well be true) do you get slated for it. you will probably be congratulated as ambitious. They could simply have said he wanted a new challenge or whatever.

if we are all to be honest and take the blinkers off we will see that that particular article in its entire context does not really speak well of Paddy. I agree they have added that everyone does it, but as you all read everyone can be no-one, as only Paddy's name has been mentioned, they didn't mention names of others they recruited due to these factors.

Edited by BernieEc, 27 February 2013 - 11:34.


#823 F1ultimate

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:41

Lowe have plenty of reasons to move to Mercedes for:

2014 engine
Lewis Hamilton
Prospect of replacing Ross.
A new challenge, having been with Mclaren for close to 20 years.

#824 femi

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:41

Yes I did, and hang on 1 minute before the silver chrome lynch mob jumps on me.





Its quite clear to me what they are saying is he left for the money. I "personally" accentuated this with the hooker line which seems to have ruffled some feathers, that was said to put some humour in there.

The thing is for you to publicly state that its about money does Paddy a disservice, I am quite sure if and when he is asked money will not be the issue and it might be to have a change of environment, a new challenge, the regulation changes in 2014 or whatever. To publicly state he left for the money (even though you put the caveat of "We all do it) nevertheless is selling him somewhat short (at least in my opinion)

If you all remember when Hamilton left there people slinging mud all over the place satying it was cos of the money. Mercedes and Ross Brawn have since refuted that they did not make him a better offer than McLaren and Whitmarsh is on record saying we made him an offer that no other driver on grid enjoys. That didn't stop the mudslinging about money and I sort of see the same trend here.

So please don't take offence if my opinion differs from yours as am entitled to it, after 20 years of service its not right to throw him under the bus and say it was money. there might be other things wrong with McLaren as a company.

even if he did leave for money is that any reason why it should be the focus right now. what I mean is 90% of you on this forum have at some point changed jobs due to an increase in pay (Yes I know ...hyperbole but it could well be true) do you get slated for it. you will probably be congratulated as ambitious. They could simply have said he wanted a new challenge or whatever.

if we are all to be honest and take the blinkers off we will see that that particular article in its entire context does not really speak well of Paddy. I agree they have added that everyone does it, but as you all read everyone can be no-one, as only Paddy's name has been mentioned, they didn't mention names of others they recruited due to these factors.


Mclaren used that line against LH as well and when that was debunked, they alluded that it was them that let him go.. Won't surprise me one bit if in a few days, they will say that it was there decesion to let PL go... how vindictive and pathetic they have become

Edited by femi, 27 February 2013 - 11:44.


#825 eronrules

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:44

it seems to me that currently mclaren is the only team that people 'Doesn't wanna stay with'

also Neal's comment seems to me as very defensive, as if he's trying to keep the blame off his hands. i believe inside mclaren, there is a lot of turbulence ATM. and if by any chance somehow JB+SP fails to deliver, expect major head roll.


P.S i'm afraid of LotusF1, specially for Allison ... i don't want him joining mclaren :|

#826 f1rules

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:54

Mclaren used that line against LH as well and when that was debunked, they alluded that it was them that let him go.. Won't surprise me one bit if in a few days, they will say that it was there decesion to let PL go... how vindictive and pathetic they have become


i agree, that their bitterness towards Hamilton has been unprofessional, to say the least, and very obvious in many of their statements, but regarding Paddy Lowe i dont think they say or imply anything out of order, just a straight forward assesment of the business and Paddy leaving.

EDIT
About Alison, he would be more then welcome, lets get him right away so he can focus on the 2014 project maybe together with Key :up: :up:

Edited by f1rules, 27 February 2013 - 11:57.


#827 femi

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:58

i agree, that their bitterness towards Hamilton has been unprofessional, to say the least, and very obvious in many of their statements, but regarding Paddy Lowe i dont think they say or imply anything out of order, just a straight forward assesment of the business


They don't need to add speculation as to reasons why he chose to leave Mclaren especially when he is still a Mclaren staff and I am willing to bet that somewhere in his contract is at least 1 clause that forbids him from talking to the press without permission.

The guy is being assailed by Mclaren but he cannot defend himself.

#828 eronrules

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:04

EDIT
About Alison, he would be more then welcome, lets get him right away so he can focus on the 2014 project maybe together with Key :up: :up:


you're off my christmas list :mad:


:kiss:

#829 03011969

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:09

I don't really the issue here. People move on, get more interesting or larger financial offers, and McLaren seem to accept that. Lowe's been at McLaren 19 years, sounds like he's served them long enough, but do you expect McLaren to have him working on the latest 2014 designs before heading to Merc? Of course not.

McLaren are hardly going to sound happy, but, as Whitmarsh said, your top staff being poached is a sign of running a successful team.

All a big non-issue IMHO.

#830 Owen

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:15

I don't really the issue here. People move on, get more interesting or larger financial offers, and McLaren seem to accept that. Lowe's been at McLaren 19 years, sounds like he's served them long enough, but do you expect McLaren to have him working on the latest 2014 designs before heading to Merc? Of course not.

McLaren are hardly going to sound happy, but, as Whitmarsh said, your top staff being poached is a sign of running a successful team.

All a big non-issue IMHO.

wow! that sounds like a reasonable and proportionate response. Don't often get that.
:up:

#831 ZooL

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:29

I think it's about winning while remaining sustainable over the long term. They're doing surprisingly well with their approach. They didn't even blink when Newey left, just kept cranking out competetive cars. I like it.

I bet there blinking left, right and centre now as they watch Newey win 3 on the trot, and favourite for the 4th.

McLaren says Mercedes wooed Lowe with ‘exotic salary’

The McLaren PR Machine in full combat mode, they make it sound like he's a hooker who got enamoured with what a sugar daddy had to offer

http://www.gptoday.c...tic_salary8217/

It's a bit unprofessional isn't it? They shouldn't even have mentioned money, instead they should have thanked him for the service he provided. Instead they come out looking bitter (again). Wholly unprofessional conduct IMO.

#832 Gareth

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 13:15

People move on, get more interesting or larger financial offers, and McLaren seem to accept that.

Yes but trying hard to give the impression to the world that it's the latter type of offer, rather than the former, doesn't come across as classy.

#833 Guizotia

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 13:15

I don't really the issue here. People move on, get more interesting or larger financial offers, and McLaren seem to accept that. Lowe's been at McLaren 19 years, sounds like he's served them long enough, but do you expect McLaren to have him working on the latest 2014 designs before heading to Merc? Of course not.

McLaren are hardly going to sound happy, but, as Whitmarsh said, your top staff being poached is a sign of running a successful team.

All a big non-issue IMHO.


Your top staff being poached means you can't pay enough to be successful.

A's hire A's, B's hire C's.

If you end up paying like the B's you better hope people are impressed with your "heritage", but heritage doesn't pay the rent!

#834 boldhakka

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 13:21

I bet there blinking left, right and centre now as they watch Newey win 3 on the trot, and favourite for the 4th.


What? No, I think they're enjoying competing for the championship and taking a few wins along the way every year. How can they not be proud of that? They've always made it clear that they want to win on their own terms, be it driver equality (such as it is), or not relying on a lone genius.

They haven't missed Newey at all. Even now, as they see him earn multiple titles.

Edited by boldhakka, 27 February 2013 - 13:22.


#835 rileyl

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 13:23

Lowe have plenty of reasons to move to Mercedes for:

2014 engine
Lewis Hamilton
Prospect of replacing Ross.
A new challenge, having been with Mclaren for close to 20 years.


Also, I think Lowe knew too well that McLaren with Whitmarsh and Button, there is no hope to win championships

#836 BernieEc

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 13:28

Also, I think Lowe knew too well that McLaren with Whitmarsh and Button, there is no hope to win championships


Technically speaking, what happens if McLaren win the WDC /WCC 2013. As we all know, Paddy is currently on "Gardening leave" and might not have any input or access to the develpment of the car from now on, will he be credited as part of the championship winning team or he will not be mentioned in reference to the car. I am pretty sure he had a significant input in its design and all.

Edited by BernieEc, 27 February 2013 - 13:30.


#837 f1rules

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 13:35

Offcourse he will not be credited, he choose to leave and "Mclaren produced that car". They said bye and jenson wished him luck, thats enough.

Edited by f1rules, 27 February 2013 - 13:36.


#838 BernieEc

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 13:37

Offcourse he will not be credited, he choose to leave and Mclaren produced that car


But didn't he produce and help design the car before he left, and not trying to nitpick but technically he is still a McLaren employee till the end of the year

#839 f1rules

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 13:47

But didn't he produce and help design the car before he left, and not trying to nitpick but technically he is still a McLaren employee till the end of the year


yes offcourse and im sure he played a huge huge part, just take into consideration jensons comments last year which where more telling then anything i think, but this is F1, a very competitive and hard business, so saying goodbye and wishing him luck is the most he will get. There is no denying, Mclaren is offcourse not happy for sure.

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#840 study

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 13:52

Your top staff being poached means you can't pay enough to be successful.

A's hire A's, B's hire C's.

If you end up paying like the B's you better hope people are impressed with your "heritage", but heritage doesn't pay the rent!


Not always, sometimes there is something else you dislike in the organisations, its not unknown for people to take job cuts and backward steps just to get themselves out of a place. If you believe the stories, McLaren offered to make Lewis the highest paid driver, so he didn't leave just cause of money.

#841 Boxerevo

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 13:52

Mclaren used that line against LH as well and when that was debunked, they alluded that it was them that let him go.. Won't surprise me one bit if in a few days, they will say that it was there decesion to let PL go... how vindictive and pathetic they have become

They pr machine is top.

I don't forget how whitmarsh said they had no plan B and later, Perez being announced for Mclaren first than Lewis with Mercedes on the same day. :p

At least on pr,they really don't like to lose.

Edited by Boxerevo, 27 February 2013 - 13:54.


#842 MirNyet

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 13:53

While money is always a factor - looking at this, and the position Lowe seems to be moving into (which was the case with the former possible move to Williams) - Lowe wants to move up the ladder, a step which at McLaren now seems to be filled by Sam Michael, a person many believe to being groomed to replace Whitmarsh. As that step is now gone, that left Lowe stalled at McLaren. What is leading me personally away from the money angle is that Lowe was talking to Williams - a team which surely couldn't roll out the big bucks like Mercedes have. Both roles where said to be TP, not TD.

#843 BernieEc

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 13:55

yes offcourse and im sure he played a huge huge part, just take into consideration jensons comments last year which where more telling then anything i think, but this is F1, a very competitive and hard business, so saying goodbye and wishing him luck is the most he will get. There is no denying, Mclaren is offcourse not happy for sure.


Okay was just asking. I just assumed it would be the case e.g at the end of 1996 Adrian Newey left Williams for McLaren but was said to be on gardening leave for that period. Yet he is accredited as the chief designer of the FW19 which won both titles even though he had moved on to McLaren. I guess it differs from organisation to organisation

#844 f1rules

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 13:58

Okay was just asking. I just assumed it would be the case e.g at the end of 1996 Adrian Newey left Williams for McLaren but was said to be on gardening leave for that period. Yet he is accredited as the chief designer of the FW19 which won both titles even though he had moved on to McLaren. I guess it differs from organisation to organisation


You are right, im sure if it was up to Uncle Ron his departure would get no mention at all :-)

#845 BernieEc

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 14:03

You are right, im sure if it was up to Uncle Ron his departure would get no mention at all :-)

Harsh, but true

#846 SophieB

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 14:13

While money is always a factor - looking at this, and the position Lowe seems to be moving into (which was the case with the former possible move to Williams) - Lowe wants to move up the ladder, a step which at McLaren now seems to be filled by Sam Michael, a person many believe to being groomed to replace Whitmarsh.


You know, I am sure I read a very startling question put to Martin Whitmarsh last year about if he was worried about keeping his job with the ambitious Sam Michael now aboard. He gave a very odd reply about how no he wasn't worried as ambition was a good thing especially as none of the other staff at McLaren were ambitious enough to want his job. Then he added no staff below him, anyway which made me vaguely wonder if he ever caught Ron wistfully gazing at his old chair or something.

I can't remember where/when I read it. Does anyone else remember this question?

#847 BernieEc

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 14:15

You know, I am sure I read a very startling question put to Martin Whitmarsh last year about if he was worried about keeping his job with the ambitious Sam Michael now aboard. He gave a very odd reply about how no he wasn't worried as ambition was a good thing especially as none of the other staff at McLaren were ambitious enough to want his job. Then he added no staff below him, anyway which made me vaguely wonder if he ever caught Ron wistfully gazing at his old chair or something.

I can't remember where/when I read it. Does anyone else remember this question?


I remember the interview and am pretty sure it was done post race, possibly one in which a McLaren won, that should narrow it down, but I doremember the interview.

#848 study

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 14:22

Whitmarsh for me isn't correct for the team principle role, he's more a PR, HR man and lets personal feelings effect his judgement.

If Briatore being in charge they'd have being 2 championships there now, horrible nasty man but he gets the job done by being ruthless.


#849 BoschKurve

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 15:15

Doesn't anyone find it interesting how Ron is letting all this top personnel just walk from McLaren?

#850 Hairy

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 15:25

What? No, I think they're enjoying competing for the championship and taking a few wins along the way every year. How can they not be proud of that? They've always made it clear that they want to win on their own terms, be it driver equality (such as it is), or not relying on a lone genius.

They haven't missed Newey at all. Even now, as they see him earn multiple titles.


WDC is a driver crown. WCC is a constructors crown. They will be hurting having not won the latter for the past 15 years.


Okay was just asking. I just assumed it would be the case e.g at the end of 1996 Adrian Newey left Williams for McLaren but was said to be on gardening leave for that period. Yet he is accredited as the chief designer of the FW19 which won both titles even though he had moved on to McLaren. I guess it differs from organisation to organisation


Newey was also accredited with some parts on the MP4/12 in 98 before he started :rotfl:

Truth be told, this is a blow, and now everyone is coming out of the trees saying its nothing, shit happens: le plus ca change, le plus c'est la meme chose.

But it is a big thing. He was technical Director, and as such, would have been planning for the 29, would have had a hand in the 28 and knows the 27 very well. Whatever anyone is saying, anything neat, tricky, smart about the 29 will be evaluated on the W05. Thinking anything else would be insane. Thinking, also, that Gardening leave stops you working, is another very strange notion.