Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 8 votes

Paddy Lowe to Mercedes?


  • Please log in to reply
1085 replies to this topic

#951 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,315 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:04

The way things are at Merc, I don't see the need to replace Ross, least of all by PL. This century, Mclaren have onlh won the title once and recently, their best result was 3rd. When these are lined up against the resources at that team's disposal, it doesn't make for soaring entries in PL's cv.

I am glad he was hired by Merc, I am sure they will find very good use for him. I am also glad that they have at least deprived Mclaren of his services which they apparently value so much. Weakening your opponent and stregthening yourself is a winning tactic anytime.


I agree, but it's funny how pre-season the knives were out and many were calling for him to be replaced. Just goes to show how a few decent performances can change things around.

Advertisement

#952 dhill39

dhill39
  • Member

  • 418 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:14

I agree, but it's funny how pre-season the knives were out and many were calling for him to be replaced. Just goes to show how a few decent performances can change things around.


Who was calling for Ross to be fired,I have been following this tread all year,didn't see anyone wanting him to be fired.

#953 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,315 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:27

Who was calling for Ross to be fired,I have been following this tread all year,didn't see anyone wanting him to be fired.


Can't remember which thread it was in, but there were quite a few saying he should go.


#954 femi

femi
  • Member

  • 6,203 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 05 May 2013 - 13:11

I agree, but it's funny how pre-season the knives were out and many were calling for him to be replaced. Just goes to show how a few decent performances can change things around.


I never wanted Ross to be fired, I actually support his staying on. My comments would confirm that. Glad that PL was taken from Mclaren though.

#955 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,315 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 05 May 2013 - 21:32

I never wanted Ross to be fired, I actually support his staying on. My comments would confirm that. Glad that PL was taken from Mclaren though.


Sorry if there was a misunderstanding, my comment wasn't aimed at you.


#956 CookinFlatSix

CookinFlatSix
  • Member

  • 364 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 06 May 2013 - 00:34

But is he TP material? McLaren don't seem to think so, they're lining up Sam Michael supposedly.


Surely you are not suggesting that Mclaren would let Paddy go because they have Sam Michael?

I have a pet theory that Paddy was put out by Sam arriving last recently and Whitmarsh announcing to the world that Sam was the next TP.

If i was Paddy, the brains behind a lot of the engineering, and a grassroots Macca employee, I would rather have gone to the local Kwik Fit than hang around a team where a Williams reject was gonna be my boss because Whitmarsh likes having roses blown up his backside

#957 Xeriks

Xeriks
  • Member

  • 863 posts
  • Joined: February 13

Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:19

Surely you are not suggesting that Mclaren would let Paddy go because they have Sam Michael?

I have a pet theory that Paddy was put out by Sam arriving last recently and Whitmarsh announcing to the world that Sam was the next TP.

If i was Paddy, the brains behind a lot of the engineering, and a grassroots Macca employee, I would rather have gone to the local Kwik Fit than hang around a team where a Williams reject was gonna be my boss because Whitmarsh likes having roses blown up his backside

The thought of Sam Michael as Team Principal scares the hell out of me.


#958 pup

pup
  • Member

  • 443 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 07 May 2013 - 21:01

Looks a lot like James Allison might be Lowe's replacement...

http://translate.goo.....nick-chester/

We are able to confirm what until now was just a rumor: that James Allison, Technical Director of Lotus, has left the team. The decision has been made and the Enstone team has already decided on Nicholas Chester as his replacement.

Allison is now in a period of six months' gardening leave before leaving the team.



#959 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 2,177 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 07 May 2013 - 21:46

That's interesting. So the door's definitely slammed shut behind Lowe at McLaren, then. I really did wonder if he might, just might, end up changing his plans and staying where he was.

And that's Lotus in a world of trouble.

Advertisement

#960 undersquare

undersquare
  • Member

  • 18,929 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 07 May 2013 - 22:55

Surely you are not suggesting that Mclaren would let Paddy go because they have Sam Michael?

I have a pet theory that Paddy was put out by Sam arriving last recently and Whitmarsh announcing to the world that Sam was the next TP.

If i was Paddy, the brains behind a lot of the engineering, and a grassroots Macca employee, I would rather have gone to the local Kwik Fit than hang around a team where a Williams reject was gonna be my boss because Whitmarsh likes having roses blown up his backside


No for me it means McLaren don't see Paddy as a TP, but strictly as a technical guy. Which is how I see him. Tho he could surprise me.

#961 halifaxf1fan

halifaxf1fan
  • Member

  • 4,846 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 07 May 2013 - 23:12

Looks a lot like James Allison might be Lowe's replacement...

http://translate.goo.....nick-chester/


This is very disappointing if true.

#962 SmokeScreen

SmokeScreen
  • Member

  • 185 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 08 May 2013 - 00:03

Looks a lot like James Allison might be Lowe's replacement...

http://translate.goo.....nick-chester/


Hmm -don't know bout Mclaren.

More inclined to think Ferrari if any of the big 4. Mclaren have their own way of doing stuff and have they not already installed Tim Goss in TD position? Do they turn around and admit error or is there scope for another such position? Cos that would be hugely significant (and in line with massive restructuring we are only getting hints about). Having said that a bit of dilution of the current inbreeding trend wouldn't go amiss.

I wonder bout Williams – they obviously have the vacancy, seem to be on the way to sorting their finances and perhaps can offer share option and other attractive incentives.


#963 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 2,177 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 08 May 2013 - 07:03

Hmm -don't know bout Mclaren.

More inclined to think Ferrari if any of the big 4. Mclaren have their own way of doing stuff and have they not already installed Tim Goss in TD position? Do they turn around and admit error or is there scope for another such position? Cos that would be hugely significant (and in line with massive restructuring we are only getting hints about). Having said that a bit of dilution of the current inbreeding trend wouldn't go amiss.

I wonder bout Williams – they obviously have the vacancy, seem to be on the way to sorting their finances and perhaps can offer share option and other attractive incentives.


huh. I just assumed McLaren because there was a big rumour at the time of Lowe's leaving that McLaren were actively headhunting James Allison as his replacement. Frankly, I don't really take all their 'strength in depth' talk at face value. They've lost a couple of very significant senior personnel in the last few seasons. That kind of brain drain can't indefinitely be fixed by just promoting from within, sooner or later they need to recruit.

Or maybe Mercedes really ARE just hiring all the TDs. And all but one of them set to work guarding a big bee in a jar down in a Brackley basement.

#964 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 2,177 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 09 May 2013 - 10:22

A couple of interesting articles on the BBC this morning arising out of Andrew Benson interviewing Toto Wolff in which he talks a lot about the restructure at Mercedes and a little bit about the future team structure. This one is most relevant to the thread topic, though.
http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/22433258

Wolff makes it clear he has no personal designs on the 'team principal' title.

"I am a shareholder and that gives me the position I need to get things done," he says. "Then I have the Mercedes hat which gives me the possibility to come in from that angle and look after what Mercedes needs. I am perfectly happy to have that role. I don't need any title - you can call me number one cleaning lady if you want - but I do have knowledge of how to structure companies. I would be completely crazy to try to take something away from Ross: he has won 15 titles and who am I compared to that achievement? So I said to him: 'You look after the car; let me do the rest.' And that is the split - he is the engineer, I am the business guy."

Which is all very well, but if Brawn stays beyond this season, where does Lowe fit in? Wolff says Lowe is "very visible" because of his high-profile position, but will say little else on the man who will be at Mercedes in a very senior position at the start of next year.


Andrew Benson goes on to say he thinks it's still clear that Lowe will eventually replace Brawn but that Brawn's success means the timescales have shifted. Toto Wolff also had this to say:

Ross is ambitious and motivated to win the world championship with Mercedes and I think we are seeing the fruits of this. My job is essentially a support function, to give him and his team what they need. As far as the future is concerned, his destiny is in his own hands.


I guess that's as best as those of us keen to see Ross keep his job can reasonably hope for. And how pleasingly dramatically expressed.




#965 slmk

slmk
  • Member

  • 4,398 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 09 May 2013 - 12:59

So Brawn was in a do or die, sudden death situation in 2013. If Mercedes is able to battle for the titles, he stays. If not, PL replaces him?

What about PL then? Let's say RB stays after 2013, what will PL do?

#966 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 2,177 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 09 May 2013 - 13:16

Well, Andrew Benson infers that he'll be given some other job in the technical staff until the time comes when Brawn moves on. However long that be! But yeah, hard to believe Lowe is that impressed by this change in plans (if there has been a change, anyway).

But I'm honestly a bit confused by Wolff's current role and how he's working with Ross now. I mean this -

"So I said to [Ross]: 'You look after the car; let me do the rest.' "

Doesn't this actually mean Ross has been busted down to something like Technical Director and Wolff is the TP in actuality if not in name? Who has the last word on what happens in the team? Ross or Toto?



#967 femi

femi
  • Member

  • 6,203 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 09 May 2013 - 13:17

A couple of interesting articles on the BBC this morning arising out of Andrew Benson interviewing Toto Wolff in which he talks a lot about the restructure at Mercedes and a little bit about the future team structure. This one is most relevant to the thread topic, though.
http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/22433258



Andrew Benson goes on to say he thinks it's still clear that Lowe will eventually replace Brawn but that Brawn's success means the timescales have shifted. Toto Wolff also had this to say:



I guess that's as best as those of us keen to see Ross keep his job can reasonably hope for. And how pleasingly dramatically expressed.

Wolff is a cool dude and it is pleasing that he and Ross B are getting on real fine and in tune. Wolff is soft spoken but a real strong character and excellent communicator...



#968 F1ultimate

F1ultimate
  • Member

  • 2,861 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 09 May 2013 - 13:29

Well, Andrew Benson infers that he'll be given some other job in the technical staff until the time comes when Brawn moves on. However long that be! But yeah, hard to believe Lowe is that impressed by this change in plans (if there has been a change, anyway).

But I'm honestly a bit confused by Wolff's current role and how he's working with Ross now. I mean this -

"So I said to [Ross]: 'You look after the car; let me do the rest.' "

Doesn't this actually mean Ross has been busted down to something like Technical Director and Wolff is the TP in actuality if not in name? Who has the last word on what happens in the team? Ross or Toto?


Wolff is a shareholder and thus has more power than Brawn and even more so now when almost "all the pieces have fallen into place" and the team has a good structure. More so Allison and Lowe are free and the team now has Hamilton too. Wolf is no longer desperate to have Brawn in the team.

#969 robefc

robefc
  • Member

  • 8,020 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 09 May 2013 - 13:33

Wolff is a shareholder and thus has more power than Brawn and even more so now when almost "all the pieces have fallen into place" and the team has a good structure. More so Allison and Lowe are free and the team now has Hamilton too. Wolf is no longer desperate to have Brawn in the team.


I actually think the complete opposite, namely that Wolf has been pleasantly surprised by Brawn since he arrived.

#970 slmk

slmk
  • Member

  • 4,398 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 09 May 2013 - 13:35

Wolff is a shareholder and thus has more power than Brawn and even more so now when almost "all the pieces have fallen into place" and the team has a good structure. More so Allison and Lowe are free and the team now has Hamilton too. Wolf is no longer desperate to have Brawn in the team.


Wolff's power doesn't come necessarily from his shareholder title, but rather from his executive position (within the team).

#971 CookinFlatSix

CookinFlatSix
  • Member

  • 364 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 09 May 2013 - 13:59

Wolff is a shareholder and thus has more power than Brawn and even more so now when almost "all the pieces have fallen into place" and the team has a good structure. More so Allison and Lowe are free and the team now has Hamilton too. Wolf is no longer desperate to have Brawn in the team.


Wolff is a minority shareholder and therefore has no power over Brawn beyond his voting rights on board decisions. He has been chosen by the board to use an executive function to protect and enhance their interests. If Brawn is bringing results, Wolffs job is also bringing results. Wolff is in no position to decide that the boards interests are better served by sacking him without good reason

If you are a Mercedes or Daimler shareholder, you think you have more power than a guy who is actually paid by the team to increase the value of your share?

#972 femi

femi
  • Member

  • 6,203 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 09 May 2013 - 15:17

I actually think the complete opposite, namely that Wolf has been pleasantly surprised by Brawn since he arrived.


+1

#973 SmokeScreen

SmokeScreen
  • Member

  • 185 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 09 May 2013 - 16:32

good interview from Wolff - hope this gets Benson off Brawn's case.

Loved the bit about Lauda. Is as I suspected but with this confirmation I can fully relax and enjoy his "interesting comments" to the fullest.

#974 CHIUNDA

CHIUNDA
  • Member

  • 813 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:37

Wolff is a shareholder and thus has more power than Brawn and even more so now when almost "all the pieces have fallen into place" and the team has a good structure. More so Allison and Lowe are free and the team now has Hamilton too. Wolf is no longer desperate to have Brawn in the team.


With his executive power you may well be right after that horrible showing by the team in Spain. Only problem is when should Mercedes stop restructuring and start delivering?

#975 D.M.N.

D.M.N.
  • RC Forum Host

  • 7,202 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:03

Jon Noble ‏@NobleF1 9s
Paddy Lowe will join Mercedes next month, after being given early release from McLaren contract. Full story soon
11:02 AM - 20 May 13

#976 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 2,177 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:05

Whoah. How exciting!

#977 peroa

peroa
  • Member

  • 8,923 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:09

Jon Noble ‏@NobleF1 9s
Paddy Lowe will join Mercedes next month, after being given early release from McLaren contract. Full story soon
11:02 AM - 20 May 13

More engine support means more Paddy...
:smoking:


#978 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,657 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:10

As Executive Director as of 3 june.

#979 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,657 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:11

More engine support means more Paddy...
:smoking:

Thinking the same. Some bargaining has surely happened.

Advertisement

#980 peroa

peroa
  • Member

  • 8,923 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:12

Lots of executives there, wonder who will be "executed" first.
:cool:

#981 kedia990

kedia990
  • Member

  • 346 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:25

Wolff is ED (Business), Lowe will be ED (Technical)

#982 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:29

I am still not entirely clear about who is doing what.
- Brawn will look after the car?
- Lowe after everything else?
- Wolff - a top cleaning lady - no title, just an investor and a member of a steering committee with Lauda (liaison w Stuttgart)?

It appears that Brawn is directly answering to Lowe, and indirectly to Wolff. This might be heading for a divorce in one or two years for Ross.

#983 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,657 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:31

I don't see how the Team Principal answers to Lowe :confused:

#984 Gilles4Ever

Gilles4Ever
  • RC Forum Admin

  • 20,166 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:32

I am still not entirely clear about who is doing what.
- Brawn will look after the car?
- Lowe after everything else?
- Wolff - a top cleaning lady - no title, just an investor and a member of a steering committee with Lauda (liaison w Stuttgart)?

It appears that Brawn is directly answering to Lowe, and indirectly to Wolff. This might be heading for a divorce in one or two years for Ross.

It seems that it will be Lowe who reports to Brawn as Lowe is the ultimate successor to Brawn

#985 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,657 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:36

Bold statement by Lowe: ''The team has already produced probably the fastest car of the 2013 season''.

#986 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:39

Could be my mistake since I am used to American/Japanese business, but TP reduced to look only after a car (as opposed to full account for whole business) is really an empty title, isn't it? Ross will have to work to the budget Lowe will se up for him (rather than what Stuttgart approves). This is not as straight forward matter as suggested in here.

#987 Gilles4Ever

Gilles4Ever
  • RC Forum Admin

  • 20,166 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:41

Bold statement by Lowe: ''The team has already produced probably the fastest car of the 2013 season''.

If you believe qualifying is an indicator of the fastest, low fuel, brand new tyres, max engine setting outright pace of a car . . .

#988 jrg19

jrg19
  • Member

  • 6,118 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:49

Let see what he can do for Mercedes.

#989 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 2,177 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:53

Could be my mistake since I am used to American/Japanese business, but TP reduced to look only after a car (as opposed to full account for whole business) is really an empty title, isn't it? Ross will have to work to the budget Lowe will se up for him (rather than what Stuttgart approves). This is not as straight forward matter as suggested in here.


Yeah, my best guess is that Wolff is in reality what would be once called the Team Principal now, albeit alongside a Technical Director who has been granted a lot more power than found in any other team. But it's hard to say, isn't it? It's not like any of the posts mean exactly the same thing across teams at the best of times and I suspect Wolff might be trying something fairly novel here. It's not at all clear how this will work in practice.

I do find it fascinating that they've all apparently persuaded Ross to stay on until they're ready to have Lowe take over. I wonder what he really feels about it all.

#990 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:03

Could be that Wolff is the one acting as a (silent) TP, overseeing both, Lowe and Brawn, while both answering directly to him for different segments of the business, and if/when/should Brawn leave, Lowe will take probably over his functions as well, unless of course Wolff discovers, that he needs both, and Bell then receives promotion.

#991 F1ultimate

F1ultimate
  • Member

  • 2,861 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:04

Wow. I did not expect him to join so quickly. Hopefully he will be able to sort out their tyre vows. I wonder how much exotic money Merc paid to buy him out mid-season.

#992 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:06

Moreover, will other teams see this as a panic in Brackley to salvage the season (after Barcelona)?

#993 F1ultimate

F1ultimate
  • Member

  • 2,861 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:16

Moreover, will other teams see this as a panic in Brackley to salvage the season (after Barcelona)?


No team will do that. Everyone now that Paddy Lowe was on his way to the team. It's not like Mercedes poached Lowe on Monday after the race and got him released from his contract in barely a week.

#994 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 2,177 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:21

Moreover, will other teams see this as a panic in Brackley to salvage the season (after Barcelona)?


If in reality the plan is actually all coming together nicely and ahead of schedule then they can just smile to themselves if people take the piss.

If on the other hand, they ARE secretly panicking, then frankly other teams saying “HA HA” when they pass them in the paddock will be the least of their problems anyway. (I don't think they are panicking.)

#995 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:28

No team will do that. Everyone now that Paddy Lowe was on his way to the team. It's not like Mercedes poached Lowe on Monday after the race and got him released from his contract in barely a week.



Maybe, but delta between expectations and actual is about six months; some event/decision prompted that urgency.

#996 undersquare

undersquare
  • Member

  • 18,929 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:29

Wow. I did not expect him to join so quickly. Hopefully he will be able to sort out their tyre vows. I wonder how much exotic money Merc paid to buy him out mid-season.


Yeah surprise to me too. 5 ex-TD's at Merc now: Brawn, Bell, Costa, Willis, Lowe.

Among other things I can't help wondering if this is a sign of McLaren needing money, as well as a kind of non-aggression pact for the rest of this year. Or just trading IP perhaps, what Paddy knows vs. V6 secrets as Peroa said. Paddy ought to have some idea about tyre use that seems to evade everyone else at Brackley.

#997 undersquare

undersquare
  • Member

  • 18,929 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:34

If in reality the plan is actually all coming together nicely and ahead of schedule then they can just smile to themselves if people take the piss.

If on the other hand, they ARE secretly panicking, then frankly other teams saying “HA HA” when they pass them in the paddock will be the least of their problems anyway. (I don't think they are panicking.)

Yes quite. Merc will care less what other teams see it as.

But I could imagine Spain giving the Board a hurry-up, since tyre use has gone unsolved for years at Merc it's a bit odd.

#998 bonjon1979a

bonjon1979a
  • Member

  • 3,280 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:05

Yeah surprise to me too. 5 ex-TD's at Merc now: Brawn, Bell, Costa, Willis, Lowe.

Among other things I can't help wondering if this is a sign of McLaren needing money, as well as a kind of non-aggression pact for the rest of this year. Or just trading IP perhaps, what Paddy knows vs. V6 secrets as Peroa said. Paddy ought to have some idea about tyre use that seems to evade everyone else at Brackley.

No way mac would be happy with him joining this quickly. Lowe would've been plugged into mac 2014 development and will know a lot about their new car. Must've only had six months left on his contract or a stipulation that he need only do six months gardening leave. This all kicked off in January so makes sense time wise.

EDIT I stand corrected just read that Mclaren released him early.

Edited by bonjon1979a, 20 May 2013 - 12:27.


#999 superdelphinus

superdelphinus
  • Member

  • 1,338 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:08

McLaren never seemed to get fully on top of the pirelli tyres either to be fair

Advertisement

#1000 Fastcake

Fastcake
  • Member

  • 6,166 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:25

So I wonder what McLaren are getting in return? It's not like a team would allow someone to put a hold on the flower bed weeding early out of generosity, so there must be done sort of return. A reduction on the engine costs next year perhaps?