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Paddy Lowe to Mercedes?


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#1001 superdelphinus

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:29

an arse load of money presumably, and an nda tighter than a Scotsman in a jobcentre

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#1002 F1ultimate

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:30

So I wonder what McLaren are getting in return? It's not like a team would allow someone to put a hold on the flower bed weeding early out of generosity, so there must be done sort of return. A reduction on the engine costs next year perhaps?


Just what I was going to say. Mclaren wants a one year engine deal and Merc wants Lowe ASAP.

#1003 cokeb

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:33

So I wonder what McLaren are getting in return? It's not like a team would allow someone to put a hold on the flower bed weeding early out of generosity, so there must be done sort of return. A reduction on the engine costs next year perhaps?

A single year supply of discounted engines instead of having to sign a multiple year deal?

#1004 bonjon1979a

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:50

an arse load of money presumably, and an nda tighter than a Scotsman in a jobcentre

He's been at mclaren 20 years. The knowledge he's gained there, is who he is and what he's taking to Merc. No NDA is going to prevent him from using that knowledge.

#1005 MP422

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 14:42

Haha Lowe starts at the beginning of next month, a lot of opinions were very wrong on this. Love it ! Go Merc !


#1006 oldracer1957

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 17:07

I am still not entirely clear about who is doing what.
- Brawn will look after the car?
- Lowe after everything else?
- Wolff - a top cleaning lady - no title, just an investor and a member of a steering committee with Lauda (liaison w Stuttgart)?

It appears that Brawn is directly answering to Lowe, and indirectly to Wolff. This might be heading for a divorce in one or two years for Ross.


The power of wishful thinking :stoned: . Have you ever (besides your wildest dreams :rolleyes: ) heard of a TP answering to TechDir? :wave:


#1007 superdelphinus

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 17:38

He's been at mclaren 20 years. The knowledge he's gained there, is who he is and what he's taking to Merc. No NDA is going to prevent him from using that knowledge.


Yeah, NDAs are very difficult to enforce as it is, but you're never going to get one that covers everything you've ever learnt!

#1008 Sakae

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 17:52

The power of wishful thinking :stoned: . Have you ever (besides your wildest dreams :rolleyes: ) heard of a TP answering to TechDir? :wave:

Yeah, TP with limited mandate? Whom do you think you are kidding?

#1009 FastnLoud

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 18:05

Wish Paddy all the best, Mercedes are lucky to have him.



#1010 RealRacing

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 18:14

Nothing short of a miracle can save Merc this season anyway. Wow, deja vu...

#1011 Kvothe

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 18:14

Excuse me if i'm not too excited about what Lowe brings apart from the obvious loss to another rival, but Mercedes biggest problem has been how it uses the Pirellis, I can't see how bringing in Lowe will help solve that, especially when McLaren last year appeared to have the worst tyre management of all of the top teams. Bringing in James Allison would have made more sense, whose suspension design actually lucked into being able to unlock a lot of race pace out of the tyres.

Edited by Kvothe, 20 May 2013 - 18:14.


#1012 JRizzle86

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 18:38

Just what I was going to say. Mclaren wants a one year engine deal and Merc wants Lowe ASAP.


To be fair McLaren already had a one year remaining on their contract.

#1013 charly0418

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 18:40

I dont know why people are so excited about Paddy

He designed the crapctastic McLaren this year

#1014 Xeriks

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 18:53

I dont know why people are so excited about Paddy

He designed the crapctastic McLaren this year

Yeah, it's clearly all down to Paddy Lowe that the MP4-28 was so bad this year, nothing to do with the screw up Mclaren made in testing or anything.

#1015 Sakae

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 18:55

Excuse me if i'm not too excited about what Lowe brings apart from the obvious loss to another rival, but Mercedes biggest problem has been how it uses the Pirellis, I can't see how bringing in Lowe will help solve that, especially when McLaren last year appeared to have the worst tyre management of all of the top teams. Bringing in James Allison would have made more sense, whose suspension design actually lucked into being able to unlock a lot of race pace out of the tyres.

Well don't despair; it's not over yet, and negotiations aren't probably concluded yet. :D

#1016 FastnLoud

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 19:06

I dont know why people are so excited about Paddy

He designed the crapctastic McLaren this year


Paddy was the brains behind the design of this years car but Tim Goss was actually the brains behind the new Pull Rod suspension on the car. I guess Paddy had faith that Tim's idea to implement a new pull rod suspension was a good idea as Tim brought lot's of ideas to the car of how this new suspension could bring more space to work with improving Aero under the front of the car.

You can't put it all down to Paddy.

#1017 superdelphinus

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 19:21

I thought the problem with mclaren was a data correlation issue?

#1018 charly0418

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 19:23

Paddy was the brains behind the design of this years car but Tim Goss was actually the brains behind the new Pull Rod suspension on the car. I guess Paddy had faith that Tim's idea to implement a new pull rod suspension was a good idea as Tim brought lot's of ideas to the car of how this new suspension could bring more space to work with improving Aero under the front of the car.

You can't put it all down to Paddy.


Where did you read the Goss-Pull Rod thing? Would be interesting to see that..

It's pretty well known that Goss designed the 27, which was fantastic

#1019 Risil

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 19:50

Bringing in James Allison would have made more sense, whose suspension design actually lucked into being able to unlock a lot of race pace out of the tyres.


Like Newey's diffuser designs luck into generating the most downforce, you mean? :rolleyes:

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#1020 Kvothe

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 20:16

Like Newey's diffuser designs luck into generating the most downforce, you mean? :rolleyes:


It's not quite the same thing though is it?

http://www.racer.com...article/294013/

So Lotus and Ferrari have been rewarded for having designed cars with Pirelli tire usage in mind rather than the best theoretical high-speed downforce?

Actually, It's not clear that they have "designed" their cars with that in mind rather than simply stumbled onto it! Here's what recently departed Lotus technical director James Allison said of his car's easy tire usage last year:

“Certainly, suspension design and getting the suspension to work well with the tires have always been priorities with us and perhaps we have paid more attention to that than other teams, I don't know. But no, we have certainly not put a ceiling on the downforce we are trying to achieve with the car. We are always trying to maximize that. No one knows how all the different cars work. You just hopefully have a good idea of how your own works and then you see how that compares on the lap time when you get to the track.”

So Lotus, by its own admission, has got as much downforce as it could possibly find and Red Bull, by Pirelli's admission, has a lot more. Rather than having been cleverer than Red Bull in understanding the demands of Pirelli tires, it's more a case of the traits of the Pirelli tires happening to have come toward the already existing traits of the Ferrari and Lotus, rather than those of Red Bull. That was already the case but, with the 2013 tires, it would seem even more so.


*Insert random rolled eye smiley in lieu of actual point here*

Edited by Kvothe, 20 May 2013 - 20:18.


#1021 Risil

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 20:28

Allison seems to be suggesting Lotus has better suspension designers than Red Bull and co, yes. In the bit you didn't bold.

Edited by Risil, 20 May 2013 - 20:28.


#1022 Kvothe

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 20:33

Allison seems to be suggesting Lotus has better suspension designers than Red Bull and co, yes. In the bit you didn't bold.


What? this bit:

“Certainly, suspension design and getting the suspension to work well with the tires have always been priorities with us and perhaps we have paid more attention to that than other teams,


It tells us everything about Lotus, and nothing about Red Bull.

Irrespective of that I stick by my original point that hiring Allison would have been a better move than chasing Lowe, a guy (who through luck....or design) actually played a key part in designing a car known to be good on it's tyres .

#1023 Sakae

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 08:00



Mercedes negotiated a deal...question is then - what's the rush with x-personnel on board already?

Edited by Sakae, 21 May 2013 - 08:07.


#1024 windtravels

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 08:24

Fairly certain this has something to do with the Honda news. The timing is no coincidence.

#1025 Sakae

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 08:48

Fairly certain this has something to do with the Honda news. The timing is no coincidence.

...Honda link was confirmed somewhere as well, but I don't know how credible that info is, since I doubt that detail of negotiations is readily available to the public.

#1026 superdelphinus

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 08:50

I've just been polishing my tin foil hat and decided that it is pretty interesting that an Italian company's tyres tested on a Renault suit Ferrari and Renault the best

#1027 Sakae

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:08

I've just been polishing my tin foil hat and decided that it is pretty interesting that an Italian company's tyres tested on a Renault suit Ferrari and Renault the best

Yeah, all arranged by Paddy, which is main reason why he is moving to Mercedes in rush.

#1028 superdelphinus

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:18

exactly! And the reason they work worst on the merc is because brawn beat hembrey in a game of all or nothing darts in 1986, after which hembrey lost everything including his pet poodle, basil

#1029 Sakae

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:32

exactly! And the reason they work worst on the merc is because brawn beat hembrey in a game of all or nothing darts in 1986, after which hembrey lost everything including his pet poodle, basil


:D good, that explains everything.

#1030 windtravels

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:50

exactly! And the reason they work worst on the merc is because brawn beat hembrey in a game of all or nothing darts in 1986, after which hembrey lost everything including his pet poodle, basil


poor basil.

#1031 superdelphinus

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 10:18

rumour has it that brawn had basil stuffed and has him pride of place in the Mercedes motorhome

#1032 SophieB

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 10:41

Martin Whitmarsh says decision to let @paddylowe leave McLaren early to join Mercedes is "not related to the Honda deal... In terms of the reasons why, Paddy’s been a loyal servant here and we felt it was the right thing to release him."



#1033 peroa

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:05

lol. Martin's such a bad liar...

#1034 SophieB

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:21

I think it seems a bit of an odd thing for them to be going out of their way to deny either way, really. Is it so terrible if everyone concluded there was some horse trading between Mercedes and McLaren?



#1035 Owen

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:39

http://www.espn.co.u...ory/108475.html
I think it genuinely is good will. I know, a weird concept for F1.

#1036 F1ultimate

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:51

http://www.espn.co.u...ory/108475.html
I think it genuinely is good will. I know, a weird concept for F1.


Good Will isn't good Will when you expect something in return or are repaying a favor.

#1037 FastnLoud

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:08

http://www.espn.co.u...ory/108475.html
I think it genuinely is good will. I know, a weird concept for F1.


Mercedes have promised Mclaren that the engines they were going to provide for 2014 will now not blow up if Paddy can leave early.

#1038 Sakae

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:31

I think it seems a bit of an odd thing for them to be going out of their way to deny either way, really. Is it so terrible if everyone concluded there was some horse trading between Mercedes and McLaren?

The expediency could be interpreted at least in two different ways; Mercedes see benefit having Lowe complete his integration with Brackley operations by year end, thus hitting ground running in 2014, or, current issues are taxing resources to the extend that 2014 program is being shortchanged. Moreover, a different perspective on tire related management while could be beneficial to Mercedes, it is conceivable that McLaren (secretly) is writing 2013 off, thus don't caring so much what Lowe will or will not do or say to his new friends. Hard to tell from little what we know.

#1039 Coops3

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:39

Mercedes have promised Mclaren that the engines they were going to provide for 2014 will now not blow up if Paddy can leave early.


My thoughts exactly. Or at least, along those lines. I suspect this is a gesture to keep Merc sweet so that things don't get difficult for them next year.

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#1040 F1ultimate

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:46

a different perspective on tire related management while could be beneficial to Mercedes,


God forbid Merc don't manage to come to terms with the tyre with Lowe onboard. It will be the embarrassment of the century.

#1041 Sakae

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 13:03

God forbid Merc don't manage to come to terms with the tyre with Lowe onboard. It will be the embarrassment of the century.


Dr. Zetsche "advised" Brackley what could be really perceived as embarrassment, to think "out of the box". Perhaps Lowe might trigger the missing spark from "out of the box" that has escaped to Brawn, but was quite normal at McLaren. At the end I don't care who does it, as long as it gets fixed.

#1042 pup

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 16:20

I think it seems a bit of an odd thing for them to be going out of their way to deny either way, really. Is it so terrible if everyone concluded there was some horse trading between Mercedes and McLaren?

Not so terrible, nor so terrible that people assume it has something to do with the engine supply. I'm wondering if it isn't rather the flip side of the engine thing - that is, now that McLaren and Honda are official, they'll be working closely with Honda, and they aren't going to want that info finding it's way to Merc via Lowe.

#1043 oldracer1957

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 16:38

Yeah, TP with limited mandate?

:rotfl: like I said... in your wildest dreams :stoned:


#1044 undersquare

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 16:38

Not so terrible, nor so terrible that people assume it has something to do with the engine supply. I'm wondering if it isn't rather the flip side of the engine thing - that is, now that McLaren and Honda are official, they'll be working closely with Honda, and they aren't going to want that info finding it's way to Merc via Lowe.


Lowe is out of it already though, on gardening leave.

Mac and Merc are very much in each other's way, Mac would be a bit crazy to give Merc Lowe early without getting something in return.

Equally Merc were making a lot of the V6 engine secrets while they were courting Lewis, that is next year up for grabs, so you have to think tyre desperation is the most likely carrot for them.

#1045 Lazy

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 14:08

Mrec yet to define Lowe's role.

I imagine he's beginning to regret this move.

#1046 Sakae

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 14:13

Mrec yet to define Lowe's role.

I imagine he's beginning to regret this move.

If you believe that article, than I suggest we meet; I have a bridge in Brooklyn which I want to offload cheaply. Do you really believe that Lowe will quit a cushy job at McLaren without knowing what's on the other side of fence? Do you really believe that Mercedes will hire a guy with high income without having a plan?

#1047 pup

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 14:16

I do.

#1048 eddie66

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 14:18

Lowe is out of it already though, on gardening leave.

Mac and Merc are very much in each other's way, Mac would be a bit crazy to give Merc Lowe early without getting something in return.

Equally Merc were making a lot of the V6 engine secrets while they were courting Lewis, that is next year up for grabs, so you have to think tyre desperation is the most likely carrot for them.


agreed, cheaper engines for next year may have been part of the deal for leaving him join early.


#1049 Sakae

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 14:18

I do.

Obviously I give those people little more credit on IQ side, than some of you. That's fine, no harm done.

#1050 Sakae

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 14:19

agreed, cheaper engines for next year may have been part of the deal for leaving him join early.

...that was denied about a week ago.