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Paddy Lowe to Mercedes?


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#101 slmk

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:15

If true, exciting times to be a Mercedes / Lewis / Nico fan.

Turns out McLaren's pockets ain't that deep if they can't keep its talent.


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#102 Anonymous

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:16

Turns out McLaren's pockets ain't that deep if they can't keep its talent.



:rotfl: :rotfl: Stop with this bullshit.

#103 Anja

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:20

With each story like this (if it comes true), I wish Mercedes more and more to miserably fail. It's just ridiculous when they have so many of the top technical staff already.

#104 Owen

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:29

http://www1.skysport...en-to-Mercedes-

Sky now running the story.

Not necessarily a barometer for accurate reporting.

#105 slmk

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:49

With each story like this (if it comes true), I wish Mercedes more and more to miserably fail. It's just ridiculous when they have so many of the top technical staff already.


Why is it ridiculous?

Ferrari did it. McLaren did it.


#106 JRizzle86

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:54

:rotfl: :rotfl: Stop with this bullshit.


Someone needed to do it.

#107 slmk

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:11

:rotfl: :rotfl: Stop with this bullshit.


Bullshit? McLaren doesn't have that bottomless pit of money since they lost Mercedes backing. Makes perfect sense.

EDIT: BBC now running with the story... but with a different angle...

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21143847

Formula 1: Ross Brawn role at Mercedes under threat


Edited by slmk, 22 January 2013 - 12:13.


#108 Timstr11

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:15

Mr Wolff is already creating a big big mess. :down: :down: :down: :down:

#109 David1976

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:20

This rumour sounds quite plausible.

Who's to say that Paddy Lowe doesn't replace Brawn and be given other duties to compliment this. He has likely reached a glass ceiling at McLaren anyway. If he goes, good on him.
The 2014 Mercedes really could be a force to be reckoned with.

A team crowded with talent is never a problem if everyone knows their remit. It is only a real problem if the roles are not properly defined.


#110 Slackbladder

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:22

If Hamilton knew of this or Merc's future plans, then his move makes even more sense... It seems Merc is very very serious about challenging in 2014 if not in 2013..

#111 BernieEc

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:23

BBC now reporting ont he Paddy lowe story.........interesting

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21143847

#112 peroa

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:25

Mr Wolff is already creating a big big mess. :down: :down: :down: :down:

It actually sounds pretty good.

Irony is an understatement:
http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21143847

"There is a huge irony for McLaren in Mercedes' desire to poach their technical director Paddy Lowe.

"The Brawn team were only able to come into existence after the personal intervention of McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh with the Mercedes board.

"Four years later, the team has been taken over by Mercedes, and the German company has dropped McLaren as its works team.

"For the first time this season, McLaren have to pay for their Mercedes engines and now they could lose their technical director to their former partner as well.

"McLaren faced a similar situation in 2001, when their then technical director Adrian Newey - now the chief technical officer of world champions Red Bull.

"Newey was later persuaded to change his mind by then-McLaren team principal Ron Dennis, now the chairman of the McLaren Group.

"But his dissatisfaction at McLaren eventually led him to leave and join Red Bull, which had taken over Jaguar, in 2006."



#113 skinnylizard

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:26

all these major moves... if the results dont come wont heads roll almost as quickly?

#114 F1ultimate

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:31

RRA? Does it even apply to Merc?

#115 slmk

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:31

BBC Sport understands Lowe has agreed to join Mercedes but has not yet signed a contract - so there is a possibility, however small, that he will stay at McLaren.


"Paddy Lowe is going to Mercedes and it would appear that Brawn and Fry are on their way out, and Lowe will be there in a very senior capacity," Jordan said.


Wow.

Edited by slmk, 22 January 2013 - 12:36.


#116 Slackbladder

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:32

all these major moves... if the results dont come wont heads roll almost as quickly?


I think it's clear Merc are challenging for 2014. The 2013 season is nearly upon us, and changes take time to come through. However they will, and should be looking for a step up.



#117 Anonymous

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:34

Bullshit? McLaren doesn't have that bottomless pit of money since they lost Mercedes backing. Makes perfect sense.


That's absolutely not true.

#118 maverick69

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:35

RRA? Does it even apply to Merc?


Red Bull allegedly stuck two fingers up at it........ If you can't beat em......

#119 Massa_f1

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:39

Another new signing? Why don't they just sign everybody from McLaren and be done with it. Anyway to many cooks broth.


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#120 bonjon1979a

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:39

Bullshit? McLaren doesn't have that bottomless pit of money since they lost Mercedes backing. Makes perfect sense.

EDIT: BBC now running with the story... but with a different angle...

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21143847

Formula 1: Ross Brawn role at Mercedes under threat


Andrew Benson nearly always comes up with a 'different angle' - he's just a hack who feels the need to reinvent stories to get more people to read it and make it more likely that he'll be paid for more columns further down the line. Most of what he writes are old stories twisted to make them seem like he's reporting something new.

#121 slmk

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:39

ames Allen @Jamesallenonf1
#f1 Toto Wolff says that he wants Ross Brawn to stay at Mercedes F1 team. Can't say anything about Paddy Lowe rumour


Andrew Benson @andrewbensonf1
RT @adamcooperf1: #F1 Regarding @paddylowe Toto Wolff says "I read it in the paper that's all I can tell you." But adds "at this stage"...”


Wonder if Lewis was aware of Brawn/Fry being on their way out / Lowe&Wolff on their way in when he signed..

Edited by slmk, 22 January 2013 - 12:41.


#122 F1ultimate

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:39

This is unfolding very fast.

Is Ross on his way out?

#123 Slackbladder

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:41

I think those quotes are pretty close to a non-denial confirmation as you can get...

#124 Timstr11

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:42

It actually sounds pretty good.

Irony is an understatement:
http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21143847

Big upheavals never work in F1 teams. The teams that are currently winning have relative stability and they have taken their time to get to the top.
The nasty thing with manufacturer teams is that too much is expected in too short a time space, leading to knee-jerk reactions and big upheavels year-on-year.
Change is needed but it has to dosed. This is all too much. Not going to work in my opinion.

#125 RedBaron

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:42

Mercedes 2013 or at least 2014 is going to be blindingly different to Mercedes 2012 and before. It's like they're a whole new team... or going to be very soon.

#126 Lord Snooty

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:43

Andrew Benson nearly always comes up with a 'different angle' - he's just a hack who feels the need to reinvent stories to get more people to read it and make it more likely that he'll be paid for more columns further down the line. Most of what he writes are old stories twisted to make them seem like he's reporting something new.



James Allen just tweeted that Toto Wolff is saying he'd like Brawn to stay (how nice of him) but, in the inverted realms of media speak, that probably means its agreed Brawn will leave!


https://twitter.com/Jamesallenonf1

Edited by Lord Snooty, 22 January 2013 - 12:44.


#127 slmk

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:45

Big upheavals never work in F1 teams. The teams that are currently winning have relative stability and they have taken their time to get to the top.
The nasty thing with manufacturer teams is that too much is expected in too short a time space, leading to knee-jerk reactions and big upheavels year-on-year.
Change is needed but it has to dosed. This is all too much. Not going to work in my opinion.


Well, they tried stability from 2009 to 2012 and it clearly didn't work.

I think Fry and Brawn have been given enough chances. Beside, Brawn is not an engineer so I fail to see the effect of his exit on the 2013 car or future iterations.

Edited by slmk, 22 January 2013 - 12:49.


#128 noikeee

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:46

Big upheavals never work in F1 teams. The teams that are currently winning have relative stability and they have taken their time to get to the top.
The nasty thing with manufacturer teams is that too much is expected in too short a time space, leading to knee-jerk reactions and big upheavels year-on-year.
Change is needed but it has to dosed. This is all too much. Not going to work in my opinion.


Yeah I think I'll side with you on this, it's all sounding a bit too much too quickly isn't it?

#129 RedBaron

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:46

James Allen just tweeted that Toto Wolff is saying he'd like Brawn to stay (how nice of him) but, in the inverted realms of media speak, that probably means its agreed Brawn will leave!



I think Ross is out. Until we get a firm 'he is staying' you've got to assume something is up. Wolff did not say 'of course he is staying' (which is what we'd have assumed the answer would have been 1/2 weeks ago) his words were well chosen.

#130 Timstr11

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:50

James Allen just tweeted that Toto Wolff is saying he'd like Brawn to stay (how nice of him) but, in the inverted realms of media speak, that probably means its agreed Brawn will leave!


https://twitter.com/Jamesallenonf1

Not impossible that information was leaked to him from the Brawn camp.
Would not be surprised that a power struggle has erupted at the team, instigated by the Lauda/Wolff camp.

#131 BackOnTop

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:56

Bob Bell, Geoff Willis, Aldo Costa, Mike Elliot, and now Pade Lowe. How many god damn designers do Mercedes need? Ferrari and Red Bull only have 2 each.

Mercedes board of directors are obviously finalizing and proving funds from the company to pay their salaries. I think some will be given notice soon. With logic, Mercedes can hold the 2010-12 recruitments resposible for the teams failure while getting a Massive pay. Hard decision are being made i suppose. I expect the original Brawn recruits to get the shaft soon.

So lets see who they have removed/retired from Brawn's Formula 1 Project:
- Schumi (Hamilton)
- Norbert Haug (Toto

I think these can follow soon in light of new "expected" recruitments:

-Nikki Lauda (Nick Fry)
-Paddy Lowe (Ross Brawn, his days @merc looks to be over)
-Mike Elliot (to reduce excess baggage, expect 2 Tech guys to be let go, maybe Aldo Costa & Bob Bell)
-Geoff Willies (may remain but in a new position, or maybe not)

If they all stay, Mercedes will spend broke soon, and not because they are paying Hamilton more than what Mclaren did. Where the hell will they have the money to pay all these excess "high payed" people and still save money to develop their cars.

Mercedes irritation with Brawn might be running high coz not only did recruit Schumi for a BIG contract, he looks to have planned to use Mercedes as a retirement plan for all the other techies. It's not cheap lol.

Edited by BackOnTop, 22 January 2013 - 13:41.


#132 Lamag

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:59

Adam Cooper @adamcooperf1
#F1 Toto on Brawn': "I need to sit down and understand the structure. It would be foolish to come in and speak about replacing anybody"



#133 Timstr11

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 13:02

Well, they tried stability from 2009 to 2012 and it clearly didn't work.

I think Fry and Brawn have been given enough chances. Beside, Brawn is not an engineer so I fail to see the effect of his exit on the 2013 car or future iterations.

They made changes year on year. It's only F1 fans and manufacturer boards that expect instant success. It has never worked liked that F1.


#134 Fastcake

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 13:04

I think it'll be a mistake to drop Ross Brawn from the team, I've got a lot of respect for him over the years. I'm sure he'll have no problem in finding a new position elsewhere if he is dropped anyway.

#135 bonjon1979a

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 13:05

Despite this seeming to happen quite quickly, this will have been in the offing for some time. It's starting to make more and more sense of Hamilton's move. They must've lured him on the promise that there would be top technical people joining Merc as well as the potential for the 2014 power unit.

#136 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 13:10

Despite this seeming to happen quite quickly, this will have been in the offing for some time. It's starting to make more and more sense of Hamilton's move. They must've lured him on the promise that there would be top technical people joining Merc as well as the potential for the 2014 power unit.

I really don't think that is the case as much as some would like it to be, I think the recent moves and possible additional moves have happened and are happening now, not last year when the deal with Lewis was done.

Regarding how his new Mercedes role came about, Wolff confirmed that things have moved fast – and that the approach did not come from Niki Lauda.

“It has happened pretty quickly, actually. I have been involved with Mercedes since many years in DTM, so I have known people and all the company for quite some time. But actually things turned out to progress pretty quickly – so a couple of weeks at the maximum.


http://adamcooperf1....rcedes-rumours/

#137 slmk

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 13:12

Mercedes board of directors are obviously finalizing and proving funds from the company to pay their salaries. I think some will be given notice soon. With logic, Mercedes can hold the 2010-12 recruitments resposible for the teams failure while getting a Massive pay. Hard decision are being made i suppose. I expect the original Brawn recruits to get the shaft soon.

So lets see who they have removed/retired from Brawn's Formula 1 Project:
- Schumi (Hamilton)
- Norbert Haug (Toto)

I think these can follow soon in light of new "expected" recruitments:
-Paddy Lowe (Ross Brawn, his days @merc looks to be over)
-Mike Elliot (to reduce excess baggage, expect 2 Tech guys to be let go, maybe Aldo Costa & Bob Bell)
-Geoff Willies (may remain but in a new position, or maybe not)

If they all stay, Mercedes will spend broke soon, and not because they are paying Hamilton more than what Mclaren did. Where the hell will they have the money to pay all these excess "high payed" people and still save money to develop their cars.

Mercedes irritation with Brawn might be running high coz not only did recruit Schumi for a BIG contract, he looks to have planned to use Mercedes as a retirement plan for all the other techies. It's not cheap lol.


Mercedes will get money from McLaren regarding the engines - and it used to pay part of Hamilton's salary before.

Besides, what McLaren used to pay Lewis is somewhat irrelevant here.


#138 Slackbladder

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 13:18

I really don't think that is the case as much as some would like it to be, I think the recent moves and possible additional moves have happened and are happening now, not last year when the deal with Lewis was done.



http://adamcooperf1....rcedes-rumours/


Maybe, but I think it's clear that Merc are pretty damn serious now about creating success, and that must have been part of the drive behind Hamilton moving there. It might not have been concrete, but those which thought Lewis moved 'just for the money' are surely mistaken now.

#139 bonjon1979a

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 13:18

I really don't think that is the case as much as some would like it to be, I think the recent moves and possible additional moves have happened and are happening now, not last year when the deal with Lewis was done.



http://adamcooperf1....rcedes-rumours/


I think what people say happened and what actually happened aren't always the same thing. It was a huge deal for Wolff to go to Merc in this capacity, he's taken shares in the company, working out his contract would probably take weeks of wrangling. I know he's said that it happened quickly but I'm very dubious about that. It's a better PR thing for him to say rather than say that he's known he's leaving Williams for months. These are big decisions that need to be cleared at the top level, in organisations the size of Merc it's crazy to think that this hasn't been worked out over a period of at least months.

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#140 P123

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 13:24

Big upheavals never work in F1 teams. The teams that are currently winning have relative stability and they have taken their time to get to the top.
The nasty thing with manufacturer teams is that too much is expected in too short a time space, leading to knee-jerk reactions and big upheavels year-on-year.
Change is needed but it has to dosed. This is all too much. Not going to work in my opinion.


Problem is that the Merc board are throwing new management at the F1 team, who in turn are throwing their weight around and making their presence felt. Their trust in Lauda is bizarre given his complete failure at Jaguar. The result at the moment appears to be a bit of a jumbled mess of upheavel. What about Fry? What about Brawn? What about Costa and Willis, etc?

#141 slmk

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 13:24

EDIT:

Adam Cooper @adamcooperf1
#F1 Speculation that Ross Brawn could be a victim of a coup is astonishing given his record. But with Niki Lauda anything is possible...


Adam Cooper @adamcooperf1
#F1 Ross doesn't want to go on forever but am sure he wants to work with @LewisHamilton for a while yet...


Interesting article by Joe Saward. Pretty much confirms that Nick Fry is gone or will be demoted (would he remain). As for Brawn...

http://joesaward.wor...-of-toto-wolff/

Edited by slmk, 22 January 2013 - 13:36.
Quote only a few lines


#142 nomi

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 13:28

Sounds like Toto Wolff is highly regarded or not?

Is he really gonna take Merc to the top?

Is Merc going all out?

#143 Juggles

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 13:30

I'm interested to see what the Mercedes structure looks like when the dust settles.

I don't know enough about the inner workings of an F1 team to say whether Brawn leaving would be good in the long run. He's always seemed like a steady hand on the rudder. However, I can also understand a complete overhaul to really give the impression of a new team moving into a new era.

Given a change of scenery is one of the reasons Hamilton left McLaren I think he might find it quite odd deferring to Lowe, a man who was never responsible for the day to day managing of Hamilton (in the same way Whitmarsh was) but who may become so in his rumoured new role. I wonder how both sides would find it growing into a new job with the constant reminder of their shared history. Will Lowe be able to see Hamilton as a different man, and vice versa?

#144 as65p

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 13:33

Interesting article by Joe Saward. Pretty much confirms that Nick Fry is gone or will be demoted (would he remain). As for Brawn...

http://joesaward.wor...-of-toto-wolff/


More cynical voices in the F1 world have suggested that this may end up being the start of the end for Mercedes as a Formula 1 team owner, unless the team does make a breakthrough. Selling equity to racing people will make it easier for the company to slide out of team ownership and return to being just an engine manufacturer if there is not success.


This.

To me it sounds like the Daimler board has decided to throw everything at one mighty last assault to become a top team within the near future (maybe 3 years at most) and simultaneously prepare for the bail out if it doesn't work.

Edited by as65p, 22 January 2013 - 13:34.


#145 BackOnTop

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 13:36

Mercedes will get money from McLaren regarding the engines - and it used to pay part of Hamilton's salary before.

Besides, what McLaren used to pay Lewis is somewhat irrelevant here.

Thats what I said.. "..not because of Hamilton's salary"... which is not that different then the highly paid Schumi he's replacing.

#146 slmk

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 13:40

This.

To me it sounds like the Daimler board has decided to throw everything at one mighty last assault to become a top team within the near future (maybe 3 years at most) and simultaneously prepare for the bail out if it doesn't work.


I don't think it's that relevant though. Actually, in terms of corporate finance/law, it'd likely be harder to sell the team to a third party (unless Wolff or Lauda could come up with a financial backer), because of all the minority shareholder protections.

#147 bonjon1979a

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 13:42

This.

To me it sounds like the Daimler board has decided to throw everything at one mighty last assault to become a top team within the near future (maybe 3 years at most) and simultaneously prepare for the bail out if it doesn't work.


I'd say that's not too far off the mark. They really need to make an impact in the next three years.

#148 SunnyENTP

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 13:42

Big upheavals never work in F1 teams. The teams that are currently winning have relative stability and they have taken their time to get to the top.
The nasty thing with manufacturer teams is that too much is expected in too short a time space, leading to knee-jerk reactions and big upheavels year-on-year.
Change is needed but it has to dosed. This is all too much. Not going to work in my opinion.



Of course! Look how Ferrari changed the people at the top and driver in 96 and look how badly it turned out. While Toyota for 7 years stuck with the same people at the top bar Mike Gascoyne and retaining drivers like Trulli forever.

#149 Timstr11

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 13:51

Christian Nimmervoll ‏@MST_ChristianN
hear that ross #brawn is not at all happy with recent developments at #MercedesAMGF1 and indicated he might consider resignation.

I knew this amateur Lauda/Wolff tandem would create a mess.
Now I feel sorry for Lewis and Rosberg.

#150 BackOnTop

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 13:54

Eddie Jordan, of Hamilton-Mercedes fame has spoken:- "Lowe in, Brawn & Fry out"
http://planetf1.com/...awn-And-Fry-Out

"Paddy Lowe is going to Mercedes and it would appear that Brawn and Fry are on their way out, and Lowe will be there in a very senior capacity," Jordan is quoted as saying by BBC Sport.

"Lowe won't be technical director; he'll be more senior than that. But he won't be called team principal either," Jordan said, "because that will be Wolff. But Lowe will effectively be running the team on a day-to-day basis."