Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 8 votes

Paddy Lowe to Mercedes?


  • Please log in to reply
1085 replies to this topic

#151 BernieEc

BernieEc
  • Member

  • 2,131 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 22 January 2013 - 13:57

I knew this amateur Lauda/Wolff tandem would create a mess.
Now I feel sorry for Lewis and Rosberg.


To be honest Brawn hasn't really delivered since he came in. Though he's a likeable chap and could be seen as a steady hand but that doesn't win championships.

he should also know that ..."the bigger they are...the harder they punch" and they don't come no bigger than Mercedes

Advertisement

#152 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,625 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 22 January 2013 - 14:02

To be honest Brawn hasn't really delivered since he came in. Though he's a likeable chap and could be seen as a steady hand but that doesn't win championships.

he should also know that ..."the bigger they are...the harder they punch" and they don't come no bigger than Mercedes

You cannot blame Brawn for Honda withdrawing. That was a major disruption.
It's really not fair.

3 Years into the Mercedes relationship where Mercedes has NOT put in enough resource into the team cannot be all be down to Brawn either.


#153 nomi

nomi
  • Member

  • 288 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 22 January 2013 - 14:02

Does Lauda think he's a big godfather, it's so sleazy to think what he's doing.

Toto Wolff as principal, wonder what the hell Lewis is thinking.

#154 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 9,512 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 22 January 2013 - 14:08

This.

To me it sounds like the Daimler board has decided to throw everything at one mighty last assault to become a top team within the near future (maybe 3 years at most) and simultaneously prepare for the bail out if it doesn't work.


That's a very clever interpretation and likely true. :up: I often disagree with Saward's ramblings but sometimes he hits the nail on its head with remarkable precision.

#155 TheUltimateWorrier

TheUltimateWorrier
  • Member

  • 833 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 22 January 2013 - 14:12

This.

To me it sounds like the Daimler board has decided to throw everything at one mighty last assault to become a top team within the near future (maybe 3 years at most) and simultaneously prepare for the bail out if it doesn't work.

And if Mercedes F1 do become a huge success in the next two/three years don't be surprised if they add another big name to the giant list of people they've already acquired; Vettel :smoking: .

#156 SunnyENTP

SunnyENTP
  • Member

  • 717 posts
  • Joined: August 12

Posted 22 January 2013 - 14:15

And if Mercedes F1 do become a huge success in the next two/three years don't be surprised if they add another big name to the giant list of people they've already acquired; Vettel :smoking: .



Forget Vettel. Lauda already approached Newey.

#157 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 9,512 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 22 January 2013 - 14:16

Does Lauda think he's a big godfather, it's so sleazy to think what he's doing.

Toto Wolff as principal, wonder what the hell Lewis is thinking.


I'm highly suspicious on Lauda and Wolff hasn't proved a lot yet in F1, but sometimes it's better to hire people on the rise than proven but burnt out top names. Christian Horner only had a feeder series record before having a big hand on Red Bull's rise to fame.

Indeed, Mercedes seem to be mimicking Red Bull. I've read an article somewhere (Saward?) comparing the role of Lauda to Helmut Marko's, but you could also say that Wolff is Mercedes' Horner and Lowe is about to become Mercedes' Newey.

As a sidenote, we've had a lot of talk on how this is a challenge for Lewis Hamilton, to "build up a team", but that's even more the case for Paddy Lowe! If/when he joins. He's the guy that'll be responsible for the biggest part that makes up performance - the actual car.

#158 karlth

karlth
  • Member

  • 16,241 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 22 January 2013 - 14:24

Interesting that none of the regular F1 journos is running with the story.


Autosport is reporting that discussions have taken place.

#159 TheUltimateWorrier

TheUltimateWorrier
  • Member

  • 833 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 22 January 2013 - 14:26

Forget Vettel. Lauda already approached Newey.

If Mercedes end up building an incredible car for 2014 and beyond, why would they need Newey? There's always a need for Vettel.

Advertisement

#160 Owen

Owen
  • Member

  • 10,468 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 22 January 2013 - 14:30

BBC leaping in with heading 'Mercedes want to replace Brawn'
Not sure where they get that idea from though...
http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21143847

#161 BernieEc

BernieEc
  • Member

  • 2,131 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 22 January 2013 - 14:30

Gentlemen.....and Ladies, quick question

If Paddy Lowe were to Join Mercedes, how long will it be before he actually starts working with them. Won't he be on some sort of leave (about 4-6months) before McLaren fully allows him to join. Witht hat in mind he will have little to no input in the 2013 car and the 2014 will be significantly underway.

is it possible if he does join for him to start the season with Merc, without any cooling off period? or is it that these things differ and depends on the negotiating from team to team

Edited by BernieEc, 22 January 2013 - 14:39.


#162 slmk

slmk
  • Member

  • 4,398 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 22 January 2013 - 14:32

I'm highly suspicious on Lauda and Wolff hasn't proved a lot yet in F1, but sometimes it's better to hire people on the rise than proven but burnt out top names. Christian Horner only had a feeder series record before having a big hand on Red Bull's rise to fame.

Indeed, Mercedes seem to be mimicking Red Bull. I've read an article somewhere (Saward?) comparing the role of Lauda to Helmut Marko's, but you could also say that Wolff is Mercedes' Horner and Lowe is about to become Mercedes' Newey.

As a sidenote, we've had a lot of talk on how this is a challenge for Lewis Hamilton, to "build up a team", but that's even more the case for Paddy Lowe! If/when he joins. He's the guy that'll be responsible for the biggest part that makes up performance - the actual car.


But only at a senior level, though. Costa, Willis, Bell are under much more pressure.

#163 Zoetrope

Zoetrope
  • Member

  • 1,041 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 22 January 2013 - 14:32

There's always a need for Vettel.


Just like RBR doesn't need Hamilton now, successful Mercedes won't need Vettel. But we are going far into fantasy now, let's see their 2013 car first.

#164 maverick69

maverick69
  • Member

  • 4,437 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 22 January 2013 - 14:33

Gentlemen.....and Ladies, quick question

If {addy Lowe were to Join Mercedes, how long will it be before he actually starts working with them. Won't he be on some sort of leave (about 4-6months) before McLaren fully allows him to join. Witht hat in mind he will have little to no input in the 2013 car and the 2014 will be significantly underway.

is it possible if he does join for him to start the season with Merc, without any cooling off period? or is it that these things differ and depends on the negotiating from team to team


Pretty much this.

Merc may give McLaren a discount on their engines, for example, to speed up the move.

#165 SunnyENTP

SunnyENTP
  • Member

  • 717 posts
  • Joined: August 12

Posted 22 January 2013 - 14:35

If Mercedes end up building an incredible car for 2014 and beyond, why would they need Newey? There's always a need for Vettel.


IF.... and even if they have an incredible car there is no certainty they can maintain development. They need someone who has the reputation of continuity and ingenuous ideas. Look how Brawn folded after 09. As for Vettel they already have Lewis, oh and dont forget according to Perez Nico is faster than Vettel. :wave:

#166 Owen

Owen
  • Member

  • 10,468 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 22 January 2013 - 14:36

If reports are true, it's this negotiation that's playing out right now.

#167 slmk

slmk
  • Member

  • 4,398 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 22 January 2013 - 14:51

Toto Wolff denies the recent Lowe in/Brawn out rumours. However, it does sound like Fry is on his way out.

http://www.jamesalle...ace-ross-brawn/

As an aside, Wolff would already be 30% owner of Mercedes F1 - that's huge.

Edited by slmk, 22 January 2013 - 14:53.


#168 Juggles

Juggles
  • Member

  • 896 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 22 January 2013 - 14:58

If Mercedes end up building an incredible car for 2014 and beyond, why would they need Newey? There's always a need for Vettel.


Not when Mercedes already has Rosberg as a perfectly capable number two driver

#169 Kvothe

Kvothe
  • Member

  • 6,821 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:07

If Lowe makes the jump, the question 'how many will follow?' is one I want to see answered.

#170 Kvothe

Kvothe
  • Member

  • 6,821 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:08

If Mercedes end up building an incredible car for 2014 and beyond, why would they need Newey? There's always a need for Vettel.


Why? I thought Rosberg was the fastest German in F1 today  ;)

#171 Wiggy

Wiggy
  • Member

  • 450 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:08

Lauda makes my skin crawl, i expect him to be badmouthing Lewis to the press before mid-season.

#172 Wiggy

Wiggy
  • Member

  • 450 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:11

I wonder how long Wolff has been working for Merecedes on the quiet? His feet seem to be firmly under the table already, he's clued up on Kubica and the DTM operation too.

#173 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,625 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:23

I wonder how long Wolff has been working for Merecedes on the quiet? His feet seem to be firmly under the table already, he's clued up on Kubica and the DTM operation too.

Not.
He hasn't even been to Brackley according to his own words today.

#174 David1976

David1976
  • Member

  • 825 posts
  • Joined: September 08

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:27

Mercedes board of directors are obviously finalizing and proving funds from the company to pay their salaries. I think some will be given notice soon. With logic, Mercedes can hold the 2010-12 recruitments resposible for the teams failure while getting a Massive pay. Hard decision are being made i suppose. I expect the original Brawn recruits to get the shaft soon.

So lets see who they have removed/retired from Brawn's Formula 1 Project:
- Schumi (Hamilton)
- Norbert Haug (Toto

I think these can follow soon in light of new "expected" recruitments:

-Nikki Lauda (Nick Fry)
-Paddy Lowe (Ross Brawn, his days @merc looks to be over)
-Mike Elliot (to reduce excess baggage, expect 2 Tech guys to be let go, maybe Aldo Costa & Bob Bell)
-Geoff Willies (may remain but in a new position, or maybe not)

If they all stay, Mercedes will spend broke soon, and not because they are paying Hamilton more than what Mclaren did. Where the hell will they have the money to pay all these excess "high payed" people and still save money to develop their cars.

Mercedes irritation with Brawn might be running high coz not only did recruit Schumi for a BIG contract, he looks to have planned to use Mercedes as a retirement plan for all the other techies. It's not cheap lol.


QUOTE OF THE DAY.

This to me is probably a lot closer to the mark than many would care to admit. Much as I rated Brawn I feel his best days are behind him now. The changes/potential changes at Merc look to be some of the ones they should have made 2 years ago. Perhaps then they didnt have the momentum or inclination to make the moves but now...


#175 slmk

slmk
  • Member

  • 4,398 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:30

Not.
He hasn't even been to Brackley according to his own words today.


What does going to Brackley have to do with this? We are in 2013, not 1993.

#176 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,625 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:34

What does going to Brackley have to do with this? We are in 2013, not 1993.

The man has barely been appointed. He knows Sh*t about the team and the people working on the floor. Unless you think he can run an F1 team with a magic wand from a distance. So no, he cannot have his feet firmly under the table.

#177 Lazy

Lazy
  • Member

  • 5,188 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:35

Sounds like a god awful mess that will inevitably lead to resentment within the team and too many bosses trying to maneuver round each other.

Recipe for a total disaster imo.

#178 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,625 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:39

Sounds like a god awful mess that will inevitably lead to resentment within the team and too many bosses trying to maneuver round each other.

Recipe for a total disaster imo.

My point exactly.

#179 Ferrari2183

Ferrari2183
  • Member

  • 8,890 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:42

Send Brawn back to Ferrari please.

Sorry for the off topic.

Advertisement

#180 slmk

slmk
  • Member

  • 4,398 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:43

Sounds like a god awful mess that will inevitably lead to resentment within the team and too many bosses trying to maneuver round each other.

Recipe for a total disaster imo.


Can't be worse than 2011-2012. Fry/Brawn has not worked at all, thus far.

#181 teejay

teejay
  • Member

  • 3,634 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:45

Nick Fry is useless and has simply used his slimy ways to milk another team for more $$.

Good riddance.

#182 BernieEc

BernieEc
  • Member

  • 2,131 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:46

Sounds like a god awful mess that will inevitably lead to resentment within the team and too many bosses trying to maneuver round each other.

Recipe for a total disaster imo.


to recruit one of the designers whose car was arguably a match for a Newey designed machine in 2012
to recruit one of the top 3 drivers in the paddock
bring in senior management from your rivals to head your motorsport division
let go of those who haven't delivered

is that really a disaster?

#183 Kvothe

Kvothe
  • Member

  • 6,821 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:47

Sounds like a god awful mess that will inevitably lead to resentment within the team and too many bosses trying to maneuver round each other.

Recipe for a total disaster imo.


Shall we wait and see what happens before declaring anything a mess? It's still not even confirmed whether Lowe's decided to join.

Someone else made a point that they might be trying emulate the structure of Red Bull, which I think might be a pretty good guess, and might stand a chance at being successful.

Edited by Kvothe, 22 January 2013 - 15:48.


#184 Viktoria

Viktoria
  • Member

  • 87 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:47

Not sure if I'm right here with this post (too many treads for Lewis/Mercedes)..

Just to let you know: Lewis signed with Ross Brawn, Norbert Haug, Mr. Fry and Nikki Lauda and Dr. Z (as Lewis called him)!
And now it turns out: Toto Wolff, Paddy Lowe, Nikki Lauda and Dr. Zetzsche, is that what Lewis really wants??

Edited by Viktoria, 22 January 2013 - 15:49.


#185 F1ultimate

F1ultimate
  • Member

  • 2,861 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:49

to recruit one of the designers whose car was arguably a match for a Newey designed machine in 2012
to recruit one of the top 3 drivers in the paddock
bring in senior management from your rivals to head your motorsport division
let go of those who haven't delivered

is that really a disaster?


I would say no. No disrespect to Brawn but in the past three years Mercedes have been in no-mans land behind the front runners but faster than the midfield. The team can't go any lower than it has been the past three years, so a reshuffle might not be that bad.

#186 Raziel

Raziel
  • Member

  • 2,080 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:49

Send Brawn back to Ferrari please.

Sorry for the off topic.


There's more chance that he'll end up at McLaren. He is done with Ferrari, just like Adrian Newey with McLaren. Books closed for both of them.

#187 Mc_Silver

Mc_Silver
  • Member

  • 2,148 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:50

There is lots of speculation going on in Mercedes. It is not good for Lewis and Nico. Too much focus on politics rather than car. If Lowe leaves McLaren, I hope McLaren will sign a contract with Brawn immediately. It would be good move from McLaren

#188 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,661 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:51

Send Brawn back to Ferrari please.

Sorry for the off topic.



That's not that far fetched atm.

#189 F1ultimate

F1ultimate
  • Member

  • 2,861 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:52

There's more chance that he'll end up at McLaren. He is done with Ferrari, just like Adrian Newey with McLaren. Books closed for both of them.


I'm not sure he would be able to stand working under Ron's micro management culture. I see Williams as a better fit for him.

#190 maverick69

maverick69
  • Member

  • 4,437 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:56

:lol:

Brawn at McLaren?!

I think there's more chance of me getting to the moon on a motorbike!

#191 TheUltimateWorrier

TheUltimateWorrier
  • Member

  • 833 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 22 January 2013 - 15:56

I see Williams as a better fit for him.

I like that, a straight swap, Ross for Toto.

#192 olliek88

olliek88
  • Member

  • 4,044 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 22 January 2013 - 16:03

I wonder how long Wolff has been working for Merecedes on the quiet? His feet seem to be firmly under the table already, he's clued up on Kubica and the DTM operation too.


That's a totally separate issue, Toto has a 49% stake in HWA who run one of Mercedes DTM outfits hence why he is "clued up", he meet with Kubica the other week and some winter event thing.



#193 F1ultimate

F1ultimate
  • Member

  • 2,861 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 22 January 2013 - 16:08

There is lots of speculation going on in Mercedes. It is not good for Lewis and Nico. Too much focus on politics rather than car. If Lowe leaves McLaren, I hope McLaren will sign a contract with Brawn immediately. It would be good move from McLaren


Boardroom politics are always brewing. Mercedes are just restructuring the team to be a one that delivers spectacular results now that they have signed Lewis Hamilton. So I'd imagine Lewis was just the ignition to kick start the management change that had been in planning for sometime. This shouldn't effect Lewis since he must have been briefed on the team's plans for the future, or should I say his future?

#194 Bloggsworth

Bloggsworth
  • Member

  • 7,449 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 22 January 2013 - 16:09

Brawn just got a vote of confidence from Wolff, so that's Brawn out then.

#195 Lazy

Lazy
  • Member

  • 5,188 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 22 January 2013 - 16:22

Shall we wait and see what happens before declaring anything a mess? It's still not even confirmed whether Lowe's decided to join.

Someone else made a point that they might be trying emulate the structure of Red Bull, which I think might be a pretty good guess, and might stand a chance at being successful.

One of Red Bull's main strengths imo is that they have a clear head of design, Adrian Newey. Mercedes seem to be heading for 4 or 5 TD's, it's going to very difficult to coordinate.

This sounds very much like Lauda's MO which, I would say, is not encouraging

#196 Raziel

Raziel
  • Member

  • 2,080 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 22 January 2013 - 16:22

:lol:

Brawn at McLaren?!

I think there's more chance of me getting to the moon on a motorbike!


yeah big shocker there.. just like Adrian from big McLaren to a totally new Red Bull team, Alonso to McLaren back in 2006, a longtime McLaren guy Pat Fry to Ferrari, Hamilton to Mercedes, 20 years old McLaren employee Paddy Lowe to Mercedes etc.. If you've followed F1 closely and long enough you should know the fact that in F1 everything is possible.

#197 JRizzle86

JRizzle86
  • Member

  • 2,087 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 22 January 2013 - 16:24

If the Merc board think Brawn is the issue I think they have missed the point. Merc bought Brawn, which was Honda which was BAR. The team needs more than leadership from the top it needs a good team from the base up which i think it has always lacked. 2009 was Brawn pushing the rules and he should be applauded for that. Otherwise the team on the whole has been weak and that is not the fault of Brawn.

#198 maverick69

maverick69
  • Member

  • 4,437 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 22 January 2013 - 16:35

yeah big shocker there.. just like Adrian from big McLaren to a totally new Red Bull team, Alonso to McLaren back in 2006, a longtime McLaren guy Pat Fry to Ferrari, Hamilton to Mercedes, 20 years old McLaren employee Paddy Lowe to Mercedes etc.. If you've followed F1 closely and long enough you should know the fact that in F1 everything is possible.


Thanks for the insight. I'll follow longer and more closely in future.........


#199 BackOnTop

BackOnTop
  • Member

  • 870 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 22 January 2013 - 16:40

QUOTE OF THE DAY.

This to me is probably a lot closer to the mark than many would care to admit. Much as I rated Brawn I feel his best days are behind him now. The changes/potential changes at Merc look to be some of the ones they should have made 2 years ago. Perhaps then they didnt have the momentum or inclination to make the moves but now...

I thinks it's only logical to assume that no way in hell Mercedes Board would "keep" & "pay" ALL of these bigwigs together in 2013. Here's a list if Mercedes doesn't fire anyone:-

-Hamilton+Rosberg (Salaried)
-Ross Brawn
-Nick Fry
-Geoff Willis
-Bob Bell
-Aldo Costa
-Mike Elliot
-Nikki Lauda
-Toto Wolff
-Paddy Lowe

How can Mercedes afford the abovd list... and how are they then going to fund the cars development in 2013 if they go broke before season has even started. So if they are making changes, Brawn & his recruits are gonna go... Or why bother in the first place with Toto & Lowe.

Just like drivers have a perform-by-date (Schumi)... So does Brawn. Corporates can't keep emloyees due to their past history... all Merc care about is what Brawn & Schumi did at Mercedes.

Advertisement

#200 boldhakka

boldhakka
  • Member

  • 2,799 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 22 January 2013 - 16:50

More and more sources are carrying this now, including the BBC (Benson and EJ). Big moves by Merc, they're going for a serious push.