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Paddy Lowe to Mercedes?


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#401 VoonDerful

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:21

How many team bosses do Merc need to succeed really??

Try reduce the no., success might come naturally if you get what i meant.....

Edited by VoonDerful, 29 January 2013 - 10:22.


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#402 jjcale

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:42

Have youu actually read what I wrote? I said he has a problem with lowe joining, but it not personal.

That may be your opinion, but I have not said he 'needed' a change, I said he obviously wanted it


I suspect our difference in perspective is due to the fact that I dont think LH's departure from Macca was completely voluntary. I do agree though that he wanted to leave.

BTW "needed a change" in the context I used it means the same as "wanted a change".... sorry if you think that was meant to be quoting you - I was using a common english expression for when someone has grown bored with their current environment.

Any sane driver though, since Lowe would not be joining to design, but to replace Brawn. That is not a good option for LH, it seems, according to himself. so there is simply no use in theorizing about personal feelings or frictions between them? NO?


I thought we were not sure whether Lowe joining would necessarily mean Brawn leaving?

... what's the point of Lowe joining if he would not be a designer? That's where his skills lie... IMO the question really is: will Lowe replace Brawn with himself .... which he may feel more comfortable doing if his man Paddy also joins Merc to back him up on the technical side.

#403 Szoelloe

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:29

I suspect our difference in perspective is due to the fact that I dont think LH's departure from Macca was completely voluntary. I do agree though that he wanted to leave.

BTW "needed a change" in the context I used it means the same as "wanted a change".... sorry if you think that was meant to be quoting you - I was using a common english expression for when someone has grown bored with their current environment.



I thought we were not sure whether Lowe joining would necessarily mean Brawn leaving?

... what's the point of Lowe joining if he would not be a designer? That's where his skills lie... IMO the question really is: will Lowe replace Brawn with himself .... which he may feel more comfortable doing if his man Paddy also joins Merc to back him up on the technical side.


:)

I don't know for sure, I have not been following his position evolving for the best or worst at Mclaren that closely. I do think though that he left volantarily. It may have come as a shocker to his team, since they might quite obviously - and rightfully - assumed that since there were no possible vacancies at the big ones, they can relax, and LH is just tugging at the leash. He certainly seemed to be restless, and I don't think there were any unsolvable personal frictions there that would make his position unbearable, or that he was pushed out by anyone because of something like that. but, of course, that's just my 2 cents, you may still be right.

As to Lowe, Brawn had made it crystal clear that PL was a replacement for him, and not an addition to the actual design office at Merc. LH's very first official statement as a Mercedes driver was to back Brawn. That is perfectly understandable, if as he says, working with Brawn was a factor in his signing. Again my 2 cents though.

I don't have anything against Lowe personally, but if he joins Merc because Brawn leaves, that would upset a lot of people at the team, and it seems LH too. If indeed this was Lauda's plot( could be Wolff though, since allegedely he was in contact with Lowe at Williams), I consider it to be a huge mistake, to say it nicely.

#404 flatlander48

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 15:44

....and I think the "he needed a change of scenery thing" is too romantic .... what sane driver would not want the guy who led the design of the best car from the previous year on his team?????

If he has no problem with Lowe joining Merc he should be the lead cheerleader for the move... No??

.... and dont tell me he is being diplomatic... the guy is like an open book.


How many folks want to remain at home indefinitely at home (parental health and financial conditions aside)?

Regarding Brawn/Lowe, I believe it wasn't the situation Hamilton signed up for. All this happened well after he signed. Besides, it would likely be Fall before Lowe would arrive if he decided to move. He would essentially have no effect on the 2013 car. It would make 2013 sort of a lost year, compared to Brawn being in place now. And, many suspect that the 2013 Mercedes to be initially decent and quite good towards the end of the season. It would be sort of silly to start over with a new guy if you're on an up trend.

Edited by flatlander48, 29 January 2013 - 15:44.


#405 flatlander48

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 15:52

You would be disappointed with my answer about that incident.

Then you would be in a distinct minority. Basically the point is that Dr. Marko's over the top pro-Vettel stance leads him to say some ridiculous things sometimes.

It's 2013, lets look forward, instead dwelling on the past. LL is an essential process, but then one has to move on, don't you think?


The thing is that one season is inexorably attached to the previous ones. It is a continuum; it is not stop and start. The only way to judge the next is to use the previous as a reference.

#406 peroa

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:28

Alan Baldwin ‏@alanbaldwinf1
Hmm, no mention of Paddy Lowe in new schedule for Thursday's McLaren launch. Don't suppose that's a surprise.



#407 Szoelloe

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:59

^^I suppose it is not. the talks were leaked, PL is in a very awkward situation atm. Really curious how this pans out now. What will he do now?

#408 slmk

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:10

^^I suppose it is not. the talks were leaked, PL is in a very awkward situation atm. Really curious how this pans out now. What will he do now?


Well... join the team on the rise?

#409 One

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:39

It is a merry goround of the Tech director...

Lowe to Mercedes, Alison to Mclaren, and then who will go to Lotus? James Key?
I assume no 'directors' will leave Mercedes tho...

#410 boldhakka

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 14:49

^^I suppose it is not. the talks were leaked, PL is in a very awkward situation atm. Really curious how this pans out now. What will he do now?


It shouldn't be a surprise to any team that their top personelle are courted by other teams. I doubt Lowe's talks with Merc have made things awkward.

Unless they are a cult and expect absolute loyalty, this should be routine.

#411 JRizzle86

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 15:08

Well... join the team on the rise?


Only on the rise because they fell from on high.

#412 senna da silva

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 15:20

Tin foil hat theory: The public pursuit of Paddy was in fact an effort to destabilise McLaren.

#413 teejay

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 15:26

I would assume a team of McLarens capability wouldnt even feel this as more than a blip on the radar.

#414 senna da silva

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 15:42

I would assume a team of McLarens capability wouldnt even feel this as more than a blip on the radar.


I wouldn't think so either, just putting it out there as a cause of distraction.

#415 flatlander48

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 17:10

I wouldn't think so either, just putting it out there as a cause of distraction.


Then why not someone from RB? Not Newey of course, but the situation is static until he leaves/retires.

#416 jjcale

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 19:06

Tin foil hat theory: The public pursuit of Paddy was in fact an effort to destabilise McLaren.


I dont endorse your theory but I have said on here before that it is my view that if Merc are serious about remaining in F1 they need to do everything in their power to destabilise Macca... they simply cannot afford to be consistently beaten by a non-works teams over the next 5 or so years.... just like a driver's first competion is his team mate in the same car IMO a team's first competitor are those who share the same power plant and its a complete waste of marketing dollars for a manufacturer to be consistently beaten by a customer.

As for your theory, I dont agree as the link between Wolff and Lowe predates Wolff's involement with Merc.

#417 senna da silva

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 19:28

I dont endorse your theory but I have said on here before that it is my view that if Merc are serious about remaining in F1 they need to do everything in their power to destabilise Macca... they simply cannot afford to be consistently beaten by a non-works teams over the next 5 or so years.... just like a driver's first competion is his team mate in the same car IMO a team's first competitor are those who share the same power plant and its a complete waste of marketing dollars for a manufacturer to be consistently beaten by a customer.

As for your theory, I dont agree as the link between Wolff and Lowe predates Wolff's involement with Merc.


I completely agree, I was just putting the theory out there as the timing coincided with a critical time in the finalisation of the new car.

#418 MadYarpen

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:58

James Allen ‏@Jamesallenonf1

#f1 Looking at running order from McLaren for today, I see that Paddy Lowe is not presenting tech segment, nor is he in Q&A session.

#419 femi

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:22

James Allen ‏@Jamesallenonf1

#f1 Looking at running order from McLaren for today, I see that Paddy Lowe is not presenting tech segment, nor is he in Q&A session.


Some have dismissed PL's absence as meaningless be read into. I disagree, the launch is the perfect venue to put an end to the speculations if there is not much in it. The fact that they have elected to keep him out of sight is an indication to me that at the very least, Mclaren are unsure if PL is staying and have not obtained such guarantees from him.

One thing is sure, this is not the situation Mclaren would prefer to be in as far as PL is concerned. If they could, they would have loved to do a RB who quelled similar speculations by announcing contract extension for CH.

I fail to see how Mclaren are going to match the likes of RB, Merc and Ferrari financially moving foward unless they are able to secure the kind of deal they had with Mercedes.

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#420 JRizzle86

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:25

Some have dismissed PL's absence as meaningless be read into. I disagree, the launch is the perfect venue to put an end to the speculations if there is not much in it. The fact that they have elected to keep him out of sight is an indication to me that at the very least, Mclaren are unsure if PL is staying and have not obtained such guarantees from him.

One thing is sure, this is not the situation Mclaren would prefer to be in as far as PL is concerned. If they could, they would have loved to do a RB who quelled similar speculations by announcing contract extension for CH.

I fail to see how Mclaren are going to match the likes of RB, Merc and Ferrari financially moving foward unless they are able to secure the kind of deal they had with Mercedes.


The first question Paddy would be asked is "Are you staying at McLaren?" It would just be a distraction to the launch.

Edited by JRizzle86, 31 January 2013 - 09:25.


#421 McRules

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:28

James Allen ‏@Jamesallenonf1

#f1 Looking at running order from McLaren for today, I see that Paddy Lowe is not presenting tech segment, nor is he in Q&A session.

Gardening leave...??

#422 Szoelloe

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:31

Gardening leave...??


It is a possibility for sure. The big question is, where is he going then?

edit: not to mention it is not the best of news to Mc.

Edited by Szoelloe, 31 January 2013 - 09:31.


#423 peroa

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:34

The first question Paddy would be asked is "Are you staying at McLaren?" It would just be a distraction to the launch.

Come on, a technical director not present at the/his car launch means only one thing, he is gone.

Edited by peroa, 31 January 2013 - 09:35.


#424 MadYarpen

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:40

f1talks.pl ‏@f1talks

There are some rumors that Paddy Lowe was seen with garden toys earlier this week. #F1

#425 McRules

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:40

The first question Paddy would be asked is "Are you staying at McLaren?" It would just be a distraction to the launch.

Even so, the media could ask..."Where is Paddy?". so not having him in the launch cannot be justified thus!

#426 f1rules

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:40

unfortunately i agree, he is gone

#427 JRizzle86

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:40

Come on, a technical director not present at the/his car launch means only one thing, he is gone.


Or it means McLaren are still in discussions with Lowe and feel him attending at this current time would take attention away from the car aka the purpose of the event.

#428 peroa

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:42

Even so, the media could ask..."Where is Paddy?". so not having him in the launch cannot be justified thus!

They could but won't, the "media" has been briefed.

Edited by peroa, 31 January 2013 - 09:43.


#429 Wiggy

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:44

I was just in homebase, and saw Paddy Lowe buying a new lawnmower and some pruning shears

#430 McRules

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:47

Absence of Paddy can be attributed to two things, one he is in a very awkward position within the team due to the talks with mercedes or he is definitely gone. Either way its not a good thing for McLaren. :cry:

#431 bonjon1979a

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:00

This is bad news for mclaren, it's a terrible time to lose such an integral part of their operation.

#432 SunnyENTP

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:04

This is bad news for mclaren, it's a terrible time to lose such an integral part of their operation.



McLaren must be feeling pretty lowe right now.

#433 BernieEc

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:05

Come on, a technical director not present at the/his car launch means only one thing, he is gone.


its certainly not re-assuring, thats for sure!!

#434 bonjon1979a

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:11

McLaren must be feeling pretty lowe right now.


I bet Ron Dennis threw a right Paddy...

#435 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:59

@NobleF1: Looks like everyone's playing the same game at McLaren today... #whereispaddy?

#436 Szoelloe

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:27

It seems to be final then. TD not present at the car launch.

#437 JRizzle86

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:31

It seems to be final then. TD not present at the car launch.


By that theory, the only employees left at McLaren are Jenson, Sergio and Pinkham.

#438 femi

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:36

It will be interesting to see when he starts at Merc. If he starts as fast as Pat F. did at Ferrari afterl leaving Mclaren, that will confirm to me that Mclaren despite 'big, top F1 team' image are really weak when it comes to standing up to the big boys.

The best of Mclaren are leaving. LH left, PL is most likely gone to the same team as LH, who is next to jump the boat?

#439 Szoelloe

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:43

By that theory, the only employees left at McLaren are Jenson, Sergio and Pinkham.


You're joking, I assume
Edit: yep, 2013. So he is waiting for Brawn to leave or not. How convenient.

Edited by Szoelloe, 31 January 2013 - 11:51.


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#440 chumma

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:44

Was Sam Michael there? I only saw Martin, Ron and the two drivers? Im sure had this mess not been leaked to the media that Paddy like last year, would have been there, but maybe McLaren thought it best to remove everyone except the top dogs (two drivers, two men in charge) to avoid suspicion?

#441 Raziel

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:46

Whitmarsh says Lowe not at launch because "doesn't want to be a distraction... at his own election he felt it was inappropriate to be here"

Paddy Lowe will be at team for another year says Martin Whitmarsh. "The future is less certain"


#442 onewingedangel

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:47

Paddy Lowe to stay throughout 2013 - not clear after that.

James Allison confirmed to stay at Lotus specifically for 2013.

Too early to be reading into that?



#443 JRizzle86

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:50

Whitmarsh says Lowe not at launch because "doesn't want to be a distraction... at his own election he felt it was inappropriate to be here"

Paddy Lowe will be at team for another year says Martin Whitmarsh. "The future is less certain"


Wow my answer actually was true.

#444 F1ultimate

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:50

............and Eddie Jordan is right again. The absence of Paddy clearly suggests that he is having very strong thoughts about leaving and that he is at the tipping point between either leaving or staying. OR that he has been let go but told to be quiet about it until the new car has launched.

#445 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:51

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105340

McLaren says technical director Paddy Lowe is staying for 2013

#446 JRizzle86

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:52

............and Eddie Jordan is right again. The absence of Paddy clearly suggests that he is having very strong thoughts about leaving and that he is at the tipping point between either leaving or staying. OR that he has been let go but told to be quiet about it until the new car has launched.


Eddie wasn't right if he meant this year. It looks in all likelihood that Lowe may go to Mercedes in 2014, and Allison may go to McLaren.

#447 chumma

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:57

Eddie wasn't right if he meant this year. It looks in all likelihood that Lowe may go to Mercedes in 2014, and Allison may go to McLaren.

Seems to be the most likely scenario, it would all be a bit messy had it gone down the way the media predicted a few weeks ago, both having a fresh start at new teams leading up to a season, rather than already in the season would be best.

#448 SmokeScreen

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:57

Eddie wasn't right if he meant this year. It looks in all likelihood that Lowe may go to Mercedes in 2014, and Allison may go to McLaren.



Isn't Neil Oatley joint Technical Director? Do McLaren actually need another TD? They should have the luxury of grooming someone from the ranks.

Although the other issue to consider is poaching by PL if (when?) he settles into a new team.


#449 Timstr11

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:59

Martin Whitmarsh says Lowe felt ''embarrassed''.

I'm sure Lowe is not happy with who has leaked the information about him going to Merc.
I wouldn't be.

Highly speculative but I suspect motormouth Lauda.

#450 jrg19

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:00

So hes going but not yet.