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Lotus E21


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#2801 Oho

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 09:30

...


I guess people just read way too much into very vague and ambiguous comments intended not to convey any information of much value.

Kimi Räikkönen: 'Jyrkkä ehkä'

Edited by Oho, 11 April 2013 - 09:44.


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#2802 Vesuvius

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 09:37

Kimi said they think and hope they have found the answer to the loss of pace that happened at malaysia saturday and sunday, it's related to carsetups and they went to the wrong direction. now at china they will go back to the same setups Kimi used at melbourne and sepang friday sessions, when Kimi was very happy with his car.

Edited by Vesuvius, 11 April 2013 - 09:38.


#2803 SpaMaster

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 13:39

Those were some fantastic photos, intelligentsia.

I guess people just read way too much into very vague and ambiguous comments intended not to convey any information of much value.

Kimi Räikkönen: 'Jyrkkä ehkä'

Exactly. The point he wanted to stress was that he never felt uncomfortable per se in any team. Some are better than others, but that does not mean any of them were bad.

Edited by SpaMaster, 11 April 2013 - 13:43.


#2804 F.M.

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 13:43

History is on Lotus' side this weekend

The death this week of former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher can point to only one outcome for superstitious Formula One gamblers and lovers of bizarre sporting statistics - a victory for Lotus in Sunday's Chinese Grand Prix.
A flick through the sport's record books shows that the last four deaths of former British premiers have been followed immediately by victory on the racetrack for the team from Enstone.


#2805 ApexMouse

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 13:48

Thats right up there with enstone winning every time theres a new pope.

#2806 boldhakka

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 14:35

Kimi said they think and hope they have found the answer to the loss of pace that happened at malaysia saturday and sunday, it's related to carsetups and they went to the wrong direction. now at china they will go back to the same setups Kimi used at melbourne and sepang friday sessions, when Kimi was very happy with his car.


Whatever, he needs to deliver now. Why did they go in the wrong direction in Malaysia? He's been around for a decade now in F1, it's time he stopped going in the wrong setup direction. And no, it's not common at all with other top drivers (Jenson doesn't count).

Hope the weather suits Lotus.

Edited by boldhakka, 11 April 2013 - 14:36.


#2807 Seanspeed

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 14:46

Whatever, he needs to deliver now. Why did they go in the wrong direction in Malaysia? He's been around for a decade now in F1, it's time he stopped going in the wrong setup direction. And no, it's not common at all with other top drivers (Jenson doesn't count).

Hope the weather suits Lotus.

The team are just as responsible when it comes to car setup problems. Drivers get way too much blame/praise for that.

#2808 JRizzle86

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 14:53

History is on Lotus' side this weekend

The death this week of former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher can point to only one outcome for superstitious Formula One gamblers and lovers of bizarre sporting statistics - a victory for Lotus in Sunday's Chinese Grand Prix.
A flick through the sport's record books shows that the last four deaths of former British premiers have been followed immediately by victory on the racetrack for the team from Enstone.


That's not a trend to shout about really.

#2809 SpaMaster

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 15:09

Whatever, he needs to deliver now. Why did they go in the wrong direction in Malaysia? He's been around for a decade now in F1, it's time he stopped going in the wrong setup direction. And no, it's not common at all with other top drivers (Jenson doesn't count).

Hope the weather suits Lotus.

I have heard Hamilton and Vettel mention this as well. It's not just Kimi. The Good Sheperd has also done it a few times recently, the most obvious one being Spa 2010. Anyway, I don't think this is down to drivers. Teams have much more role to play in this as they are the ones who can model and reaffirm the data. Driver's role in set-up can only be pointed out like you say in the context that which set-ups a driver prefers to go fast and be comfortable. What they do during GP practice sessions are much more than that. They are optimizing the car for the race, qualy, tyre-wear, changing tracking conditions as the weekend goes on, fuel-level, etc. Drivers can't do much here.

#2810 F.M.

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 16:00

The team are just as responsible when it comes to car setup problems. Drivers get way too much blame/praise for that.

Indeed, it's more like the drivers saying the car is behaving like this and that, and I'd prefer if it behaved a bit more like this. The engineers then figure out (based on data/past experience) how they think they can achieve that. Of course drivers say things like the suspension is too hard/soft, but the refinements are so much in the details that is almost all up to the engineers.
And like always, if the conditions during Q and/or the race can differ quite a lot from practice (especially FP3 due to the time and therefor temperature difference). The drivers can basically only say how the car feels at that moment. It's up to the engineers to adjust the setup to make the car work the same in the other (i.e. hotter) conditions.

#2811 boldhakka

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 16:38

It happens a wee bit more with Kimi than with other top drivers. Going down the wrong setup path, that is. (Jenson doesn't count). Personally, I'm beginning to think, based on his propensity to say such things as "we will leave the car unchanged" etc., that for Kimi it's a little bit more of an art than a science compared to other top drivers.

#2812 SpaMaster

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 16:45

I don't think it happens any more with Kimi than with Hamilton, Vettel or Alonso. I have heard it a number of times from these drivers in the past few years.

#2813 2ms

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 17:44

It happens a wee bit more with Kimi than with other top drivers. Going down the wrong setup path, that is. (Jenson doesn't count). Personally, I'm beginning to think, based on his propensity to say such things as "we will leave the car unchanged" etc., that for Kimi it's a little bit more of an art than a science compared to other top drivers.


I haven't noticed Kimi particularly experiencing setup direction issues. Even at Lotus. Would be curious what's given you this impression.

Edited by 2ms, 11 April 2013 - 17:45.


#2814 boldhakka

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 02:13

And yet here we are, talking about setup.

Let's hope both drivers can maximize the car in quali and the race.

#2815 pryanjack

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 03:30

Looks like the Lotus pair are doing heavy fuel runs and pace seems promising

#2816 intelligentsia

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 03:39

Lotus did some strange running in this session, very inconsistent lap times and sector times. I have a feeling Kimi destroyed his tyres on his first lap.

#2817 Shiroo

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 03:42

Nah he improved his time on 13 laps old tyres by 2tenths at the end of the session. And Ted Kravitz reported that Lotus so far looks best with tyres, didnt see that much graining compared to others.

He also lost 0.8sec on his best lap by making a major mistake in S3. He should be around 5th~

#2818 pryanjack

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 03:49

Nah he improved his time on 13 laps old tyres by 2tenths at the end of the session. And Ted Kravitz reported that Lotus so far looks best with tyres, didnt see that much graining compared to others.

He also lost 0.8sec on his best lap by making a major mistake in S3. He should be around 5th~


Agreed - seemed a pretty reasonable session

#2819 Oho

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 04:31

Lotus did some strange running in this session, very inconsistent lap times and sector times. I have a feeling Kimi destroyed his tyres on his first lap.


Again I think you, well I do as well, tend to read way too much into practice lap times. I hardly have any relevant information to asses them and even if I did it would not do me much good for lack of expertise.



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#2820 F.M.

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:49

Kimi pretty fast over a single run this FP2 :)

#2821 Shiroo

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:51

I said they looked pretty fine in FP1. Though I didn't expect that good one lap pace

#2822 Finn

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:06

Uh-oh...

15:05 - Raikkonen complains over his radio about having a lot of 'front graining'.

#2823 Diderlo

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:16

What updates has Lotus run?

Edited by Diderlo, 12 April 2013 - 07:16.


#2824 Zava

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:20

new vortex generators, instead of being placed on top of the sidepod, they are attached to the "mirror support" winglet

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(pics from f1technical)

#2825 F.M.

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:24

Uh-oh...

15:05 - Raikkonen complains over his radio about having a lot of 'front graining'.

Kimi is still putting in very competitive times on those old tires. Very impressive :eek:

#2826 Oho

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:27

Kimi is still putting in very competitive times on those old tires. Very impressive :eek:


He is still running on the same softs?

#2827 F.M.

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:32

He is still running on the same softs?

Still on the yellow ones, yes
Edit: No, Kimi first did 11 laps on the medium, then 8 on the softs. Massa did 13 on M and 7 on S

Edited by F.M., 12 April 2013 - 07:37.


#2828 Zava

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:34

He is still running on the same softs?

I think they have only 1 set of softs on friday, so I assume yes.

#2829 Oho

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:37

I think they have only 1 set of softs on friday, so I assume yes.


That's what I thought as well, but being on a rather shitty streamed feed its not always easy to tell yellow and white tyre print colors apart.

#2830 Trust

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:40

Still on the yellow ones, yes
Edit: No, Kimi first did 11 laps on the medium, then 8 on the softs. Massa did 13 on M and 7 on S

Massa was on better pace overall?

#2831 intelligentsia

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:47

Still on the yellow ones, yes
Edit: No, Kimi first did 11 laps on the medium, then 8 on the softs. Massa did 13 on M and 7 on S


Only 11 laps on the used meduims? I thought Kimi did more, he started his long run earlier then the rest. The soft tyres didn't fall off that badly for him.

But Ferrari is looking very strong.


#2832 Msaman

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:47

Massa was on better pace overall?

Yeah he was a bit faster but we do not know fuel loads : )
So this can be another 2 vs 3 stopper race.
The thing I didn't like was Kimi complaining abt his front tyre.
Hopefully they will find a solution for that tonight and have another Melbourne finish :p

Edited by Msaman, 12 April 2013 - 07:49.


#2833 artista

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:56

Only 11 laps on the used meduims? I thought Kimi did more, he started his long run earlier then the rest. The soft tyres didn't fall off that badly for him.

But Ferrari is looking very strong.

Yep, it's 11 laps (just checked it). 9 timed laps, out and in-lap.
The tyres were 9 laps old when he started the run, which means a total of 20 laps on those tyres.

#2834 Jovanotti

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:58

The thing I didn't like was Kimi complaining abt his front tyre.

Don't forget also Massa was complaining all the time, yet he was constantly told his laptimes were perfectly fine. Now waiting for comments from the team.

#2835 intelligentsia

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:59

Yep, it's 11 laps (just checked it). 9 timed laps, out and in-lap.
The tyres were 9 laps old when he started the run, which means a total of 20 laps on those tyres.


Okay thanks, it felt like a long stint. :p


#2836 Shiroo

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 08:00

Only 11 laps on the used meduims? I thought Kimi did more, he started his long run earlier then the rest. The soft tyres didn't fall off that badly for him.

But Ferrari is looking very strong.

well 23 laps with good times seems reasonable:)

Edited by Shiroo, 12 April 2013 - 08:00.


#2837 Vesuvius

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 10:15

Kimi said:
- laptimes are ok and they are reasonable happy.
- they are happy with soft tyres but less happy with harder compounds.

Permane said:
-reasonable happy which was an ordinary friday for Lotus.
-Kimi's speed looks strong and he said he could have gone even quicker.
-Romain's time is not comparable as he was stuck behind Lewis on his fast lap with soft tyres.
-differences between tyrecompounds is huge...there is a difference on grip levels and the graining of soft tyres will give a lot of talking, it will be the tyre for qualifying but it will be a challenge to get them last on race.
-all in all happy with the car performance on heavy fuel load and with how tyre control. this will be a strong weekend for us.


#2838 Amin

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 10:24

Kimi said:
- laptimes are ok and they are reasonable happy.
- they are happy with soft tyres but less happy with harder compounds.

Permane said:
-reasonable happy which was an ordinary friday for Lotus.
-Kimi's speed looks strong and he said he could have gone even quicker.
-Romain's time is not comparable as he was stuck behind Lewis on his fast lap with soft tyres.
-differences between tyrecompounds is huge...there is a difference on grip levels and the graining of soft tyres will give a lot of talking, it will be the tyre for qualifying but it will be a challenge to get them last on race.
-all in all happy with the car performance on heavy fuel load and with how tyre control. this will be a strong weekend for us.


Permane sounds confident.

Grosjean seems to be suffering from the same problem that he had in Australia and Malaysia on the Friday.

#2839 tarmac

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 10:31

Grosjean problem is back. So the suspension rumor was false

Worse with new updates? Err maybe he shouldnt just copy Kimi setup

Edited by tarmac, 12 April 2013 - 10:34.


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#2840 Shiroo

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 10:36

Grosjean problem is back. So the suspension rumor was false

Worse with new updates? Err maybe he shouldnt just copy Kimi setup

Raikkonen liked update so I asume that Grosjean's driving style simply doesn't fit the car that was designed around Raikkonen maybe?

#2841 Vesuvius

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 10:42

Kimi also added that they found the answers (during fp1 and 2 )to what caused sepang pace dropping and it will not happend again at china.

#2842 Alburaq

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:12

new vortex generators, instead of being placed on top of the sidepod, they are attached to the "mirror support" winglet

Posted Image
(pics from f1technical)


from me :p

It's a nice and innovative update and few teams can copy it.


#2843 F.M.

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:17

Raikkonen liked update so I asume that Grosjean's driving style simply doesn't fit the car that was designed around Raikkonen maybe?

It sounds like they see a deficit in the (expected) downforce. That has nothing to do with driving style.

#2844 Alburaq

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:19

Did'nt watch FP2 but what you say sounds promising and it looks like Grosjean used the old exhausts/bodywork spec in FP2
https://twitter.com/...3040128/photo/1

New rear wing in the pic

Edited by Alburaq, 12 April 2013 - 11:20.


#2845 Shiroo

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:40

It sounds like they see a deficit in the (expected) downforce. That has nothing to do with driving style.

but they did everything and it still is bad. and Kimi doesn't experience so many problems. he said he was reasonable happy

#2846 F.M.

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:55

Did'nt watch FP2 but what you say sounds promising and it looks like Grosjean used the old exhausts/bodywork spec in FP2
https://twitter.com/...3040128/photo/1

New rear wing in the pic

Yeah, he did. But Grosjean said that with the old exhaust it was even worse. They might build a new car around the spare chassis for tomorrow. (Although I don't expect them to really do that)

Edited by F.M., 12 April 2013 - 11:56.


#2847 Rikhart

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 12:24

I think the only problems grosjean has, are that he´s not battling a 2 year rusty Raikkonen anymore, he´s dealing with a fully fit and up to speed one...

#2848 Hayden1

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 12:33

I think the only problems grosjean has, are that he´s not battling a 2 year rusty Raikkonen anymore, he´s dealing with a fully fit and up to speed one...

:up:
:up: :up:

#2849 eREr

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 13:20

I think the only problems grosjean has, are that he´s not battling a 2 year rusty Raikkonen anymore, he´s dealing with a fully fit and up to speed one...

BS.

#2850 Head

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 13:40

I think the only problems grosjean has, are that he´s not battling a 2 year rusty Raikkonen anymore, he´s dealing with a fully fit and up to speed one...

oh yeah ? grosjean said the car doesn't have the expected downforce it is very likely a chassis flaw , so a fully fit and up to speed raikonnen is bringing extra downforce ?