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Lotus E21


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#4201 Pitlane

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:44

I'm just tired of seeing the black cars fight through the field only to fall one short. A string of second places will not bring KR the WDC of 2013.


Oh yes it very well could if he keeps this up.

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#4202 kar

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:45

I just wonder how quick the lotus would be in the hands of Hamilton.

With the way it seems to be so gentle on its tyres, you could imagine what Hamilton could manage by wringing its neck.

#4203 Vesuvius

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:46

:clap: :up:

Lotus/Kimi is doing a great job so far this season! Would never ever have believed it :love:

That said I also don´t expect much from Monaco.


Kimi is great at monaco as long as they don't mess the steering this time, with E21 and pirellis that suit from lap 1 for him I expect Kimi to be very strong at monaco.

#4204 hello86

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:46

I just wonder how quick the lotus would be in the hands of Hamilton.

With the way it seems to be so gentle on its tyres, you could imagine what Hamilton could manage by wringing its neck.


Guess he would win every race :cat:

#4205 Vesuvius

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:46

I just wonder how quick the lotus would be in the hands of Hamilton.

With the way it seems to be so gentle on its tyres, you could imagine what Hamilton could manage by wringing its neck.


Faster in quali and slower in races :)

#4206 Trust

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:47

Kimi did a great job, but Ferrari is just to fast right now. It is a shame that Grosjean had the failure. It seems like Lotus are always second best when Red Bull is doing well they are the fastest and Lotus are behind them, then on other tracks Ferrari is the fastest and Lotus is again behind them. Lotus will be dreadful at Monaco. But so far atleast Kimi is doing a great job.

Ferrari is the fastest car this year. Alonso made a mistake in Malaysia, DRS in Bahrain and in Australia he lost a lot of time in train(though Lotus was surely best car there). So Lotus seems to be most times second best and sometimes third best when RB upps their form.

#4207 Pitlane

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:47

Guess he would win every race :cat:


No he would lap everyone twice, before the his first and only pitstop obviously.

#4208 Trust

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:49

I just wonder how quick the lotus would be in the hands of Hamilton.

With the way it seems to be so gentle on its tyres, you could imagine what Hamilton could manage by wringing its neck.

With Kimi being so gentle on the tyres, I wonder what he could do in Mercedes? Imagine every race pole position and dominating in the race.

#4209 aray

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:49

Tyre to change from Silverstone onwards...

#4210 Shiroo

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:51

Ferrari is the fastest car this year. Alonso made a mistake in Malaysia, DRS in Bahrain and in Australia he lost a lot of time in train(though Lotus was surely best car there). So Lotus seems to be most times second best and sometimes third best when RB upps their form.

I doubt about RBR. Actually they look good when they starts ahead and can run away early. When they are in the pack they don't look that good. I still believe that we had better car than RBR in Bahrain as well but we were too far to fight vs them

#4211 kar

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:52

With Kimi being so gentle on the tyres, I wonder what he could do in Mercedes? Imagine every race pole position and dominating in the race.


That is a fair comment too. Though watching Rosberg who is quite an intelligent driver fall back, I don't think Raikkonen would fare as well in a Merc as he is in the Lotus.

#4212 Shiroo

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:55

That is a fair comment too. Though watching Rosberg who is quite an intelligent driver fall back, I don't think Raikkonen would fare as well in a Merc as he is in the Lotus.

it is the car that is ultra gentle on tyres. Even gentle driving style won't help much, if you car simply MUNCH on your tyres
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#4213 swerved

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:56

With Kimi being so gentle on the tyres, I wonder what he could do in Mercedes? Imagine every race pole position and dominating in the race.



:up: Kimi would probably do very well in a Merc, I'm still glad he's in the Lotus though :D


Nice to see Stefano talking to Ferrari's last WDC in the cool down room, even if Kimi did let a swear word slip :lol:

#4214 Raikkonen94

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:58

Tom Clarkson, BBC pit-lane reporter

"As Kimi Raikkonen overtook Vettel there was some cheering from the [McLaren] mechanics. There's clearly some affection for their former driver."

Great to see that Kimi is still very popular among the McLaren mechanics. :)

#4215 SRK

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:59

A little frustrating afternoon... wrong start, wrong strategy and Gro breakdown. Fonz was within range and ofcourse many more points, but P2 is better than nothing. I wish better luck in Monaco.

#4216 RaikkonenZn

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:00

I just wonder how quick the lotus would be in the hands of Hamilton.

With the way it seems to be so gentle on its tyres, you could imagine what Hamilton could manage by wringing its neck.


Kimi is as quick as him so I'm not sure what you're on about. Hamilton might have the edge in quali but Raikkonens race performances have been as good as anybody else out there for the last season and this first 5 races.

I'm not sure how much Kimi has to do to show that he is one of the frikking best out there. How many consecutive points finish is it again? :wave:

#4217 rko281

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:01

Guess he would win every race :cat:

:lol:
as usual, sore grapes for some fan who can not see other driver qualities when he's doing a great job, it's only the car :stoned:
To the poster above that implied that Hamilton would have/could have in the Lotus .... think about the fact that Kimi' results are a combination of Lotus being good at tyre management and Kimi adjusting his driving style to optimize this quality (just as Alonso does it).
So, first compare Ham with his team mate and then come an imply that he would do a better job in the Lotus. You don't know if he would do it better! Just as I might imply that Ham driving would neutralize the Lotus advantage of being gentle on the tires and destroy them sooner. I can say it, but no way I can be sure of it.
I don't have anything against Hamilton, but let's give credit when credit it's due!




#4218 Shiroo

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:04

A little frustrating afternoon... wrong start, wrong strategy and Gro breakdown. Fonz was within range and ofcourse many more points, but P2 is better than nothing. I wish better luck in Monaco.

strategy? it was fastest startegy, even Pirelli admited that. simply, not enough raw pace compared to Ferrari and was too long behind mobile chicanes called Mercedes

#4219 Opaque

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:06

I just wonder how quick the lotus would be in the hands of Hamilton.

With the way it seems to be so gentle on its tyres, you could imagine what Hamilton could manage by wringing its neck.


Good point. In Malaysia Kimi finished 8th because he couldn't heat up the tires. If it was Hamilton in the Lotus he might have been on the podium and thus leading the championship right now.

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#4220 Massa

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:07

The day where track position was king is over. Now, with this tyres, a pit stop on a track like this is nothing, it's much better to push the tyres to do quali stint, you loose less time than nursing the tyres with others drivers overtake you.

The one stop less is not always a good strategy, for Lotus only it can work because the car is so good on the tyres.

#4221 Massa

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:08

Good point. In Malaysia Kimi finished 8th because he couldn't heat up the tires. If it was Hamilton in the Lotus he might have been on the podium and thus leading the championship right now.



If if if...

Without mistakes, Alonso it's one second place and two win...

#4222 swerved

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:09

Good point. In Malaysia Kimi finished 8th because he couldn't heat up the tires. If it was Hamilton in the Lotus he might have been on the podium and thus leading the championship right now.



7th.


#4223 Alburaq

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:09

Mark my words, Monaco will be a disaster. With bad qualifying pace we'll get stuck behind mercs and the rest. On race pace Ferraris are currently superior anyway.


Mark my words:
1-the E20 was slower thanthe E21 during qualifing
2-the E20 was as slow as the E21 in Barcelona's 3rd sector all the weekend, if not slower http://www.formula1....68/results.html
3-The E21 is very fast in the slow sectors and better than the E20 in that area. all previous weekends prove it (bar barcelona witch is a too radical downforce track)
4-Many here and elswehere said Monaco will be a disaster for the E20 (as well as Hungary... I think you know the results: very good pace from RG in Monaco despite the tire problem in FP3 and Qualy and 2nd place in Hungary in Qualy + a double podim in Race)


The Mercs will be a problem indeed

Edited by Alburaq, 12 May 2013 - 15:10.


#4224 George Costanza

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:09

Oh yes it very well could if he keeps this up.



Agreed. Kimi is very consistent.... And that's exactly what he needs to win the title, I think he got a excellent chance for the rest of 2013.

#4225 Pitlane

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:10

Good point. In Malaysia Kimi finished 8th because he couldn't heat up the tires. If it was Hamilton in the Lotus he might have been on the podium and thus leading the championship right now.

Omg hahahaha....

Lets disregard that him being so gentle with tires has put him in this position in he first place due to possible strategies

#4226 SpaMaster

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:10

I just wonder how quick the lotus would be in the hands of Hamilton.

With the way it seems to be so gentle on its tyres, you could imagine what Hamilton could manage by wringing its neck.

Just imagine what Raikkonen could do with those Mercedes! With the way Raikkonen is so gentle on tyres, he would be the saviour of Mercedes that is falling back in races.

#4227 Gasp

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:11

Paul Hembery ‏@PaulHembery 1m
We aim for 2-3 pit stops. Today was too many, we got it wrong, too aggressive. We will make changes, probably from Silverstone.


Bad news!

#4228 rko281

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:13

Good point. In Malaysia Kimi finished 8th because he couldn't heat up the tires. If it was Hamilton in the Lotus he might have been on the podium and thus leading the championship right now.

:cat:

I don't even know if I should point you to some quotes from Lotus that contradict your statement or to point some Hamilton's "weaknesses". But, I changed my mind because there's nothing that I can write here to make you Kimi hate go away :p You're not a Hamilton fan, just one that like to trash Kimi.

But, back to Lotus car... I think that towards of the season, the team will fall back a bit. The cars don't need the speed that Mercedes has, but the combination that Ferrari found, good speed over one lap and a killer race pace. We have now a very good race pace, but it won't be enough even with 1 stop less.


#4229 valuk

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:14

I just wonder how quick the lotus would be in the hands of Hamilton.

With the way it seems to be so gentle on its tyres, you could imagine what Hamilton could manage by wringing its neck.


I guess still slower than in the hands of Rosberg :rolleyes:

#4230 Vesuvius

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:16

Good point. In Malaysia Kimi finished 8th because he couldn't heat up the tires. If it was Hamilton in the Lotus he might have been on the podium and thus leading the championship right now.


Malaysia was spoiled by bad setup change, broken nosecone and grid penalty...not because of tyre heating problems.

#4231 SpaMaster

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:18

Good point. In Malaysia Kimi finished 8th because he couldn't heat up the tires. If it was Hamilton in the Lotus he might have been on the podium and thus leading the championship right now.

In Australia, Kimi finished 1st because he was sooooo gentle on tyres. If it was Kimi in Mercedes, he would be leading the championship right now. If Kimi was in Ferrari, he would have won the championship now and come back after going around the world by the time they complete a GP lap! :stoned:

#4232 SpaMaster

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:19

Malaysia was spoiled by bad setup change, broken nosecone and grid penalty...not because of tyre heating problems.

Your reasoning and all would have zero effect on him.

#4233 Vesuvius

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:20

Paul Hembery ‏@PaulHembery 1m
We aim for 2-3 pit stops. Today was too many, we got it wrong, too aggressive. We will make changes, probably from Silverstone.


Bad news!


It's same for eveyone, hopefully thy don't change it too much as 3-4 stops at barcelona is 2-3 stops in many other tracks so if they do big changes it will suddenly 1-2 stops.

#4234 Jeeves

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:21

I like it :p at least it doesn't bore me :D imagine how the racing would look like, if Lotus could secure front row and just blitz the field from there :p


I just feel like there's always someone in the way. :p I know it's called racing but knowing that there could be potential for a win, it's hideously annoying to see them stuck behind slower cars while guys at front are running away.

Oh yes it very well could if he keeps this up.


You mean a record of 17 consecutive 2nd places? Imagine the podium interviews later on in the season. :lol:

#4235 Opaque

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:22

Malaysia was spoiled by bad setup change, broken nosecone and grid penalty...not because of tyre heating problems.

And who changed the setup? Who broke the nosecone? Who impeded Nico Rosberg? You are making my argument basically.

Edited by Opaque, 12 May 2013 - 15:27.


#4236 Pitlane

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:28

And who changed the setup? Who broke the nosecone? Who impeded Nico Rosberg? You are making my argument basically.

Edit: How many more posts before I get the second star?


Thing is, you dont have an argument in the first place. Everyone sees what you are doing, and are only replying because we are in the mood to do so after a great result today. Knowing it bugs the hell out of you :)

Edited by Pitlane, 12 May 2013 - 15:28.


#4237 santababy

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:35

P2!!! :up:
Great race by Kimi! :clap:
Good points for Lotus!

Btw what happen to Grogro?

#4238 Viryfan

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:38

P2!!! :up:
Great race by Kimi! :clap:
Good points for Lotus!

Btw what happen to Grogro?


Suspension failure.

#4239 SpaMaster

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 16:06

A bit disappointed about not getting a win. Three 2nd places on a trot is fine. But a win gives a point difference of 7 points. When you are in good form, you have to get wins. This is not like last year, the best drivers are clearly making a difference and there won't surprise winners to be content with just consistent podium. Need a win soon.

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#4240 ruby soho

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 16:14

A bit disappointed about not getting a win. Three 2nd places on a trot is fine. But a win gives a point difference of 7 points. When you are in good form, you have to get wins. This is not like last year, the best drivers are clearly making a difference and there won't surprise winners to be content with just consistent podium. Need a win soon.

Yeah.. Kimi would be in the lead, had he won :well:

#4241 Mauseri

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 16:38

I thought Kimi was losing too much time at the end of the middle stints. I would have pitted him later for the first stop. Maybe 4 stops would have been faster?

2nd is fine, and Ferrari was simply stronger today anyway. Maybe it would have been diffcult to pass Massa and Vettel with 4 stops.

Edited by Mauseri, 12 May 2013 - 16:40.


#4242 Diderlo

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 16:46

I thought Kimi was losing too much time at the end of the middle stints. I would have pitted him later for the first stop. Maybe 4 stops would have been faster?

2nd is fine, and Ferrari was simply stronger today anyway. Maybe it would have been diffcult to pass Massa and Vettel with 4 stops.


Yes, 4 stops could have been faster in clean air. The problem is that when running the same strategy as others you might lose much more time passing them (if you even get past). So I think that 3 was the right choice, because Kimi didn't need to fight as much. Pitting a lap or two earlier every time could have also worked (with 4 stops).

Edited by Diderlo, 12 May 2013 - 16:46.


#4243 Pothead4Philosopher

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 16:47

A bit disappointed about not getting a win. Three 2nd places on a trot is fine. But a win gives a point difference of 7 points. When you are in good form, you have to get wins. This is not like last year, the best drivers are clearly making a difference and there won't surprise winners to be content with just consistent podium. Need a win soon.


I do agree with you on the need of getting wins, but I cannot see how Kimi would have been able to convert any of his 2nd places to wins. The car just wasn't up to finishing 1st -- I am afraid.

Fingers crossed that Lotus can find a few tenths some place soon.

#4244 F1Champion

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 16:54

The car needs quicker qualifying pace and faster straight line speed. Kimi has to spend too much time in traffic and a couple of places behind others off the grid.

#4245 Alburaq

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 17:12

Top speed, top speed, top speed...
That's not down to top speed. The car has a good top speed. Amongst our direct opponents, only the Feraris had a better one today and in saturday...

Edited by Alburaq, 12 May 2013 - 17:12.


#4246 Shiroo

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 17:55

Top speed, top speed, top speed...
That's not down to top speed. The car has a good top speed. Amongst our direct opponents, only the Feraris had a better one today and in saturday...

True.

Barcelona is jsut shit track to overtake. Kimi had today most overtakes I believe, yet you needed to wait for them, cause finish straight has now before it retarded chicane that makes it so harder to overtake on straight than it should be

#4247 Skinnyguy

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:00

Barcelona is jsut shit track to overtake. Kimi had today most overtakes I believe, yet you needed to wait for them, cause finish straight has now before it retarded chicane that makes it so harder to overtake on straight than it should be


His passes on Vettel and Lewis were far more risky than his average attempt. He still dived down the inside of two cars defending the inside line quite heavily, uncharacteristic from him.

His pass on Vettel was messy and if Vettel had turned in on him, Kimi would have taken the heat, he really wasn´t far enough alongside to gain a car´s width of room on the inside. Anyway Vettel´s defense wasn´t smart at all, and I think he realized when the pass itself happened. He had no chance to race Räikkönen and hampered both´s race covering his attempts. Kimi was smarter when Alonso attacked him, he could have ended squabling with Massa had he started fighting Alonso and lost time.

#4248 Vesuvius

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:04

Top speed, top speed, top speed...
That's not down to top speed. The car has a good top speed. Amongst our direct opponents, only the Feraris had a better one today and in saturday...


It has indeed never been about top speed, it's traction out of the corners that Lotus is not so good at, althought they are better on that atra than last year.

#4249 Shiroo

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:23

It has indeed never been about top speed, it's traction out of the corners that Lotus is not so good at, althought they are better on that atra than last year.

actually, from what I can this year, we have really good traction this year. Barcelona is about that last retarded chicane mostly, even with insane traction you still would lag a bit behind. Still we didn't lose much there even while being 0.4sec behind or so. And our coanda exhaust is better for slow corners afaik.

#4250 SpaMaster

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:30

I do agree with you on the need of getting wins, but I cannot see how Kimi would have been able to convert any of his 2nd places to wins. The car just wasn't up to finishing 1st -- I am afraid.

Fingers crossed that Lotus can find a few tenths some place soon.

Yes, that's what I meant. I was disappointed because the winners keep changing, but Kimi constantly comes second. May be it is a good thing, may be it is not. When other teams' fortunes so drastically from one weekend to the other, I expected Lotus to sneak a win here and there. It is the nature of the car. They had great race pace today and they did their best in qualy also. But somehow Ferrari was a wee bit faster. May be the too many pit-stops and much faster degrading tyres negated Lotus' advantage a bit. Converting 3-stoppers to 2-stoppers may be much more advantageous for them. Anyway, they need to find a bit more pace. They are almost there. But if they keep developing the car, things could change very soon.