Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 17 votes

Lotus E21


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
4314 replies to this topic

#4251 SpaMaster

SpaMaster
  • Member

  • 5,856 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:32

It has indeed never been about top speed, it's traction out of the corners that Lotus is not so good at, althought they are better on that atra than last year.

Yes, that's what Kimi said in PC. That, Red Bull shot away from him everytime at the final corner entering the starit-finish straight.

Advertisement

#4252 Raikkonen94

Raikkonen94
  • Member

  • 444 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:35

And this is Kimi's 22 consecutive points finish, just two shy of all time recordholder Schumacher with 24. Would be great if "Mr. Consistency" (I like that nickname given by David Coulthard :p) could break that record.

#4253 toroRosso

toroRosso
  • Member

  • 272 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:36

Monaco and Canada were bad for Kimi last year so I'd be expecting decent point finishes rather than wins atm.

#4254 SRK

SRK
  • Member

  • 176 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:36

strategy? it was fastest startegy, even Pirelli admited that. simply, not enough raw pace compared to Ferrari and was too long behind mobile chicanes called Mercedes


Pirelli was wrong. 3 stops with med (used), med (used), med (used) and hard strategy wasn't enought. Kimi lost ages on dead tires and raw pace was there.

Edited by SRK, 12 May 2013 - 18:37.


#4255 Torsion

Torsion
  • Member

  • 625 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:37

Yes, that's what Kimi said in PC. That, Red Bull shot away from him everytime at the final corner entering the starit-finish straight.


If we are considering Monaco, traction is important, and I think we may lack a bit in that area, but not significantly. In Monaco you also need a soft sprung car to ride the kerbs, and I think Lotus is one of the best in that area. We should be fighting for a podium I think. Mercedes may however surprise everyone.

Edited by Torsion, 12 May 2013 - 18:39.


#4256 Vesuvius

Vesuvius
  • Member

  • 5,075 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:39

And this is Kimi's 22 consecutive points finish, just two shy of all time recordholder Schumacher with 24. Would be great if "Mr. Consistency" (I like that nickname given by David Coulthard :p) could break that record.


And Kimi shares the record 33 finished races in a row with Heidfeld, Nick however has the record of 41 classifications in a row.

#4257 2ms

2ms
  • Member

  • 2,212 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:42

With the performance of Ferrari/Pirelli F138, I feel the season is basically over. Hard to care too much about E21 now. Looks like going to be a 3-way race for 2nd between Massa, Kimi, Vettel. But who cares about 2nd? Hard to imagine how gutted all the other non-Ferrari drivers must feel when they happen to not be as unusually light on tires as Kimi.

#4258 Diderlo

Diderlo
  • Member

  • 170 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:42

Monaco and Canada were bad for Kimi last year so I'd be expecting decent point finishes rather than wins atm.


Wasn't there something broken in Kimi's car in Canada? Hopefully both races are stronger than last year.

#4259 Cyanide

Cyanide
  • Member

  • 1,700 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:42

There was no point fighting Alonso today.

It was important to finish ahead of Vettel though, which was all we could ask for and more. I'm not very confident about Monaco at all, but I hope they'll prove me wrong.

Advertisement

#4260 Vesuvius

Vesuvius
  • Member

  • 5,075 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:44

Wasn't there something broken in Kimi's car in Canada? Hopefully both races are stronger than last year.


Differential problem that caused 0,5 seconds/lap.

#4261 Shiroo

Shiroo
  • Member

  • 3,513 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:45

With the performance of Ferrari/Pirelli F138, I feel the season is basically over. Hard to care too much about E21 now. Looks like going to be a 3-way race for 2nd between Massa, Kimi, Vettel. But who cares about 2nd? Hard to imagine how gutted all the other non-Ferrari drivers must feel when they happen to not be as unusually light on tires as Kimi.

we have better performance ont yres though. Ferrari has more raw pace, but not that much more than 2011 RBRs had. I still beleive that we can fight vs them.

#4262 Diderlo

Diderlo
  • Member

  • 170 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:45

With the performance of Ferrari/Pirelli F138, I feel the season is basically over. Hard to care too much about E21 now. Looks like going to be a 3-way race for 2nd between Massa, Kimi, Vettel. But who cares about 2nd? Hard to imagine how gutted all the other non-Ferrari drivers must feel when they happen to not be as unusually light on tires as Kimi.


5 out of 19 races done. Let's just stay calm.

#4263 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 3,868 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:48

With the performance of Ferrari/Pirelli F138, I feel the season is basically over. Hard to care too much about E21 now. Looks like going to be a 3-way race for 2nd between Massa, Kimi, Vettel. But who cares about 2nd? Hard to imagine how gutted all the other non-Ferrari drivers must feel when they happen to not be as unusually light on tires as Kimi.


Calm down. True, now Lotus is trailing but that might change. And even now it´s close enough to be able to beat them depending on how things look after lap 1. Also when things are this close, a mistake here and there might be more decisive than anything else.

#4264 Pothead4Philosopher

Pothead4Philosopher
  • Member

  • 532 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:48

Isn't it soft and super-soft combo for Monaco?

Could bring the best of the cars ability to be gentle with tires. Top 4-5 in qualy and we have a chance of a good end result.

#4265 Vesuvius

Vesuvius
  • Member

  • 5,075 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:49

we have better performance ont yres though. Ferrari has more raw pace, but not that much more than 2011 RBRs had. I still beleive that we can fight vs them.


Tyre advantage will be lost from silverstone onwards now that Pirelli will almost certainly change structures of all compounds.

#4266 SpaMaster

SpaMaster
  • Member

  • 5,856 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:54

^ No, that would be over-reaction based on one out of the five races so far this season. My guess is if at all they would just change the durability of hards, that's all. No need to change other tyres. Whichever track they suspect may be hard on tyres, they will throw in hards. Other races should be manageable with other compounds. Lotus could still run softer tyres even then like they did today. So, I don't think the proposed Silverstone change would have any bearing on Lotus or overall F1 pecking order for that matter. I kept saying Barcelona is the harshest track for tyres. It is still 1 out of 5 races. So nothing much will change in reality.

#4267 Massa

Massa
  • Member

  • 3,857 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:54

It has indeed never been about top speed, it's traction out of the corners that Lotus is not so good at, althought they are better on that atra than last year.



I don't think Lotus is weak on traction, it's just that Mercedes have a massive traction.

#4268 Pothead4Philosopher

Pothead4Philosopher
  • Member

  • 532 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 12 May 2013 - 18:57

Tyre advantage will be lost from silverstone onwards now that Pirelli will almost certainly change structures of all compounds.


Maybe not all of the advantage. Lotus will still be more gentle with the tires vs others. Will help them bang a couple of fast laps longer (that others) with the same tires. At least that is my take on it.

... and I hope to be right for once...;-)

#4269 2ms

2ms
  • Member

  • 2,212 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 12 May 2013 - 19:00

Calm down. True, now Lotus is trailing but that might change. And even now it´s close enough to be able to beat them depending on how things look after lap 1. Also when things are this close, a mistake here and there might be more decisive than anything else.


It's how it's been all season, it just went unnoticed by many apparently because of Alonso's shunt and DRS failure. The P138 is the most dominant car I've seen except maybe '11 or '04. Will take an incredible amount of bad luck to offset whatever is going on with Ferrari's miraculous pace on the new Pirellis.

Things aren't close at all. Mistake here and there won't make any difference. The Ferrari was 40 seconds faster than Red Bull CRUISING most of the race. Kimi will be lucky to fight for 2nd with the Red Bull.

Edited by 2ms, 12 May 2013 - 19:01.


#4270 Vesuvius

Vesuvius
  • Member

  • 5,075 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 12 May 2013 - 19:03

Maybe not all of the advantage. Lotus will still be more gentle with the tires vs others. Will help them bang a couple of fast laps longer (that others) with the same tires. At least that is my take on it.

... and I hope to be right for once...;-)


With current racing, going longer with same amount of stops is actually slower way...undercut as we saw from both Ferraries today is the best strategy...but there are exceptions and sometimes it can be other way around too but usually not.Also if tyres will go for harder compound than Kimi's qualifying performances will drop as he can't get enough heat to the tyres.

#4271 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 3,868 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 12 May 2013 - 19:04

It's how it's been all season, it just went unnoticed by many apparently because of Alonso's shunt and DRS failure.



Agree.

The P138 is the most dominant car I've seen except maybe '11 or '04. Will take an incredible amount of bad luck to offset whatever is going on with Ferrari's miraculous pace on the new Pirellis.


Don´t agree. Lotus can beat them if things go well for them and bad for Ferrari in race day with traffic. Sort of Australia scenario. These cars you mention could win anyway.

Things aren't close at all. Mistake here and there won't make any difference. The Ferrari was 40 seconds faster than Red Bull CRUISING most of the race. Kimi will be lucky to fight for 2nd with the Red Bull.


That´s if things keep like this. Things might change or might not.

#4272 2ms

2ms
  • Member

  • 2,212 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 12 May 2013 - 19:04

Tyre advantage will be lost from silverstone onwards now that Pirelli will almost certainly change structures of all compounds.


Pirelli have been saying they're going to improve for larger part of 3 years now. Instead, it's just been Ferrari improving and everyone else scratching their heads. No way that Pirelli is suddenly going to become good now. They get worse and worse (for everyone except Ferrari) all the time, not better.

#4273 SRK

SRK
  • Member

  • 176 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 12 May 2013 - 19:10

Agree.



Don´t agree. Lotus can beat them if things go well for them and bad for Ferrari in race day with traffic.


Lotus can beat them if things go well for them and for Ferrari too. F138 is nothing special.

#4274 Cyanide

Cyanide
  • Member

  • 1,700 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 12 May 2013 - 19:14

It's how it's been all season, it just went unnoticed by many apparently because of Alonso's shunt and DRS failure. The P138 is the most dominant car I've seen except maybe '11 or '04. Will take an incredible amount of bad luck to offset whatever is going on with Ferrari's miraculous pace on the new Pirellis.


I don't know what kind of dominance you are seeing, honestly. It was just one race and if you look at one race only, we could've said in Australia that Lotus was the most dominant car and in Bahrain the Red Bull was the most dominant. It changes from race to race.


#4275 Vesuvius

Vesuvius
  • Member

  • 5,075 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 12 May 2013 - 19:19

Pirelli have been saying they're going to improve for larger part of 3 years now. Instead, it's just been Ferrari improving and everyone else scratching their heads. No way that Pirelli is suddenly going to become good now. They get worse and worse (for everyone except Ferrari) all the time, not better.


Softer tyres and hotter weather and it will be Lotus that wins...it's close but currently Ferrari has the best package althought Red Bull still has the best car but are having difficulties with tyres (for now)

#4276 Jovanotti

Jovanotti
  • Member

  • 2,261 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 12 May 2013 - 19:28

Keep your heads up guys (can't believe I'm actually saying this after scoring the third P2 in a row and being only 4 points from P1 in the WDC after 5 races...). The Ferrari is the best car atm, no doubt, but remember the margin Vettel had just one race ago? I believe not even Alonso could have challenged him in Bahrain, and now, bam, one race later he has no chance whatsoever. Things are changing quickly, and Kimi/Lotus being the only constant is a very encouraging sign. Keep in mind that the second Ferrari was no threat at all today.

The E21 not only has a tyre management advantage, but genuine pace. Over the long-run, Lotus just needs to find that little bit of extra speed and Kimi will be fighting at the top 'til the end. I disagree Lotus couldn't match the big teams development pace last year, they temporarily fell back a bit because they focused on their device a bit too much, but they won the 17th race of the season ffs.
I'm not expecting wonders for Monaco, but it should be better than last year (they didn't even have the Coandã on back then).

Edit: just read the post-race interview of the top 3, massive lol at Alonso for saying that they still don't have the fastest package and that they knew Kimi was going to be the fastest on race pace.

Edited by Jovanotti, 12 May 2013 - 19:39.


#4277 Vesuvius

Vesuvius
  • Member

  • 5,075 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 12 May 2013 - 19:36

People should have more faith on Kimi doing well at monaco...he was awesome there with mp4-21 and f60 that neither were winning cars, if they wont screw the first practises like last season then Kimi should be able to fight for win/podium. It won't be easy as it will be close and even McLaren should be strong there like they always had been even with bad cars.

#4278 2ms

2ms
  • Member

  • 2,212 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 12 May 2013 - 19:41

Softer tyres and hotter weather and it will be Lotus that wins...it's close but currently Ferrari has the best package althought Red Bull still has the best car but are having difficulties with tyres (for now)


The P138 has alway been the best car. Lotus might get the occasional win, but it sits very precariously on an incredibly narrow setup window and will never have the consistency to compete for championship. Will be interesting to see if Kimi can keep the heat on Red Bull. But Ferrari isn't even going to be breaking a sweat this season. When they aren't easily winning it'll be because they're cruising and/or using a lot of conservative strategy. Not saying that's wrong or anything (although it would be wrong of course if they've got something going on with Pirelli, depending on how seriously you take F1 as a sport vs entertain e.g. pro wrestling vs amateur wrestling). Just disagreeing with your assessment of the order.

Edited by 2ms, 12 May 2013 - 19:43.


#4279 ArkZ

ArkZ
  • Member

  • 511 posts
  • Joined: June 12

Posted 12 May 2013 - 19:47

Mark my words:
1-the E20 was slower thanthe E21 during qualifing
2-the E20 was as slow as the E21 in Barcelona's 3rd sector all the weekend, if not slower http://www.formula1....68/results.html
3-The E21 is very fast in the slow sectors and better than the E20 in that area. all previous weekends prove it (bar barcelona witch is a too radical downforce track)
4-Many here and elswehere said Monaco will be a disaster for the E20 (as well as Hungary... I think you know the results: very good pace from RG in Monaco despite the tire problem in FP3 and Qualy and 2nd place in Hungary in Qualy + a double podim in Race)


The Mercs will be a problem indeed



The 3rd sector in Barcelona shows your car has good traction ,but it not means you are already in pole in Monaco. Look at Q results from Spanish GP from 2012
3rd Sector:
1. Pastor Maldonado Williams 28.321
2. Lewis Hamilton McLaren 28.340
3. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 28.430
and now Monaco Q:
4th Lewis Hamilton
6th Fernando Alonso
9th Pastor Maldonado
The cars that usually are fast in Monaco should be also this year, unless you changed completely car philosophy.
Mercedes then Redbull are favorites for Pole. Ferrari then Lotus should be in 2nd tier. But still anything can happen, the package for Monaco is very different from normal circuits.

Edit: up. what P138 ????

Edited by ArkZ, 12 May 2013 - 19:54.


Advertisement

#4280 Vesuvius

Vesuvius
  • Member

  • 5,075 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 12 May 2013 - 19:55

The P138 has alway been the best car. Lotus might get the occasional win, but it sits very precariously on an incredibly narrow setup window and will never have the consistency to compete for championship. Will be interesting to see if Kimi can keep the heat on Red Bull. But Ferrari isn't even going to be breaking a sweat this season. When they aren't easily winning it'll be because they're cruising and/or using a lot of conservative strategy. Not saying that's wrong or anything (although it would be wrong of course if they've got something going on with Pirelli, depending on how seriously you take F1 as a sport vs entertain e.g. pro wrestling vs amateur wrestling). Just disagreeing with your assessment of the order.


Red bull is still the best but it's masked by them not getting tyres to last in their car, once they do they will win.Ferrari and Lotus are the best packages to have for now.

#4281 Menace

Menace
  • Member

  • 11,983 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 12 May 2013 - 19:58

Great race by the team and Kimi, no way should Kimi be ahead of either of the Ferrari's at the end of this race, so kudos to the team.

:up:

#4282 swerved

swerved
  • Member

  • 3,497 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 12 May 2013 - 19:59

Keep your heads up guys (can't believe I'm actually saying this after scoring the third P2 in a row and being only 4 points from P1 in the WDC after 5 races...). The Ferrari is the best car atm, no doubt, but remember the margin Vettel had just one race ago? I believe not even Alonso could have challenged him in Bahrain, and now, bam, one race later he has no chance whatsoever. Things are changing quickly, and Kimi/Lotus being the only constant is a very encouraging sign. Keep in mind that the second Ferrari was no threat at all today.

The E21 not only has a tyre management advantage, but genuine pace. Over the long-run, Lotus just needs to find that little bit of extra speed and Kimi will be fighting at the top 'til the end. I disagree Lotus couldn't match the big teams development pace last year, they temporarily fell back a bit because they focused on their device a bit too much, but they won the 17th race of the season ffs.
I'm not expecting wonders for Monaco, but it should be better than last year (they didn't even have the Coandã on back then).

Edit: just read the post-race interview of the top 3, massive lol at Alonso for saying that they still don't have the fastest package and that they knew Kimi was going to be the fastest on race pace.



:clap: Agree with all of it, especially the edit, the Ferrari was far and away the quickest car today, but on to Lotus, I have to say the doom and gloom mongers are almost as amusing as they eternal optimists, a win would have been great today, but against that Ferrari it was near impossible, and 2nd is the next best thing, Lotus have dropped points and a position in the WCC, but by virtue of a mechanical failure, a failure that fate dictated happened to Romains car and not Kimi's, Kimi closed the gap to Vettel, yes sure a win would have given him the lead, but Romains suspension would have cost him 18 points.

There is much to be positive about, the car is good, not the best but that can be improved upon, the strategies are getting better, and Kimi is still providing a consistency of performance that quite possibly many teams and drivers might rightfully be envious of, a consistency that surely must spur the team on and encourage them to give absolutely everything, all of the time, as for the development race well Lotus may well just be able to keep up, we dont know yet, but we shouldn't condemn Lotus at all until we do know.

Lotus are doing a very very good job with limited resources, and we're 5 races in, we should at least give them every chance and every encouragement.


#4283 hello86

hello86
  • Member

  • 3,607 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 12 May 2013 - 20:04

:clap: Agree with all of it, especially the edit, the Ferrari was far and away the quickest car today, but on to Lotus, I have to say the doom and gloom mongers are almost as amusing as they eternal optimists, a win would have been great today, but against that Ferrari it was near impossible, and 2nd is the next best thing, Lotus have dropped points and a position in the WCC, but by virtue of a mechanical failure, a failure that fate dictated happened to Romains car and not Kimi's, Kimi closed the gap to Vettel, yes sure a win would have given him the lead, but Romains suspension would have cost him 18 points.

There is much to be positive about, the car is good, not the best but that can be improved upon, the strategies are getting better, and Kimi is still providing a consistency of performance that quite possibly many teams and drivers might rightfully be envious of, a consistency that surely must spur the team on and encourage them to give absolutely everything, all of the time, as for the development race well Lotus may well just be able to keep up, we dont know yet, but we shouldn't condemn Lotus at all until we do know.

Lotus are doing a very very good job with limited resources, and we're 5 races in, we should at least give them every chance and every encouragement.


:up: :up: :up:

#4284 Jovanotti

Jovanotti
  • Member

  • 2,261 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 12 May 2013 - 20:24

Many analysts are still confusing Lotus' pace with their excellent tyre management. I wonder if the team will go for a more aggressive strategy, i.e. more stops, some time soon as they obviously have the speed, not just a tactical advantage.

#4285 Trust

Trust
  • Member

  • 3,064 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 12 May 2013 - 20:38

DDRS for Canada would be major boost I guess. We need something special on that car to make our championship hope really alive. We're good, but still lacking to Ferrari and RB(when they nail setup with tyres, Lotus can't come close).

#4286 Mauseri

Mauseri
  • Member

  • 7,437 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 12 May 2013 - 21:55

Yes, 4 stops could have been faster in clean air. The problem is that when running the same strategy as others you might lose much more time passing them (if you even get past). So I think that 3 was the right choice, because Kimi didn't need to fight as much. Pitting a lap or two earlier every time could have also worked (with 4 stops).

I agree. Kimi winning today would have needed more traffic for Alonso and less for Kimi. Ferrari was probably faster anyway. It's possible Kimi will win races, but it is difficult (impossible) without some sort of strategical and traffical advantage.

#4287 Mauseri

Mauseri
  • Member

  • 7,437 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 12 May 2013 - 22:12

Yes, 4 stops could have been faster in clean air. The problem is that when running the same strategy as others you might lose much more time passing them (if you even get past). So I think that 3 was the right choice, because Kimi didn't need to fight as much. Pitting a lap or two earlier every time could have also worked (with 4 stops).

I agree. Kimi winning today would have needed more traffic for Alonso and less for Kimi. Ferrari was probably faster anyway. It's possible Kimi will win races, but it is difficult (impossible) without some sort of strategical and traffical advantage.

#4288 Shiroo

Shiroo
  • Member

  • 3,513 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 12 May 2013 - 22:13

DDRS for Canada would be major boost I guess. We need something special on that car to make our championship hope really alive. We're good, but still lacking to Ferrari and RB(when they nail setup with tyres, Lotus can't come close).

actually I believe that RBR is not that good as people claim. They are hard on tyres, and dont look that good when they are in the pack and cant run away at the start of the race.

#4289 Hayden1

Hayden1
  • Member

  • 260 posts
  • Joined: November 12

Posted 12 May 2013 - 23:46

http://www.youtube.c...p;v=PTPNMuzKbf8 :)

#4290 SpaMaster

SpaMaster
  • Member

  • 5,856 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 13 May 2013 - 04:54

Keep your heads up guys (can't believe I'm actually saying this after scoring the third P2 in a row and being only 4 points from P1 in the WDC after 5 races...). The Ferrari is the best car atm, no doubt, but remember the margin Vettel had just one race ago? I believe not even Alonso could have challenged him in Bahrain, and now, bam, one race later he has no chance whatsoever. Things are changing quickly, and Kimi/Lotus being the only constant is a very encouraging sign. Keep in mind that the second Ferrari was no threat at all today.

The E21 not only has a tyre management advantage, but genuine pace. Over the long-run, Lotus just needs to find that little bit of extra speed and Kimi will be fighting at the top 'til the end. I disagree Lotus couldn't match the big teams development pace last year, they temporarily fell back a bit because they focused on their device a bit too much, but they won the 17th race of the season ffs.
I'm not expecting wonders for Monaco, but it should be better than last year (they didn't even have the Coandã on back then).

Edit: just read the post-race interview of the top 3, massive lol at Alonso for saying that they still don't have the fastest package and that they knew Kimi was going to be the fastest on race pace.

Yeah, that was tiring. He still keeps saying that does not have the fastest car. If Ferrari was not the fastest car for the last GP, which car is it then? I have said that Ferrari is not miles ahead or exceptionally best like some claim. But they have the best car if I have to pick one. But Lotus needs just a little bit of pace. Lotus is undoubtedly the best in retaining tyre pace long into the stint.

The P138 has alway been the best car. Lotus might get the occasional win, but it sits very precariously on an incredibly narrow setup window and will never have the consistency to compete for championship. Will be interesting to see if Kimi can keep the heat on Red Bull. But Ferrari isn't even going to be breaking a sweat this season. When they aren't easily winning it'll be because they're cruising and/or using a lot of conservative strategy. Not saying that's wrong or anything (although it would be wrong of course if they've got something going on with Pirelli, depending on how seriously you take F1 as a sport vs entertain e.g. pro wrestling vs amateur wrestling). Just disagreeing with your assessment of the order.

Incredibly narrow set-up window? Narrow is one thing? But incredible?

Lotus will never have the consistency to compete for championship? This when they are just 4 pts off the lead after 5 races into the season? You sir are a Voice of Reason.

You are saying Ferrari is going to dominate this season! You certainly are in an alien world.

Why do you say it won't be wrong? You already claimed Ferrari has dirty relationship with Pirelli.

Edited by SpaMaster, 13 May 2013 - 04:59.


#4291 Kingshark

Kingshark
  • Member

  • 2,497 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 13 May 2013 - 05:10

Raikkonen has one win very early in the season, and then a streak of 2nd place finishes.

Reminds me of 2003 all over.

Regardless, this car is ridiculously good on the tyres. Are you sure that Lotus are even using Pirelli, or the 2010 Bridgestone?

#4292 SpaMaster

SpaMaster
  • Member

  • 5,856 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 13 May 2013 - 05:31

Wanted to support couple of people's points. First, what Alburaq says. Lotus was not bad at Monaco pace-wise last year. Kimi's weekend was purely down to steering issues and he did no set-up work for the car, hence tyre-management and pace went for a toss. Grosjean showed good pace in practice and qualy until he crashed at the start.

Next, what Jovanatti says. Lotus is not just good at tyre-management. They have the pace as well and could go at faster lap times with more pit-stops. Kimi said yesterday also that they could have also gone for 4 stops and run faster on track, that is always an option. He said the same in Australia. The strength of the Lotus is the options it has - they could go faster with more stops or conserve tyres with less stops at competitive pace. If they had started in front row or top-3, they probably would have gone for more pit-stops. I think top-3 in qualy is not a dream any more. Things look good for Lotus. They just need to keep up the development pace and I have no reason to doubt they can't.

#4293 Raikkonen94

Raikkonen94
  • Member

  • 444 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 13 May 2013 - 06:20

Wanted to support couple of people's points. First, what Alburaq says. Lotus was not bad at Monaco pace-wise last year. Kimi's weekend was purely down to steering issues and he did no set-up work for the car, hence tyre-management and pace went for a toss. Grosjean showed good pace in practice and qualy until he crashed at the start.


Yeah gotta agree with that, in Monaco 2009 Kimi was able to get a podium with a terrible car and his dominant 2005 victory not to forget. He surely knows how to drive around there. Hopefully a troublefree weekend to work on the set-up and no steering problems anymore. But quali is everything there so hopefully Kimi will be able to pull out a China-like lap cause we won't be able to drive from 7th or 8th to the podium like Bahrain or Australia.

#4294 Vesuvius

Vesuvius
  • Member

  • 5,075 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 13 May 2013 - 06:27

Raikkonen has one win very early in the season, and then a streak of 2nd place finishes.

Reminds me of 2003 all over.

Regardless, this car is ridiculously good on the tyres. Are you sure that Lotus are even using Pirelli, or the 2010 Bridgestone?


Wouldn't mind another 2003 with different end ;)

Car is very good to tyres yes but it has been known for years that Kimi is the most gentle driver to the tyres (was seen in 2005 when there was no tyre changes and during his Ferrari years when he started flying during races)so both of them make it superior in tyre management

#4295 Torsion

Torsion
  • Member

  • 625 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:44

Many analysts are still confusing Lotus' pace with their excellent tyre management. I wonder if the team will go for a more aggressive strategy, i.e. more stops, some time soon as they obviously have the speed, not just a tactical advantage.


Personally I feel when they start the race they are open to both options. Depending how the first lap goes, if they are in traffic, they tend to do one stop less (which has been the case few times). I am sure if they find themselves close to the leader, they would do a normal strategy.



#4296 Alburaq

Alburaq
  • Member

  • 1,079 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 13 May 2013 - 09:40

I'm optimistic because, as I said before, the E21 has a big potential/margin of progression/room for improvement, probably bigger than the Ferrari and the RBR: The least have up-to-date cars; they are copying each other since 2 years and they have all the new fancy and universal aero tricks bolted on their cars and they are just fine tuning every area. The E21, on the other and, is kinda outdated. It certainly features some original aero tricks but in many other areas it's still old fashioned and lacks developement. Enstone often developped its cars that way in the past; spend money on the most important elements, go its own path and explore new pathes and then, if they have anough ressources, copy the others.
So I hope the team has anough money and Will in the second part of the season.

#4297 swerved

swerved
  • Member

  • 3,497 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:23

That should take care of Kimi's bonus for a couple of races :lol:



"The appointment of Mr Ruhan to the board was seen as a precursor to him investing in the team but Mr Lopez initially denied this, telling The Telegraph that “Genii owns 100pc of the company”.
However, he has since backtracked on this and revealed that Mr Ruhan “is not a large or a controlling shareholder in the team. He is a friend and a business partner in some substantial real estate developments, loves cars, racing and has purchased, if I am not mistaken, 2pc of the equity to be on the board and feel involved – for sure, not a substantial deal for either party.”



http://www.telegraph...s-F1-stake.html

Edited by swerved, 13 May 2013 - 10:24.


#4298 Torsion

Torsion
  • Member

  • 625 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:27

That should take care of Kimi's bonus for a couple of races :lol:



"The appointment of Mr Ruhan to the board was seen as a precursor to him investing in the team but Mr Lopez initially denied this, telling The Telegraph that “Genii owns 100pc of the company”.
However, he has since backtracked on this and revealed that Mr Ruhan “is not a large or a controlling shareholder in the team. He is a friend and a business partner in some substantial real estate developments, loves cars, racing and has purchased, if I am not mistaken, 2pc of the equity to be on the board and feel involved – for sure, not a substantial deal for either party.”



http://www.telegraph...s-F1-stake.html


So the team is valued at £50 million. Any idea how that stacks up against other teams?


#4299 swerved

swerved
  • Member

  • 3,497 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:32

So the team is valued at £50 million. Any idea how that stacks up against other teams?



Not a clue :blush: Something i've not looked into, it doesn't sound a lot does it but who knows ?



From a very quick google search, about $270M according to a list from Forbes published in 2012.

http://www.forbes.co...-valuable-team/

Edited by swerved, 13 May 2013 - 10:35.


Advertisement

#4300 boldhakka

boldhakka
  • Member

  • 2,329 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:36

I'm optimistic because, as I said before, the E21 has a big potential/margin of progression/room for improvement, probably bigger than the Ferrari and the RBR: The least have up-to-date cars; they are copying each other since 2 years and they have all the new fancy and universal aero tricks bolted on their cars and they are just fine tuning every area. The E21, on the other and, is kinda outdated. It certainly features some original aero tricks but in many other areas it's still old fashioned and lacks developement. Enstone often developped its cars that way in the past; spend money on the most important elements, go its own path and explore new pathes and then, if they have anough ressources, copy the others.
So I hope the team has anough money and Will in the second part of the season.


It's unlikely, otherwise they would have already copied the others in the previous seasons and wouldn't be behind the curve at this point. Why would this year be any different? In fact, given the rule changes in 2014, I would say its even less likely that the E21 will catch up with the leaders' solutions since Enstone will very likely start shifting resources to the next season earlier and more aggressively than Ferrari or Red Bull.