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Lotus E21


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#4301 2ms

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:37

Tthe rotten situation with the tires, whereby the sport is being manipulated to promote Ferrari winning (I don't like to say this, but let's be real) and to make it impossible for Red Bull to win, has potentially ruined Lotus' season for me. No matter what Lotus achieves now could ultimately not matter. No matter how much everyone will want to pretend the season was real and that Lotus really deserved a 2nd or 3rd or whatever they end up with in the end, deep down, everyone will feel Lotus just knew how to use the tires better than everyone except Ferrari.

Self-important idiot Boullier isn't helping things at the moment going and putting Lotus in the pro-ridiculous-tires camp the way he is. He should shut up and let the natural course of things take place. It would elevate the chances of Lotus being perceived less as the beneficiary of freak tire advantages than as a team that was more resilient or whatever at adapting to tough situation in F1. Instead, Lotus is poised to look like participant in manipulation.

Edited by 2ms, 13 May 2013 - 10:39.


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#4302 swerved

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:39

Tthe rotten situation with the tires, whereby the sport is being manipulated to promote Ferrari winning (I don't like to say this, but let's be real) and to make it impossible for Red Bull to win, has potentially ruined Lotus' season for me. No matter what Lotus achieves now could ultimately not matter. No matter how much everyone will want to pretend the season was real and that Lotus really deserved a 2nd or 3rd or whatever they end up with in the end, deep down, everyone will feel Lotus just knew how to use the tires better than everyone except Ferrari.

Self-important idiot Boullier isn't helping things at the moment going and putting Lotus in the pro-ridiculous-tires camp the way he is. He should shut up and let the natural course of things take place. It would elevate the chances of Lotus being perceived not as the serendipitous beneficiary of freak tire advantages, but rather as a team that was more resilient or whatever at adapting to tough situation in F1. Instead, Lotus is poised to look like participant in manipulation.



You're being anything but real.

#4303 Watkins74

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:42

Tthe rotten situation with the tires, whereby the sport is being manipulated to promote Ferrari winning (I don't like to say this, but let's be real) and to make it impossible for Red Bull to win, has potentially ruined Lotus' season for me. No matter what Lotus achieves now could ultimately not matter. No matter how much everyone will want to pretend the season was real and that Lotus really deserved a 2nd or 3rd or whatever they end up with in the end, deep down, everyone will feel Lotus just knew how to use the tires better than everyone except Ferrari.

Self-important idiot Boullier isn't helping things at the moment going and putting Lotus in the pro-ridiculous-tires camp the way he is. He should shut up and let the natural course of things take place. It would elevate the chances of Lotus being perceived not as the serendipitous beneficiary of freak tire advantages, but rather as a team that was more resilient or whatever at adapting to tough situation in F1. Instead, Lotus is poised to look like participant in manipulation.

The Ferrari part is laughable. :rolleyes:

What's wrong with Lotus knowing how to use the tires better? They built a great chassis to achieve this.

If you think this season isn't "real", stop watching.

#4304 2ms

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:45

What's not real? The FIA obviously wants Pirelli to make tires that make it harder for Red Bull to win. You disagree?

Hembery himself said the following yesterday about wanting to make Alonso, Kimi, and Massa happy and preventing Red Bull from winning: "So if I said we were going to make a change, I know I am going to have the podium people today not happy – then you [the media] will be here at Silverstone telling me we have given the championship to Red Bull."

#4305 2ms

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:47

Essentially, he has stated that Pirelli's goal is to manipulate F1 to make it appear to be real racing as much as possible without Red Bull winning. If you disagree then perhaps you could articulate why.

If I wanted to watch professional wrestling then I'd watch professional wrestling. I wanted to watch Lotus and Kimi beat everyone with engineering ingenuity and driving skill. Instead, all the impact of those things is obscured by the fact they're beneficiaries of artificial tire situation. Even if they won, people would just say they were lucky.

Edited by 2ms, 13 May 2013 - 10:51.


#4306 Torsion

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:48

Not a clue :blush: Something i've not looked into, it doesn't sound a lot does it but who knows ?



From a very quick google search, about $270M according to a list from Forbes published in 2012.

http://www.forbes.co...-valuable-team/


Yes, certainly sounds not too much for a team of 600 personnel. As you say, who knows, may be the deal had some hidden (and possibly non-financial) components to it.

Edited by Torsion, 13 May 2013 - 10:49.


#4307 JRodrigues

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:49

Oh.

My.

God.

#4308 Torsion

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:51

Essentially, he has stated that Pirelli's goal is to manipulate F1 to make it appear to be real racing as much as possible without Red Bull winning. If you disagree then perhaps you could articulate why.

If I wanted to watch professional wrestling then I'd watch professional wrestling. I wanted to watch Lotus and Kimi beat everyone with engineering ingenuity and driving skill. Instead, they're just beneficiaries of artificial tire situation.



It is the same tyres for everyone, just don't get what is artificial about the race results?

By the way, I would consider building a fast car which is gentle on its tyres engineering ingenuity.



#4309 intelligentsia

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:14

Essentially, he has stated that Pirelli's goal is to manipulate F1 to make it appear to be real racing as much as possible without Red Bull winning. If you disagree then perhaps you could articulate why.

If I wanted to watch professional wrestling then I'd watch professional wrestling. I wanted to watch Lotus and Kimi beat everyone with engineering ingenuity and driving skill. Instead, all the impact of those things is obscured by the fact they're beneficiaries of artificial tire situation. Even if they won, people would just say they were lucky.


That is just nonsense, Red Bull has the biggest budget they have a great designer, and they had the same opportunity as every other team to test the tyres before designing their car. If they dont believe their car is competitive enough then they should strive to do a better job. F1 has always been about designing cars within the limits of the rules, some teams does a better job at this then others. If the tyres are changed now it would be very unfair to those who have done a good job from the start. Why should the teams who have done a good job be disadvantaged because others didn't do a good job and are crying about it.

But Red Bull are actually leading the WCC and WDC right now, they clearly have a good car, and they were 4th and 5th in this race clearly they are still doing pretty well. This seems to be a case of you are only as good as your last race. Everyone knew beforehand that Catalunya is very abrasive, properly the most abrasive track of the season, so it is obvious that any tyre situation will be exasperated. Next week there will be something new complain about when we experience the normal procession at Monaco.

Edited by intelligentsia, 13 May 2013 - 11:18.


#4310 Shiroo

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:34

Saying that it is unfair towards RBR makes it silly. it is like saying that Ferrari 2004 title was wrong cuz of unlimited testing, Renault 2005 and 2006 cuz of Michellin tyres, or 2011 RBR domination cause they had best EBD.
it is same for everyone, you create best chasis, that has good tyre management, they failed to do so, that's why they are butthurt, and they can't get over it so they start to whine. For me any changes to tyres now would mean that RBR is favourited.

"Because we don't like the tyres, so change the tyres [cause then we will perform better]". What a silly argument is that ?

#4311 nada12

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:19

Wanted to support couple of people's points. First, what Alburaq says. Lotus was not bad at Monaco pace-wise last year. Kimi's weekend was purely down to steering issues and he did no set-up work for the car, hence tyre-management and pace went for a toss. Grosjean showed good pace in practice and qualy until he crashed at the start.

Next, what Jovanatti says. Lotus is not just good at tyre-management. They have the pace as well and could go at faster lap times with more pit-stops. Kimi said yesterday also that they could have also gone for 4 stops and run faster on track, that is always an option. He said the same in Australia. The strength of the Lotus is the options it has - they could go faster with more stops or conserve tyres with less stops at competitive pace. If they had started in front row or top-3, they probably would have gone for more pit-stops. I think top-3 in qualy is not a dream any more. Things look good for Lotus. They just need to keep up the development pace and I have no reason to doubt they can't.

Agreed. I also woulnd't be too quick to crown the F138 just yet. We've mostly had the mediums and hards so far this season. The cars all have relative strenghts on different compounds. I wouldn't be completely surprised if Kimi looks mighty in Canada on the mediums while most of the others start shredding their rears after 10-15 laps, for instance. Not saying I expect it, just that it's not inconceivable. The Cars went up and down all of last season too, depending on the track and chosen compounds. Let's see first how the balance of power is when RB and Ferrari can't fall back on the harder tyres.  ;)

#4312 Cavani

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:28

do u really think that pirelli knew redbull 2013 car and then designed the tyres specifically to not allow them to win ? :Lol

#4313 ArkZ

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:28

Agreed. I also woulnd't be too quick to crown the F138 just yet. We've mostly had the mediums and hards so far this season. The cars all have relative strenghts on different compounds. I wouldn't be completely surprised if Kimi looks mighty in Canada on the mediums while most of the others start shredding their rears after 10-15 laps, for instance. Not saying I expect it, just that it's not inconceivable. The Cars went up and down all of last season too, depending on the track and chosen compounds. Let's see first how the balance of power is when RB and Ferrari can't fall back on the harder tyres. ;)


Well Ferrari won in China (soft/med) F138 was particularly fast on soft there ,and hards here. Lotus on the other hand was fast here on med, and won a race in Oz (ss/med).

#4314 aray

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:39

What's not real? The FIA obviously wants Pirelli to make tires that make it harder for Red Bull to win. You disagree?

Hembery himself said the following yesterday about wanting to make Alonso, Kimi, and Massa happy and preventing Red Bull from winning: "So if I said we were going to make a change, I know I am going to have the podium people today not happy – then you [the media] will be here at Silverstone telling me we have given the championship to Red Bull."


so RB getting their preferred tyre is justice but Ferrari and Lotus getting advantage is FIA orchestrated result... :stoned:

all he meant was you couldn't make everybody happy..

#4315 MightyMoose

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:48

As has correctly been drawn to our attention, this is beyond 100 pages and is now due a Part 2.

Part 2 can be found here --->>> http://forums.autosp...howtopic=185871