55 replies to this topic

[D.M.N.]

http://www.f1fanatic...-calendar-slot/

Yes please! Would love to see F1 racing around the Algarve circuit. Hopefully this comes off.

[Rob]

It's bound to be better than New Jersey.

[Massa]

This track is fantastic

[jrg19]

Should be alright to travel to for us Brits.

Edited by jrg19, 25 January 2013 - 11:57.

[Ross Stonefeld]

It's bound to be better than New Jersey.

I dunno, Jersey has a great location and a decent layout.

[Slackbladder]

Time to hint to my missus that a holiday in Portugal in July might be a good idea....

[Clatter]

Hope this comes off. This is a circuit I would love to see F1 racing at.

[wj_gibson]

How on Earth has a multi-billion dollar spoer got itself into a position whereby it can't confirm a calendar?

[Seanspeed]

Love this track. I'd normally say its not suited for F1 racing, but with DRS, it should be fine.

[RedBaron]

Time to hint to my missus that a holiday in Portugal in July might be a good idea....

This.

[blackhand2010]

Hmmmm, the circuit owners are having financial issues, and Portugal itself isn't too financially healthy...
Fairly obvious bargaining tool that Bernie is using to put pressure on the Germans.

I could be wrong though...

[Clatter]

How on Earth has a multi-billion dollar spoer got itself into a position whereby it can't confirm a calendar?

Or how many teams there will be.

[krapmeister]

Yeah Portugal's got loads of cash - lock it in...

[Richard T]

Yeah Portugal's got loads of cash - lock it in...

Exactly my thought...

[H2H]

Time to hint to my missus that a holiday in Portugal in July might be a good idea....

Much better then to explain why one should make a holiday around good old Milano.

[jonpollak]

I dunno, Jersey has a great location and a decent layout.

yeah..you're just saying that cuz you had a place to stay.

Unfortunately..it ain't gonna happen.
(the race in Portugal..not you sleeping on CeCe's floor)

Jp

[noikeee]

The track is brilliant and I'd like to see Portugal back on the calendar but there's 0% chance of this happening. The circuit is broke and the nation is broke.

And if it does happen I bloody well hope the government doesn't pay a cent for it. Not when I see everyone my age, educated or not, having to leave the country for a living. Though it'd still be a better investment than the 4 millions they gave to Ocean Racing for racing in GP2 (???!!!), or sponsoring Tiago Monteiro at the back of the F1 grid for 2 seasons in order to promote the "Tourism of Portugal".

Edited by noikeee, 25 January 2013 - 13:40.

[UPRC]

EXCELLENT news!

I've been in love with this track since it was completed. It would be so refreshing to see a new addition to the calendar that ISN'T designed by Tilke, and the track itself has a design that instantly screams "CLASSIC!" when you look at it. I really hope this track making it into F1 becomes a reality.

[Red17]

This appeared sometime ago on portuguese AS but was discredited.

As for the money itself... the country was already broke when it decided to build the stadiums for the Euro 2004. It was already forking heavy money from government coffers (by Bernie's demand) back in the 1990's to host the race. And I will not mention how much money the broke football clubs are spending each year.

The point is, if Bernie is serious about giving the slot, the money will appear, just DONT ask where it came from ;)

I woul love to see the cars again in person, even if I was spoiled by beauties of the 80's and 90's.

Edited by Red17, 25 January 2013 - 13:52.

[TheUltimateWorrier]

The track is brilliant and I'd like to see Portugal back on the calendar but there's 0% chance of this happening. The circuit is broke and the nation is broke.

And if it does happen I bloody well hope the government doesn't pay a cent for it. Not when I see everyone my age, educated or not, having to leave the country for a living. Though it'd still be a better investment than the 4 millions they gave to Ocean Racing for racing in GP2 (???!!!), or sponsoring Tiago Monteiro at the back of the F1 grid for 2 seasons in order to promote the "Tourism of Portugal".

I'm adding 2 + 2 and coming up with 22 as usual, but if Da Costa is the next big thing I wonder if Red Bull would foot the bill of a Portuguese GP so the lad has a 'home' race when he makes it to Formula 1 (assuming he will). It's interesting he's talking to the Austrian press too, perhaps a nudge and a wink to Red Bull from Bernie .

Edited by TheUltimateWorrier, 25 January 2013 - 13:58.

[Morbus]

I don't think there's going to be a 20th race, but if there is, it's not Portugal. Not because it isn't an awesome track and not because there's no money. For Portugal an event like an F1 race in the middle of summer in Algarve would be worth hundreds of millions, would more than cover for the 40 million the state would have to pay. After all, let's not forget we had the Euro 8 years ago and spent WAY more than we would now.

The only problem is the public perception and the politicians preferring to put millions in their pockets instead of into something lucrative.

As always.

[Fastcake]

I don't think there's going to be a 20th race, but if there is, it's not Portugal. Not because it isn't an awesome track and not because there's no money. For Portugal an event like an F1 race in the middle of summer in Algarve would be worth hundreds of millions, would more than cover for the 40 million the state would have to pay. After all, let's not forget we had the Euro 8 years ago and spent WAY more than we would now.

The only problem is the public perception and the politicians preferring to put millions in their pockets instead of into something lucrative.

As always.

Does Portugal struggle to attract visitors to the Algarve in the height of summer? I suspect the economy benefit would not be as great as you think if the race is going to an already major destination. The Portuguese government could spend the money on better things at this time.

[BoschKurve]

If there is to be a 20th race this season, I suspect it will be in France. That said, with the New Jersey race hopefully on for 2014, I've been wondering if the 2014 calendar will be 19 or 20 races. Ecclestone is claiming 20 races is not really desired by the teams, 19 is preferred. Yet, if NJ goes off in 2014 then it will be back at 20 if 2013 remains at 19. Unless someone else is going to be losing a race at the end of this season.

[olliek88]

I'd like to see F1 there, i'd also like Turkey to be on the calendar but i'm definitely intrigued to see a GP at the Algarve.

[PayasYouRace]

It is an excellent circuit and I'll be there if it happens.

[the9th]

That would be almost like a 2nd venue for the Brits... like Bernie's most aware. Add to that the possibility of a Friday appearance from da Costa and we have an absolute winner. Track looks old school. Algarve needs this.

[SenhorBeef]

I would love to see this. I live in the Algarve and have driven around the track (in my fiat punto ) , it's great fun.

I find it very hard to see where the money will come from though. It could not come from any public money, as there is no public money and even if there was, it would cause riots.

[DampMongoose]

I hope it does happen... no other circuit looks like a platypus on a sledge! Been reading Roebuck's alternative calendar in the latest edition of Motorsport and it had me thinking of other places that would be fun too!

Unfortunately I think it's about as likely to happen as letting the classics run full tilt on the route I constructed for a proper lap around Bourne for the BRM anniversary

Edited by DampMongoose, 25 January 2013 - 19:43.

[AlexS]

As a Portuguese myself, freedom to anyone that wants to invest and reap the profits but not even one cent of taxpayers money - there is no such thing as public money-.

[H2H]

As a Portuguese myself, freedom to anyone that wants to invest and reap the profits but not even one cent of taxpayers money - there is no such thing as public money-.

It is certainly a bit sad to see all your fellow countrymen in his thread voicing the same opinion, for all the right, wrong reasons.

[sportingcp]

Please God, make this happen somehow!!!

[Pink Snail]

The circuit is ideal for F1. The facilities are adequate without any upgrades required by the FIA. The area is perfect for tourism/race fans and the time slot perfect. This race SHOULD happen for the sake of the man who built the circuit and needs the income. The financial input from the race would boost the business for miles around and be very welcome for the local trade. Race wise, we would have a stonker because the circuit is a real hoot, all the drivers I know rave about it. It is a no brainer for a certain little rich man to be doing a `Donington` and holding the Circuit de Algarve to rabsom so that Germany or France come up with an offer. Give the fans and the Portimao public what they want and deserve....simple!

[DutchQuicksilver]

It's staying too quiet for that 20th race really. What about ticket sales, marketing, hotels etc. We only have a couple of more months left. I'm afraid we'll end up having only 19 races and a ridiculous gap in the calendar around the summer races.

[joshb]

I'm not mad keen on the Algarve track, it has a few elevation changes and a long main straight but after that its just all corners and a bit mickey mouse. Estoril is at least as good for me

Edited by joshb, 26 January 2013 - 13:16.

[Morbus]

As a Portuguese myself, freedom to anyone that wants to invest and reap the profits but not even one cent of taxpayers money - there is no such thing as public money-.

This.

This is why it'll never happen. Portuguese people are plenty happy to spend hundreds of millions in football stadiums and luxuries for their government, and they won't complain one bit, but when it comes to F1, they don't want it.

:EDIT:
Yeah, I'm also from Portugal, I know this bunch of bigots as well as any other dude around here. It's all old women and goons and drunkards.

Edited by Morbus, 27 January 2013 - 00:20.

[rmac923]

It's staying too quiet for that 20th race really. What about ticket sales, marketing, hotels etc. We only have a couple of more months left. I'm afraid we'll end up having only 19 races and a ridiculous gap in the calendar around the summer races.

Agree. Maybe Red Bull have the resources & money to put together an Austrian GP together in 6 months. Other than that slight chance, it's too late for any other circuit.

[AlexS]

This is why it'll never happen. Portuguese people are plenty happy to spend hundreds of millions in football stadiums and luxuries for their government, and they won't complain one bit, but when it comes to F1, they don't want it.

Yeah, I'm also from Portugal, I know this bunch of bigots as well as any other dude around here. It's all old women and goons and drunkards.

You don't know me so stop. You instead seem to be like them, just for another kind of pet project.

Edited by AlexS, 27 January 2013 - 00:57.

[Morbus]

You don't know me so stop. You instead seem to be like them, just for another kind of pet project.

Sorry, didn't mean it as a personal attack. I don't know you.

[10e10]

This.

This is why it'll never happen. Portuguese people are plenty happy to spend hundreds of millions in football stadiums and luxuries for their government, and they won't complain one bit, but when it comes to F1, they don't want it.

:EDIT:
Yeah, I'm also from Portugal, I know this bunch of bigots as well as any other dude around here. It's all old women and goons and drunkards.

You don't need to be rude and talk of a country and it's people (me included) like that, because if it was today there wouldn't be a Euro and new football stadiums for the same reason there won't be a GP in Portugal, lack of money. And about the luxuries from the government people are also aware of that based on the manifestations we have everyday.

[Pink Snail]

With things getting a little personal here I would like to say I enjoyed my holiday in the Algarve and also my trip to the Portimao circuit. The people on the whole, were friendly and happy to have the visiting holiday makers in their country. There were some old people, some people may have had a few drinks but the thread here is about the area getting the spare race this year.
The circuit is fit for purpose, accommodation is plentiful and the restaurants and bars cheap in comparison to other GP venues. Portugal, indeed the Algarve, would benefit form a race providing the circuit owners do not suffer financial ruin (sponsors needed from outside the area) and the track closes down after hosting one GP.
The local people and the rest of Portugal may not be as passionate about F1 or the circuit as the general public were for Donington Park back in 2010, but this circuit deserves to be on the International Race Calendars of any series that can go there, not just the F1 circus. High profile racing and at least 5 big meetings a year would start a change around in fortunes for the whole area. The Masters Historic meetings have proved that F1, Saloon Cars, Le mans (Gp C), F2, are capable of putting a show on, so there can be no excuses like the circuit is not ready.
There is really no need to get personal with the people of Portugal and the current economic climate of the country, that is due to other reasons. The man who built the circuit and runs at heavy losses is a brave man and deserves respect from us all. He may lose everything if there is not a lifeline thrown to him - having a GP may be the line he needs to make people aware that his circuit exists. A motorsport `resort` of this kind is needed in southern Europe where the climate allows for year round action.
Personally, I hope to see this circuit succeed and the future be assured for the people who work and run Portimao, the local economy to recover and offer more than just sea, sand and sangria to us motor racing holiday makers!!! Best wishes to all in the Algarve and hope to visit again soon.

[Red17]

The only issue I see in the AIA is that they probably placed too much faith in the A1GP base, testing was always going to be difficult with direct competition from Spain.
There is also the undeniable fact that football has canibalized every other sport in recent years. As I write, there was 1 portuguese battling for the overall lead in Daytona and another leading the class, will this make the news? Nope, not even a quick note, these drivers are ghosts.
But back on topic, the AIA was built to be an international circuit, which means it's location, miles south of where most petrol heads live, is the best location. Domestically, they should have upgraded Vasco Sameiro, but I don't think the area has the same accommodation offers that the Algarve has.

Ironically, Formula 1 is the one thing that breaks the news, so if there is a real opportunity the powers that be will have a good look at it. But I don't think Bernie is that serious, unless he has smelled money from Angola... (my fellow country-men should know what I am writting about)

[noikeee]

Ironically, Formula 1 is the one thing that breaks the news, so if there is a real opportunity the powers that be will have a good look at it. But I don't think Bernie is that serious, unless he has smelled money from Angola... (my fellow country-men should know what I am writting about)

Maybe the push we need for a Portuguese GP isn't success by Felix da Costa, but the F1 backmarkers getting desperate enough to hire Ricardo Teixeira and his Sonangol money...

[jjcale]

Its interesting to look at the response from the Portugese on here when faced with prospect of public funds subsidising an F1 race/track versus the response from the Americans when COTA was proposed. Surprisingly the Portugese are more against state subsidies than the Americans - which is not what one would be led to believe by the common portrayal of both groups in the media. Clearly the current condition of the public finances in Portugal is a factor but a good proportion expressed their views on philosophical grounds. Also the Americans tended to support a subsidy for F1 on the basis that public private partnerships are a good way to go and are in the interests of taxpayers.

Well here is a vid from an american commentator which, among other things, references a study by a team from Harvard (and a Bloomberg article on the study http://www.bloomberg...s-get-cut.html) which shows:

Publicly financed stadiums for all U.S. major-league sports, including soccer, cost taxpayers about $10 billion more than forecast when accounting for the costs of land, infrastructure, operations and lost property taxes, according to a study of all 121 facilities in use during 2010 by Judith Grant Long, who teaches urban planning at Harvard University.

I remember trying to make this point to the Americans but unfortunately I did not have the facts to hand - and I certainly was not going to go look these up just to satisfy them - so they kept on on their merry... way believing that Austin/Texas could do a deal with the likes of Bernie and come out on the right side of it....

Edited by jjcale, 01 February 2013 - 13:32.

[noikeee]

Clearly the current condition of the public finances in Portugal is a factor but a good proportion expressed their views on philosophical grounds. Also the Americans tended to support a subsidy for F1 on the basis that public private partnerships are a good way to go and are in the interests of taxpayers.

A little bit of context: the previous government here in Portugal made a lot of public private partnerships which were absolutely ruinous, bordering on pure fraud, with the government always getting the short end of the stick versus private companies which were "surprisingly" always administered by pals of the folks in government.

I'm not against the idea philosophically if in the hands of competent, serious people which will not mismanage and abuse state money but sadly that's a mirage over here. Forgive us for being suspicious... I'm still waiting to know what did we gain as a nation from donating 4 million euros to a GP2 team.

Edited by noikeee, 01 February 2013 - 13:51.

[jjcale]

A little bit of context: the previous government here in Portugal made a lot of public private partnerships which were absolutely ruinous, bordering on pure fraud, with the government always getting the short end of the stick versus private companies which were "surprisingly" always administered by pals of the folks in government.

I'm not against the idea philosophically if in the hands of competent, serious people which will not mismanage and abuse state money but sadly that's a mirage over here. Forgive us for being suspicious... I'm still waiting to know what did we gain as a nation from donating 4 million euros to a GP2 team.

Well ... in my little experience this is always the case... I tell anyone who will listen (on the govt side) to stay away from these things.

Low level people working for the govt (even when not corrupt) are no match for sharp folks working in the private sector (even when not crooks)... then add in the "normal" level of corruption and these things tend to be disasters.

In fairness, the one in Texas does not seem to be so bad though ... its a relatively small subsidy and its a pretty straightforward deal... but I dont like these things.

If there is a profitable race to be done in Portugal, decent business people will be happy to finance it. We are in the lowest interest rate period of all our life times. There are trillions of $ out there looking for good rates of return ATM.... its not like the world is short of investment capital.

[Red17]

The government should stay out of this, if they tried to fund a Formula 1 race now it would probably be sold in the local media as "insane and unecessary spending", even if such event would boost the tourism industry AND get the first non tilkedrome on the shedule in years.
That is the real problem, Bernie keeps asking for government involvement, but the government is so burnt out that the idea would be shot down as soon as they aproached it, the only way for this to happen is to convince Bernie to accept the money from a private investor, but I can't see that happening.

[jav]

Being Portuguese and seeing the effect of the Euro, people have become very suspiscious of "government investment and promises". I'd love to see a race but not as much as I'd like to see the Government get the peoples affairs in order. Get on sound financial footing first, then we can talk about commiting resources (we don't currently have) on the brilliant ideas which amount to risky speculation.

[Taxi]

Portuguese GP would be nice, but please not with public money. It's the time for the privates do assume the risk. Algarve circuit would be a noce scenario and could bring some fresh air to local economy.

[Morbus]

Also the Americans tended to support a subsidy for F1 on the basis that public private partnerships are a good way to go and are in the interests of taxpayers.

Well, you can't assume everyone has the intelligence to reach such insightful foresight (excuse the jarring expression). It's not all down to choice and economical situation.

[Morbus]

Portuguese GP would be nice, but please not with public money. It's the time for the privates do assume the risk. Algarve circuit would be a noce scenario and could bring some fresh air to local economy.

What profit do you really think ANY private investor, national or foreign, would EVER see in spending tens of millions of euros to run a one off grand prix in Portugal? No one private entity holds enough power to actually profit from a GP here.

That's like saying "the state should stop paying for research on rare illnesses, it's time the private sector does it". It's completely ass backwards.

Edited by Morbus, 01 February 2013 - 22:08.