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Jaguar Mk. 2


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#1 RCH

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 23:35

I recently came across a possible source of supply of 1/43 scale Jaguar Mk. 2s which may be suitable as a basis for a range of models of the cars raced in the early '60's. After a little thought and glances at photos I could find easily it became clear that I actually know very little about the details of even the better known cars. For example, I haven't found any shots, yet, which show the interior, to what extent were interiors stripped at that time?

I think I'm familiar with the colours of the Coombs and Equipe Endevour cars but does anyone know the colour of the Atkins car? For some reason I've always thought Mike Salmon's car was metallic silver but I've no idea where I got that from. Also I always thought the Lindner car was light (white?) with a dark stripe but I've just found pictures the other way round. Anyone got any colour photos to give me a clue? Any hints and help would be gratefully received.

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#2 Ray Bell

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:25

They weren't stripped in those times at all...

And rarely had rollover protection - if ever.

You'll find plenty of photos of Bob Jane's (in colour) in the Australian Photos and Bob Jane cars threads, it deserves a mention because it was the fastest in the world.

#3 Lola5000

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:21

They weren't stripped in those times at all...

And rarely had rollover protection - if ever.

You'll find plenty of photos of Bob Jane's (in colour) in the Australian Photos and Bob Jane cars threads, it deserves a mention because it was the fastest in the world.

i was talking to well known Jaguar person of the day....made the comment by the time the Lotus Cortina and the '65 Mustang was on the local race scene,Janes engines were good for about 30 to 45 mins ,being they were that stressed or bored out chasing HP.

#4 Graham Gauld

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 07:08

I recently came across a possible source of supply of 1/43 scale Jaguar Mk. 2s which may be suitable as a basis for a range of models of the cars raced in the early '60's. After a little thought and glances at photos I could find easily it became clear that I actually know very little about the details of even the better known cars. For example, I haven't found any shots, yet, which show the interior, to what extent were interiors stripped at that time?

I think I'm familiar with the colours of the Coombs and Equipe Endevour cars but does anyone know the colour of the Atkins car? For some reason I've always thought Mike Salmon's car was metallic silver but I've no idea where I got that from. Also I always thought the Lindner car was light (white?) with a dark stripe but I've just found pictures the other way round. Anyone got any colour photos to give me a clue? Any hints and help would be gratefully received.



Mike Salmons car was ex-Ecurie Ecosse and as far as I am aware he kept it metallic blue.

#5 RCH

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:51

They weren't stripped in those times at all...

And rarely had rollover protection - if ever.

You'll find plenty of photos of Bob Jane's (in colour) in the Australian Photos and Bob Jane cars threads, it deserves a mention because it was the fastest in the world.


Hi Ray, I hadn't mentioned Bob Jane's car because I knew there was a good source of photos here. I think some of the pictures show a roll hoop which wasn't apparent on any UK car.

#6 RCH

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:53

Mike Salmons car was ex-Ecurie Ecosse and as far as I am aware he kept it metallic blue.


Ex Ecurie Ecosse, that's interesting, I'd always thought it was a former Coombs car, thanks for the information.

#7 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:02

I can't remember Ecurie Ecosse having a 3.8 Mk2 Jag?

#8 RCH

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:29

I can't remember Ecurie Ecosse having a 3.8 Mk2 Jag?


I think there was a thread here a while ago, more specifically related to the 750 Relay Races which mentioned a team of Mk. 2s including an EE owned one?

#9 Wirra

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:04

I believe these have been identified as a MK II and a MK I.

Sadly this is the only item left from my brother's vast collection of NSW 50s & 60s racing memorabilia.

I think it's Ron Hodgson and Ian or Leo Geoghegan through the Tunnel of Love at Catalina - or is Bill Pitt one of them? Fairly sure it's not David McKay but I'll leave to the experts. It was blown up from a Box Brownie snap and adorned our bedroom for years.

Posted Image


Edited by Wirra, 31 January 2013 - 22:09.


#10 Graham Gauld

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 16:58

Ex Ecurie Ecosse, that's interesting, I'd always thought it was a former Coombs car, thanks for the information.


Age related problem I was thinking about the D type and not the 3.8 Must get back to the Horlicks at 8.00 Apologies

#11 bradbury west

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 21:00

They weren't stripped in those times at all...

In simple terms ISTR it was all to do with the FIA driven regs. for saloons, tied in with specific numbers produced per annum, IIRC.
Group 1 was essentially showroom stock in all aspects.
Group 2 allowed as above but with homologated mods, eg max overbore to the limit of the original class etc, and options, so all trim remained.
Group 3 was essentially to a notional GT spec, and allowed much wider range of mods and test items. Trim could be stripped as they did not come under the rule for standard trim etc
Sports and GTs had similar guidelines, hence the prototype class in long distance racing

As ever, much of the club racing was run to their own set of regs.

There were some very big re-categorisations at the then of, IIRC, 1965 for the '66 season, groupp 6, 7, 8 & 9 coming into force. In have the info here somewhere from Autosport.

This info is for guidance only, in case we have forum members who might not be aware of things from those days.

Was that the same down at your end, Ray, in terms of regs and classes?
Roger Lund

Edited by bradbury west, 31 January 2013 - 21:02.


#12 Ray Bell

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 21:56

Our touring cars had all the interiors still until the seventies, Roger...

That great action photo of Peter's is a reminder of how things were, isn't it? I think the (red and white?) car is Hodgson's, definitely the black car is Ian Geoghegan.

Rollover protection wasn't mandated at that time, but some chose to install some, usually just a hoop over the B-pillar area.

#13 RS2000

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 22:02

The requirement for internal trim continued in Gp2 under the new 1.1.66. > Appendix J up to 1973. Then rear seats and carpets could be removed but other trim remained up to the end of that version 31.12.81. (and, like most Gp2 regs, it applied to Gp4 too).

I was only recently reminded that, under the old Appendix J that applied to 31.12.65, despite these trim restrictions, side and rear window glass could be replaced by clear plastic, even in Gp1.

#14 bradbury west

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 22:17

Ray, perhaps you can clarify something which I often thought might be a myth, but truth is often stranger than.....
The story goes that it was as a result of Janes' frequent propensity to bore-out his Jaguar engines that Jaguar decided to do the same at the factory. Any ideas?
Weren't the Geoghehans also very successful with Jaguars, esp the famous mk1 which carried stripes? ISTR a ver comprehensive history/resto/test article in Vintage Racecar a while back. I must look it out again
Roger

#15 Steve O'Brien

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 22:50

My father raced a a mk2 Coombs Jag in the mid 60's, when he come to sell it the chap who bought it seemed to know about Coombs Jags and had a look to see if it had a 1/4" steel plate behind the back seat used to stiffen the chassis, was this a common thing with Coombs Jags.

#16 RCH

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 23:49

My father raced a a mk2 Coombs Jag in the mid 60's, when he come to sell it the chap who bought it seemed to know about Coombs Jags and had a look to see if it had a 1/4" steel plate behind the back seat used to stiffen the chassis, was this a common thing with Coombs Jags.


Not heard about a steel plate but the racing shells were seam welded to stiffen them.

#17 Perruqueporte

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 20:34

I believe these have been identified as a MK II and a MK I.

What a tremendous photo. The MK1 looks to have been very stiffly sprung by comparison with the later car - the opposite of what might be expected.

Christopher Wigdor