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Van der Garde


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#1 HistoryFan

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 15:17

Interesting to see the Addax GP2 line-up at Caterham again: Pic and Van der Garde. If my memory is right that Pic was the faster driver. Especially with his 3 pole positions.

Van der Garde first tested the Spyker F1 car in 2007. Six years after his first F1 test he will make his F1 debut. Was there a driver who had to wait longer? Maldonado did his first test with MInardi in 2004 and his first race was in 2011. But more?

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#2 Jackmancer

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 15:23

vd Garde was never that fast in GP2 - but who knows. Neither was Kobayashi and vd Garde showed good pace in the practise sessions he did.

#3 jonpollak

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 15:31

And why exactly did Jp get sent the full PR blast to his inbox...?
It' aint 1999 anymore ya' know.
Jp

#4 Jackman

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 15:35

I did too, but that's probably a bit more understandable.

#5 olliek88

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 15:38

9 year$ to get from F3 to F1 $ay$ it all really...

#6 HistoryFan

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 15:45

Van der Garde first tested the Spyker F1 car in 2007. Six years after his first F1 test he will make his F1 debut. Was there a driver who had to wait longer? Maldonado did his first test with MInardi in 2004 and his first race was in 2011. But more?


McNish: first test 1990 with McLaren, 1993 with Benetton, 1995 with Lola, F1 2002 with Toyota
Firman: 1995 F1 test with McLaren, 2003 F1 with Jordan
Barbazza: 1985 F1 test with Osella, 1993 first F1 race with Minardi (dnq 1991 with AGS)


#7 EightGear

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 15:46

As a Dutchman I don't have any high hopes... Another waiste of money, I'd much rather have seen the sponsorship for Robin Frijns.

#8 olliek88

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 15:49

As a Dutchman I don't have any high hopes... Another waiste of money, I'd much rather have seen the sponsorship for Robin Frijns.


Bingo!!


#9 PatrickP

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 15:56

Incredibly mediocre driver, he never did anything worth talking about in GP2 really. 2013 is the year of the pay driver.

#10 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 15:58

You know we're talking about the back of the grid right? It's not new.

#11 HaydenFan

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 16:01

You know we're talking about the back of the grid right? It's not new.


Exactly! No matter who is in that seat, it's a battle for the best of the non-scorers. And if history has said anything, anyone who gets into the Caterham/Lotus or Marussia/Virgin seats are not moving up in F1.

#12 olliek88

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 16:01

You know we're talking about the back of the grid right? It's not new.


Of course and its a naive opinion to think talent will overcome money but it doesn't make it any less frustrating when guys like Frijns are looked over for someone like GvDG.

#13 ApexMouse

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 16:04

At least the paydrivers of today are.... reasonably good. Theres no completely hopeless cases. Heck, even Chilton looked good at times in gp2.

Sad that the far more talented FR3.5 field hasnt seen as many promotions. Bird and Bianchi should have seats. Frijns as well.

#14 HaydenFan

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 16:09

If you were a young driver, would you actually want that Caterham seat? I mean it's F1, but does barely qualifying and running seconds off pace really look that appealing? Maybe for Van der Garde and his family money, it's a culmination of the tens of millions spent trying to reach the level, but if you are looking at competing for the likes of Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, do you want to spend a year in a feeder series running at the top for another year (which Frijns is trying to do) and test for one of the better teams, or run in the back spending a lot more money. Both are gambles, but even if you never reach the top of F1, would you as a driver feel proud driving in the Caterham?

#15 Zedderick

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 16:23

If you were a young driver, would you actually want that Caterham seat? I mean it's F1, but does barely qualifying and running seconds off pace really look that appealing? Maybe for Van der Garde and his family money, it's a culmination of the tens of millions spent trying to reach the level, but if you are looking at competing for the likes of Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, do you want to spend a year in a feeder series running at the top for another year (which Frijns is trying to do) and test for one of the better teams, or run in the back spending a lot more money. Both are gambles, but even if you never reach the top of F1, would you as a driver feel proud driving in the Caterham?


The likes of Nannini, Fisichella, Trulli, Alonso and Webber were all happy to start off in a Minardi. At least GvdG should expect having at least two other cars to race against, besides his team mate.

Edited by Zedderick, 01 February 2013 - 16:30.


#16 goingthedistance

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 16:44

Well he was WSR 3.5 champion in 2008. Admittedly the field was not particularly strong that year, but it is a decent formula. He can't be that bad. Nice to have a Dutchman back in F1. Maybe he can surprise a few people.

#17 noikeee

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 16:50

To be fair both Frijns and van der Garde's biggest claim to fame is the exact same - the World Series by Renault title. It's just that Frijns has won 3 different highly rated championships in his 4 years in cars, whereas Giedo's WSR title is his only trophy in 10 years...

I'm a little shocked Giedo managed to hang on for long enough to finally do this, he basically "patiented" his way into the series. He just needed to wait for the moment the economy would be bad enough for a team to be desperate...

#18 Szoelloe

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 16:58

The likes of Nannini, Fisichella, Trulli, Alonso and Webber were all happy to start off in a Minardi. At least GvdG should expect having at least two other cars to race against, besides his team mate.


this^^
There were, and there always will be paydrivers. I would say nowadays they are even fairly decent(Or the cars are easier to cope with). There were always fan complaints about paydrivers too. So seriously nothing's new, really. If the economic environment continues to decline like it does, brace yourselves for more. Glock was dropped because he is expensive. The funniest thing is G. Minardi complaining a few days ago about pay drivers.


#19 Disgrace

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 17:55

The guy's done nothing with top level equipment in GP2 since he arrived. Expect di Grassi levels of anonymity.

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#20 BullHead

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 17:57

Well he was WSR 3.5 champion in 2008. Admittedly the field was not particularly strong that year, but it is a decent formula. He can't be that bad. Nice to have a Dutchman back in F1. Maybe he can surprise a few people.


This, I hope for. I thought he'd be here before now. His Friday runnings last year weren't too bad.

#21 Bloggsworth

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 21:27

The guy's done nothing with top level equipment in GP2 since he arrived. Expect di Grassi levels of anonymity.



Doesn't always work like that, some drivers are better in an F1 car than they were in the lower formulae. Both Hills, Denny Hulme, Alan Jones to name but 4.

#22 Amphicar

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 21:42

Doesn't always work like that, some drivers are better in an F1 car than they were in the lower formulae. Both Hills, Denny Hulme, Alan Jones to name but 4.

There were three Hills though - all World Champions but only two of them were related. Phil Hill's pre-F1 record wasn't too shabby, though he raced in sports cars rather than the lower formulae.

#23 chumma

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 21:42

Van Der Garde to Caterham...Petrov to Force India with his Russian money?

#24 Jackmancer

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 21:47

Van Der Garde to Caterham...Petrov to Force India with his Russian money?


A Russian in an Indian team with an English base :up:

#25 Zedderick

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 22:33

That was some solace for me - the notion that van der Garde got the seat because Petrov had got a better offer at Force India, but the impression I get was that it was Caterham or bust for Vitaly, so that's that, I'm afraid. :\

#26 chumma

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 23:01

That was some solace for me - the notion that van der Garde got the seat because Petrov had got a better offer at Force India, but the impression I get was that it was Caterham or bust for Vitaly, so that's that, I'm afraid. :\

For a pay driver I don't think Petrov is bad at all. If he brings the cash he can take that Force India seat, what else would they be waiting for?

#27 Jackman

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 23:04

If he had the cash, Caterham probably would have kept him on...

#28 Rosberg

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 23:08

Good luck to Van Der Garde. I hope he does well.

#29 scheivlak

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 23:10

For a pay driver I don't think Petrov is bad at all. If he brings the cash he can take that Force India seat, what else would they be waiting for?

Money from Brazil?

#30 mnmracer

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:06

If you actually saw his GP2 years, he's actually not done that bad. Not Hamilton-level, but if not for bad luck (mechanical issues, Valsecchi) he would have done a whole lot better and would have challenged Grosjean for the title in '11.

I actually applaud Caterham for not hiring a test driver with no intention of using him. van der Garde was hired as a test driver last year to show his skills, and he's impressed enough to being given this chance.

Is he a top driver? Probably not, but people here acting like he's the next Karthikeyan clearly haven't paid much attention.

Of course and its a naive opinion to think talent will overcome money but it doesn't make it any less frustrating when guys like Frijns are looked over for someone like GvDG.

Frijns was not overlooked, he got signed by Sauber...

#31 Jackmancer

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 09:20

Frijns was not overlooked, he got signed by Sauber...


Yeh - good point, I don't think Frijns is ready for F1 just yet too, but I just hope he won't waste a whole year at pitwall.

#32 olliek88

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 09:25

Frijns was not overlooked, he got signed by Sauber...


Doing what exactly? No FP outings, minimal simulator use and, as yet, no series to race in, not what he needs at this stage of his career.

#33 Rob

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:43

The funniest thing is G. Minardi complaining a few days ago about pay drivers.

Do you think Minardi really wanted to take on pay drivers? He had no choice. In his defense, he usually tried to get a decent driver for one of the seats.

#34 Nemo1965

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:59


I don't think my compatriot Van der Garde is going to cut it in F1, but you never know... He's got wins in F3, GP2, WSR... based on his cv alone he deserves a shot at F1... Looking back at the past of F1, real paydrivers usually did not want squad before F1... Remember Emil de Vilota? Riccardo Paletti? Gaston Mazzacane? I think that the new generation of paydrivers - Petrov, Maldonado are much better...

So, he got a rich father-in-law and he gets a chance in backgrid car. I don't expect him to shine but still I hope he will.

#35 dau

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:30

Do you think Minardi really wanted to take on pay drivers? He had no choice. In his defense, he usually tried to get a decent driver for one of the seats.

So which team has a choice then and still wants to take on pay drivers?

I'd also say that today's paydrivers are probably closer to Minardi's "decent" drivers than to its paydrivers.

#36 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:42

As a Dutchman I'm happy we finally have a Dutch driver again. That being said, Van der Garde isn't that talented. He's mostly know for causing collisions and is no real high flying driver. He's got some good backing from is father in law, who bought him this seat. Can't really shine in a Caterham, so this is probably just a one season experience for him.

#37 wj_gibson

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 13:15

As a Dutchman I don't have any high hopes... Another waiste of money, I'd much rather have seen the sponsorship for Robin Frijns.


Aye, it is completely absird that a no-mark like vdG winds up in a race seat when a blartantly stellar talent such as Frijns can't.

Kind of reminds a bit of the period when the likes of Olivier Grouillard spent years plugging away in F3000 for the occasional fifth, and then go on to spend several years in back-of-the-grid F1 teams acting as a mobile chicane when clearly superior talents (e.g. Andy Wallace; Tom Kristensen) went nowhere.

#38 kosmic33

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 14:29

I think he'll surprise all of you!

#39 chrisblades85

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 14:35

Back of the grid driver pays for back of the grid seat. Always been the case.

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#40 Anderis

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 14:44

I don't know what people want from him. He won WSbR and his worst position overall in GP2 was 7th. I'm afraid some people tend to treat every driver with large sponsorship backing as useless drivers, no matter how they really do.

For Frijns it is too early. He was supposed to have some problems during young driver test, he was not ready to push the car to it's limit. On the other hand, Van der Garde was usually setting respectable laps times when he had a chance to drive F1 car recently. I hope Frijns is in F1 in 2014 or 2015, but he needs to gather more experience. VdG may be not the most talented driver, but he shouldn't be a disaster, really.

#41 JeePee

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 14:45

As a Dutchman I'm happy we finally have a Dutch driver again. That being said, Van der Garde isn't that talented. He's mostly know for causing collisions and is no real high flying driver. He's got some good backing from is father in law, who bought him this seat. Can't really shine in a Caterham, so this is probably just a one season experience for him.


Mostly known for causing collisions? No. He's not. He does get involved in a lot of accidents, but I can't recall one which was his fault.

Funny that people here would rather see a Petrov or a Bianchi. Petrov didn't do any better than vd Garde in the junior series and Bianchi is the one who made vd Garde lose his GP2 title bid by crashing into him multiple times.

I'm looking forward to his starts. In almost every GP2 race he had very fast starts and gained positions. I wonder if he can do the same in F1.

Edited by JeePee, 02 February 2013 - 14:46.


#42 mnmracer

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 16:30

Doing what exactly? No FP outings, minimal simulator use and, as yet, no series to race in, not what he needs at this stage of his career.

Van der Garde didn't force Frijns to sign for Sauber. Sauber looked like the best deal at the time.
You're acting like Caterham signing Giedo van der Garde is the reason Robin Frijns is not in a race seat, which is rediculous.

#43 mnmracer

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 16:48

;I read this comment elsewhere, and I couldn't agree with it more, so I thought it worth sharing: (in Dutch, but I reckon most 'reaguurders' here are atm):

Maar we hebben het hier over een jonge man die sinds zijn 12e een droom heeft na het winnen van het Nederlands kampioenschap karten. Een droom om ooit F1 coureur te kunnen zijn. Deze droom werd concreter toen deze Nederlands kampioen ook nog eens wereldkampioen op de kart wist te worden. Daarna heeft hij door gebrek aan budget, maar op talent mogen rijden in diverse autosport klasses in subtop materiaal. Materiaal dat bij lange na niet op kon tegen het top materiaal waar anderen mee reden. Door zijn optreden wist hij zowel Renault als ook Mercedes te overtuigen van zijn talent en hem op te nemen in hun talenten programma's. Hij kreeg eindelijk de kans om het op te nemen tegen zijn concurrenten in top materiaal. Een seizoen die door pech overschaduwd werd en waar hij na een verprutste pole position bij de Masters alsnog 2e werd na een sterke race.

Toen kwam deze jongen in de situatie dat hij een leuke jonge dame ontmoet waarmee hij verkering krijgt. Deze jonge dame blijkt gezegend met een zeer vermogende vader welke zijn carrière een nieuwe boost kan en gaat geven. Deze brengt hem onder bij het WSR waar hij kampioen weet te worden in 2008. Daarna volgt een wisselvallig GP2 carrière waarbij hij in 2011 tot aan de race in België titelkandidaat was en tot Monza (de laatste race) 2e stond in het kampioenschap. Wederom die pechduivel die er voor zorgt dat hij uiteindelijk daar 5e werd in het kampioenschap.

In 2012 wordt hij (mede door zijn budget) 3e rijder bij het team van Caterham. Hij geeft een goede indruk naar het team in deze functie en wordt opgenomen en gewaardeerd binnen het F1 team. Tevens wordt hij 1e rijder bij het zelfde team in de GP2 en helpt dit team van de achterhoede naar de subtop.

Dit optreden in 2012 en mede het ruime budget (en ik vind 10 miljoen momenteel nog een redelijk bedrag wanneer ik dat afzet tegen de bedragen die Senna en Maldonado meebrengen) zorgen er voor dat deze jongen zijn droom kan en mag leven.

Wie zijn wij om deze jongen deze droom niet te gunnen. Hij heeft er lang en hard voor gewerkt om te komen waar hij nu is. Het is aan hem nu!

Afzeiken en kleineren is nu makkelijk, maar we mogen niet vergeten welke offers dit ook vraagt van deze jongens.

Als je er niets van verwacht dan is dat begrijpelijk, maar het heeft toch geen nut om deze mening zo te ventileren? Wij allemaal weten dat we er niet te veel van kunnen verwachten, dus kan het alleen maar meevallen toch?

Bekijk het van de positieve kant en bedenk en beleef de carrière van de jongen en wat het hem behalve het geld allemaal gekost heeft om dit te mogen bereiken. Al eindigt het na 1 seizoen in mineur, hij heeft het toch mooi geflikt.

Ik persoonlijk verwacht niets en ga er van uit dat het na wellicht 1 seizoen voorbij kan zijn. Maar ik vind het mooi dat deze jongen het talent heeft om een redelijke F1 carrière te kunnen hebben en dat het na een lange en moeilijke weg gelukt is dit doel te bereiken.



#44 Jedi_F1

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 17:15

Van der Garde is better then most people think... from reading stuff here.

Formula Renault 3.5 Champion
and pretty good results in GP2!

Perhaps with more money & more seats available in F1 back in 2009 .. he would have raced in F1 before 2013!

Yes I think Robin Frijns is better too,
but Van der Garde has for me earned his seat and is imo better then f.e. Max Chilton (nothing personal!).



#45 CatInTheBag

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 18:09



He didn't earn it, he got it with his in-law's money. Let's be clear. Even JS admitted it.


Likewise for Petrov last year when he booted out Trulli.

#46 Henri Greuter

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 18:39

Interesting...

A Dutch F1 driver just when RTL7 surrenders the rights for live coverage .....
And the new station only doing three races live....

VanDerGarde's Dutch sponsors really choose the right moment to "buy their boy" into F1 if it comes to benefit from TV coverage on the local TV.....


Henri

#47 olliek88

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 19:40

Van der Garde is better then most people think... from reading stuff here.

Formula Renault 3.5 Champion
and pretty good results in GP2!

Perhaps with more money & more seats available in F1 back in 2009 .. he would have raced in F1 before 2013!

Yes I think Robin Frijns is better too,
but Van der Garde has for me earned his seat and is imo better then f.e. Max Chilton (nothing personal!).


FR3.5 back then had a pretty poor grid, a long way from what it is today, and his results in GP2 showed little progression or improvement over 4 years.

To put it into perspective he started in Euro F3 the same year as Hamilton and Sutil, the year before Di Resta and Vettel, two years before Kobayashi and just to show how slow he has been at progressing he also started in the F3 Euro Series 5 years before fellow rookies Bottas & Gutierrez did.

I know, its the way F1 works but he's not fast, he's rich, don't make the mistake of thinking he's worked his way up to F1 because of his "talent".

And yes, your right, he's not the only culprit and one or two others are more reliant on their funding than he is.

#48 Rob

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 22:28

I'd also say that today's paydrivers are probably closer to Minardi's "decent" drivers than to its paydrivers.

Tell that to Fernando Alonso and Mark Webber. :)

#49 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 22:30

Webber wishes he had a pre-F1 CV as good as Maldonado :p

#50 ensign14

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 22:31

Van der Garde first tested the Spyker F1 car in 2007. Six years after his first F1 test he will make his F1 debut. Was there a driver who had to wait longer? Maldonado did his first test with MInardi in 2004 and his first race was in 2011. But more?

In WC terms, Jean-Louis Schlesser had a remarkable first two GP appearances; a DNQ in 1983, and a race debut in 1988. But he did drive in the F1 Race of Champions in 1983.

Vic Wilson did that in reverse. First GP in 1960, second would have been in 1966, but he DNS'd.