399 replies to this topic

[D.M.N.]

Please continue all discussion of all things Caterham.

2012 thread - http://forums.autosp...howtopic=157978

[Jackmancer]

I'm just wondering this;
Will they get their first points finish?

[Saturnus]

Not the line-up I wanted, but I think this reflects a plan for a major push in 2014. I fear that 2013 will be another hard season for Caterham, but hopefully they'll at least get closer to 9th than end up 11th.

Regarding the drivers I actually look forward to see Pic in the car as I think he got talent to build on. Just wish they had kept Petrov.

[Vesuvius]

I'm just wondering this;
Will they get their first points finish?

With a car that is basicly 2012 version according to Heikki and Vitaly, I seriosly doubt they will get anywhere near to the points.Also the drivers are not so good.

[Rosberg]

I suppose we have been wondering if the new teams will score points since 2010. This MIGHT be their year but I wouldn't bet anything on it just yet.

[Red17]

With a car that is basicly 2012 version according to Heikki and Vitaly, I seriosly doubt they will get anywhere near to the points.Also the drivers are not so good.

But the real question is: which 2012 version?

[g1n]

considering how in 3 years their best finish is 11th (and only once ever)...I doubt they will get any points this season either.

Edited by g1n, 02 February 2013 - 20:26.

[Kingshark]

considering how in 3 years their best finish is 11th (and only once ever)...I doubt they will get any points this season either.

That too in a lottery race.

In terms of raw pace, they still haven't closed the gap to the midfield just yet, despite doing all the talk along.

[CatInTheBag]

How much gain would they need to get 1 pt. in real pace. Will 2s be enough ?

[Vesuvius]

How much gain would they need to get 1 pt. in real pace. Will 2s be enough ?

It would make them fight in the midfieldteams but points in normal race would stil be hard to get but much more achievable. But Red Bulls,McLarens, Ferraries,Lotuses and both mercedes whould still be much quickerso in normal races they are in top 10 added with Williams, Sauber and Force India...so if Caterham would gain 3-4 seconds than for sure they would get points, with 2 seconds gain possibly too.

Sadly there will be basicly same car as last year so they will not gain anything, I'm afraid.

Edited by Vesuvius, 03 February 2013 - 08:24.

[tormave]

The only race they're in is with Marussia for the 10th place. I think Marussia will take it this year, but can't say I really care either way with Trulli, Kovalainen and Glock gone. It would make sense for both teams to not develop the 2013 cars at all but only to mod the 2012 ones to fit new regs, agree to split the 10th place prize money evenly between them and rake in as much cash as they can for pay drivers. From the looks of things this is exactly what's happened.

[David Lightman]

Can't see how anybody can be positive about them this year, about the only thing in their favour is Pic but we don't know how good he is yet.

[Nemo1965]

I wrote in another thread, and I will repeat it again: we should not be so damning about Caterham (or other new teams) not scoring points. Yes, the first 10 places get points now, while in the old days you got points only if you finished in the top six. But in the 1990's, about 12 to 14 cars finished the race. I did a quick calculation (correct me if I am wrong): that by attrition, in the 1990's, you had a chance of 15 percent to score a point just by finishing. Now adays the chance is about 1 percent...if not less...

Just take quick peek at the Brazilian Grand Prix of 1994. 12 finishers. Numbers 5 and 6 (Katayama and Wendlinger) two laps behind the leader...They qualified about two seconds slower than the pole-sitter...in Q1 Petrov and Kovalinen were about two seconds slower than Hamilton...

So what the new teams need, what Caterham needs, is Formula 1 with a bit more attrition.. I have to say that watching a Formula 1 race when 25 of the 26 cars finish is not really the ultimate test of man and machine I think it needs to be...

[Zedderick]

^^ Completely agree. I think it says something when if you compare with the 1991 season, which was near the height of the big spending on electronic aids and the dominance of McLaren and Williams, 12 teams managed a top-6 finish. In fact, every team that actually stared a race in 1991 (i.e. every team except Coloni) had at least one top 10 finish. And many of them were a darn sight slower than Caterham are (or HRT for that matter)

To play devil's advocate though, if we accept that every car this season is equally unlikely to retire from a Grand Prix, then I suppose there is greater onus on really getting ahead and developing a car quick enough to win points, and not have to rely on the misfortune of others (though I personally feel that a minnow team getting a points finish is more than a just reward for the driver not crashing or spinning, the team not messing up in the pits and the car not falling apart - in years past this was a lot more easily said than done)

At the end of the day, in this era, it is up to Caterham to develop a quick enough car to get points, because having decent drivers and a reliable car (which Caterham general has had since 2010) is simply no longer enough. However, I for one can't condemn Caterham for having not quite achieved that yet.

I saw elsewhere someone moaning about how was it that Minardi could score points and Caterham can't - well, the answer is above, but another thing to remember is that it wasn't until Minardi's 4th season that they finally got a point...;)

[Nemo1965]

I saw elsewhere someone moaning about how was it that Minardi could score points and Caterham can't - well, the answer is above, but another thing to remember is that it wasn't until Minardi's 4th season that they finally got a point...;)

The problem with todays F1 is that the chance of a small team hitting the sweetspot (in tires, in aerodynamics) is very small indeed because of the very stringent and detailed rules and the one-tire Formula we have now with Pirelli. Minardi scored their first points (late 80's) because they were chosen by Pirelli to be their comeback-team. Also because they had a good driver (Martini) and a good design team, but without their tyre advantage at some tracks, they probably would not have scored their first points...

Caterham, Marussia, HRT never had a secret advantage anywhere. Caterham had good staff, good drivers, good engineers... but F1 nowadays is not anymore about a quick and clever solution in just one part of the car (the ground effect of the Lotus 79 or like the double diffuser of Brawn in '09), but about spending a lot of effort and money over a very broad terrain... And how are you going to beat or get close to the bigger teams then?

[mechadaniel]

So what the new teams need, what Caterham needs, is Formula 1 with a bit more attrition.. I have to say that watching a Formula 1 race when 25 of the 26 cars finish is not really the ultimate test of man and machine I think it needs to be...

2014 - we are going to get used to seeing cars at the side of the road with blown engines as in the good old days:)

Caterham could pour a crap load of money and resources into the 2013 car to grab a couple of points, or concentrate on the 2014 car, and I'm happy as a fan that they are doing the right thing.

Sauber, FI, and TR HAVE to get results in 2013, and so that's what they will be concentrating on. Caterham can trundle around at the back of the field with the 2012 car with minor updates. With a reliable car compared to an underfunded Marussia in their first season with KERS, bit of luck and some chaos at the front of the grid, they could blag 10th place. And if they don't, who cares if they get to the end of the season with a well developed 2014 car.

Bottom line is, if the options are:

A) Develop the 2013 car and hope for a single point in 2013 and end up in 10th.
B) Run the 2012 car in 2013, end the season in 11th, but get 8th in 2014.

I'd go for B:)

Pic has demonstrated he can get to the end of a race with the car in one piece, that's all the team needs from it's drivers in 2013.

IMHO:)

[Red17]

Anyone serious about supporting Team Lotus/Caterham knew deep inside that it would be pretty much surviving until the 2014 regs came to effect.
The thing was, their 2012 gamble backfired, but one day they had to stop being conservative, so maybe better to have the gamble fail in 2012 than in 2014.
There was also a lot of outside noise: The Lotus Row, Staff and Equipment Shortage, Change of Leadership, Moving Facilities, Fernandes talking about head chopping...
Hopefully this year things will be quieter on the factory side, the fact they are not rushing the car into presentation and making little noise is probably a sign that better focus is in progression.

[BigCHrome]

https://twitter.com/...3614080/photo/1

Wow, the color on the new car is absolutely fantastic. Can't say I dig the nose though.

[Peat]

So, i take it that's the 2012 car with a lick of paint?

[TF110]

And here's a live look at the rear

Edited by TF110, 05 February 2013 - 08:05.

[wj_gibson]

It's last year's Mercedes, no?

[chumma]

I like that livery much better than their previous.

[onewingedangel]

No AirAsia?

[TF110]

I was thinking this year's Mercedes style exhaust bulge on the sidepods, and the shape of last year's Sauber.

[TecnoRacing]

The lighter, brighter green looks massively better...

[noikeee]

I'm not sure there's that big a change in livery but it's nice, even with the stepped nose.

[One]

No AirAsia?

It explains a lotr about their driver choice.


BTW, it looks like Ferrrai 2012. Still Red Bull was the winner. Strange.
I mean, even Red Bull looks like Ferrari 2012...

[Anonymous]

http://www.formule1....1595df828_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....11354d9ea_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....0ce563eae_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....e859a5d9b_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....99d680e50_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....9128d0ffb_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....b3ec895ba_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....d72711776_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....dcd1305fe06.jpg
http://www.formule1....dcd1305fe07.jpg
http://www.formule1....dcd1305fe04.jpg
http://www.formule1....60052321.27.jpg
http://www.formule1....60052321.71.jpg
http://www.formule1....60052322.07.jpg
http://www.formule1....60052322.41.jpg
http://www.formule1....60052322.69.jpg
http://www.formule1....60052323.03.jpg
http://www.formule1....60052323.37.jpg
http://www.formule1....60054188.28.jpg
http://www.formule1....360054188.7.jpg
http://www.formule1....60054189.08.jpg
http://www.formule1....dms1305fe18.jpg
http://www.formule1....dms1305fe19.jpg
http://www.formule1....dms1305fe20.jpg
http://www.formule1....dms1305fe25.jpg
http://www.formule1....dms1305fe26.jpg
http://www.formule1....dms1305fe28.jpg
http://www.formule1....dms1305fe31.jpg

[One]

http://www.formule1....1595df828_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....11354d9ea_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....0ce563eae_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....e859a5d9b_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....99d680e50_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....9128d0ffb_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....b3ec895ba_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....d72711776_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....dcd1305fe06.jpg
http://www.formule1....dcd1305fe07.jpg
http://www.formule1....dcd1305fe04.jpg
http://www.formule1....60052321.27.jpg
http://www.formule1....60052321.71.jpg
http://www.formule1....60052322.07.jpg
http://www.formule1....60052322.41.jpg
http://www.formule1....60052322.69.jpg
http://www.formule1....60052323.03.jpg
http://www.formule1....60052323.37.jpg
http://www.formule1....60054188.28.jpg
http://www.formule1....360054188.7.jpg
http://www.formule1....60054189.08.jpg
http://www.formule1....dms1305fe18.jpg
http://www.formule1....dms1305fe19.jpg
http://www.formule1....dms1305fe20.jpg
http://www.formule1....dms1305fe25.jpg
http://www.formule1....dms1305fe26.jpg
http://www.formule1....dms1305fe28.jpg
http://www.formule1....dms1305fe31.jpg

Looks really really well finished till the smallest details.

[chumma]

Very interesting idea...

[CatInTheBag]

Wow, I'm surprised. Looks like a very detailed car considering the resources.

[muramasa]

No AirAsia?

still is, on the nose

[Frankbullitt]

It's a pity they don't have good drivers for the car.

[One]

It's a pity they don't have good drivers for the car.

seconded.

[One]

still is, on the nose

I have heard that Guido payed 6 mil for the year. Counting the numbers of logos, it looks like Caterham collected some 70 mil plus for this season, just guessing tho.

[TF110]

Very interesting idea...

I guess that will help with angling the exhaust gasses. Only car I've seen that on.

[dau]

So, i take it that's the 2012 car with a lick of paint?

Looks like that. Only minor changes from what i can see. But it was expected to be an evolution, so it's not really surprising.

@One: The only car that looks like the 2012 Ferrari is the 2013 Ferrari.

[One]

Looks like that. Only minor changes from what i can see. But it was expected to be an evolution, so it's not really surprising.

@One: The only car that looks like the 2012 Ferrari is the 2013 Ferrari.

paint it in red, it looks like it.

Using chassis from 2012 is not a bad thing to do for this year, I assume..

[Jejking]

It's a pity they don't have good drivers for the car.

You shouldn't be too harsh on Pic just yet, he gave Glock a good run for his money last year. Giedo on the other hand, I'm not so sure about... And yes, that comes from a Dutchman.

[Red17]

If we take Cyril's words this is indeed an upgraded CT02. Hi words imply that this time they are being more conservative, I don't expect the revamp to come anytime soon.
Let's hope they can figure the car out this time.

I guess sponsors complained too much about the yellow, oh well, it's still on the sidepods.

[Seanspeed]

Looks absolutely nothing like the Ferrari last year.

Anyways, if its just a slightly modified 2012 design, thats not too much different from what others have done and its not like there wasn't a lot of room for improvement for them still.

[Jackmancer]

vd Garde brought McGregor - I'm curious if they'll still be on the Williams car as well.

[Jackmancer]

nice nice

[DaiMOn]

http://www.formule1....1595df828_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....11354d9ea_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....0ce563eae_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....e859a5d9b_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....99d680e50_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....9128d0ffb_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....b3ec895ba_b.jpg
http://www.formule1....d72711776_b.jpg

These are the best studio photos I've seen this year.

It's interesting that most of their sponsors (Airbus, GE, EADS, Air Asia) come from aviation industry...

Edited by DaiMOn, 05 February 2013 - 14:01.

[Myrvold]

It's interesting that most of their sponsors (Airbus, GE, EADS, Air Asia) are from aviation industry...

Not really seeing as Fernandes owns AirAsia...

[Nemo1965]

You shouldn't be too harsh on Pic just yet, he gave Glock a good run for his money last year. Giedo on the other hand, I'm not so sure about... And yes, that comes from a Dutchman.

Seconded. I am too getting a bit weary from the thumbs down about the drivers, both of them. I am a Dutchman, yes, I don't think GvdG is going to last long in F1, but at least try not to write him off as worthless before the seasons even begun...

Just imagine this. Suppose this is just a transition year. Pic and Van der Garde are able to hold on to the 10th spot in the constructers championship. For us, the followers of F1, the fans, it is too meagre. But for Caterham, this result plus the extra cash from the sponsors, is going to be sooooo important for its survival.

[MustangSally]

vd Garde brought McGregor - I'm curious if they'll still be on the Williams car as well.

There's still a tiny McGregor logo on the Williams and on the garage wall with the partner list. Guess they are running out their contract.

Caterham livery looks cool . . . but Symonds reckons Marussia, now with KERS, has a chance of beating them this year.

[DaiMOn]

Not really seeing as Fernandes owns AirAsia...

Oh, I didn't know that... Thanks for the info.

[Baddoer]

Livery looks definitely better, but whole car isn't

[CatInTheBag]

For me, it looks very progressive already. Hope there'll be more parts to come before the 1st race.

I'm surprised.

Pace is alright too. GvdG, 1st day, system checks, and 1.2s quicker already.