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Sauber C32


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#1 D.M.N.

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:27

Now that the launch has finished, please continue discussion of the Sauber C32 car development, thoughts and progress here. :)

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#2 Andy35

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 17:12

That colour scheme is going to catch me out I think. My poor sight means I might be confusing it with a Mclaren. Unless it looks a lot different when moving and there is enough visual clues.



Andy

#3 midgrid

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 17:15

The best-looking car that has been launched so far, in my opinion, and perhaps the most technically interesting (on the surface, at least) due to those tiny sidepods.

#4 SpaceHorseParty

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 17:18

The livery looks a lot like the 2010 HRT. If they wanted to change colour, they should have gone with black.

#5 Seanspeed

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 17:22

I really hate to say it, but with their new livery, I think it looks even better than the Ferrari, which I was really impressed with.

I'll be rooting for Hulkenberg this year, too. I'd like to think that with another impressive season, he'll be in with a shot at a Ferrari seat in 2014.

#6 jjcale

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 18:20

Beautiful car.

Will the Hulk get a win before SP??

#7 F1ultimate

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 18:49

I really hate to say it, but with their new livery, I think it looks even better than the Ferrari, which I was really impressed with.


I second that. The livery is absolutely gorgeous and has limited sponsor clutter.

#8 ivand911

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:39

Sauber C32 slim sidepods could be the next big thing
http://www.yallaf1.c...next-big-thing/

Schmidt said that the C32′s sidepods are 10 to 15 centimetres narrower than those on the 2012 Sauber.




#9 Baddoer

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:01

The effect of slim sidepods is most likely exaggerated. In 2005 Williams tried similar trick with ultra-low side pods but effect was so marginal that in 2006 they went back to high sidepods. And most recently, McLaren tried L-shaped sidepods but then went back to more conventional shape.

Edited by Baddoer, 04 February 2013 - 10:04.


#10 TF110

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:10

If there's no gain from it they won't run it. Other teams are slimming down the sidepods as well. RedBull have done the same thing. Everyone raves about the Newey ingenuity, well how about other teams that are doing things before them?

#11 Baddoer

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:39

I'm not saying there is no gain, i'm saying it is exaggerated. If Newey did the same thing he's most likely out of ideas. Aero rules are stable since 2009 and with banned double and blown diffuser they just left to seek gains in other areas.

Edited by Baddoer, 04 February 2013 - 10:39.


#12 TF110

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:44

I don't see anyone claiming it'll gain them loads of time, but slimming the sidepods will result in less drag, so why not do it? The key here is they have to learn ways to package the cars internals in a way so as to make these 'slimpods' work. You learn something new everyday they say, same works for F1.

#13 Baddoer

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:50

http://www.yallaf1.c...next-big-thing/
Thats there the claim has been made.

#14 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:55

The effect of slim sidepods is most likely exaggerated. In 2005 Williams tried similar trick with ultra-low side pods but effect was so marginal that in 2006 they went back to high sidepods.

That entired car was so flawed it is hard to blame the sidepods only.

It was the end of a long line of cars, each adding more and more aero drag.

The suspension was completely flawed, the car often visibly bouncing in the rear... not exactly highly compliant.

BMW recycled the 2004 engine to cut costs, and prepare for the v8 with their own BMW sauber team.

Webbo being Webbo made some errors thereby losing possible points, such as crashing into Montoya at the first corner. The ever reliable Heidfeld however scored a pole position and mutliple podiums.

Hard to judge the sidepods with everything else going on IMO!


Sauber could be on a winner. Only they know the CD/CL (drag and downforce) results for their new configuration and if it's predicted to be say 2.5 seconds per lap better than their old car....

#15 swiniodzik

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 00:00

http://www.yallaf1.c...next-big-thing/


They have an interesting shot there:

Posted Image

Seems like Sauber didn't only open up the space between the sidepod's leading edge and the turning vane next to it, but also shaped the flank of the sidepod rather unusually - instead of an undercut there looks to be a slight 'overcut' which exposes the exhaust bulge - as if to allow the flow that comes off the turning vane not to be disturbed by the sidepod's flanking edge and to enhance the exhaust flow with it. Clever.

#16 dau

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 00:22

I just hope those sidepods will not result in them having to fight cooling issues the whole season. And that they'll offer an advantage, of course.

#17 dans79

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 00:32

I just hope those sidepods will not result in them having to fight cooling issues the whole season. And that they'll offer an advantage, of course.


That's the first thing that came to my mind as well. I also wonder how much packing they had to do to get the sidepods that narrow, and if they have any room for future development because of it.


#18 Sin

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:32

Sauber has won a fan with me, not only cause of Hülkenberg as their driver but also that they made the effort to make their car launch stream available for germany (not even Mercedes livestream worked here without proxy). With that they gain great respect by me :) and their car also is a beauty, I want to see it moving on track! And I also can't wait for the videos Nico and Esteban made

Edited by Sin, 05 February 2013 - 05:56.


#19 Seanspeed

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:38

That's the first thing that came to my mind as well. I also wonder how much packing they had to do to get the sidepods that narrow, and if they have any room for future development because of it.

Sidepods aren't typically messed with during the season very much.

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#20 Mauseri

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:11

The effect of slim sidepods is most likely exaggerated. In 2005 Williams tried similar trick with ultra-low side pods but effect was so marginal that in 2006 they went back to high sidepods. And most recently, McLaren tried L-shaped sidepods but then went back to more conventional shape.

Yes we have seen low and weird shaped pods in the past. I think the narrow side pods are a big risk. It propably works in simulations if they try it, but will be interesting to see the performance on track. Because it's a combination of finding the flow around the car and tyres and to rearwing and not just the chassis alone. I would not be suprised if it's a difficult car on track, but it should be fast at least on some circuits.



#21 dans79

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:15

Sidepods aren't typically messed with during the season very much.


I know, I was referring to the body work back by the exhaust exits . If the pods are truly 20cm narrower, thats got to limit how much they can full with the body work in the back to manipulate the exhaust plume. I mean they most likely didn't make everything smaller so stuff either has to go forward or back.

#22 shonguiz

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 03:36

Isn't everyone's wish to have sidepods as norrow and tiny as possible ? What could be the disadvantage of that a part of the packaging problems and overheating maybe ? On a an aero level, i see none.

#23 packapoo

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:04

They have an interesting shot there:

Posted Image

Seems like Sauber didn't only open up the space between the sidepod's leading edge and the turning vane next to it, but also shaped the flank of the sidepod rather unusually - instead of an undercut there looks to be a slight 'overcut' which exposes the exhaust bulge - as if to allow the flow that comes off the turning vane not to be disturbed by the sidepod's flanking edge and to enhance the exhaust flow with it. Clever.


See what you're getting at. Interesting pick up.

#24 F.M.

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:30

Isn't everyone's wish to have sidepods as norrow and tiny as possible ? What could be the disadvantage of that a part of the packaging problems and overheating maybe ? On a an aero level, i see none.

The packaging problem could lead to very high internal drag

#25 jrg19

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 14:02

Posted Image

Sidepods are insane shape, car looks squashed!

#26 Gintonious

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 14:07

Can't get over how small the sidepods are, incredible.

#27 dau

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 15:55

Too bad there are no decent front or overhead studio pics to compare with other cars. Best i found:

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

I can't help it, the more i look at that the more i fear it could be too extreme. Like the extremely low Williams gearbox in 2011. Looked radical, but didn't seem to do much else then.

#28 crespo

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 16:05

Wow, thanks for that comparison. That truly is extreme. I'd love to know what the benefits could be, though. Hopefully Scarbs does a full write-up (if he hasn't already)

#29 muramasa

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 16:18

Posted Image

Sidepods are insane shape, car looks squashed!

has no undercut instead, kinda can guess where those internal equipments have migrated to.



#30 bobcat

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 16:29

Posted Image

#31 onewingedangel

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 16:31

Excuse me if i'm being thick, but wouldn't this design be relying a lot on the turning vane to prevent the air that would have been attatching to the sidepod edge and being pulled into the cokebottle from just going straight towards the rear wheel? Reducing the sidepods 'face' by itself is unlikely to really reduce drag as much as you'd expect, as you still have to manipulate the air in that area.

#32 Renatus1974

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 16:47

Too bad there are no decent front or overhead studio pics to compare with other cars. Best i found:

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

I can't help it, the more i look at that the more i fear it could be too extreme. Like the extremely low Williams gearbox in 2011. Looked radical, but didn't seem to do much else then.



What a great series of shots. The Sauber sidepods are as narrow as the inside face of the front wheels - every other car is significantly wider. Well done Sauber!!

#33 LiJu914

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 16:50

What a great series of shots. The Sauber sidepods are as narrow as the inside face of the front wheels - every other car is significantly wider. Well done Sauber!!


And what´s the advantage?

#34 muramasa

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 17:02

Excuse me if i'm being thick, but wouldn't this design be relying a lot on the turning vane to prevent the air that would have been attatching to the sidepod edge and being pulled into the cokebottle from just going straight towards the rear wheel? Reducing the sidepods 'face' by itself is unlikely to really reduce drag as much as you'd expect, as you still have to manipulate the air in that area.

kind of. you want to sort of trap as much air as possible to to feed more air to upper diffuser. turning vane is to prevent air from dispersing and escaping and to regulate airflow in order to send clear and more air to the rear. You do get reduced drag from smaller face, smaller close section means less drag, and more airflow to feed the rear ie upper diffuser = more downforce.



#35 dau

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 18:07

And what´s the advantage?

Theoretically, you should have less blockage, so more air to blow over the diffuser, the beam wing etc. Probably similar to what undercuts and double floors do, but with a lower CoG.

#36 One

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 19:38

In doing this small sidepods, Sauber did put themselves at the top of the heap. If the concept is successfully implemented, meaning they beat any cars on grid from the first race, they could be at the top steps many more times. But, if they are not, it will be kinda tricky course of development race, as they are the only one with this narrow shape up. They have anybody to look at, no inspiration to get from, nothing to copy from. Loan Wolf, can Sauber survive the whole 19 races developments technology race?

#37 Mauseri

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 19:45

In doing this small sidepods, Sauber did put themselves at the top of the heap. If the concept is successfully implemented, meaning they beat any cars on grid from the first race, they could be at the top steps many more times. But, if they are not, it will be kinda tricky course of development race, as they are the only one with this narrow shape up. They have anybody to look at, no inspiration to get from, nothing to copy from. Loan Wolf, can Sauber survive the whole 19 races developments technology race?

They don't usually develop the car much during the year anyway. And copying ideas does not always work straight away

#38 Disgrace

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 19:48

What a fantastic and brave car, I hope it's a winner.

#39 One

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 19:49

They don't usually develop the car much during the year anyway. And copying ideas does not always work straight away


so Newey was wrong to say that the modern days of formula one car needs more attentions during the season to develop it? Or are you saying that Sauber team is not keen to develop the car during the season?
I am guessing that you mean the latter, and see from the time of today, the season might be over for Sauber.

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#40 Talisman

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 19:51

Isn't everyone's wish to have sidepods as norrow and tiny as possible ? What could be the disadvantage of that a part of the packaging problems and overheating maybe ? On a an aero level, i see none.


Its not quite as simple as reducing drag by reducing the cross-sectional area of the car with smaller sidepods.

The airflow inside the sidepods has to be managed as well, otherwise the drag inside them will negate the benefit from having smaller sidepods, and thats ignoring cooling etc.

I hope the Sauber goes well this year, the question is whether they've improved mechanical grip and traction.

#41 Talisman

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 19:54

In doing this small sidepods, Sauber did put themselves at the top of the heap. If the concept is successfully implemented, meaning they beat any cars on grid from the first race, they could be at the top steps many more times. But, if they are not, it will be kinda tricky course of development race, as they are the only one with this narrow shape up. They have anybody to look at, no inspiration to get from, nothing to copy from. Loan Wolf, can Sauber survive the whole 19 races developments technology race?


I presume the sidepods are that narrow because the crash structures are smaller.

If so wouldn't anyone wanting to reduce their big sidepods to Sauber sized ones have to re-homologate their chassis? Is that even allowed?

If the sidepods are a clear advantage then it is one of those beautiful tricks that other teams won't be able to copy for a good few races if at all during 2013....

#42 One

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 20:00

I presume the sidepods are that narrow because the crash structures are smaller.

If so wouldn't anyone wanting to reduce their big sidepods to Sauber sized ones have to re-homologate their chassis? Is that even allowed?

If the sidepods are a clear advantage then it is one of those beautiful tricks that other teams won't be able to copy for a good few races if at all during 2013....


Yes ,.. If Sauber is going to beat cars from the day one, the rest of the grid will panick, as it is rather impossible to change their car. Most likely they will concentrate on upping thei rpace given that Sauber will develop slower then the rest.
But if Sauber is at the mid position at the first race, no team will look at changing their car during this season, and at home evaluate the concept. Sauber might have send their car out one year too early, I fear...

#43 midgrid

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 22:34

The Sauber's a great-looking car, but it would be even better if the colours of the rear-wing mainplane were reversed.

Edited by midgrid, 05 February 2013 - 22:34.


#44 tjkoyen

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 23:50

so Newey was wrong to say that the modern days of formula one car needs more attentions during the season to develop it? Or are you saying that Sauber team is not keen to develop the car during the season?
I am guessing that you mean the latter, and see from the time of today, the season might be over for Sauber.


Yep. Given that they're a bit off the pace in the first day of running on a green track and when no one has gone at full pace yet, they should probably just give up on the season. Clearly it's over.

McLaren has it in the bag. Their car is 1s faster than the field. Button will be champion.

/sarcasm

They're just as "keen to develp the car during the season" they just don't have the resources to develop it as quickly or as much as the top teams.

How about we wait until the cars actually are up to race spec and not running dummy bodywork and demo tires on day one before we write them off for the season?

Edited by tjkoyen, 05 February 2013 - 23:52.


#45 F.M.

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 22:28

I hadn't noted before that the Sauber also has an bulge under the nose. Not as excessive as the Lotus' though

Posted Image

#46 F.M.

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 22:29

Scarbs on the Sauber

http://www.youtube.c...w...JVw&index=1

#47 Zava

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 23:35

Sauber C32 slim sidepods could be the next big thing
http://www.yallaf1.c...next-big-thing/

wow, Carlos must be putting a LOT of money into the team, even designing the sidepods in his honor. :smoking:

#48 One

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 23:38

:lol:

wow, Carlos must be putting a LOT of money into the team, even designing the sidepods in his honor. :smoking:


jokes aside, have Sauber team kept their nose slit also for this year's model? I see that Red Bull actually used the idea for this years car...

#49 Zava

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 23:42

:lol:

jokes aside, have Sauber team kept their nose slit also for this year's model? I see that Red Bull actually used the idea for this years car...

yup:

Posted Image



#50 One

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 23:48

yup:


cool

Smaller side pods... is it really an advantage? Tires dictates the frontal projection area, so the car gets globally identical resistance as the last year? IS the flow between the two tires improved by the absence of side pods in between? ...