Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 2 votes

Wolff says Mercedes needed a professional to invest in F1 team


  • Please log in to reply
86 replies to this topic

#1 Craigster

Craigster
  • Member

  • 82 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 04 February 2013 - 19:26

http://www.autoweek....04/F1/130209935

According to Wolff Mercedes told him “We are a group with 100 billion euros in turnover but we are not sure whether we really understand motorsport. We would like a professional who is not only a manager but is also a co-shareholder, who is involved financially, has entrepreneurial risk and is therefore someone we would be comfortable with.”

I find it really surprising that Wolff has taken a swipe at his new bosses on the day of the launch. But thinking about it, if the team's problems were really so bad that it wondered whether it really understood motorsport then how have they been solved? I can't believe that hiring Lauda and Hamilton makes everything OK. Was Haug such a bad influence? It does look like he was to blame because Merc presumably left McLaren due to lack of success and then when it realised it wasn't getting any with its own team it parted ways with Haug. Wolff says that it needed a professional to own and run the team but what about Ross? If I was him I wouldn't be impressed by this outburst.

Edited by Craigster, 04 February 2013 - 19:26.


Advertisement

#2 F1ultimate

F1ultimate
  • Member

  • 2,861 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 04 February 2013 - 19:44

Wow. What a statement.

It really underscores Merc's desire to reduce risk by selling more of it's stake in the team, giving them an option to exist should 2014 fail miserably.

#3 Craigster

Craigster
  • Member

  • 82 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 04 February 2013 - 19:53

Wow. What a statement.

It really underscores Merc's desire to reduce risk by selling more of it's stake in the team, giving them an option to exist should 2014 fail miserably.

Is Wolff rich enough to carry the team? If he is then they have got the right man!

#4 F1ultimate

F1ultimate
  • Member

  • 2,861 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 04 February 2013 - 20:00

Is Wolff rich enough to carry the team? If he is then they have got the right man!

Given that he has a stake in Merc, he is pretty deep pocketted and if all goes well for the team in 2013 and 2014 I'm sure his hedge/investment firm can raise enough funds to buy out Daimler. So essentially, he's speaking about himself really. What can be more professional than an investor who also has an executive role?

#5 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 04 February 2013 - 20:17

Wolff apparently also uttered, that the team needs stability. All what I can say is, thank you Mr. Wolff for reading my posts and quoting me from back about a year ago. :D

#6 Craigster

Craigster
  • Member

  • 82 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 04 February 2013 - 20:29

Wolff apparently also uttered, that the team needs stability. All what I can say is, thank you Mr. Wolff for reading my posts and quoting me from back about a year ago. :D

But what is the stability? Wolff and Lauda or Wolff Lauda and Brawn? Why would Brawn stay after Wolff accused him of not being a professional?

#7 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 04 February 2013 - 20:46

But what is the stability? Wolff and Lauda or Wolff Lauda and Brawn? Why would Brawn stay after Wolff accused him of not being a professional?

Do you want me to respond in no more than 2000 words? Let me try to simplify what I meant when I wrote the same. Protracted negotiations regarding CA were noise on the system as people did not know whether the team will be staying or following BMW. It must have been distracting. Musical chairs in the front office is another type of noise on the system which affects front line departmental heads in more than one way, since no one knows whether he or she will have a job next months, as organisational shake up continues, and redundancies in positions, if any, will be eliminated.
Is everyone on the shop floor on board who is sitting in the front office, or some have already placed discreet inquiries about potential vacancies elsewhere? It’s not easy to define stability, but we all know, how much harm could be done when wrong signals are vibrating in the walls of the organization. People needs to settle down, and have mind focused on job in hand, something which I think Wolff was talking about.


#8 jjcale

jjcale
  • Member

  • 7,282 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 04 February 2013 - 21:12

....hard to see this ending well.

#9 Lazy

Lazy
  • Member

  • 5,274 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 04 February 2013 - 21:16

....hard to see this ending well.

Doesn't look good, does it?

#10 Craigster

Craigster
  • Member

  • 82 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 04 February 2013 - 21:26

Doesn't look good, does it?

What I really can't work out is who Wolff is taking aim at - Brawn? Haug? Fry? Surely he wouldn't say that Brawn isn't professional? Then again, he says in black and white that Mercedes was wondering whether it understood motorsport and that is harsh!

#11 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 04 February 2013 - 22:41

http://www.autoweek....04/F1/130209935

According to Wolff Mercedes told him “We are a group with 100 billion euros in turnover but we are not sure whether we really understand motorsport. We would like a professional who is not only a manager but is also a co-shareholder, who is involved financially, has entrepreneurial risk and is therefore someone we would be comfortable with.”


Who is this Mercedes? Mr. Z? or Fry?

#12 Risil

Risil
  • Member

  • 13,899 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 04 February 2013 - 22:47

According to Wolff Mercedes told him “We are a group with 100 billion euros in turnover but we are not sure whether we really understand motorsport. We would like a professional who is not only a manager but is also a co-shareholder, who is involved financially, has entrepreneurial risk and is therefore someone we would be comfortable with.”


Sounds almost like Mercedes are preparing their exit plan...

#13 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,657 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 04 February 2013 - 22:48

What I really can't work out is who Wolff is taking aim at - Brawn? Haug? Fry? Surely he wouldn't say that Brawn isn't professional? Then again, he says in black and white that Mercedes was wondering whether it understood motorsport and that is harsh!

Mr Wolff was simply referring to the owners of Mercedes AMG F1 which is Mercedes-Benz GmbH.
The owners were simply saying that the person replacing Haug as the responsible person for their Motorsport activities should be someone who has knowledge and experience in Motorsport.
Mercedes-Benz obviously felt that Wolff fits that bill, which is why they appointed him.
No dig at anyone and therefore not a subject worthy of a thread in my opinion.

#14 Craigster

Craigster
  • Member

  • 82 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 04 February 2013 - 22:57

Mr Wolff was simply referring to the owners of Mercedes AMG F1 which is Mercedes-Benz GmbH.
The owners were simply saying that the person replacing Haug as the responsible person for their Motorsport activities should be someone who has knowledge and experience in Motorsport.
Mercedes-Benz obviously felt that Wolff fits that bill, which is why they appointed him.
No dig at anyone and therefore not a subject worthy of a thread in my opinion.

So you are saying that it is not a subject worthy of a thread when Mercedes' head of motorsport says that Mercedes-Benz GmbH told him "we are are not sure whether we really understand motorsport." Do you think it is common for heads of motorsport to admit that their employers aren't sure if they understand motorsport? Particularly when the employer concerned has a history in F1 dating back to the 50s?

Edited by Craigster, 04 February 2013 - 22:57.


#15 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,657 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 04 February 2013 - 23:10

So you are saying that it is not a subject worthy of a thread when Mercedes' head of motorsport says that Mercedes-Benz GmbH told him "we are are not sure whether we really understand motorsport." Do you think it is common for heads of motorsport to admit that their employers aren't sure if they understand motorsport? Particularly when the employer concerned has a history in F1 dating back to the 50s?

Dr Z and his management team have knowledge about road cars. Isn't only wise for them to appoint someone with a background in motorsports (particularly F1 with all its intriciacies), to run their motorsport activities. I really don't see the big deal.

#16 Craigster

Craigster
  • Member

  • 82 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 04 February 2013 - 23:36

Dr Z and his management team have knowledge about road cars. Isn't only wise for them to appoint someone with a background in motorsports (particularly F1 with all its intriciacies), to run their motorsport activities. I really don't see the big deal.


Red Bull makes drinks but you won't find Christian Horner saying that they were wondering whether they really understand motorsport. Why? Because he won't want to shame his employers. The very fact that Wolff doesn't care about that is a big deal. You would also have thought Mercedes might have picked up something about motorsport over the decades they have been involved with it. Then again, maybe you will tell me that they make road cars so anything motorsport related goes in one ear and out the other.

The fact is that if it is true that Mercedes was not sure whether it really understands motorsport then its problem is not going to be solved by appointing one man (Wolff). That is an incredibly significant piece of news as it is most likely going to be the factor which governs whether the team survives or not. If Mercedes doesn't really understand motorsport then I can't see it staying in F1 in the short term. It is stunning that one of the world's biggest car companies, which first got involved with F1 in 1954, has admitted that it wasn't sure if it understands motorsport. That says more about Mercedes than anything I have read about the launch.

#17 MaxisOne

MaxisOne
  • Member

  • 1,212 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 05 February 2013 - 00:11

Red Bull makes drinks but you won't find Christian Horner saying that they were wondering whether they really understand motorsport. Why? Because he won't want to shame his employers. The very fact that Wolff doesn't care about that is a big deal. You would also have thought Mercedes might have picked up something about motorsport over the decades they have been involved with it. Then again, maybe you will tell me that they make road cars so anything motorsport related goes in one ear and out the other.

The fact is that if it is true that Mercedes was not sure whether it really understands motorsport then its problem is not going to be solved by appointing one man (Wolff). That is an incredibly significant piece of news as it is most likely going to be the factor which governs whether the team survives or not. If Mercedes doesn't really understand motorsport then I can't see it staying in F1 in the short term. It is stunning that one of the world's biggest car companies, which first got involved with F1 in 1954, has admitted that it wasn't sure if it understands motorsport. That says more about Mercedes than anything I have read about the launch.


Storm in a teacup quite frankly...

Haug ran their motorsports division.

They had a few bad years and their Works F1 team project/investment seems not to be working.

Their motorsports point man who has been in that position for many years exits (Haug)

They find Wolff who has been a DTM works partner with them for years and offers him Haug's Job in addition to a shareholding of the f1 team to divest the risk and share in the gain if there is any.

Wolff saying Mercedes needed a professional is just that ... Directors of motorsports aren't a dime a dozen and Corporate Boards and CEOs have other things on their plate than to be on the phone with Ross Brawn or any other TP on a daily basis.


Nothing wrong with the statement Wolff made.. and even if their was... nothing much they can do about it at this point considering he has a 30% stake in the team... this is a business after all.



#18 SunnyENTP

SunnyENTP
  • Member

  • 717 posts
  • Joined: August 12

Posted 05 February 2013 - 00:26

He needs Arab money just like Mclaren and Ferrari went begging cap in hand. Without middleast money and many European sports would be be on nothing.

#19 Craigster

Craigster
  • Member

  • 82 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 05 February 2013 - 00:29

Storm in a teacup quite frankly...

Wolff saying Mercedes needed a professional is just that ... Directors of motorsports aren't a dime a dozen and Corporate Boards and CEOs have other things on their plate than to be on the phone with Ross Brawn or any other TP on a daily basis.


So you think it's perfectly acceptable for a head of motorsport to admit that his employers were wondering whether they really understand motorsport? Particularly when the employer happens to be one of the world's biggest car makers with a history in F1 alone stretching back to 1954? If so, boy am I glad you don't work for me!

Advertisement

#20 MaxisOne

MaxisOne
  • Member

  • 1,212 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 05 February 2013 - 00:34

So you think it's perfectly acceptable for a head of motorsport to admit that his employers were wondering whether they really understand motorsport? Particularly when the employer happens to be one of the world's biggest car makers with a history in F1 alone stretching back to 1954? If so, boy am I glad you don't work for me!


Considering the circumstances and the fact that he isnt merely an "employee" like Haug was .. certainly.

Remember... DTM ... Partner (As in owning 49%) of their HWA AMG DTM team for quite a long time

F1 .. 30% stake.

Employees don't usually have those elements...

This is a partnership .. not some plain employee.

Edited by MaxisOne, 05 February 2013 - 00:39.


#21 dans79

dans79
  • Member

  • 279 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 05 February 2013 - 00:37

So you think it's perfectly acceptable for a head of motorsport to admit that his employers were wondering whether they really understand motorsport? Particularly when the employer happens to be one of the world's biggest car makers with a history in F1 alone stretching back to 1954? If so, boy am I glad you don't work for me!



between 1954, and 2010 they didn't have history of significance......

Supplying engines, and having a works team, are two totally different things. Additionally, it's not un-common for senior staff at any company to spout off in the press.

#22 BlackCat

BlackCat
  • Member

  • 804 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 05 February 2013 - 00:43

i sure hope merc will go the way other big manufacturers have gone - out of f1.

#23 BoschKurve

BoschKurve
  • Member

  • 1,153 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 05 February 2013 - 00:47

So you think it's perfectly acceptable for a head of motorsport to admit that his employers were wondering whether they really understand motorsport? Particularly when the employer happens to be one of the world's biggest car makers with a history in F1 alone stretching back to 1954? If so, boy am I glad you don't work for me!


Stretching back to 1954?

They withdrew altogether at the end of 1955 and weren't seen again till 1994 officially as an engine supplier for Sauber which is a gap of 39 years. I'll grant you that they had been hovering about F1 for a few years prior to that. But they didn't show up as a works team again till 2010 which is a gap of 55 years.

Their "history" is minimal as it relates to F1 as they only competed in two F1 seasons; 1954 and 1955.

Prior to 1954 they had last been involved in Grand Prix racing before the war.

I'm curious as to how you could think the employer could know much about F1 when those running the company weren't around or old enough to have been involved in the last factory effort?

#24 MaxisOne

MaxisOne
  • Member

  • 1,212 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 05 February 2013 - 00:49

Stretching back to 1954?

They withdrew altogether at the end of 1955 and weren't seen again till 1994 officially as an engine supplier for Sauber which is a gap of 39 years. I'll grant you that they had been hovering about F1 for a few years prior to that. But they didn't show up as a works team again till 2010 which is a gap of 55 years.

Their "history" is minimal as it relates to F1 as they only competed in two F1 seasons; 1954 and 1955.

Prior to 1954 they had last been involved in Grand Prix racing before the war.

I'm curious as to how you could think the employer could know much about F1 when those running the company weren't around or old enough to have been involved in the last factory effort?


Said it better than i could.

#25 Craigster

Craigster
  • Member

  • 82 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:04

Said it better than i could.


I have got two points:

1. If Mercedes actually was wondering whether it really understands motorsport then that says a MASSIVE amount about the depth of the team's problems and you can safely say that the appointment of a few new managers isn't likely to change that. That is a very significant point.

2. Regardless of whether Wolff is an employee or a partner of MB, it says a great deal about his relationship with his employer/partner that he wasn't sure whether they really understand motorsport. You find me one other current team principal/head of motorsport who has said that his employers/business partners weren't sure whether they really understand motorsport. If anyone here can do that then I will take the point but if not then it stands that Wolff's comments were exceptional.

#26 BoschKurve

BoschKurve
  • Member

  • 1,153 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:19

I have got two points:

1. If Mercedes actually was wondering whether it really understands motorsport then that says a MASSIVE amount about the depth of the team's problems and you can safely say that the appointment of a few new managers isn't likely to change that. That is a very significant point.

2. Regardless of whether Wolff is an employee or a partner of MB, it says a great deal about his relationship with his employer/partner that he wasn't sure whether they really understand motorsport. You find me one other current team principal/head of motorsport who has said that his employers/business partners weren't sure whether they really understand motorsport. If anyone here can do that then I will take the point but if not then it stands that Wolff's comments were exceptional.


His comments might be exceptional to you, but to anyone who has watched this effort that has been put forth the past few seasons certainly has been wondering whether they really understand motorsport.

I'll do you one better actually. I know there was a bit of disbelief expressed by people regarding Haug's removal. Yet I had friends who expressed disbelief that it was the consistently underperforming F1 team that caused Haug's sacking. They were certain the CLK-GTR debacle over a decade ago would have been the end of the line for him as that would have been enough to have most people in his position sacked elsewhere.

The organizational structure at MGP is frankly shit. They continue to add all of these people in to the point that there appears to be little to no accountability for anything that goes wrong there, or even has gone wrong since the works team was revived. All we've had is Brawn's illogical ramblings about trying to understand tires for an entire season as some excuse for not knowing what to do. The DAI board has accepted all of the excuses and the only thing they've done was eliminate Haug. Everyone else remains. They also decided to throw more money at the team even though it is obvious that throwing more money doesn't equal results in motorsports if you don't have the right people in place...I have no idea what their realistic goals are as they keep blabbing away about 2014 being the year everything changes.

#27 Craigster

Craigster
  • Member

  • 82 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:31

His comments might be exceptional to you, but to anyone who has watched this effort that has been put forth the past few seasons certainly has been wondering whether they really understand motorsport.

I'll do you one better actually. I know there was a bit of disbelief expressed by people regarding Haug's removal. Yet I had friends who expressed disbelief that it was the consistently underperforming F1 team that caused Haug's sacking. They were certain the CLK-GTR debacle over a decade ago would have been the end of the line for him as that would have been enough to have most people in his position sacked elsewhere.

The organizational structure at MGP is frankly shit. They continue to add all of these people in to the point that there appears to be little to no accountability for anything that goes wrong there, or even has gone wrong since the works team was revived. All we've had is Brawn's illogical ramblings about trying to understand tires for an entire season as some excuse for not knowing what to do. The DAI board has accepted all of the excuses and the only thing they've done was eliminate Haug. Everyone else remains. They also decided to throw more money at the team even though it is obvious that throwing more money doesn't equal results in motorsports if you don't have the right people in place...I have no idea what their realistic goals are as they keep blabbing away about 2014 being the year everything changes.


I fully agree that the team is a joke and is in dire trouble. Wolff's comments are the clearest indication of that and that in itself is the most interesting thing. The next time anyone from the team tells us how confident they are about 2013/2014 we know that in reality they aren't even sure that they understand motorsport :lol:

#28 MaxisOne

MaxisOne
  • Member

  • 1,212 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:48

I have got two points:

1. If Mercedes actually was wondering whether it really understands motorsport then that says a MASSIVE amount about the depth of the team's problems and you can safely say that the appointment of a few new managers isn't likely to change that. That is a very significant point.

2. Regardless of whether Wolff is an employee or a partner of MB, it says a great deal about his relationship with his employer/partner that he wasn't sure whether they really understand motorsport. You find me one other current team principal/head of motorsport who has said that his employers/business partners weren't sure whether they really understand motorsport. If anyone here can do that then I will take the point but if not then it stands that Wolff's comments were exceptional.


Car company ceo's do not run their motorsport arms... they have partners or executive level directors for that. With Ferrari being the only exception.

Directors of motorsport usually outline the vision and the strategy. Merc lost one and gained one with some essential changes as I pointed out.

Shareholders have the right to state their views whether others like them or not.

Finally. Team principals for the most part dont hold shares in their teams with the exception of Sauber. So obviously they wont say anything bad because they do have a boss and are not business partners in the true sense of the term.


#29 dans79

dans79
  • Member

  • 279 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:11

I fully agree that the team is a joke and is in dire trouble. Wolff's comments are the clearest indication of that and that in itself is the most interesting thing. The next time anyone from the team tells us how confident they are about 2013/2014 we know that in reality they aren't even sure that they understand motorsport :lol:


Well it seems Wolff was hired to clean house.


#30 Craigster

Craigster
  • Member

  • 82 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:13

Car company ceo's do not run their motorsport arms... they have partners or executive level directors for that. With Ferrari being the only exception.

Directors of motorsport usually outline the vision and the strategy. Merc lost one and gained one with some essential changes as I pointed out.

Shareholders have the right to state their views whether others like them or not.

Finally. Team principals for the most part dont hold shares in their teams with the exception of Sauber. So obviously they wont say anything bad because they do have a boss and are not business partners in the true sense of the term.


All Williams management has shares so they are no different to Wolff. Can you find any evidence of them saying that Frank (the majority shareholder) doesn't understand motorsport? How about Sauber? There is no precedent for these kind of comments from any current team principal/head of motorsport. If you can find any quotes then do provide them otherwise it remains a fact that Wolff's comments are exceptional. By the way, as well as being a shareholder in MGP, Wolff is also a director which makes him an employee of the company. Find me quotes from any team principal/shareholder saying that the majority owner wasn't sure it understood motorsport. If there aren't any then Wolff has set a precedent.

#31 dans79

dans79
  • Member

  • 279 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:21

All Williams management has shares so they are no different to Wolff. Can you find any evidence of them saying that Frank (the majority shareholder) doesn't understand motorsport? How about Sauber? There is no precedent for these kind of comments from any current team principal/head of motorsport. If you can find any quotes then do provide them otherwise it remains a fact that Wolff's comments are exceptional. By the way, as well as being a shareholder in MGP, Wolff is also a director which makes him an employee of the company. Find me quotes from any team principal/shareholder saying that the majority owner wasn't sure it understood motorsport. If there aren't any then Wolff has set a precedent.


You do understand that the guys that own 60% of MGP don't know squat about f1 right? look at the career bullet points they list, they are bean counters.

http://www.daimler.c...d-of-management

#32 Craigster

Craigster
  • Member

  • 82 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:27

You do understand that the guys that own 60% of MGP don't know squat about f1 right? look at the career bullet points they list, they are bean counters.

http://www.daimler.c...d-of-management

I FULLY understand that. The point I am making is that you won't find any other current team principal/motorsport head saying this, much less someone who has recently been employed. Likewise, find me a current driver saying that the team he currently drivers for doesn't really understand motorsport.

The fact that Wolff said this is proof that Mercedes really doesn't know what it is doing and I'm sure they are going to love him for pointing this out so bluntly. :love:

#33 bass6

bass6
  • Member

  • 42 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 05 February 2013 - 03:59

I googled 'Mercedes in Motorsport' and found the company has a long and often successful history in motorsport including:


Grand Prix/Formula 1 from 1923-1939, 1954 & 1955 (and winning the championship in both years), F1 engine supplier from 1994 til today winning 4 WDCs and 2 WCCs, and Mercedes are now entering their fourth year as a modern-day F1 constructor in 2013

Involvement in sportscar racing at various times

Involvement in various incarnations of the DTM racing series from 1988

Engine supplier for Formula 3 since 2002


I also found this:

"Norbert Haug has led the Motorsport division of Mercedes-Benz since 1 October 1990. In that time, Mercedes-Benz and its partners won six Formula One world championship titles and took 87 Formula One victories. In the DTM, Mercedes teams won a total of 32 titles under Haug’s leadership. Since the first title win in 1992, Mercedes-Benz has won 54% of all DTM races and about 60% of all DTM titles (drivers/manufacturers/teams). During that period of time Mercedes-Benz has competed in 986 races in total (Formula One, Champ Car, GT, Group C, Formula 3) under Haug’s leadership and won 439 of them (45.4%)."

http://www.dtm.com/e...Motorsport.html

I do find it surprising, exceptional even, for a company with such a history in motorsport to claim not to understand motorsport. But looking at the Mercedes F1 team, it does seem a little chaotic. With Brawn, Wolff, Lauda, the Mercedes board all appearing to have a say in the running of the team it seems like a chicken with too many heads. I just hope they don't end up like BMW, Toyota and Honda, spending a lot of money and getting nowhere.



#34 indian

indian
  • Member

  • 1,173 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:20

http://www.autoweek....04/F1/130209935

According to Wolff Mercedes told him “We are a group with 100 billion euros in turnover but we are not sure whether we really understand motorsport. We would like a professional who is not only a manager but is also a co-shareholder, who is involved financially, has entrepreneurial risk and is therefore someone we would be comfortable with.”


Isn't that what they had with McLaren?

#35 Craigster

Craigster
  • Member

  • 82 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:40

Isn't that what they had with McLaren?

:up:

#36 packapoo

packapoo
  • Member

  • 731 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:47

Sounds almost like Mercedes are preparing their exit plan...


They are. Or I should say, they have.

Notwithstanding, I see nothing wrong in Toto's statement.
For me, I could not have conceived that this historic racing concern could return to F1 and stuff it up so comprehensively.

#37 flatlander48

flatlander48
  • Member

  • 317 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 05 February 2013 - 05:09

Isn't that what they had with McLaren?


No, McLaren was too independent and wouldn't give up any control. That's what BMW wanted at Williams, but Frank and the boys weren't giving it up either...

Edited by flatlander48, 05 February 2013 - 05:10.


#38 dans79

dans79
  • Member

  • 279 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:22

They are. Or I should say, they have.

Notwithstanding, I see nothing wrong in Toto's statement.
For me, I could not have conceived that this historic racing concern could return to F1 and stuff it up so comprehensively.


the reason they did so well pre WWII, was because Hitler threw the might of Germany behind Merc winning, it was just another way for him to show German supremacy as he saw it. They did so well in the early 50's because it was basically the same guys from pre WWII.


#39 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,657 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:41

They bought an F1 team but bottom line is that Motorsport is not Mercedes-Benz's core activity meaning they don't know the business inside-out.
So it's natural they look for people with a background in the sport to run that side of the business.
They can design a high performing engine. They have great marketing resources, but there are many aspects of the Motorsport business that they do not have a lot of knowledge or expertise in.

It would have been a different story had they bought another car company. They would be able to use their in-house knowledge and expertise to run it because that's their core activity.

Edited by Timstr11, 05 February 2013 - 06:42.


Advertisement

#40 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,677 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:07

Isn't that what they had with McLaren?



Ehhmm, no.

#41 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:14

Norbert Haug is a journalist by training, and we really do not much else know about him, just as we do not know how much real authority he had over major directional decisions, or how much in tangible terms he has interfered with decisions at Brackley. I know some people who thought that Haug is being made a scape goat for decisions conceived at some other office, but, it’s over now, and I doubt that Norbert ever will speak publicly about his working experience with F1 crowd. Watching him for a while leads me also to believe, that he actually detested Ecclestone and several other TP for their behaviour, but that’s another chapter for some other time.

Wolff, residing where action is, made a right decision IMO. (I could not see how Lauda could run the team from the distance). I must also admit that I would have been happier had F1 operations moved to Germany (Toyota facilities were available), but the corporation decided to stay in England, at least for now, and one has to respect that, its their money after all. (Not Arab money as someone mentioned earlier).

In general terms I think we should thank Mercedes for supporting F1 sporting activities, messy and volatile place as it these days, and remain active as an engine supplier and team co-owners. To those with sharp pen and venous language I would say, you haven't perhaps noticed, but not too many companies of reputable names are willing to do the same, and at the end your dislike of manufacturers is ill conceived, as it comes to one’s vision what kind of F1 you want to see.

As an investor, Wolf is in tangible manner integrated with team's success or failures. Finally, we really do not know anything about working relationship between Brawn and Wolff, thus at least for me, this one remains potentially a squeaky wheel, and should those two will talk to each other over their shoulders, than the team remains unstable IMO. Brawn, I assume, will be reporting to Wolff unless he leaves, just as Fry’s future is in clouds. Resources shuffle is most likely not over by any means, and what kind of miracle professional Wolff really is, remains to be seen.


#42 Craigster

Craigster
  • Member

  • 82 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 06 February 2013 - 02:58

Wolff, residing where action is, made a right decision IMO.


Austria? Switzerland? :confused:

#43 gm914

gm914
  • Member

  • 6,046 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 06 February 2013 - 03:26

Norbert Haug is a journalist by training, and we really do not much else know about him, just as we do not know how much real authority he had over major directional decisions, or how much in tangible terms he has interfered with decisions at Brackley. I know some people who thought that Haug is being made a scape goat for decisions conceived at some other office, but, it’s over now, and I doubt that Norbert ever will speak publicly about his working experience with F1 crowd.

I expect a book. Full of juicy details and maybe a recipe or two.

#44 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:56

Austria? Switzerland? :confused:

Actually no, but I read somewhere that is will be moving to Brackley which might not be desirable holliday resort, but the team is there. Assuming he will move, I think it is a correct decision.

#45 MustangSally

MustangSally
  • Member

  • 372 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 06 February 2013 - 11:25

Resources shuffle is most likely not over by any means . . . and what kind of miracle professional Wolff really is, remains to be seen.


On the first point, it is a bit of a conundrum. First they buy out investors in the team with entrepreneurial risk . . . RB and Fry . . . and now they sell to an investor. U-turn.

On the second point, not convinced about Wolff at all. He hardly has a proven track record like Ross and surely Adam Parr takes the credit for rescuing Williams. Toto brought in a couple of Austrian mates and his wife. Hmmm . . .



#46 r4mses

r4mses
  • Member

  • 1,100 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 06 February 2013 - 11:45

http://www.autoweek....04/F1/130209935

According to Wolff Mercedes told him “We are a group with 100 billion euros in turnover but we are not sure whether we really understand motorsport. We would like a professional who is not only a manager but is also a co-shareholder, who is involved financially, has entrepreneurial risk and is therefore someone we would be comfortable with.”

[...]


Sounds like that's aimed at Haug - who was just a journalist and manager... one might say (I don't think that's fair).


#47 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:11

Sounds like that's aimed at Haug - who was just a journalist and manager... one might say (I don't think that's fair).

Looking at Norbert's depature today, based on Wolff's quote only, it is really suggestive that it was not entirely Norbert's decision to leave his position. Nothing wrong with the content or premise of that statement, but whether Wolff had to say it to media is another matter, and I am really not impressed by it.

#48 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

Ferrari_F1_fan_2001
  • Member

  • 3,026 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:28

Chess games by Wolff and Lauda are already in motion.

#49 Craigster

Craigster
  • Member

  • 82 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 06 February 2013 - 17:30

Chess games by Wolff and Lauda are already in motion.

You mean they have set a date to give Fry and Brawn the boot?! It is inevitable. Has there ever been a team with so many senior people achieving so little?
Brawn
Haug
Fry

:lol:

#50 BoschKurve

BoschKurve
  • Member

  • 1,153 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 06 February 2013 - 17:52

You mean they have set a date to give Fry and Brawn the boot?! It is inevitable. Has there ever been a team with so many senior people achieving so little?
Brawn
Haug
Fry

:lol:


You have no idea how badly I want Brawn replaced by Briatore.