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Wolff says Mercedes needed a professional to invest in F1 team


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#51 britishtrident

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 21:21

The trouble with self destruct buttons is that human beings cannot resist the urge to press them.

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#52 Garagiste

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 22:19

Hardly a shock that those near the top of a car giant know little about motorsport - who can forget:
"Who the hell is Edmund Irvine, and why is he the 2nd highest paid employee of the For Motor Co?"

Edited by Garagiste, 06 February 2013 - 22:22.


#53 flatlander48

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 00:56

You have no idea how badly I want Brawn replaced by Briatore.


Yes, actually CrashGate II has a certain je ne sais quoi, don't you think?

#54 Szoelloe

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:39

You have no idea how badly I want Brawn replaced by Briatore.



Hey Bosch, that's not even humorous.



On second thoughts, though, it is.

#55 Sakae

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:45

Hardly a shock that those near the top of a car giant know little about motorsport - who can forget:
"Who the hell is Edmund Irvine, and why is he the 2nd highest paid employee of the For Motor Co?"

What is there to know about motorsport? Having know-how likes Todt, Newey or Schumacher? I would not expect an executive sitting at the distance to be familiar with inner-dynamics in paddock from a race to race on that level, and judging the race I am sure they are capable off as anyone on this BB. That could have been merely a rhetorical statement since only a few are close to the action, and could be considered as real insiders and act accordingly. Not everyone is JeanT., and to be frank, I am not sure that Wolff is either, but since I do not know much about him beyond some tid bits, lets see how he does. First test is here, because last two days weren't something what anyone wanted, and we will see how he reacts.

Edited by Sakae, 07 February 2013 - 06:46.


#56 Szoelloe

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:19

What is there to know about motorsport? Having know-how likes Todt, Newey or Schumacher? I would not expect an executive sitting at the distance to be familiar with inner-dynamics in paddock from a race to race on that level, and judging the race I am sure they are capable off as anyone on this BB. That could have been merely a rhetorical statement since only a few are close to the action, and could be considered as real insiders and act accordingly. Not everyone is JeanT., and to be frank, I am not sure that Wolff is either, but since I do not know much about him beyond some tid bits, lets see how he does. First test is here, because last two days weren't something what anyone wanted, and we will see how he reacts.


He will redesign the wiring and the brake hydraulic tubes, and install them single-handedly.

Joke aside, we have seen how he reacts: "at least we know that our car is competetive". It's what he can, and what he should say, besides the quite obvious and needed "what the team needs now is stability". If there is any action he feels should be taken, most possibly we will never hear about it. it is not his job furthermore, to meddle in tech affairs. He may ask for clarifiction as to why these problems occured, and what action was taken to prevent them from happening again, but even that is not necessary, since he is(or was) on site. The guy does not seem to be the kind of person who goes into panic mode and starts shrieking when the first days of testing reveal some teething problems. If they still have problems by Barcelona in two weeks time, that's pretty bad. I hardly think that will be the case though.

On another note, the arrival of Wollf and recent information about how that came to be, sheds some light on why Haug had to go. So thew scapegoat theory was wrong, IMHO.

#57 Sakae

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 10:26

If Wolff (or Haug before him) has to get involved in that level of detail like checking reliability assessments, than Ross Brawn is not a right man for that job. BTW, does anyone knows what Ross' job really is these days? I can imagine what Horner does, but with Wolff on the scene I am lost what's left for Ross to do. There are people in place to lead design and rest of operations, and if Wolff runs the joint,...

#58 Szoelloe

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 10:29

If Wolff (or Haug before him) has to get involved in that level of detail like checking reliability assessments, than Ross Brawn is not a right man for that job. BTW, does anyone knows what Ross' job really is these days? I can imagine what Horner does, but with Wolff on the scene I am lost what's left for Ross to do. There are people in place to lead design and rest of operations, and if Wolff runs the joint,...



But he doesn't. Why would you say he does? Is there a reliability problem?

#59 noikeee

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 18:28

....hard to see this ending well.


This.

Also, I side with Joe Saward's article from a couple of weeks ago: Wolff is their exit plan if things don't work out the next couple of years.

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#60 BoschKurve

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 18:38

Yes, actually CrashGate II has a certain je ne sais quoi, don't you think?


I do. I figure if we see Flavio on the pitwall again, there'd be a certain excitement over the possibility of some sort of fraud every race weekend.

The way I figure, Brawn's time is numbered and this will be his last season no matter what. Toto and the Rat have their own ideas about where this team has to go. Of course whether it will be going anywhere is an altogether separate issue.

But were I DrZ, I'd be real careful about having Lauda and Wolff involved with the team as they are now. If they really are the potential exit strategy for DAI as I think they are, who is to say they might not try to kill the value of this team in an underhanded way just so they can do a management buyout for pennies on the dollar the way Brawn did the Honda outfit in 2009?

#61 Paco

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 18:43

Isn't it a coincidence that this comes out the same day Bernie is meeting with the teams... Isn't MGP AMG F1 still concerned about the cost of running a works teams and still at best 4th in amount of spending.. Isn't Williams still pissed about the CBA and lack of equality for all teams..

I smell a rat simply expelling hot air...

I do however see MGP bowing out and going back to being a works engine partnership along with customer engines again in the not to distant future.

#62 Paco

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 18:45

All this going about Mercedes not knowing motorsport... Seriously people. That's just a smokescreen to rile people up.

#63 Craigster

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 19:29

That's just a smokescreen to rile people up.

People like Brawn and Haug?
:rotfl:

#64 BoschKurve

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:16

People like Brawn and Haug?
:rotfl:


Have you ever noticed how little emotion Brawn expresses? The only thing that got him fired up last year for all of 5 seconds, was when he scolded Michael on the team radio in Singapore for that shunt.

No wonder this team has so much trouble achieving things. Their own leader has about as much internal fire as a doormat.

#65 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:18

So, suppose Mercedes doesn't plan on being around in 2015.

... and, McLaren knows this, but of course can't say anything.

Hamilton knows McLaren will have to find engines in 2015.

Wolff knows Mercedes is evaporating in 2015; keeps his stake in Williams.

2015: Williams F1 acquires the remains of Mercedes F1. Brawn returns to his Honda ties, who supplies engines.

Meanwhile, McLaren has to get engines from somewhere; they pull in Carlos Slim to buy the remains of PURE.

:)


#66 BRG

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:20

No wonder this team has so much trouble achieving things. Their own leader has about as much internal fire as a doormat.

Unlike that raving extrovert Ron Dennis?

#67 BoschKurve

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:23

Unlike that raving extrovert Ron Dennis?


*looks at own post to see reference to Ron Dennis in said post*

*doesn't see it*

#68 Craigster

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:24

Have you ever noticed how little emotion Brawn expresses? The only thing that got him fired up last year for all of 5 seconds, was when he scolded Michael on the team radio in Singapore for that shunt.

No wonder this team has so much trouble achieving things. Their own leader has about as much internal fire as a doormat.

Given how much money he made from the team he doesn't need to bother. It's the same with Patrick Head but at least he had the decency to retire!

#69 BoschKurve

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:31

Given how much money he made from the team he doesn't need to bother. It's the same with Patrick Head but at least he had the decency to retire!


I agree! Although I do think Brawn's contract stipulated that each year he remains team principal he gets another pay out for the sale. Imagine that? Forcing the guy to remain doing something he probably has no interest in anymore just so he can get his millions. What could possibly go wrong with that idea?

#70 PedroBR

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:39

In Mercedes ranks, the professional with most experience and knowledge on motorsports was Haug - he has been the General in the field for so many years, he absorved and developed a enormous amount of experience and kwowledge.
If Mercedes were looking for more knowledge in motorsports the most logical step would be to put Haug in a executive position - where he could disseminate in the company all his knowledge and experience.
That said, all that seems to be a smoke screen because they cant say the truth: "hey everybody sorry but we wanted a partner to split the risks because things can go sideways"

Strictly from a company/strategic point of view, they┬┤re correct on their move. If things go nicely they capitalize, if things go wrong they didnot throw away a bilion moneys.

#71 Sakae

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:44

But he doesn't. Why would you say he does? Is there a reliability problem?

By definition yes, there are.

#72 packapoo

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 04:55

You have no idea how badly I want Brawn replaced by Briatore.


He needs to be on the red teams pitwall for real karma.

#73 BRG

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 21:48

*looks at own post to see reference to Ron Dennis in said post*

*doesn't see it*

Look harder.



#74 BoschKurve

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 18:17

Look harder.


Straw man alert.

#75 flatlander48

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 01:08

I do. I figure if we see Flavio on the pitwall again, there'd be a certain excitement over the possibility of some sort of fraud every race weekend.
That would do wonders for the credibility of the series...

But were I DrZ, I'd be real careful about having Lauda and Wolff involved with the team as they are now. If they really are the potential exit strategy for DAI as I think they are, who is to say they might not try to kill the value of this team in an underhanded way just so they can do a management buyout for pennies on the dollar the way Brawn did the Honda outfit in 2009?


The thing is, I can't see why Lauda is involved if this is a potential exit strategy. Lauda's not Team Principal material. Why would Wolff want him around if Wolff had a controlling interest in the team? I don't see how Lauda would be relevant in that scenario.

#76 Velocifer

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:07

I side with Joe Saward's article from a couple of weeks ago: Wolff is their exit plan if things don't work out the next couple of years.

Very good article that makes so much sense of the situation.

#77 dans79

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:21

The thing is, I can't see why Lauda is involved if this is a potential exit strategy. Lauda's not Team Principal material. Why would Wolff want him around if Wolff had a controlling interest in the team? I don't see how Lauda would be relevant in that scenario.


court jester? You have to admit, he's a good distraction.

#78 Cool Beans

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:33

Straw man alert.

A dispassionate man leading a team to great achievements. Accurate analogy. The lackadaisical counter arguments validate the credibility of the claim.

#79 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:19

Have you ever noticed how little emotion Brawn expresses? The only thing that got him fired up last year for all of 5 seconds, was when he scolded Michael on the team radio in Singapore for that shunt.

No wonder this team has so much trouble achieving things. Their own leader has about as much internal fire as a doormat.


It wasn't Ross Brawn on the radio. It was his race engineer...which one I have no idea....there were that many changes from 2010-2012.

Back on topic: It is clear that Wolff and Lauda have soft soaped their way to upper management levels at Mercedes. They'll oust Brawn...Mercedes will pull out and the team may get bought out by someone like VAG and Ladua and Wolff could make a fortune.

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#80 study

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:38

They can't do any worse then the last 3 years.

Lets wait till the end of this year before making any judgements.

#81 olliek88

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:50

Have you ever noticed how little emotion Brawn expresses? The only thing that got him fired up last year for all of 5 seconds, was when he scolded Michael on the team radio in Singapore for that shunt.

No wonder this team has so much trouble achieving things. Their own leader has about as much internal fire as a doormat.


Getting fired up etc is not the way to operate in any business, its unprofessional and can led to your judgement being clouded by emotion, you need to separate yourself and work in a calm, calculated way. Ala Ron Dennis, or Adrian Newey.

I'd hate to be a colleague of yours if you think getting "fired up" is the way to work, you can be passionate about your work and calm at the same time you know...

#82 BoschKurve

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 14:55

Getting fired up etc is not the way to operate in any business, its unprofessional and can led to your judgement being clouded by emotion, you need to separate yourself and work in a calm, calculated way. Ala Ron Dennis, or Adrian Newey.

I'd hate to be a colleague of yours if you think getting "fired up" is the way to work, you can be passionate about your work and calm at the same time you know...


Are you aware of the screaming arguments Ron Dennis and John Barnard used to get into in Ron's office?

#83 BoschKurve

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 15:05

Also ollie, Steve Jobs was notorious for getting fired up. Apple did quite well under that management philosophy he had. So to say it's not the way to operate in any business, is not true.

#84 flatlander48

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 22:27

court jester? You have to admit, he's a good distraction.


Similar to Dr. Marko...

#85 flatlander48

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 22:31

Also ollie, Steve Jobs was notorious for getting fired up. Apple did quite well under that management philosophy he had. So to say it's not the way to operate in any business, is not true.


It's not a management philosophy. It is a personal philosophy. The thing is, after a while it ceases to be effective. People just tune it out like background noise. I'm always amazed that the link between intelligence and maturity isn't stronger. I think Jobs showed a lot of immaturity with his rants, but that's how he was. While I can see a link between anger and action, I don't see one between anger and intellect.

#86 Nathan

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:58

So basically Mercedes misses what they had with McLaren??

#87 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 13:15

Wolff has a combination of racing and business experience nobody else in F1 has. Curiously, I see Lauda as being similar, except that while Wolff has more hands on business experience, Lauda obviously has more racing experience.


I have a more fun prediction: Wolf is going through "training" to take over FOM post-Bernie. The Williams stake gives him the "in" to be allowed into the Concord Agreement details, see the books, and the management experience at Mercedes will give him insight into a top level racing team operation (Hamilton, Brawn). Nobody else will bring to the FOM table the combination that he has.