178 replies to this topic

[Talisman]

Perhaps, but again, to your average MP4/12C buyer - Honda's are not cool... Besides, seriously, after Honda's last efforts, do you really want them back? Are peoples memories really that short?

A McLaren, not a McLaren Mercedes, or a McLaren Honda - just McLaren - now that would be cool. For that reason, I would love to hear that they had bought Cosworth and were making their own engine tech in house.

Is a Riccardo/Nissan cool? Because thats what is in the back of the MP4/12C.

Remember when McLaren designed the F1 their partner of choice was Honda but the deal fell apart because Honda merely wanted to use a detuned F1 engine while McLaren wanted a bespoke motor.

I think you vastly overestimate the importance of what you describe as 'coolness' when it comes to engine choice for supercars, and you really aren't able to grasp that a car company has different images in different countries.

BTW McLaren already markets its cars as merely McLarens. They do not advertise that the engine is built by Riccardo widely.

[V3TT3L]

This is a McLaren fan.

http://www.thisismon...l#axzz2KS9Yy7xB

[/url]

This car needs an engine... for sure.

Edited by V3TT3L, 10 February 2013 - 01:03.

[Absulute]

That's actually heartbreaking

[Ross Stonefeld]

They fixed it. And I always smirk when people do that to cars(assuming no one was injured).

[SPBHM]

I don't know anyone who aspires to buy a honda.. they all want mercedes, bmws, minis and range rovers!

Honda's are traditionally for a lot of people a 'sensible' choice or an uninspired old people car

Yes Honda has been successful in motorsport but I really don't think that's translated into a better brand image for their mass consumer cars.

NSX, the S2000 or even the SI or Mugen Civic always attracted some attention here I think, and their motosport heritage helped I'm sure.

[Mc_Silver]

I would love to see McLaren-Honda relationship again

[mclarensmps]

That's actually heartbreaking

It's actually Rowan Atkinson

[10e10]

I would love to see McLaren-Honda relationship again

Me too. Not that I don't like the Mercedes engine, but for 2014 I think it's important to be a works team. And McLaren-Honda will always sound good!

[JRizzle86]

That's actually heartbreaking

At least it has a happy ending.

"Now, after more than a year of specialist repairs at McLaren’s base in Woking, Surrey, it is as good as new."

[study]

I'd like to know what speed he was doing and wonder if the police had a word with him.

[Sausage]

It's actually Rowan Atkinson

That's what you get when you sit on top of the car in a chair and pull ropes for steering.

[Seano]

Cosworth
The Cosworth Group is a world leader with a prestigious reputation built on 54 years of excellence, innovation and collaboration. The group delivers high performance technologies to a diverse range of industries using its capabilities in mechanical and electronic engineering.

Mugen Euro Co Limited
Main Business and Products
1.Designing, development, production, assembly and marketing of automotive engines for racing.
2.Designing, development manufacturing and marketing of motorsports engines, parts and components for Honda cars and technical services at racing circuits.

Both Companies are based at St.James Mill Rd, Northampton

Now if a certain Woking based F1 constructor and a large Japanese car manufacturer where to join forces to produce low volume, high performance engines for road and F1 use, this could be a useful facility to acquire.

Seano

[Clatter]

At least it has a happy ending.

"Now, after more than a year of specialist repairs at McLaren’s base in Woking, Surrey, it is as good as new."

Not good for his insurance premium though.

Rowan Atkinson gets £900k car insurance payout

[Gilles4Ever]

Can we please bring this thread back on topic

[One]

http://www.ft.com/cm...l#axzz2Kb5eGZF8

This is a bit general information,... but Tim routsis says that Cosworth is setting up a new type of 'hybrid company' where stakeholders develop innovative engines, for race cars as well as road going vehicles. Should Mclaren to take a stake in such development scheme, the risk that Mclaren is taking is significantly smaller than Mclaren being solo new owner of the company. Not only, such collaboration will create further plat form of technology exchanges that will benefit the course of development?

I am in for saying that JA made some mistakes here, but the rumor is quite at it.

[Amphicar]

Cosworth
The Cosworth Group is a world leader with a prestigious reputation built on 54 years of excellence, innovation and collaboration. The group delivers high performance technologies to a diverse range of industries using its capabilities in mechanical and electronic engineering.

Mugen Euro Co Limited
Main Business and Products
1.Designing, development, production, assembly and marketing of automotive engines for racing.
2.Designing, development manufacturing and marketing of motorsports engines, parts and components for Honda cars and technical services at racing circuits.

Both Companies are based at St.James Mill Rd, Northampton

Now if a certain Woking based F1 constructor and a large Japanese car manufacturer where to join forces to produce low volume, high performance engines for road and F1 use, this could be a useful facility to acquire.

Seano

Cosworth and Mugen Euro are both located on the same industrial estate in Northampton but not in the same building - St James Mill Road is quite long. In fact, MAHLE Powertrain Ltd (the bit of the old Cosworth that Audi used to own is closer to the Cosworth Group HQ than the Mugen Euro building is.

[onewingedangel]

Cosworth and Mugen Euro are both located on the same industrial estate in Northampton but not in the same building - St James Mill Road is quite long. In fact, MAHLE Powertrain Ltd (the bit of the old Cosworth that Audi used to own is closer to the Cosworth Group HQ than the Mugen Euro building is.

Looking on google maps the MAHLE building is between the main Cosworth site and the Mugen, but the Mugen building seems to be split with Cosworth.

https://dl.dropbox.c...gencosworth.png

Of course that may be quite out of date.

Edited by onewingedangel, 11 February 2013 - 19:47.

[Seano]

That's exactly how it looked the last time I was there (approximately 2 years ago). I'm not saying its going to happen, but there is a certain symmetry. I know that Cosworth already does some work for Mugen.

Their combination would I think, have the benefit of being at arms length from partners respective boards.

It would be bloody fantastic to see and hear two of the most famous names in F1 brought back, come on Hirotoshi, do it for your Father and F1 fans!

Seano

[Ross Stonefeld]

If Honda were to do it, they'd do it in house. Racing is more than marketing to them.

[Seano]

But in these tough economic times??

I would imagine that they would want to do much of the R&D back in Japan but the fabrication, assembly and supply/maintenance to the teams would be effectively served from a UK operation.

They would be getting a lot of bang for very little of their yen in doing this collaboration! Racing plus the chance to do a bit of Earth Dreaming whats not to like!

Seano

[onewingedangel]

With the strong Yen, it would more prudent for Honda to spend their money outside Japan.

[chumma]

Come on Honda, exclusive deal with McLaren come onnnnn!

[muramasa]

It would be bloody fantastic to see and hear two of the most famous names in F1 brought back, come on Hirotoshi, do it for your Father and F1 fans!

he's in jail atm , due to tax evasion case in circa 2003. he admitted he sort of approved tax saving scheme done by then auditor but pleaded not guilty. i have an impression that the case wasnt processed thoroughly and eventually closed without revealing much of what was really going on.
I wouldnt say Hirotoshi is completely innocent but, Hirotoshi, who the courts admitted had very limited knowledge about accounting, had to serve for 2 years in jail, while the auditor, whom the courts declared as the primal offender who's responsible for the most part of the crime, got sentence of "only" 3 years in jail?
He should be released soon, altho i'm not sure he'll be able to come back to mugen. Also he's over 70 now. Shame he had to waste his 60s, prime age for overseeing a company and raising and directing young engineers and successors.
The company continued on well without him, proving indirectly that his management had been excellent.

I would imagine that they would want to do much of the R&D back in Japan but the fabrication, assembly and supply/maintenance to the teams would be effectively served from a UK operation.

It's certainly possible that this time around Honda do engine R&D at home and commission mugen or cosworth or whatever outside its actual operation. That way they can save money and avoid repeat of 00s, and can secure long term commitment in the sport. (long term commitment shud be the main concern and the key factor to consider for Macca if they were to part company with Merc, as it'd be a dicision for their next decade or more.)
one thing tho is that mugen and honda has no capital relationship, at least in Japan. They may have in the past but for most part of their history they've been independent. Maybe Mugen-Honda is closer to Mecachrome-Renault, if the latter combo is not in capital relationship either. Relation b/w Honda and Mugen is sort of interesting, Mugen is no doubt Honda appliance supplier and racing operation arm, but oftentimes they operate freely, independent of Honda. Nissan has NISMO and Toyota has TRD etc but they are all 100% subsidiary of parent company, but Mugen is not. heck, even Honda has official appliance company that's 100% owned by Honda.

[Ross Stonefeld]

They could do it in-house and save money over the last attempt just by sticking to engines.

[Red17]

Out of curiosity, when does Marrusia's contract run out? I can imagine them really hoping to have a lucky ticket for some Mclaren tech.

[Fatgadget]

You people are all too British. The Honda is for old people cliche only exists in Britain.

The rest of the world thinks of the Civic as one of those tuner cars and Honda as a Japanese brand that produces cars a few steps cooler than Toyota. Toyota make white goods, Honda, Nissan and Subaru make cars. Yes it isn't as cool as a Mercedes, Ferrari or BMW - but it's cooler than Renault.

Ha ha !...Honda Civic also = Rice boy weapon of choice !

Edited by Fatgadget, 12 February 2013 - 14:23.

[Murl]

Ha ha !...Honda Civic also = Rice boy weapon of choice !

I drove an old person's civic one time, to clean out the pipes. Holy rev range! I only got to second gear...

When I think of cars driven by people smelling of must/mothballs, Mercedes is the brand that comes to mind. Something tells me McLaren Race Team don't really care about my perceptions of what it's called, if it has more HP than the other one.

[Gilles4Ever]

Rumour: McLaren bought Cosworth - that is the topic, please keep to it

[ChiltonsCats]

would be interesting if true, kinda feeds into the rumors that were around a while back about them and Mercedes parting ways in future.