Jump to content


Photo
* * - - - 2 votes

Rumour: McLaren has bought Cosworth [split]


  • Please log in to reply
178 replies to this topic

#51 senna da silva

senna da silva
  • Member

  • 4,449 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:35

Yes, and Montezuma has been bitching about the state of F1.

The thing that would be more relevant for both is to get into LMP for 2014 or 2015. Both companies are about moving forward technologically, and F1 hasn't been to keen on doing that anymore.


Whether you like it or not F1 is still the pinnacle of motorsports and the likes of Ferrari and McLaren can't just buy that kind of marketing.

Advertisement

#52 JRizzle86

JRizzle86
  • Member

  • 2,090 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:37

Todays 'Cosworth' no longer has the gravitas of the one of yesteryear.IMO.It's now just a nostalgic name...Best kept there....In the past.


If true i don't think the plan is to buy the name. The plan would be to buy the technology, equipment, personnel and experience. But it is only a rumour.

#53 Baddoer

Baddoer
  • Member

  • 1,505 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:40

Now there is a roumor that James Allen ate a poisoned mushroom

#54 GreenMachine

GreenMachine
  • Member

  • 799 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:44

... Mclaren was founded as a seat for Lewis and he's gone now. ...


:rotfl:

#55 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 11,923 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:47

If this is true, it is most likely about road car engines. The current McLaren road engine is built by Riccardo, but do they have the capacity to scale up the way that McLaren plan to do? But down the line, who knows?

#56 Red17

Red17
  • Member

  • 3,448 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:48

I don't recall mentioning anything about Lewis.

Your sarcasm detector is turned off.

#57 V8 Fireworks

V8 Fireworks
  • Member

  • 5,552 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:52

Makes sense, McLaren have been on the path to in-house engines for a long time.

It will be remarkable to see:
McLaren-McLaren
Force India-McLaren (are FI still going to Ferrari :confused: )

:drunk: :eek:

Quite incredible to have McLaren as engine supplier to other teams!

Is the Cosworth road car division seperate? That would stop us from seeing McLaren Cosworth road car special editions.

#58 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,874 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 07 February 2013 - 21:00

So we've gone to McLaren buying Cosworth, to McLaren making F1 engines, to McLaren supplying other teams. All in a few hours.

#59 gm914

gm914
  • Member

  • 6,046 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 07 February 2013 - 21:05

So we've gone to McLaren buying Cosworth, to McLaren making F1 engines, to McLaren supplying other teams. All in a few hours.

Don't forget McLaren leaving Formula 1 altogether :drunk:


Advertisement

#60 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,874 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 07 February 2013 - 21:07

To supply engines to the breakaway F1 series?

#61 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 07 February 2013 - 21:07

How about Honda bought Cossy, and Mclaren signed contract with Honda for 2014....?
But Cossy is famous for naturally aspirated engine? Looking forward to hear the truth but whole truth shortly...

#62 Mc_Silver

Mc_Silver
  • Member

  • 2,189 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 07 February 2013 - 21:14

It will be remarkable to see:
McLaren-McLaren
Force India-McLaren (are FI still going to Ferrari :confused: )

:drunk: :eek:

Quite incredible to have McLaren as engine supplier to other teams!

Is the Cosworth road car division seperate? That would stop us from seeing McLaren Cosworth road car special editions.


What about Ferrari-McLaren, Red Bull-McLaren :rotfl: :drunk:


#63 Fastcake

Fastcake
  • Member

  • 6,482 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 21:20

Well that would certainly be interesting, if true of course. One would presume that the main reason would be to eventually start constructing their own engines, as they've certainly been moving in that direction.

#64 maverick69

maverick69
  • Member

  • 4,859 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 07 February 2013 - 21:48

What about Ferrari-McLaren, Red Bull-McLaren :rotfl: :drunk:



2007? :lol:

#65 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,432 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 21:55

Technically that was McLaren-Ferrari. ;)

#66 maverick69

maverick69
  • Member

  • 4,859 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 07 February 2013 - 21:58

Technically that was McLaren-Ferrari.;)


:lol:

#67 Talisman

Talisman
  • Member

  • 798 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:14

if Honda were to buy or invest in cosworth, maybe it'd be for facility, in order to use it as maintenance base, i imagine. To operate from tochigi dont make logistics sense, they'd surely need a european base, even just as an engine supplier. all speculation anyway..


Its never stopped them before. In their past three f1 stints all honda engines have been designed and built in japan. They have been sent to a local centre in the UK for sorting out prior to being sent out to the teams, Chiswick in the 60s and I believe Bracknell later on.

McLaren could be interested in Cosworth for its non F1 business, would make sense for their development as a technology provider.

Edited by Talisman, 07 February 2013 - 22:15.


#68 study

study
  • Member

  • 2,452 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:18

Cosworth don't just do engines now, they do all sorts of other engineering stuff.


Yes and No.

I don't know what the situation is now, but Cosworth (race engines) and Cosworth T(technology/engineering) were two seperate arms.

When Cosworth was sold (90s? 2000s?) Ford bought the racing side, Audi the Engineering side.

#69 Burai

Burai
  • Member

  • 1,026 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:21

Todays 'Cosworth' no longer has the gravitas of the one of yesteryear.IMO.It's now just a nostalgic name...Best kept there....In the past.


You could have said the same about McLaren in 1981...

#70 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,874 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:23

Yes and No.

I don't know what the situation is now, but Cosworth (race engines) and Cosworth T(technology/engineering) were two seperate arms.

When Cosworth was sold (90s? 2000s?) Ford bought the racing side, Audi the Engineering side.


The racing bit of Cosworth has expanded by a decent amount into aviation and defense.

#71 study

study
  • Member

  • 2,452 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:25

The racing bit of Cosworth has expanded by a decent amount into aviation and defense.


Probably more lucrative then F1 engines.

Has the Audi cosworth division being sold again or being left to drift, don't hear too much about it nowadays.

#72 Red17

Red17
  • Member

  • 3,448 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:25

Todays 'Cosworth' no longer has the gravitas of the one of yesteryear.IMO.It's now just a nostalgic name...Best kept there....In the past.

Despite the fact they are a shadow of their former selves they can still build an engine, I guess they still have able personel and in theory it's always easier to expand an operation rather than shrink. And there is the Cosworth name itself.

#73 george1981

george1981
  • Member

  • 848 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 23:11

If this is true, it is most likely about road car engines. The current McLaren road engine is built by Riccardo, but do they have the capacity to scale up the way that McLaren plan to do? But down the line, who knows?


I would have thought that if McLaren wanted to expand road car engine production they would be better off by paying Ricardo to expand, buy that part of Ricardo's business and expand it themselves or set up a joint venture with Ricardo.

#74 F1ultimate

F1ultimate
  • Member

  • 2,938 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 23:23

I would have thought that if McLaren wanted to expand road car engine production they would be better off by paying Ricardo to expand, buy that part of Ricardo's business and expand it themselves or set up a joint venture with Ricardo.


Acquiring Coworth is a better deal given that it's a British brand with a british base, thus Mclaren could get a government loan or subsidy to make the acquisition and "generate job" in return for a handout from Westminister. Furthermore Coworth is a well respected brand that even has ties with other engineering industries just like Mclaren themselves. This would also bode well for manufacturing F1 engines under the Cosworth brand and maintain a competitive advantage and secrecy as opposed to being an engine buyer or outsourcing it to Ricardo. There was never been a better case for Mclaren to manufacturer their own road car and racing engines than now - especially with Mercedes having chosen to compete against their customers.

#75 oetzi

oetzi
  • Member

  • 3,049 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 23:24

what if McLaren decided to pull out of F1 altogether at the end of the season?

Apart from McLaren fans and the odd Brit, nobody would notice.


#76 BigCHrome

BigCHrome
  • Member

  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 23:26

If Cosworth were to make F1 engines for them, it would take them until at least 2015 to get it competition ready.

#77 oetzi

oetzi
  • Member

  • 3,049 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 23:27

Are McLaren even Ferrari-sized yet? I'd rather pay for someone else's engine than do my own. A Merc or a Renault has a little bit of factory subsidy in it. Doing it yourself is 100% cost and I don't see McLaren having their own engine driving car sales any more than what they currently have.

It also gives them an out if they lose - our tech's the best, but without the engine blah blah blah

But if they want to make road superdupersupercars, they might have to take the plunge.


#78 oetzi

oetzi
  • Member

  • 3,049 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 23:35

Yep.

And Ford and Cosworth...... and TAG and Porsche........ and sort of Renault and Mecachrome etc......

Ford paid Cosworth to build stuff.

TAG paid Porsche to build stuff.

Mecachrome sold superannuated Renaults.

Edited by oetzi, 07 February 2013 - 23:45.


#79 oetzi

oetzi
  • Member

  • 3,049 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 23:37

What does F1 offer Ferrari? There is your answer.

Oi, Bernie, keep your nose out!

Advertisement

#80 oetzi

oetzi
  • Member

  • 3,049 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 23:40

So we've gone to McLaren buying Cosworth, to McLaren making F1 engines, to McLaren supplying other teams. All in a few hours.

'smazin!

#81 Gagá Bueno

Gagá Bueno
  • Member

  • 360 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 07 February 2013 - 23:40

Has the Audi cosworth division being sold again or being left to drift, don't hear too much about it nowadays.


I think Audi sold it in 2005 to the MAHLE Group and they renamed it as MAHLE Powertrain and are still running the company.

#82 oetzi

oetzi
  • Member

  • 3,049 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 23:42

McLaren could be interested in Cosworth for its non F1 business, would make sense for their development as a technology provider.

More like it.


#83 Amphicar

Amphicar
  • Member

  • 2,005 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 07 February 2013 - 23:49

Acquiring Coworth is a better deal given that it's a British brand with a british base, thus Mclaren could get a government loan or subsidy to make the acquisition and "generate job" in return for a handout from Westminister. Furthermore Coworth is a well respected brand that even has ties with other engineering industries just like Mclaren themselves. This would also bode well for manufacturing F1 engines under the Cosworth brand and maintain a competitive advantage and secrecy as opposed to being an engine buyer or outsourcing it to Ricardo. There was never been a better case for Mclaren to manufacturer their own road car and racing engines than now - especially with Mercedes having chosen to compete against their customers.

Despite the Italian-sounding name, Ricardo is also a British company with a British base (as well as overseas locations in the USA, China, Russia, India and Europe). Founded by Sir Harry Ricardo in 1885, the company is larger and has a longer history than Cosworth and its international reputation and links with other high tech engineering industries are probably superior to Cosworth's.




#84 10e10

10e10
  • Member

  • 825 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 08 February 2013 - 00:05

Ford paid Cosworth to build stuff.

TAG paid Porsche to build stuff.

Mecachrome sold superannuated Renaults.


Doesn't Mecachrome built and still builds Renault's F1 engines?

#85 InSearchOfThe

InSearchOfThe
  • Member

  • 647 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 08 February 2013 - 00:10

Doesn't Mecachrome built and still builds Renault's F1 engines?


Yes. Renault designs, and Meccachrome assembles.

#86 oetzi

oetzi
  • Member

  • 3,049 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 08 February 2013 - 00:10

Doesn't Mecachrome built and still builds Renault's F1 engines?

Fair enough, that's more interesting. Reanault paid Mecachrome to build Renaults, then Mecachrome built Renaults to sell as Mecachromes, and now Mecachrome build Renaults to sell to Lotus (Renault). Or something like that.

The French are good at bureaucracy.

#87 Jimisgod

Jimisgod
  • Member

  • 2,949 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 08 February 2013 - 00:47

Of course the other fun discussion I was kicking around with a few people, was what if McLaren decided to pull out of F1 altogether at the end of the season?


:rotfl: True intellectuals I presume...

#88 packapoo

packapoo
  • Member

  • 731 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 08 February 2013 - 04:29

Would be crazy if true, but highly suspect its just fake rumor.

Doubt McLaren is crazy enough to split from Mercedes engines.....


Cosworth comes back 2010 supplying 4 teams engines, 3 years later they are left with one engine deal.


And why did that happen?
Team 1. Some American fellow was having a w3t dream.
Team 2. Spanish mob fell over - hell they barely got started but that's probably hair splitting.
Team 3. With instant success in their eyes, rushed off to another engine supplier, all for nought 'cause they still sucked.
Team 4. Still in there trying.

#89 packapoo

packapoo
  • Member

  • 731 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 08 February 2013 - 04:35

Cosworth



Please tell us, what is there left to buy?




Charlie


Defence force contracts?

#90 packapoo

packapoo
  • Member

  • 731 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 08 February 2013 - 04:42

Todays 'Cosworth' no longer has the gravitas of the one of yesteryear.IMO.It's now just a nostalgic name...Best kept there....In the past.


Well prior to what......maybe Mercedes fiddling with Ilmor, the same could be said?

The Mercedes board must have tears in their eyes the day they signed on the dotted line for Brawn.
Sorry, getting OT.

#91 V8 Fireworks

V8 Fireworks
  • Member

  • 5,552 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:10

So we've gone to McLaren buying Cosworth, to McLaren making F1 engines, to McLaren supplying other teams. All in a few hours.

Naturally.  ;)

#92 V3TT3L

V3TT3L
  • Member

  • 1,681 posts
  • Joined: November 12

Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:54

McLaren having to find a further 15 million euros (£12m) per annum for the engine and KERS power-boost package to compete in Formula One.

Since McLaren is already a huge motorsport supplyer - ECUs to F1 and NASCAR - maybe it is better to buy Cosworth and sell complete engines.

Mercedes might have created a monster here, since McLaren can snatch customers from them in the future.

The divorce transformed a partner into a bitter competitor. :kiss:


#93 loki

loki
  • Member

  • 2,155 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:19

Apart from McLaren fans and the odd Brit, nobody would notice.


I thought McLaren fans were odd Brits....






:rotfl: :drunk: :wave:


#94 ClubmanGT

ClubmanGT
  • Member

  • 1,279 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:30

Bring on the McLaren Escort Cosworth - I'd buy one if it still has a stupid whale tail

#95 oetzi

oetzi
  • Member

  • 3,049 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:18

I thought McLaren fans were odd Brits....

:rotfl: :drunk: :wave:

:lol:

#96 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:17

McLaren having to find a further 15 million euros (£12m) per annum for the engine and KERS power-boost package to compete in Formula One.

Since McLaren is already a huge motorsport supplyer - ECUs to F1 and NASCAR - maybe it is better to buy Cosworth and sell complete engines.

Mercedes might have created a monster here, since McLaren can snatch customers from them in the future.

The divorce transformed a partner into a bitter competitor. :kiss:


Guess still sport car market will be better suited to do this work, rather than this extreme formula one market. If Mclaren fails to deliver at the day one, their brand will be completely damaged, lose races and they lose Mercedes.
Merc may look at Mclaren to work on technology or two for their road car business on the engine front as well. Just another inspiring technology exchange... Road car engine is so different from Formula One engine in anyways.

#97 JRizzle86

JRizzle86
  • Member

  • 2,090 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:28

Guess still sport car market will be better suited to do this work, rather than this extreme formula one market. If Mclaren fails to deliver at the day one, their brand will be completely damaged, lose races and they lose Mercedes.
Merc may look at Mclaren to work on technology or two for their road car business on the engine front as well. Just another inspiring technology exchange... Road car engine is so different from Formula One engine in anyways.


Cosworth still are more than capable of working in the racing engine market. As long as the engines are tested as required and meet the desired specifications there is no risk to McLaren, but you cannot expect any change to happen overnight. Doubt their brand would be damaged, they have lived through Peugeot engines. Very much doubt Mercedes and McLaren are going to work on tech together in the future. As the SLR proved, McLaren wanted a stripped out lightweight sports car, Mercedes wanted one with defined looks, air con, and an automatic transmission. The mix kinda worked but didn't, at the end of the day it was a compromise. Road car engines may well be different from F1 engines but Cosworth are one of few companies with experience in both.

#98 oetzi

oetzi
  • Member

  • 3,049 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:41

Doubt their brand would be damaged, they have lived through Peugeot engines.

That's the problem, though - if a McLaren engine is a dud, they can't blame a partner. It makes them look bad, not the supplier.


#99 10e10

10e10
  • Member

  • 825 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:57

That's the problem, though - if a McLaren engine is a dud, they can't blame a partner. It makes them look bad, not the supplier.


But McLaren can also hire the brain power to make it work.

Advertisement

#100 Rob

Rob
  • Member

  • 8,273 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:02

That's the problem, though - if a McLaren engine is a dud, they can't blame a partner. It makes them look bad, not the supplier.

Ferrari have been fine with that. The advantages of bringing the engines in-house would probably negate any disadvantages.