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rally NEEDS fierce cars again


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#151 BRG

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 19:24

Rallying to me is amazing drivers driving at breathtaking speeds on narrow, curvy roads with next to no room for error. Pure driving skills.

And in cars that the ordinary person recognises and relates to.

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#152 EightGear

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 19:47

And in cars that the ordinary person recognises and relates to.


Not necesarrily for me.

I remember people saying that DTM is stupid because the cars are too advanced and not looking like their road car etc, and people hail the days of Group A, back when the cars didn't look spectacular, at least
less than the current cars.

Just watch this:


I get filled with adrenaline every time I see it, and I guess there's a reason it has more than 2,5 million views. Not spectacular enough cars...?

Edited by EightGear, 13 February 2013 - 19:50.


#153 Myrvold

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 20:31

I get filled with adrenaline every time I see it, and I guess there's a reason it has more than 2,5 million views. Not spectacular enough cars...?


First year with new cars brought a lot of attention. It have kinda fell down a bit again.

#154 Rinehart

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 17:23

The WRC just isn't temping me at the moment.

I appreciate its hugely immaterial to many, but to me the cars just don't look exciting. They look like their supermarket shuttle siblings with a few stickers on the bonnet.

They're tremendously quick today but they need to pop and bang a bit more and be dripping in pointlessly aggressive bodywork, a la DTM.

They need to be the sort of thing a ten year old boy would want a poster of on the wall. Not sure a Fiesta quite cuts it...


#155 MatsNorway

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 18:03

Most tuned street cars got more hp than a rallycar... im not dissing on the rally cars they stomp most streetcars even on big tracks. But for the shows sake lots of hp is more fun to watch.

Rally is a nishe product. I think it explains some of the lack of interest.

In my opinion it sertainly looks spectacular.
http://www.youtube.c...p;v=qyCybw8prq0

RWD is one option. More engine noise is another

a third is to make more options.. say a lighter car if you run only 2WD.. or smaller engine.

I like variation in sound, size, looks and in technicalities. Most do. Thats why time attack and drifting grows alot faster than other types of motorsport. Drifting got a big show factor too.
Fotball fans don`t all cheer for the biggest clubs .. they like the history of one team and stuff like that. Same can happen on motorsport. People will cheer for that one smaller lighter 2WD car trying to do the impossible. I think many fans here would enjoy a new escort like car in full tilt trough the forest.

Edited by MatsNorway, 14 February 2013 - 18:15.


#156 ArnageWRC

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 20:06

It's interesting you mention RWD and a lightweight car. I've often thought about having a top WRC class which is either, 4WD or 2WD.
Have a WRC calendar with an even split between gravel/ Tarmac, plus Monte and Sweden. Allow the 2WD cars more power and lighter weight v the heavier less powerful, but better tractioned 4WD cars.
Remember the F2 cars v the WRCars in 1997-99 on Tarmac? They were some great events, and had the WRC regulars moaning at these pocket rockets.

However, it's just not going to happen. So the dreaming can end.

#157 kosmic33

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 23:51

Which would all lead to performance balancing......

#158 tormave

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:25

In my opinion it sertainly looks spectacular.
http://www.youtube.c...p;v=qyCybw8prq0

What a great video, thanks for sharing! Can someone point out to me the "boring, on rails" WRC cars from this video? Also please don't say the insane drift angles were there just because of snow - the grip level with proper narrow studded rally tyres is comparable with gravel.

The biggest issue with rally is that great video material like this is on Youtube, not in the official TV broadcast. They somehow completely manage to avoid the audience excitement and involvement, the drama of evolving split times, the unbelievable cornering speeds and the visceral experience of the cars screaming past at speed. If NFL Films took care of of a couple WRC broadcasts, rallying would soon be the most popular sport in the world.

#159 piszkosfred

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:43

WRC was very popular in the middle of 90's. What we miss today is competitive drivers and more manufactures. For that WRC needs more cheaper cars.

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#160 svalgis

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:52

the cars are fine. better coverage and marketing is what's needed.

#161 DampMongoose

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:57

the cars are fine. better coverage and marketing is what's needed.


Better coverage and marketing of a sport with cars that very few people find interesting and events that have little or no variation? Sounds like a money spinner, I'd love to watch them pitch that idea... :rotfl:

#162 svalgis

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:19

the cars are fine. events might need some work too.

#163 GeoffR

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:52

Interesting that the Australian Rally Championship has just reverted to 2WD cars for 2013 - FWD or RWD doesn't matter. In fairness they also still conduct a Championship for AWD cars, but THE championship is for 2WD cars this year.

Some interesting cars competing - works Honda Jazz's, Fiesta R2s(?), Renaults Clio R3s, VWs, as well as RWD RX7s & 200SXs. There may be more that I'm not aware of.

Edited by GeoffR, 15 February 2013 - 21:03.


#164 DanardiF1

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 20:42

I think I should just qualify: I don't have a major problem with the way the current crop of WRC cars look. I just feel they need to look more muscular and more 'outrageous'. Bigger wings, more aggressive aero, even if then in response to that visual exaggeration the FIA mandates even more spec or production-based parts.

I'd also be up for limited-run homologation, because a big draw of previous eras was that desirability of the cars competing, which was partly borne from the visual impact of the cars, and the homologation specials that were as rare and expensive as saffron-flavoured gold dust. Those cars were the stuff of dreams for young boys and young-minded men, as they were obviously unavailable to 'mere mortals' but based on the cars they had in their drive.

And as I mentioned earlier, the manufacturers have got a bit lost in what they think is a good marketing 'vehicle' for the cars competing. A Citroen DS3 in my view doesn't make a good rally car because of the market share it's aiming for with it's road version. It's marketed heavily as a female 'accessory' car, much like the Fiat 500. The Ford Fiesta is increasingly heading this way too. BMW can't be arsed with the WRC Mini now, but they should, because the Countryman is the more male-oriented (and sorry female motorsport fans, but men still dominate the motorsport market) car in their range (they offer Cooper versions, 4wd versions etc.). VW market the Polo relatively neutrally, but with that they don't seem to have created an image for the car, something I hope they do off the back of the Polo R (create a 4wd version that looks similar enough to the racer!). Hyundai have the opportunity with their i20 to do something like that too, but probably won't as again the car's image of a safe, boring family runaround doesn't fit alongside the rally car aesthetic.

Edited by DanardiF1, 15 February 2013 - 20:43.


#165 ClubmanGT

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 00:20

WRC was very popular in the middle of 90's. What we miss today is competitive drivers and more manufactures. For that WRC needs more cheaper cars.


It's interesting you say that. Toyota has a track-day version of the 86 which is actually a really interesting move from a marketing point of view. It's also cheaper than the full bells and whistles road option and even then, that's not outrageously priced either.

I'm sure there's a market for small, light AWD hatchbacks provided they can be made cheaply enough. The current crop of WRX/Evos are really about 2x the price they need to be to get traction as road cars. A cheaper homologation model just needs a basic interior, no entertainment system and a basic six speed box and AWD system. They'd sell thousands of them.

#166 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 00:26

Some interesting cars competing - works Honda Jazz's, Fiesta R2s(?), Renaults Clio R3s, VWs, as well as RWD RX7s & 200SXs. There may be more that I'm not aware of.


Monkhouse to take the title.

#167 MatsNorway

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 00:28

Rally cars are plenty fast today. i say give the drivers a H pattern gearbox and noisier engines.

http://www.youtube.c...re=results_main

#168 BigCHrome

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 02:47

One definite issue that I have with the WRC is the lack of competition. It seems like anyone not named Seb can't keep it on the road in consecutive races.

#169 tormave

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:25

One definite issue that I have with the WRC is the lack of competition. It seems like anyone not named Seb can't keep it on the road in consecutive races.

If you watch the Sweden highlights, both the Sebs slipped off the road too a few times. They were just lucky not to get stuck on a snow bank or skilled enough to miss the entry speed by small enough margin. Probably a bit of both. Ă–stberg would've been pretty close to Ogier too without a coolant pipe coming off under the bonnet of his Fiesta in the beginning.

#170 MrFondue

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:28

Better coverage and marketing of a sport with cars that very few people find interesting and events that have little or no variation? Sounds like a money spinner, I'd love to watch them pitch that idea... :rotfl:


You do know that most of the rallies have better turnouts than any F1 event, don't you?

#171 EightGear

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:11

You do know that most of the rallies have better turnouts than any F1 event, don't you?


Argentina had close to a million spectators not too long ago.

#172 DampMongoose

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 21:37

You do know that most of the rallies have better turnouts than any F1 event, don't you?


Live figures don't mean much nowadays, I'd expect them to be higher, F1 has priced out most fans and is limited to a closed circuit, where you can no longer watch from close range due to the neutered circuits and huge safety margins. It's like comparing the Tour de France turnout with the velodrome events...

What's the global TV audience for F1 compared to Rally? If that's higher then I concede the point but in the grand scheme of it, Rally has nothing like the appeal it used to and even a former rally fan like myself couldn't care less at the moment, I don't like that but it's true! Nothing against rallying I think it's up there as the best test of a driver there is, but currently it's dull as ditchwater!

Edited by DampMongoose, 16 February 2013 - 21:43.


#173 svalgis

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 21:50

global tv audience for rally is poor, thanks to terrible coverage and marketing.

#174 ApexMouse

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 00:25

Makes perfect sense to me.

Edited to remove the advocation of scientifically applied kinitec energy induced injury. :D

Edited by ApexMouse, 17 February 2013 - 00:29.


#175 tormave

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 07:37

I'm sure there's a market for small, light AWD hatchbacks provided they can be made cheaply enough. The current crop of WRX/Evos are really about 2x the price they need to be to get traction as road cars. A cheaper homologation model just needs a basic interior, no entertainment system and a basic six speed box and AWD system. They'd sell thousands of them.

There are a couple of such cars already: Fiat Panda 4x4 and Suzuki SX4 4x4. I'm sure this big market you refer to doesn't exist - if it did, the manufacturers would've filled it already. Also, 4WD tech is not cheap and the cheaper the car, the harder the extra bill of material cost becomes to assimilate which is why it still tends to be a top-of-the-range option. I live in a country with long and cold winters and yet most people buy their Audis without Quattro.

The tightening regulations regarding emissions will also make such cars near impossible to make in the very near future.

#176 ClubmanGT

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 08:32

There are a couple of such cars already: Fiat Panda 4x4 and Suzuki SX4 4x4. I'm sure this big market you refer to doesn't exist - if it did, the manufacturers would've filled it already. Also, 4WD tech is not cheap and the cheaper the car, the harder the extra bill of material cost becomes to assimilate which is why it still tends to be a top-of-the-range option. I live in a country with long and cold winters and yet most people buy their Audis without Quattro.

The tightening regulations regarding emissions will also make such cars near impossible to make in the very near future.


Both the road going versions of the Panda and SX4 are tall and boxy and can hardly be called derivatives of their respective rallying programs like the Escort, Impreza or Evo could be.

Regardless, it will be interesting to see how the 86 GT track car sells for Toyota.

#177 Alolnso

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 21:09

I also think the cars got really boring. But I don't think we need to go back to Group B type cars. A modern car with 500 or 600hp would be a disaster waiting to happen.

2WD can offer plenty of spectacle and it would also be easier for manufacturers to build road going cars that resemble their rally cars. It will probably get more people to the showrooms.

Examples:



These cars wouldn't do the graceful drifts of a modern WRC on gravel. The solution would be easy: more tarmac rallies. This has the nice side effect that people will see those cars race on a surface that everyone with a driving license experienced.