23 replies to this topic

[10e10]

I don't know if this happened in the history of F1, but if a driver is WDC, but runs for two teams during the season, which team is credited with the WDC?

[Ravenak]

None. The WDC crowns the driver, not the team.

What Red Bull or Renault have done in the past years (show the WDC title as theirs) is just publicity.

[10e10]

None. The WDC crowns the driver, not the team.

What Red Bull or Renault have done in the past years (show the WDC title as theirs) is just publicity.

Don't all teams do that? Like McLaren saying they have 12 WDC and Ferrari 15.

[Ravenak]

Don't all teams do that? Like McLaren saying they have 12 WDC and Ferrari 15.

Well, they can say what they want. It's like when Briatore says he has won X WDC titles. Nothing is awarded, it's a way of saying.

[garoidb]

I don't know if this happened in the history of F1, but if a driver is WDC, but runs for two teams during the season, which team is credited with the WDC?

Fangio won the 1954 title using a Maserati for part of the season and a Mercedes for the rest of it.

Edited by garoidb, 10 February 2013 - 21:31.

[10e10]

Well, they can say what they want. It's like when Briatore says he has won X WDC titles. Nothing is awarded, it's a way of saying.

I know they are not "awarded" but it's said even by the media that the team has won X WDCs. Like McLaren's last title is refered to be Lewis' WDC from 2008.

[Ravenak]

There, you said it: "McLaren's last title is refered to be"

[Victor]

Of course the teams have the right to list the divers that have become WDC at the wheel of their cars. The teams are not awarded a cup for that but they obviously get prestige.
Mercedes and Maserati can rightfully share Fangio's 1954 title, as he got points with both cars.
The opposite is also true: drivers can obviously claim their share of glory for helping a team to get the WCC. Massa was never a WDC but his results were necessary for Ferrari to get the 2006, 2007 and 2008 titles, so he has the right to be proud of that achievement.

[10e10]

Of course the teams have the right to list the divers that have become WDC at the wheel of their cars. The teams are not awarded a cup for that but they obviously get prestige.
Mercedes and Maserati can rightfully share Fangio's 1954 title, as he got points with both cars.
The opposite is also true: drivers can obviously claim their share of glory for helping a team to get the WCC. Massa was never a WDC but his results were necessary for Ferrari to get the 2006, 2007 and 2008 titles, so he has the right to be proud of that achievement.

What confuses me then, is why they celebrate the WDC so much? The way McLaren did in 2008 and the way Ferrari didn't since they won the WCC.

[Victor]

What confuses me then, is why they celebrate the WDC so much? The way McLaren did in 2008 and the way Ferrari didn't since they won the WCC.

Probably because at the eyes of the public the WDC is what really matters.

[10e10]

Probably because at the eyes of the public the WDC is what really matters.

Based on their celebrations it matters to them as well.

[William Hunt]

I don't know if this happened in the history of F1, but if a driver is WDC, but runs for two teams during the season, which team is credited with the WDC?

Yes this has happened before, in 1954 Juan-Manuel Fangio drove the first races for Maserati (because the Mercedes car wasn't ready yet) and then switched to Mercedes. He even won the first 2 GP of the season for Maserati, afterwards he still won 3 World Championship GP's for Mercedes that year.

But it doesn't really matter for the team because the driver championship is allocated to the driver (not the team!) and the constructor championship to the team.

[Ravenak]

Probably because at the eyes of the public the WDC is what really matters.

Indeed, the WDC has a more powerful commercial value and it's more honorable... just because it is!

It's a drivers championship, not a constructors championship. The fact that the WCC didn't exist at the beginning of the Formula 1 Championship is no coincidence.

[showtime]

If you are driving for McLaren you can't keep your own GP trophies and you expect them not to count the WDC as theirs?

[Ravenak]

I guess they are the exception that proves the rule

Edited by Ravenak, 10 February 2013 - 22:55.

[scheivlak]

If you are driving for McLaren you can't keep your own GP trophies and you expect them not to count the WDC as theirs?

Well, didn't Martin Whitmarsh say last year something like that their main objective was just winning races?

[MoebiusPT]

Yes this has happened before, in 1954 Juan-Manuel Fangio drove the first races for Maserati (because the Mercedes car wasn't ready yet) and then switched to Mercedes. He even won the first 2 GP of the season for Maserati, afterwards he still won 3 World Championship GP's for Mercedes that year.

But it doesn't really matter for the team because the driver championship is allocated to the driver (not the team!) and the constructor championship to the team.

Also, in 1954 there was no WCC, that specific championship only begun on 1958.

Of course teams celebrate the WDC as much as the WCC, no driver will win the WCC without the support of a great team, and like wise no team will win the WCC without the support of their driver(s).

[Zippel]

Fangio won the 1954 title using a Maserati for part of the season and a Mercedes for the rest of it.

Trying to think of another situation in the modern era where this could have happened, like AJ Allmendinger in Champ Car 2006....

The closest I can think of is if the FIA had decided to ban Benetton from the 94 championship for that fuel filter thing and not Schumacher, thus forcing him to join another team, possibly Ligier (which Briatore had recently taken control of), for the rest of 94. Even in that situation it's unlikely Schumacher would have continued the momentum of clinching the title in a slower car he was unfamilar with.

Another one is Senna if he had gotten his way and eventually joined Williams sometime in 93, or even another team if they were competitive with Williams, as he only had a race by race contract with McLaren for a while there.

[boldhakka]

What confuses me then, is why they celebrate the WDC so much? The way McLaren did in 2008 and the way Ferrari didn't since they won the WCC.

The teams have made it their own, with the well wishes of drivers, the media, and the fans. It's a good thing, since all incentives are aligned.

[mattferg]

Of course the teams have the right to list the divers that have become WDC at the wheel of their cars. The teams are not awarded a cup for that but they obviously get prestige.
Mercedes and Maserati can rightfully share Fangio's 1954 title, as he got points with both cars.
The opposite is also true: drivers can obviously claim their share of glory for helping a team to get the WCC. Massa was never a WDC but his results were necessary for Ferrari to get the 2006, 2007 and 2008 titles, so he has the right to be proud of that achievement.

Ferrari didn't win either championship/title in 2006...

[PorcupineTroy]

Pete Aron did it with BRM and Yamura once.

[gm914]

Pete Aron did it with BRM and Yamura once.

Of all the triangles in that film, that one was the most tolerable.

[MLC]

Pete Aron did it with BRM and Yamura once.

But he didn't score any points in the BRM that year. Jordan sacked him after Pete crashed in the opening race of the season.

[Kingshark]

Even if either Lotus or McLaren have the fastest car, it wont matter, since neither teams have a driver who can fulfill its whole potential

The proud moment when you are quoted in a signature.

That being said, as previously stated, Fangio did win 1954 with two different cars -- Maserati and Mercedes.