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Data Recorder mandated by US Gov. by Sept. 1, 2014


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#101 Kelpiecross

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 05:40

Can't wait to get your views on the moon landings. Ok, not really.


The moon landings never happened and that Russian meteor was caused by Global Warming.

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#102 Canuck

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 06:20

And meat-eaters.

#103 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 08:34

Setting speed limits too slow merely encourages me to break the law every day for minutes or hours at a time. Strangely this is tolerated by society and the courts, Yet if I were to break one of their other laws, say a slight case of murder, everyone would get hot under the collar.

The law is an ass, and the people making the law have made it that way.More fool us for voting them in.

Agreed, but we often have no real choice in who we vote for. We are forced to vote for politicians, but have no real choice of who they are.
Though the motorist is public enemy no1 these days. Here in SA we had outspoken idiots for Premier and Attorney General. Neither who even drive!

#104 Magoo

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:48

My post is not "my view", it's reality, is it not?


No, your post is not reality. People are not "sheeple" and there is no commonality between airbag modules and the Argus surveillance system.


Insofar as EDRs and privacy are concerned, this is a very silly discussion. Here are the facts and history regarding event data recorders in motor vehicles, as posted earlier. Maybe I should keep posting it until folks read it.


http://www.nhtsa.gov...search Web site



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#105 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 13:34

No, your post is not reality. People are not "sheeple" and there is no commonality between airbag modules and the Argus surveillance system.



I didn't say anything about airbag modules.

Law enforcement already have no problems using whatever technology they're allowed to use. Police departments already use drones, and have no problems with any kind of invasive action. The black boxes are already used in traffic investigations, and many people are lobbying to give the ability to law enforcement to be able to remotely shut off a vehicle. We have video cameras watching us drive everywhere already, taking pictures of cars at red lights - why would they not want to use this technology as well?

The mindset that they *wouldn't* is why people are behaving as sheep. 20 years ago, during the Cold War, if you had told Joe America "one day there will be video cameras watching you drive everywhere in town, and just about anywhere you walk in public" he would make a crack about Communist Russia and Orwell. "Never happen here!". Yet, here we are. Sheeple.


#106 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 13:46

It's amazing in my 45 years of life, to see how fast in the U.S. we've gone from a scaredy-cat anti-totalitarian Commie-fearing nation, to one that just listens to the propaganda on the radio while hoping the line at the local goods store isn't long. Milk sometimes doesn't show up, but we're too blinded by the News Speak on the shiny flat panel LCDs hawking fructose junk food in the aisles to notice.

When I leave to go to work, I have about a 1/4 mile through my neighborhood that still doesn't have surveillance cameras on it, before I'm picked up by the cameras at the first main intersection. For the next 20 minutes of my commute, my car is covered by the cameras all the way until the last 250 feet or so at my office.

*We're on frakking surveillance cameras almost 24/7* here, and nobody seems to care. The philosophy of "nobody is being hurt by it, and it's anonymous while preventing crime" has no boundaries.



#107 Magoo

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 14:02

I didn't say anything about airbag modules.


The airbag module IS the event data recorder. There is no conspiracy. The NHTSA program is only piggybacking on the OE technology that enabled airbags in the first place.


When you design and construct a device that will successfully operate an inflatable passive restraint system, you have an EDR. The cars have had this capability for decades. The NHTSA is only standardizing the data parameters and delivery-- democratizing the info, if you will.

You know who owns the crash data on your car? You do. Nobody can take it from you without a court order.

Edited by Magoo, 17 February 2013 - 14:13.


#108 Magoo

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 14:42

Do airline pilots or cruise ship captains have a right to privacy in the operation of their vehicles? Of course not. They have every right to due process under the law, of course, but no special right to privacy.

When you drive your car on the public roads, how are you any different?

#109 meb58

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 15:16

Often, society demands relief from some threat...sensible to my way of thinking. But when the method(s) of relief are used for suspect purposes, broad scale surveillance for example, the potential implications to freedom become obvious. And the scary part is, that a single incident can be sparked by an authoritative figure having a bad donut day. And when the accused becomes rightfully indignant, the accused certifies the ulterior motive and the scope of sheep watching grows.


It's amazing in my 45 years of life, to see how fast in the U.S. we've gone from a scaredy-cat anti-totalitarian Commie-fearing nation, to one that just listens to the propaganda on the radio while hoping the line at the local goods store isn't long. Milk sometimes doesn't show up, but we're too blinded by the News Speak on the shiny flat panel LCDs hawking fructose junk food in the aisles to notice.

When I leave to go to work, I have about a 1/4 mile through my neighborhood that still doesn't have surveillance cameras on it, before I'm picked up by the cameras at the first main intersection. For the next 20 minutes of my commute, my car is covered by the cameras all the way until the last 250 feet or so at my office.

*We're on frakking surveillance cameras almost 24/7* here, and nobody seems to care. The philosophy of "nobody is being hurt by it, and it's anonymous while preventing crime" has no boundaries.



#110 desmo

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 15:29

This seems positively trivial compared to the US government routinely sending everything you do online--including putatively fully private communications--through sniffers at all major communication nodes searching for... well we aren't sure. Because Muslims and hippies and commies. Or something.

#111 desmo

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 15:46

Yes I do, since this is a 1st Amendment principle. But you fail to appreciate that even if I wanted to prevent you from posting your opinions regarding such a political subject, I have no power to prevent you from doing so. I am grateful that the forum moderators are so supportive of free speech principles that they have not flagged the posts, even though they are way OT. Internet forums like this are one of the most fundamental examples of free speech rights.


As far as I am concerned you collectively have the right to say pretty much anything you like here--provided it doesn't unduly annoy the other users or disrupt polite discourse.


#112 carlt

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 16:47

As far as I am concerned you collectively have the right to say pretty much anything you like here--provided it doesn't unduly annoy the other users or disrupt polite discourse.


That is just so annoying !

#113 Magoo

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 17:39

We have to separate personal privacy, for example in your home or on your person, from privacy in driving on public roads. They involve totally different standards. There is no presumption of privacy in one's driving practices. When you speed or run a stop sign, everyone who happens to be there can see you doing it.

#114 Tony Matthews

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 18:03

That is just so annoying !

Yep, damned Liberals. I demand restrictions to rail against.

#115 Bloggsworth

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 14:10

When I was meching for a friend at a time when saloon car racing was much more dangerous than it is now, with few roll cages and flimsy shells, I saw a Ford Anglia cartwheeling and rolling down the Silverstone pit straight. It was a biggie, but fortunately not fatal


I was there that day, awaiting the start of the Clubman's race, women were crying, certain that the driver had died. I feel naked without a seatbelt nowadays, can't imagine why, given the choice, people don't wear them on the spurious grounds of the personal freedom to be dead...

#116 meb58

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 15:35

It's a form of natural selection...

I was there that day, awaiting the start of the Clubman's race, women were crying, certain that the driver had died. I feel naked without a seatbelt nowadays, can't imagine why, given the choice, people don't wear them on the spurious grounds of the personal freedom to be dead...



#117 MatsNorway

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 18:16

Don`t stop natural evolution.. you will stop the human progress.. or slow it down. if sound and possible give options not absolutes.

Lots of "good" things are done in empaty etc, overlooking the long term effects.

Look at dog breeding.. lots of shitty dog species that are in pain more often than others. if i where God for a day now.. some wouldn`t look the same tomorrow.. perhaps not even being in existence. And i love english bulldogs. coolest dogs ever.

Edited by MatsNorway, 18 February 2013 - 18:17.


#118 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 22:46

Hah, not where I live. Too good of a source of revenue.

Nothing wrong with that, as long as the practice is consistent and well-known. It's much more problematic when the de facto speed limit is 10-15 mph over what is posted, because then almost every driver on the road is at the mercy of traffic police, and can't realistically defend against a conviction.

Edited by Dmitriy_Guller, 18 February 2013 - 22:47.


#119 bigleagueslider

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:50

There is no significant collusion. The auto manufacturers installed these things so they could gather data when the cars were brought in for service, and so they could have data to refute certain warranty claims. Insurance companies also wanted the data for litigation, which is a contentious topic of discussion. Some insurance companies, like Progressive, encourage drivers to use a black box in their own vehicles to help them earn discounts (or reject a claim).

Your allegations of collusion and conspiracy suggest a competent bureaucracy. No such bureaucracy exists. The government is a decade late to the party, and upon discovering that one of the major lobbyists isn't getting the booze and hookers he wants, the government is naturally interested in changing the rules of the party.


While I agree that the auto OEMs led the way with data recording systems in order to protect their financial interests regarding warranty costs and crash liability costs, the new data recording devices mandated by the NHTSA and DOT are mostly about putting in place a mechanism for calculating new sources of federal revenue based on vehicle mileage. As the amount of annual federal fuel excise tax revenue declines each year due to improving fuel economy and increased use of electric drivetrains, the feds need some way to make up for the drop in revenues.

There are lots of examples of data recording systems being used on autos in the US. Car rental companies have been using GPS systems to record the location and travel speeds of rental cars. And they will add a penalty to your bill if you exceed the speed limit while driving your rental car. Auto finance/lease companies also require the car to have a GPS locator device so that they can repossess the car if you fail to make payments.

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#120 Magoo

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:24



#121 uhclem

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 19:18

Driver's licenses, motorcycle helmets. Where will it all end?


:up: