24 replies to this topic

[Barry Boor]

My first visit to this area of TNF is to ask a technical question about the above cars.

I have a 43rd scale diecast model of one of these 1960 F.1 failures but the carburettor intakes on the right hand side of the model are simply four pipes printed onto a piece of paper which appears to be stuck to the side of the engine cover. This is then covered by an open-ended clear bubble, not dissimilar to that used on the rear-engined car that Ginther drove at Monaco (although the Cooper's engine appears to be a 4-cylinder unit.)

So my question is, can anyone confirm the angle that these intakes were actually set at?

I have Googled images but all I seem to get are photographs of the model that I already have. This search has included Cooper Ferrari, of course.

[AntonyC]

My first visit to this area of TNF is to ask a technical question about the above cars.

I have a 43rd scale diecast model of one of these 1960 F.1 failures but the carburettor intakes on the right hand side of the model are simply four pipes printed onto a piece of paper which appears to be stuck to the side of the engine cover. This is then covered by an open-ended clear bubble, not dissimilar to that used on the rear-engined car that Ginther drove at Monaco (although the Cooper's engine appears to be a 4-cylinder unit.)

So my question is, can anyone confirm the angle that these intakes were actually set at?

I have Googled images but all I seem to get are photographs of the model that I already have. This search has included Cooper Ferrari, of course.

THere are some good pix of these two cars on pp 98/99 and 110/111 in the book "Cabianca" by Danilo Castellarin published by Cortellaverona
where you can see close up the air intakes which are long scoops , clear perspex flat top . Hope this helps.

[Barry Boor]

As I have no access to that book, can you tell me at what angle the long scoops come out of the body, please?

[Tim Murray]

Here are some recent photos of a Cooper Castellotti:

http://www.gtdreams....C...t=1&lang=en

This one shows the intake trumpets nicely:

http://1.2.3.12/bmi/...le2009_0597.jpg

This car is described as F2/13/60, which is the car Munaron drove in the 1960 Italian GP.

[Barry Boor]

The car in that first picture is, to me, a real oddity. Certainly nothing ever ran in 1960 looking like that. However, the installation of the engine might be as with the original 1960 cars, in which case my quest is at an end. But is it?

Sadly the second image will not open.

[Tim Murray]

If you can open the first link, Barry, you can scroll through the photos using the 'PREVIOUS' and 'NEXT' buttons on the left of the photos, and you should eventually reach the second photo.

Here's another page on the cars:

http://www.galeriede...oper-conrero-f1

with this one appearing to show Munaron in the 1960 Italian GP:

http://www.galeriede...-Conrero-30.JPG

[Barry Boor]

There you are - it IS different.

One of the pictures from that first page - a b&w one with car #20 - shows a completely different installation of the engine ith the intakes still more or less straight up, which would tend to make the paper sticker on my Brumm model be reasonably accurate.

Thanks for that, Tim.

[Roger Clark]

Several of the pictures in the Damiers Gallery show 1961 Alfa-engined cars, not the Cooper Castellotti. The installation of the Ferrari engine is shown in image 24, eighth row, third column. The size of the engine made it impossible to fit the usual side-draught Webers.

[Macca]

Here are a couple of rough scans from an article from Cavallino no.68





Paul M

[Bjorn Kjer]

Thanks for the links and pictures. As far as I am concerned a Cooper Castellotti had nothing to do with a Cooper Conrero.

[Barry Boor]

Correct.

[Barry Boor]

Five months later and at last.....

[Barry Boor]

By the way, an oddity about these cars is that they never had a number roundel on the exhaust side of the car. I wonder why.

[Bjorn Kjer]

Wrong Barry , they did.

[Barry Boor]

At Monza?

[Macca]

Yes, the #2 car did, at the very rear on the left side.

http://imageshack.us...cacoopert5.jpg/

Paul M

[Barry Boor]

O.k. I wonder why Quartzo left it off their model. But then, they had the exhaust system completely wrong, too.

[Bjorn Kjer]

And the 2 cars , though Coopers , did not look identical.

[David McKinney]

Are you basing that assumption on the so-called Cooper-Castellotti that has appeared in recent years?

[Barry Boor]

Well, Bjorn, my two exhaust systems look different as well. All bent by hand, I find it practically impossible to replicate exactly things like that.

No David, I have some pictures of the car/s from 1960. In the three-quarter view of the #2 car at Monza I just couldn't see the roundel, but it is a poorish quality picture. Then when I looked at my Quartzo model and saw no roundel on that, I put two and two together and got something other than four.

I'm not familiar with the car that has appeared in recent years. You aren't talking about that green, Alfa-powered thing, are you?

[Bjorn Kjer]

David , if you meant me ,I am basing nothing on "so called" models , but only on Pictures from the real time. The green "thing" is /was a Conrero WHO made some 1 off's , but to my knowlewdge was never running in F1 races , but in hillclimbs , libre etc.

Barry , I was in fact thinking of the exhausts , but according to the Black Books , the second car did not have a chassis number at first. And I do have a Picture showing both from behind where you some difference. But mail me , and I will send my Pictures if you like. Your cars look fine as ever , and in your scale at least you can do the exhausts! Ha-ha.

Edited by Bjorn Kjer, 10 August 2013 - 09:36.

[David McKinney]

Put it down to advancing senility, but I thought I'd seen a recently-taken picture of a so-called Cooper-Castellotti, of questionable heritage

[D-Type]

Thanks for the links and pictures. As far as I am concerned a Cooper Castellotti had nothing to do with a Cooper Conrero.

But it does.  The 1961 Cooper-Conrero used the chassis from one of the 1960 Cooper-Castellotti cars. 

 

Put it down to advancing senility, but I thought I'd seen a recently-taken picture of a so-called Cooper-Castellotti, of questionable heritage

 

I think what you may have seen are pictures of a Cooper with an Alfa Romeo engine (possibly Conrero modified) that claims to be a restoration of the 1961 Cooper-Conrero, which had previously been a Cooper-Castellotti.  A little bit of sloppy captioning of recycled pictures adds to the confusion with what originally read something like "restored Cooper-Conrero, formerly a Cooper-Castellotti" becoming "a restored Cooper-Castellotti" and it goes on from there.
 

[Peter Morley]

Put it down to advancing senility, but I thought I'd seen a recently-taken picture of a so-called Cooper-Castellotti, of questionable heritage

 

Could it be this car?

http://www.galeriede...oper-conrero-f1

[David McKinney]

Yes, I suspect that's what I was thinking of

But I have yet to see any contemporary evidence connecting a Cooper-Castellotti with the Cooper-Conrero