123 replies to this topic

[Owen]

Another topic for discussion while we wait for the F1 season to start...
And no, this is not about processed meat or beef burgers.

Which team or driver is the dark horse for 2013 in the F1 world? If indeed there is one.

As a reminder;

A dark horse is a little-known person or thing that emerges to prominence, especially in a competition of some sort or a contestant that seems unlikely to succeed.

Your thoughts appreciated as always. Any tips?

[ApexMouse]

Grosjean, if he stops crashing and polishes the race runs a bit.
Hulkenberg and Sauber.
Felipe Massa.

[jonpollak]

Jules...
If he gets the gig.
Jp

[BullHead]

Force India are a dark horse team, albeit a long term dark horse. Their progress is slow, but steady and marching. Jerez was indicative of this continuing. 6th or 5th for 2013 WCC?

[antifozy]

I would second Grosjean and Massa.
This year, even Lewis could be considered a dark horse considering Mercs track record from last two years.

[showtime]

I wouldn't consider Massa a dark horse. He should be performing much better, his last seasons are disappointing so if he performs well it would be a return to normality.
I expect Maldonado and Grosjean to get more points but it will be more of a normal learning process than an unexpected improvement (both have already proved to be fast).
I rate Bianchi quite high and he has a lot of doubters. He may not be the most consistent driver but I'm sure he could get to the podium if the FI is at the level of last season's Sauber or Williams. He would be my choice.

[KavB]

I don't know if they can be considered a dark horse after their 2012 season but I think Lotus will be regular winners this year.

Force India will bounce back from a fairly underwhelming 2012.

[HoldenRT]

Lotus? Could they be a title contender?

[Wander]

There is no dark horse.

[Shiroo]

Well Dark Horse would need to be someone who was far behind last season, or didn't score anything big. Lotus doesn't fit that well (in the end Kimi was 3rd). If we can mention anyone it is Mercedes OR Sauber. 1st is unlikely, 2nd I have no idea

[ed24f1]

I would say Hulkenberg.

[BoschKurve]

I'd keep an eye out for Sauber in 2013. They potentially have a very, very good car.

[William Hunt]

Hülkenberg, Grosjean, Bianchi

[RealRacing]

Very difficult to have a dark horse in F1, especially in a season with no major changes. Best rookie, best driver outside a top team and most improved car could be better terms. My opinion on those: don´t care, Hulk and Hamilton and Sauber.

[SCUDmissile]

Gutierrez, Bottas. Marussia maybe.
I have my doubts on Force India. They always seem to have such good preseasons then their real pace is a little less than expected.

[weareracing]

Looking for a STRONG 2013 from Lotus, Williams, Sauber and Mercedes from one or both drivers.
It would be such a buzz to break the season stranglehold of Red Bull (kudos for BEING No.1), Ferrari (STOP teasing Fernando with 2nd place in the WDC) and McLaren (WHERE will they qualify?)
Really looking forward to this season, hard to hold back for the season opener in Melbourne

[Wander]

Well Dark Horse would need to be someone who was far behind last season, or didn't score anything big. Lotus doesn't fit that well (in the end Kimi was 3rd). If we can mention anyone it is Mercedes OR Sauber. 1st is unlikely, 2nd I have no idea

Well, actually the term "dark horse" would be better suited for someone of whom we don't really have any knowledge of (and thus making it hard to have any expectations of success). Kimi was probably that last year as he had been away from the sport and nobody knew how he was going to fare in his come-back.

This year the closest we have to that is someone like Perez, of whom we don't really know how good he is going to be in a top car. Then you could consider some of the rookies, but I don't really consider them as threats at this point. We'll see in Australia.

Edited by Wander, 14 February 2013 - 00:38.

[Grundle]

I believe one of Hulkenberg and grosjean will put up a half-serious title challenge.

[Mendel]

The other Force India driver that is still unannounced a day before the season starts but will still win the first 3 races.

[Meanbeakin]

I'm gonna say Mark Webber simply out of hope (As I do every year).

Hulkenberg looks strong though no doubt.

[Jimisgod]

Hulkenberg, Ricciardo.

Grosjean only if you mean the horse that needs to be put out to stud.

[RJL]

Kimi Raikkonen is my dark horse. Unlikely, but not entirely out of the question.

[Alfisti]

Lotus? Could they be a title contender?

No. they just don't have the budget, i'll eat my hat of they get up.

[ChiltonsCats]

Di Resta/Force India, despite all the rumors around the team the car looked decent enough in Jerez, might surprise a few people and Di Resta on his day isn't a bad driver at all.

toward the back, Chilton to do well in qualifying for Marussia, not sure about the races though but be great to see him and the Caterhams score points at last.

[Kingshark]

Grosjean only if you mean the horse that needs to be put out to stud.

A dark horse in the sense of that he could beat Raikkonen next year. Who knows. He had the pace, just not the consistency.

My pick is Perez. No one seems to rate him too much, predicting that Button will have him easily; but dare I say it, I could see him put up a serious title challenge if the Mclaren is as quick as it was last year, minus the dreadful reliability.

[ChiltonsCats]

I believe one of Hulkenberg and grosjean will put up a half-serious title challenge.

Hulkenberg might...but not in 2013 in a Sauber, that would be just insane, can't see it happening if im honest, he might get a podium or two though.

Grosjean...I can see him maybe getting a pole or two if the field is close...but I don't know about winning any races.

[Rybo]

Both Nico's and Hamilton. Even if Sauber have just maintained their performance relative to the top teams Hulk will continue to impress, and if the Merc is halfway decent consistently I expect both Rosberg and Hamilton to ruin a few of Webber, Massa, and Perez's weekends.

[MarileneRiddle]

Felipe Massa is my dark horse for the WDC. Toro Rosso my dark horse for a strong WCC performance.

[Jimisgod]

A dark horse in the sense of that he could beat Raikkonen next year. Who knows. He had the pace, just not the consistency.

Romain will never get close to Kimi. End of last year showed it. Kimi was consistent and a winner in a car that fell behind in development. Grosjean was just crashing again.

Romain will crash his way to retirement, but I agree Perez will probably match Button by the end of this year.

[smoothcrim]

Webber again!He has been the dark horse since 2010,he deserves another year i think.

[loki0420]

Perez!

[Kingshark]

Romain will never get close to Kimi. End of last year showed it. Kimi was consistent and a winner in a car that fell behind in development. Grosjean was just crashing again.

Romain will crash his way to retirement, but I agree Perez will probably match Button by the end of this year.

Never come close?

I have to say, all this Grosjean baiting on these forums since September last year has slowly made me a fan of him.

So you think that Grosjean never beat, and even occasionally humiliated Raikkonen on raw pace? Because I can think of quite a few occasions.

Fact is, had he not crashed all those times last year, he likely would have finished with a points tally of something like 176 points IIRC.

If he can sort out his racecraft and eliminate the crashes that have hesitated his 2012 season, then I don't see to why he can't challenge Kimi.

[caso]

I'll also go with Perez. During the second part of the season he sometimes misjuged the situation, but
since he was (still is) very young and lacked experience that was to be expected. Without those lapses
and in the (probably) very fast McLaren he could be a contender for the drivers Championship.

[Wander]

Never come close?

I have to say, all this Grosjean baiting on these forums since September last year has slowly made me a fan of him.

That's an interesting way to become a fan of someone.

[OO7]

Ferrari obviously.

[beqa16v]

Dark horse in terms of the championship fight can only be Perez (because he is in a top team) and maybe Grosjean (a very long shot though).
Disregarding the championship fight, I expect Hulkenberg to impress. He definitely has shown glimpses of brilliance and has what it takes to be a star.

[apoka]

Maybe Rosberg if the W04 allows it - he is rated quite highly by insiders, but not known to many who do not follow F1 closely.

[Nonesuch]

Ferrari and Massa could be, but of course it's all guesswork at this point. I expect Red Bull and McLaren to still be the better teams, but Ferrari seems to have made progress, and Massa's late season resurgence in 2012 was quite impressive. I do think it'd be well deserved if he doesn't end up with Brazil 2008 as his last win, so here's hoping for at least one victory for Massa this year.

[7MGTEsup]

I think the last true dark horse we had was Brawn in 2009. Since then nothing has happened that made people say wow I never would have though that would happen. And before that was Hamilton in 07. Would be good to see something like Webber come out the gates really well and consistently be in the top 3 and win the title.

[Disgrace]

Williams. Second year with the new technical team that has already propelled them forward and potentially their strongest driver line-up since Webber/Rosberg.

[swerved]

Lotus? Could they be a title contender?

They sure could

http://twitter.com/N...2452993/photo/1

[bullystoke]

gotta be williams!!

maldonado cant crash as much as he did last year surely!

and bottas will be as impressive a rookie as hulkenberg or perez were when they came in, maybe even a few wins as he is undoubtably better talented than pastor

[DampMongoose]

Very difficult to suggest a 'dark-horse' based on the criteria and the lack of changes in technical regs etc, the closest you might say would be a title contender from Sauber, Force India or Torro Rosso (Caterham and Marrussia wouldn't have a chance) given that they haven't won a race yet, any others would be a natural improvement of a race winning team last year, which wouldn't be particlularly surprising...

Alternatively, a relatively well known mid-field driver like Perez who is not yet a race winner will obviously stand a good chance of being a challenger, given it's likely that he has one of the top 3 cars, but I wouldn't call him a dark horse at all...given that it wouldn't be surprising if he ran well.

"Fernando are you a dark horse for 2013?"

"No"

"So why the long face?"

[jstrains]

There is only one true dark horse and it is the prancing horse...

...but maybe one of the Saubers and Lotuses! (Hulk or Kimi only)

[noikeee]

Not sure Lotus counts as a dark horse but they don't seem to be considered a "top team" by everyone so I'll vote for them. I may be going a little on a wishful thinking wave but I genuinely believe they'll win more than 1 race this year and come closer to the title (though probably Kimi won't really win it).

On the midfield I'm not as enthusiastic as everyone seems to be about the Sauber, haven't seen anything special by them in the Jerez week, same for the Force India, Toro Rosso look to have made a step forward and maybe have caught the two aforementioned teams but certainly have not gone further forward than that. So that leaves Williams as the only really possible dark horse and only on the basis they haven't shown the car yet. But yeah like that guy 2 posts above me is saying, no way can Maldonado continue to crash that much and BOTTAS seems the most promising of the rookies, the team already had a bloody good car last year so it's looking good for them.

[undersquare]

gotta be williams!!

maldonado cant crash as much as he did last year surely!

and bottas will be as impressive a rookie as hulkenberg or perez were when they came in, maybe even a few wins as he is undoubtably better talented than pastor

Yes Bottas would be my pick I think, given that 'dark horse' can't be any obvious contender.

[Dzeidzei]

Yes Bottas would be my pick I think, given that 'dark horse' can't be any obvious contender.

Valtteri, darnit.
Nico and Lewis will be the dark dogs.

[mattferg]

Never come close?

I have to say, all this Grosjean baiting on these forums since September last year has slowly made me a fan of him.

So you think that Grosjean never beat, and even occasionally humiliated Raikkonen on raw pace? Because I can think of quite a few occasions.

Fact is, had he not crashed all those times last year, he likely would have finished with a points tally of something like 176 points IIRC.

If he can sort out his racecraft and eliminate the crashes that have hesitated his 2012 season, then I don't see to why he can't challenge Kimi.

Guys, just ignore kingshark, he's an Alonso troll who hates Kimi. See my signature

[One]

Valtteri, darnit.
Nico and Lewis will be the dark dogs.

[F1ultimate]

Grosjean
He's was the dark horse last year, but for all the wrong reasons.

I think in 2013 he's be the dark horse that will contending for the title.