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Elfin type 600, 600 B, C, D & E


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#51 SJ Lambert

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 13:25

That shot seems to reveal the ribs on the Ford block that would envelope pushrods in a standard 1500 Cortina engine. I don't know whether larger Waggot TC4V engines would have been similarly featured. I imagine that they had no such provision.

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#52 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 13:35

There are photos in RCN of the Waggott 2-litre engine in pieces...

But I'm not about to find them right now. Maybe tomorrow. It was a totally different block.

#53 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:11

I found the article...

It's on P90 of the October 1968 issue of RCN. But that's only with the Ford block, at that time only a 1600 had been built.

There's a full page ad for the engine, with pictures, on P13 of the December 1969 issue, but the pics are too indistinct to reproduce here. However, they do show that the short engine block, which is just the cylinders, there's a separate alloy crankcase in the 2-litre version, has no provision for pushrods, therefore no ribs on the side.

#54 lyntonh

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:29

Warwick Farm November 21-22 1970

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John McCormack 7011

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John Walker 7018...his second 600B

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Garrie Cooper 7012

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GC 7012...esses

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Tony Stewart 6906

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GC 7012

#55 lyntonh

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:38

Formula Fords Warwick Farm 22 November 1970

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Richard Knight FF600 69001, ? in a Bowin, Larry Perkins FF600 70006

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? FF600 ?, LP 70006, David Green Wren, ? FF600 ?

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Same three....different order... &, of course, Lance Ruting

Edited by lyntonh, 26 February 2013 - 10:40.


#56 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 20:35

"New Oakleigh Motors" is the signwriting on No 46...

Is that possibly Phil Webber? If so, 33 is likely Bob Young. This would appear to be during Larry's charge back up through the field after spinning in Creek.

#57 austmcreg

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:39

There were many 600s in Tasmania in the mid to late 1970s, in both F3 1300cc and F2 1600cc form. I do not know the chassis identity of any of them, and would be pleased to be enlightened. The photos are not of the same standard as most on this thread, taken from fairly poor prints, but I will scan the negs one day.
Russell Clark in his early days with 1300cc Corolla engined 600, at Symmons Plains probably about 1975.
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A year or so later at Baskerville, in different colours.
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John Tasker. The nose on this car similar to the Bono car earlier in the thread.
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Alan Simpson. F3 1300cc, Ford from memory.
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Richard Fleming on the hump on Baskerville's back straight, with suspension on full droop.
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Edited by austmcreg, 27 February 2013 - 12:26.


#58 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:33

Do you know what engine's in Fleming's?

One 600 that should never be forgotten is Steve Wiessner's. It started life as a Formula Ford, but he decided to go F3 with it and converted it over.

#59 austmcreg

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:24

Do you know what engine's in Fleming's?

One 600 that should never be forgotten is Steve Wiessner's. It started life as a Formula Ford, but he decided to go F3 with it and converted it over.

Ray, no I dont, other than the sticker on the wing is Ford. I really should have paid a lot more attention to some of the back markers at the time. Most of us had our eyes glued on John Bowe. Always out front, and VERY quick at Baskerville. Already at that stage several leagues ahead of everyone else.

These next two were both originally Formula Ford 600s, Terry Bowe and Steve Chopping. I dont remember Chopping being in the Mazda series races, so I think that may be earlier?

The only Baskerville program I have from that era, December 1973, has John Bowe in the Elfin 600FF which was later developed with wings and slicks for brother Terry. Also listed at that meeting were Pat Stride in Elfin 600c Fiat 1600cc and Geoff Munyard /Duncan Pyper with Elfin Toyota 1598cc. I am fairly sure the latter car was one of the former Repco V8 cars, and last time I saw it, still in Munyard's colours, was at Penrite in Melbourne in 1980s with a Repco V8 being installed.

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#60 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 20:29

Yes. the thing we have to watch when looking at cars in this era is the change of formulae...

FF cars converted to F3 (up to 1300cc by the seventies) would naturally go to the NEW F2 in '77, 1600cc pushrod or SOHC. But cars of the previous ANF2 usually had twin cam engines of 1600cc in the '70s, 1500cc in the '60s. But twin cams all the same.

Pat Stride's engine would have been Fiat 125-based, so it would undoubtedly have been a twin cam. The Munyard car might have been a Toyota twin cam or it might have simply been a pushrod Celica engine.

I hadn't seen the Ford logo on the wing of Fleming's car, so it must be a crossflow pushrod Ford.

#61 lyntonh

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 21:07

Three photos of Don Uebergang at Catalina Park practice 24th January 1970.
Blanden/Catford describe this car in their Elfin book on page 74 (lower left)
as "the one in which Garrie Cooper finished runner up to Walker in 1969."
Being a formula 2 this would make it chassis 6802.

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Interesting to note that he stopped out on the circuit & needed assistance.

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#62 lyntonh

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 21:10

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Gary Rush & Larry Perkins at Oran Park 19th September 1971
LP is in70006, but I can't find a car for Gary Rush in the Elfin book.

#63 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 21:49

Didn't the chassis plate rub off on the fence out of Homestead?

Maybe a spectator got it for a souvenir?

Nice Catalina pics, Lynton, I don't think you've posted many of them...

#64 jcurran

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:07

Yes. the thing we have to watch when looking at cars in this era is the change of formulae...

FF cars converted to F3 (up to 1300cc by the seventies) would naturally go to the NEW F2 in '77, 1600cc pushrod or SOHC. But cars of the previous ANF2 usually had twin cam engines of 1600cc in the '70s, 1500cc in the '60s. But twin cams all the same.

Pat Stride's engine would have been Fiat 125-based, so it would undoubtedly have been a twin cam. The Munyard car might have been a Toyota twin cam or it might have simply been a pushrod Celica engine.

I hadn't seen the Ford logo on the wing of Fleming's car, so it must be a crossflow pushrod Ford.


Munyard's car was 7011, and ran a Hart Twin cam in the mid 70's when he drove it.

Fleming's car started out with a Twin cam , then ran a crossflow after the twin cam had a blow up.

#65 jcurran

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:08

There were many 600s in Tasmania in the mid to late 1970s, in both F3 1300cc and F2 1600cc form. I do not know the chassis identity of any of them, and would be pleased to be enlightened. The photos are not of the same standard as most on this thread, taken from fairly poor prints, but I will scan the negs one day.
Russell Clark in his early days with 1300cc Corolla engined 600, at Symmons Plains probably about 1975.
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A year or so later at Baskerville, in different colours.
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John Tasker. The nose on this car similar to the Bono car earlier in the thread.
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Alan Simpson. F3 1300cc, Ford from memory.
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Richard Fleming on the hump on Baskerville's back straight, with suspension on full droop.
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Clark's car was 6803 and Tasker's car was 6907.

#66 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:31

Looking at the Gold Star entries of 1970 it occurred to me that there was a lot of 600s entered in these races...

Seven out of 16 cars in the Lakeside round, five at Mallala, six out of 19 at Sandown, five out of 13 at Oran Park, I'm not sure about the Hordern Trophy, three mentioned, only 13 entries mentioned though so there could have been more, then in the AGP there was six.

Looking further, in 1969 the most had been three. But at least GC won this race. During the series we'd seen Henk Woelders, Ivan Tighe and Garrie turn out in these cars.

1971 saw Tony Stewart, Gary Campbell, Ivan Tighe, Malcolm Ramsay, John Walker, Clive Millis, Jack Bono, Henk Woelders, Maurie Quincey, Ross Ambrose, Don Uebergang and Garrie Cooper out there at least once. Nine 600s were at the opening round at Lakeside, ten at Oran Park, seven at Surfers, eight at Sandown, six at Symmons Plains and five at Mallala.

Symmons Plains in the wet gave Tony Stewart a victory that matched only that of Leo Geoghegan in the Hordern Trophy in the Lotus 32... 1964?... when a Formula 2 car won a Gold Star race.

In 1972 the entries went into decline as F5000 grew. Tony Maw, Rod Housego, Chris Milton and Larry Perkins added their names to Gold Star entrants in 600s. High point of the year was six runners at Oran Park, with four at Sandown and Surfers, three at Symmons and AIR, just one at the season-closer at Warwick Farm.

It would not occur until the Ralt RT4 years that so many of one make would contest a Gold Star event. It had never happened before, either, the closest as far as I can tell being six Cooper T51s. In AGP entries the 600 scored as high as seven, T51s six, Maserati 250Fs six as well. RT4s got as high as 18 and 19!

#67 Dale Harvey

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:06

[quote name='Ray Bell' date='Feb 28 2013, 08:49' post='6144321']
Didn't the chassis plate rub off on the fence out of Homestead?

Maybe a spectator got it for a souvenir?

I think you will find the car that Gary Rush destroyed at Homestead was a Bowin. Not an Elfin. He had a coming together with KB in the Yellow Submarine.

Dale.

#68 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:38

You could well be right, Dale... in fact I think you are!

I'd forgotten that Rush had a Bowin...

#69 Wirra

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:46

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Gary Rush & Larry Perkins at Oran Park 19th September 1971
LP is in70006, but I can't find a car for Gary Rush in the Elfin book.

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... I can't find a car for Gary Rush in the Elfin book.

I think the Rush car was bought by the Busselmans - but I'm not certain.

Edited by Wirra, 28 February 2013 - 08:54.


#70 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:35

Looking at the Gold Star entries of 1970 it occurred to me that there was a lot of 600s entered in these races...

Seven out of 16 cars in the Lakeside round, five at Mallala, six out of 19 at Sandown, five out of 13 at Oran Park, I'm not sure about the Hordern Trophy, three mentioned, only 13 entries mentioned though so there could have been more, then in the AGP there was six.

Looking further, in 1969 the most had been three. But at least GC won this race. During the series we'd seen Henk Woelders, Ivan Tighe and Garrie turn out in these cars.

1971 saw Tony Stewart, Gary Campbell, Ivan Tighe, Malcolm Ramsay, John Walker, Clive Millis, Jack Bono, Henk Woelders, Maurie Quincey, Ross Ambrose, Don Uebergang and Garrie Cooper out there at least once. Nine 600s were at the opening round at Lakeside, ten at Oran Park, seven at Surfers, eight at Sandown, six at Symmons Plains and five at Mallala.

Symmons Plains in the wet gave Tony Stewart a victory that matched only that of Leo Geoghegan in the Hordern Trophy in the Lotus 32... 1964?... when a Formula 2 car won a Gold Star race.

In 1972 the entries went into decline as F5000 grew. Tony Maw, Rod Housego, Chris Milton and Larry Perkins added their names to Gold Star entrants in 600s. High point of the year was six runners at Oran Park, with four at Sandown and Surfers, three at Symmons and AIR, just one at the season-closer at Warwick Farm.

It would not occur until the Ralt RT4 years that so many of one make would contest a Gold Star event. It had never happened before, either, the closest as far as I can tell being six Cooper T51s. In AGP entries the 600 scored as high as seven, T51s six, Maserati 250Fs six as well. RT4s got as high as 18 and 19!


Just to complete the record of the 600s Gold Star appearances, Ray, its perhaps worth noting that, following the expansion of ANF1 to include Formula Pacific cars, 6801 returned to competition at that level in 1979/80. It then contested 4 Gold Star races equipped with a Swindon BDA engine achieving 5th place finishes at the Oran Park rounds in both years when mixed in with the F5000 cars.

It was pretty lonely out there with all those F5000s around and I don't recall any other 600s hanging in there with me so my DNF at the Lakeside Gold Star round in July 1980 was almost certainly the final appearance for a 600 at Gold Star level. With the decline in F5000 the Gold Star had lost a lot of its shine but it was still not a bad performance for a car then in its 13th active year of competition!!

#71 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 06:19

I certainly recall you running the BDA in the car, Paul...

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that 1980 meeting at Lakeside was the one where I travelled to the meeting with you. Remember the overheating, I drove off to Redcliffe and got the Falcon radiator fixed?

Though I have to also say I don't remember much else about the meeting except for Ray Hanger being there with the March. I was also at the Mattara Hillclimb that year for another of your wins there.

Didn't Ivan Tighe also have a BDA in a 600?

#72 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:29

I certainly recall you running the BDA in the car, Paul...

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that 1980 meeting at Lakeside was the one where I travelled to the meeting with you. Remember the overheating, I drove off to Redcliffe and got the Falcon radiator fixed?

Though I have to also say I don't remember much else about the meeting except for Ray Hanger being there with the March. I was also at the Mattara Hillclimb that year for another of your wins there.

Didn't Ivan Tighe also have a BDA in a 600?


I had forgotten about the overheating Falcon, Ray, but that probably was the meeting where you got the radiator fixed for me. It may also have been the trip on which I was chased up the Pacific Highway by the Highway Patrol when I forgot to pay for petrol at Raymond Terrace!!

Ray Hanger did have his March at that Lakeside meeting and, although I don't recall where I was running at the time, my DNF in the Gold Star race was caused by a lose in hungry corner during which I backed the car into an earth bank and removed the rear wing. It was hastily repaired for the August 1980 Mattara hillclimb you mention which was 6801's final appearance in contemporary motor sport. I had then acquired a March and put the old Elfin away for a few years until its return to competition in historic motorsport late in 1985. It has not missed a season since so 1981 / 1984 were the only years since its completion in 1968 when it was out of use.

Ivan did run a BDA in an Elfin but I think it was a 622 not a 600. There was another 600 in Queensland with a BDA which I think may have been owned by Don Sorrenson but I doubt it ever competed at Gold Star level.

#73 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:41

No Highway Patrol chases at Raymond Terrace that trip...

$90 for a new core in the radiator, IIRC. Maybe it was a changeover unit, I wasn't gone that long. Let's not worry too much about the March.

#74 austmcreg

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 12:45

A few more Tasmanian Elfin 600 photos.

Victorian(?) Chris Farrell at the second (very wet) Van Heusen F2 championship meetings at Symmons Plains. Posted Image
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Ted Forsyth.
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Gregg Taylor. As the cars got older, the bodywork drifted further from standard, rarely looking better!
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Geoff Munyard leading Terry Bowe.
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#75 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 13:29

Paul, you're going to have to help me with this...

The Tooth Fairy started '74 in Dudder's car, then he had the Lola T360 for one meeting, disappeared and ran the last couple of meetings of the year in this 600. I never saw it, whose was it? Did Chris hire it or own it?

Next time out was in his 622 if I've got the plot worked out.

#76 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 20:29

Paul, you're going to have to help me with this...

The Tooth Fairy started '74 in Dudder's car, then he had the Lola T360 for one meeting, disappeared and ran the last couple of meetings of the year in this 600. I never saw it, whose was it? Did Chris hire it or own it?

Next time out was in his 622 if I've got the plot worked out.


Chris started the 1974 Van Heusen Series at the Oran Park round (having missed Hume Weir) in the Lola T360 he was buying from Dudder. When that arrangement fell apart he took his new Hart engine with him and put it in the 600 he borrowed from Gronkey. That is the car pictured at the wet Symmons Plains round. It was the ex Bono, Prejawa car which Gronkey converted to F3 form later in the year with a Corolla engine. The FT200 and some other discarded F2 related bits came to me for 6801. Chris finished the year at Lakeside in the ex John Walker 622 which he bought from Garrie and continued to use with some success in 75 and 76 until we both went off to the Uk and Europe in 1977.

Chris has, of course, never lived in Victoria having grown up in Sydney and lived in Queensland since his return from the UK in the mid 80s.

#77 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 13:04

I think he actually started 1974 in the Dolphin...

Whether that was in Van Heusen races or not I'm not sure as I'm now away from home and can't check. It is interesting the hands the Lola fell into after Chris had his run in it, one of them being KB.

Looking back at that series, the names it attracted (Graeme Lawrence was another to drive the Lola, for instance, Max Stewart joined in with a March), it really was a great era in Australia's openwheeler history.

600s weren't running at the front by then, of course, but made up a significant part of the field and kept the less well-heeled in a reasonably useful car.

#78 David McKinney

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 14:23

My understanding is that Farrell, Bartlett and Lawrence all raced the 360 under the Dolphin Racing banner

#79 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 20:21

My understanding is that Farrell, Bartlett and Lawrence all raced the 360 under the Dolphin Racing banner


Dolphin was the name used by Don 'Dudder' Baker a QANTAS flight steward heavily involved in the importation of race car components. He built several Brabham BT36 copies calling them Dolphins and Chris Farrell ran one of those up to the end of 1973 when it was sold to Ray Hanger. Chris then arranged to purchase the LolaT360 from Don who, in conjunction with Glen Abbey, had planned to import one real car and then sell Dolphin copies as he had done with the BT36.

The Lola was late to arrive and was still being assembled in the pit area at the Oran Park Van Heusen round in 1974 where Chris had a DNF due to problems with his new HART engine. A dispute then arose over the price of the Lola and Chris took his engine elsewhere while he started action to recover the money he had already paid to Don and Glen. He eventually reached an agreement for recovery of his money out of sale proceeds from the car which Glen then made available to Graham Lawrence at the Amaroo Park Van Heusen round and to KB at Symmons Plains. Fred Gibson looked like buying it at one stage but the car was sold at the end of the year to Doug Macarthur who ran it in 1975/76.

Chris never did get his money back and always claimed some sort of interest in the T360. That saga finally came to an end at a Phillip Island historic meeting a few years back when the current owner of the car, Col Haste, presented him with a collection of suitably decorated discarded T360 components saying that this was all that was now left of 'his' car. Even the rather taciturn Chris Farrell saw the funny side of that and he and Dudder have recovered their relationship.

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#80 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 21:36

I can see his wry smile forming over that...

Albeit probably very slowly.

Obviously, though, the subject of this thread were getting long in the tooth by this time. Placegetters at best, often pointscorers, but never all that high on the grid. Birranas saw to that.

But if I recall correctly, Tony Alcock worked at Elfin before going to Sydney, ultimately building his FF car and then returning to Adelaide to form his relationship with 600 owner Malcolm Ramsay and getting into production of the cars that would leave the Elfins in the shade.

And didn't he have some coarse words to say about the way Elfin did things?

#81 lyntonh

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:11

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7011 John McCormack Tasman practice Warwick Farm esses 13th February 1971



#82 lyntonh

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:26

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2 x unknown Warwick Farm esses 12th February 1972
(can't identify either chassis)

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unknown...same day & location

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Enno Busselmann same day etc

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Enno B again next day interesting...he's changed helmets

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7123 Jack Bono same day plus 2 bowins





#83 lyntonh

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:29

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7122 Gary Campbell Oran Park 27th June 1971

#84 lyntonh

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:41

Posted Image
7014 Vern Hamilton and 7124 Henk Woelders Oran Park 27th June 1971

#85 lyntonh

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:48

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6803 Maurie Quincey Sandown Tasman meeting 1971

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7018 John Walker Sandown Tasman meeting 1971

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6806 Tony Stewart Sandown Tasman meeting 1971

#86 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 05:11

Originally posted by lyntonh
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2 x unknown Warwick Farm esses 12th February 1972
(can't identify either chassis)


I would guess at Bruce Allison chasing Gerry Murphy...

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7123 Jack Bono same day plus 2 Bowins


Ian Fergusson and John Leffler.

#87 Lola5000

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 08:34

The 600E that Henk Woelders raced ...question.
Was it on fuel injection and if so make?

#88 lyntonh

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:16

[quote name='Ray Bell' post='6154362' date='Mar 6 2013, 05:11']
I would guess at Bruce Allison chasing Gerry Murphy...

Then that would be 70009 chasing 71013

Edited by lyntonh, 06 March 2013 - 09:19.


#89 lyntonh

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:33

Posted Image
Gary Rush & Larry Perkins at Oran Park 19th September 1971
LP is in70006, but I can't find a car for Gary Rush in the Elfin book.


According to the Elfin register, the Gary Rush car is 70007, previously driven by Bob Young.
It was later driven by Enno Busselmann

#90 lyntonh

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:36


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Enno Busselmann same day etc

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Enno B again next day interesting...he's changed helmets

To set the record straight.....Enno Busselmann is in Gary Rush's old car 70007






#91 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:53

[quote name='lyntonh' date='Mar 6 2013, 15:26' post='6154336']


Posted Image
unknown...same day

Looks like Bob Kennedy to me.


#92 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 10:43

Yeah, someone I should have known... I like the way he tries to get down to the level of the roll bar...

If Woelders did run injection, surely it would have been Lucas mechanical?

Lynton, the different hat for Enno could be that one fitted the visor and the other didn't...



#93 lyntonh

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 21:22

Posted Image
unknown...same day

Looks like Bob Kennedy to me.


This would make the car 69002.

#94 BT 35-8

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 00:24

Re fuel injection ,

Vitually all people ran Lucas slide throttle injection with the exception of Ivan Tighe
whose car I owned , and for a time Ivan ran Tecalamit - Jackson injection as I retrieved the system
from Ivan when I purchased the car as it was still under his bench.

Bryan Miller.

#95 SJ Lambert

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:11

8 March 1970

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Bryan, are we looking at the Tecalamit system in this shot?

#96 BT 35-8

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:31

Just about definate .

Interesting that Ivan's car in early 1970 looks like it has been updated to 10.0'' and 14.0''
from the original 8 1/2'' and 12.0'' wheels.

#97 SJ Lambert

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:03

I can't quite make out the Goodyear tyre designation on the inside front left. What might it be?

#98 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 02:50

Just about definate .

Interesting that Ivan's car in early 1970 looks like it has been updated to 10.0'' and 14.0''
from the original 8 1/2'' and 12.0'' wheels.


The first reference I have seen to the use of 10" and 14" wide wheels on a 600 was at the March 1970 Symmons Plains Gold Star race when McCormack and Cooper are said to have used them on 7011 and 7012 respectively in the initial appearances of both cars. I believe that they were then made generally available and many of the earlier cars were up graded.

Its interesting to note, however, that the real width dimensions of the first of these wide wheels were actually a little short of the 10" and 14" widths commonly referred to. I used a set on 6801 in the late 70's when it was BDA powered and the rears were only 13 3/4" in width which I was told was all that could be machined out of the castings Garrie had on hand. Perhaps the ace wheel machinist, Ron Lambert, may be able to throw some light on that.

#99 kym

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:38

I have a few Elfin600 pics - I'll start with ones with info I'm sure about.

1972 October 7 Saturday practice for Gold Star round Clive Millis 600b-7019

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Same date Roger(?) Harrison (edited to add should be 600c-6908)

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Kym

Edited by kym, 12 March 2013 - 08:50.


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#100 kym

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:05

More from Adelaide International Raceway (as are the ones above), but i cannot be sure of the dates of these.

Ian Richards

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Roger Harrison - later meeting than the pics in previous post

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John Mason

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Bob Prendergast (I think when he moved up from Vees]

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Kym

Edited by kym, 13 March 2013 - 10:34.