1444 replies to this topic

[Francesc]

By the way, does anyone know if during testing they are using DRS all the time? Because the laptimes are quite a bit faster than last years testing times when DRS was also used for the whole lap.

I saw a video and DRS was being used in the main and the back straights.

[Sin]

By the way, does anyone know if during testing they are using DRS all the time? Because the laptimes are quite a bit faster than last years testing times when DRS was also used for the whole lap.

I read that in Jerez they only used it on start/finish straight? Dont know how it was in Barcelona

[windtravels]

By the way, does anyone know if during testing they are using DRS all the time? Because the laptimes are quite a bit faster than last years testing times when DRS was also used for the whole lap.

At jerez they agreed to limit it to the pit straight, but not sure about barca - i would guess the same tho.

[OO7]

At jerez they agreed to limit it to the pit straight, but not sure about barca - i would guess the same tho.

Most circuits are to have dual DRS zones this year, so perhaps DRS use was allowed on the main and back straights in Barcelona?

[Paa]

Red Bull looking good to the eye could be very easily setup related.
They always tend to choose the high-downforce route, so this might be a reason they look so planted. However you can't tell that they have a 15kph deficit in the straights just by looking at the car.

[fololo]

Red Bull looking good to the eye could be very easily setup related.
They always tend to choose the high-downforce route, so this might be a reason they look so planted. However you can't tell that they have a 15kph deficit in the straights just by looking at the car.

webbers race simulation was worrying.

[mclarennut]

The RB is famous for its lower speed on the straights and much better speed in corners due to DRS in Q3 but them not having this in 2013 could hinder them, not in the race as I believe they will be fast, good tyre management and so on, but I think it really could hurt them in Q3, starting lower down the grid in nearly all the races could cost them dearly. IMHO

[Shiroo]

webbers race simulation was worrying.

You cant say that. We only saw Williams, Lotus and RBR. Where Williams was painfully slow and Lotus was slightly better than RBR.

[DrivenF1]

I'm making good progress on the piece of analysis, hopefully I'll be able to get some interesting conclusions out today

To make the comparisons a bit more relevant (tyre deg comparisons) does anyone know of a place where tyre compounds for each run are listed? I've tallied up the autosport reports and http://f1fullthrottl...elo-2013-dia-3/ where possible but there is limited data on teams like FI, Sauber and Toro Rosso. To put it into perspective I know the compound for 24 of Red Bull's runs but only 7 for Toro Rosso.

Thanks

[mclarennut]

You cant say that. We only saw Williams, Lotus and RBR. Where Williams was painfully slow and Lotus was slightly better than RBR.

So Lotus being slightly better than RBR is not a little bit worrying? and thats without seeing the other front runners and if the other front runnings are better then would you start to worry??

Edited by mclarennut, 23 February 2013 - 14:15.

[Shiroo]

So Lotus being slightly better than RBR is not a little bit worrying? and thats without seeing the other front runners and if the other front runnings are better then would you start to worry??

well Lotus last season was a good car, and I don't see a reason why they can't be on similar level especially at the start of the season as RBR? Williams on the other hand was 40sec~behind Lots/RBR pace-wise.

And as I said we DIDN'T see other front runners, they might be better but as well might be worse than mentioned duo.

[Skinnyguy]

I saw a video and DRS was being used in the main and the back straights.

I can´t think of any other big straight around Barcelona, is that meant to be after Campsa corner? It should make the next braking zone interesting in race day...

[Seanspeed]

well Lotus last season was a good car, and I don't see a reason why they can't be on similar level especially at the start of the season as RBR? Williams on the other hand was 40sec~behind Lots/RBR pace-wise.

And as I said we DIDN'T see other front runners, they might be better but as well might be worse than mentioned duo.

Williams were about 75-90 seconds behind, actually.

But these teams and drivers will learn from the race sims and more upgrades will be coming. Lotus and Red Bull might do race sims again next week and things could look different. It is encouraging for Lotus, though.

Edited by Seanspeed, 23 February 2013 - 15:59.

[Francesc]

I can´t think of any other big straight around Barcelona, is that meant to be after Campsa corner? It should make the next braking zone interesting in race day...

Yes, after the very fast right hander.

[SRK]

Williams were about 75-90 seconds behind, actually.

It's difficult to say how many precisely. On last stint Gro lost about half a minute with averange over 1:28 instead of possible 1:23. No one knows why. This may relate to the majority of Williams simulation.

[ForeverF1]

You can't say a car is good or bad by looking at it. Is it so hard to understand?

Of course you can tell if a car is good or bad by observing it on track, you don't need lap times to confirm it. It is reasonable to assume the lap times will be good if the car is 'planted'.

[Shiroo]

It's difficult to say how many precisely. On last stint Gro lost about half a minute with averange over 1:28 instead of possible 1:23. No one knows why. This may relate to the majority of Williams simulation.

who said that 1:23 is possible ? you mean that 6 lap stint last after 28 lap stint?

Edited by Shiroo, 23 February 2013 - 16:34.

[Seanspeed]

It's difficult to say how many precisely. On last stint Gro lost about half a minute with averange over 1:28 instead of possible 1:23. No one knows why. This may relate to the majority of Williams simulation.

Its not that difficult, its just up to the reader to decide how much to read into it.

As for what Grosjean did on his last stint, I'm not sure what that has to do with Williams.

[MortenF1]

The assumption is that you can only take out a certain laptime from these tires, well below what's possible, if you want to run a reasonable stint on them.

[kedia990]

I can´t think of any other big straight around Barcelona, is that meant to be after Campsa corner? It should make the next braking zone interesting in race day...

Yea, the one after the fast right-hander.

[SRK]

As for what Grosjean did on his last stint, I'm not sure what that has to do with Williams.

Uniwersal principle- pushing for times is not mandatory even in entire race sim. Previous simulation Williams was even worse, much worse. I don't think they found a second-two by night.

Shiroo, yes. They changed tires on last stop a few laps before finish or I'm wrong.

[mclarennut]

I personally think you can not look to much into the tyres at Barcelona, how they act here is totally different how they will at OZ and im sure a lot of teams will get on top of them.

Quote,

Button said that there has been no problem understanding how to get the rubber working, unlike last year.

Edited by mclarennut, 23 February 2013 - 16:59.

[Seanspeed]

Uniwersal principle- pushing for times is not mandatory even in entire race sim. Previous simulation Williams was even worse, much worse. I don't think they found a second-two by night.

Shiroo, yes. They changed tires on last stop a few laps before finish or I'm wrong.

Do you have the times for the previous Williams race sim? Be interested to see exactly how much slower it was. Comparison will be difficult being on two different days, but it shouldn't be nearly 1 or 2 seconds a lap.

And race sims aren't much of a 'sim' if they aren't looking very closely at lap times. Maybe they're not going absolutely 100%, thats reasonable, but there wouldn't be a whole lot to gain by backing off a second or more a lap, either. That would make the testing of the tires somewhat useless as they wouldn't know what to expect once they ran at full speed. It also wouldn't stress reliability as much, which is something they'll be keen on ensuring.

[Markn93]

- Great video

[tarmac]

Pirelli going softer is like a gift to Lotus. I think they can do one stop less than most

[dans79]

The RB is famous for its lower speed on the straights and much better speed in corners due to DRS in Q3 but them not having this in 2013 could hinder them, not in the race as I believe they will be fast, good tyre management and so on, but I think it really could hurt them in Q3, starting lower down the grid in nearly all the races could cost them dearly. IMHO

I agree, because RBR has never looked good to me in dirty air. Austin was a good example, Vettel just seemed to slide back after Lewis passed him. He couldn't get pass Lewis in Montreal either, even though Lewis was on cold tires.

[Clatter]

I agree, because RBR has never looked good to me in dirty air. Austin was a good example, Vettel just seemed to slide back after Lewis passed him. He couldn't get pass Lewis in Montreal either, even though Lewis was on cold tires.

Don't forget they have a weedy KERS as well.

[kedia990]

I agree, because RBR has never looked good to me in dirty air. Austin was a good example, Vettel just seemed to slide back after Lewis passed him. He couldn't get pass Lewis in Montreal either, even though Lewis was on cold tires.

Umm not trying to go OT here, but I didnt observe that. Vettel kept up with him well, especially is S1 & S3, its just that he couldn't pass Lewis is the DRS zone due to, well, the inferior straightline speed.

[BigCHrome]

The red bull does look a tad more glued to the track. I don't know how to explain it, but compared to the other cars it just sort of always carries more speed into the corners. not sure if this is due to fuel loads or not, but it certainly looks good.

I very much doubt the human eye can see a difference of a few kph, especially from a video.

[ScottMB]

The tyres are falling apart in chunks, I mean look at the LR on Alonso's Ferrari after I think around a 12-15 lap stint. These were orange walled.
https://picasaweb.go...274576031463954

[WonderboyF1]

Back from Barcelona this afternoon, spent 2 days at the track and 2 days exploring the city, nice break. Surprised how little people turn up for the test, it is amazing value for money, maybe the next test will be busy because it falls on a weekend. Marrusia looks terrible, really horrible car very slow, they have made little progress. Was great seeing Lewis on track he was really pushing the car, exploring its limits. Webber was very tidy on braking at the first corner. I dont know if i will get to a race this year, so i guess that was my last time hearing v8 engines, sad times :-( Im now ready for the season to start, so excited!

[Morbus]

Of course you can tell if a car is good or bad by observing it on track, you don't need lap times to confirm it. It is reasonable to assume the lap times will be good if the car is 'planted'.

Not true. There are plenty of examples of planted cars on the back of the grid (08 Honda springs to mind, if memory serves), and plenty of examples of raggedy cars at the front. Last year's McLaren, for example.

[DrivenF1]

I've finally put the analysis together. There are a few surprises like:
- Mercedes posted four of the six fastest adjusted times
- Ferrari look to be seriously struggling with degradation
- Lotus are serious title contenders

For the full story/analysis, see: http://formulaoneana...3-22022013.html

I created the blog for the specific purpose as it made formatting easier, let me know what you think

[boldhakka]

I've finally put the analysis together. There are a few surprises like:
- Mercedes posted four of the six fastest adjusted times
- Ferrari look to be seriously struggling with degradation
- Lotus are serious title contenders

For the full story/analysis, see: http://formulaoneana...3-22022013.html

I created the blog for the specific purpose as it made formatting easier, let me know what you think

That's a great summary, thanks. I've ignored the conclusions, though.

Edited by boldhakka, 24 February 2013 - 08:52.

[windtravels]

great work cult. will be interesting to see how the conclusions change/ develop after the next test.

[SpeedRacer`]

If you look at Williams' testing times from last season they weren't really that impressive at all. I wouldn't be writing them off yet especially as this was their first test.

[Vesuvius]

If you look at Williams' testing times from last season they weren't really that impressive at all. I wouldn't be writing them off yet especially as this was their first test.

True and they are very excited about their car, Maldonado said is his best williams he has driven, they have only focused on reliability and understanding tyres and some setup work.

[Anderis]

If you look at Williams' testing times from last season they weren't really that impressive at all. I wouldn't be writing them off yet especially as this was their first test.

Their lap times were clearly much better last year than this year if long runs are considered. After last year's testing I knew Williams was going to be an upper midfield team (and they were in terms of speed). This year I wouldn't bet any money on that if only lap times are considered, although I trust they haven't shown everything yet.

And last year Maldonado also set the quickest time of the day at one occassion.

[Kyo]

So Lotus being slightly better than RBR is not a little bit worrying? and thats without seeing the other front runners and if the other front runnings are better then would you start to worry??

Last year both Williams and Lotus were faster than RBR in Barcelona.

[mclarennut]

Last year both Williams and Lotus were faster than RBR in Barcelona.

I know but RB was also using DRS in corners unlike this year, and Lotus was not a million miles behind RB in 2012, again RB should be worried, but I will most likely be proven wrong again by them just like every other year..

[Kyo]

I know but RB was also using DRS in corners unlike this year, and Lotus was not a million miles behind RB in 2012, again RB should be worried, but I will most likely be proven wrong again by them just like every other year..

Red Bull was slower than Williams and Lotus in race and qualifying last year. And this year there is no reason to use DRS in corners since it is banned outside the DRS zones, so no reason for then to use it. And maybe Barcelona just do not suit them for whatever the reason. They should not be more worried than they were last year.

Anyway, I believe this year the cars are even closer, and teams did not gain more than 0.6s on average compared to last year cars.

[DutchQuicksilver]

Anyway, I believe this year the cars are even closer, and teams did not gain more than 0.6s on average compared to last year cars.

Really? It would be more logical that the topteams have gained over the smaller teams as 2013 is an evolution of 2012 and in the last few races of 2012 we already saw the likes of Sauber and Williams falling back and the natural order restored.

[peroa]

Really? It would be more logical that the topteams have gained over the smaller teams as 2013 is an evolution of 2012 and in the last few races of 2012 we already saw the likes of Sauber and Williams falling back and the natural order restored.

Well, teams like Sauber and Williams don't develop till the end because they don't have the money.

[windtravels]

Also stable regs means diminishing returns for the top teams, whereas those catching have bigger gains to be found. It is for this reason mclaren decided to change their car so much this year - they thought they would hit a development ceiling too soon during the season.

Teams usually close up during stable regs.

[Kyo]

Really? It would be more logical that the topteams have gained over the smaller teams as 2013 is an evolution of 2012 and in the last few races of 2012 we already saw the likes of Sauber and Williams falling back and the natural order restored.

Was just my first impression since I only really spend my time trying to come to a conclusion after all testing is done.