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Barcelona testing 2013 19th to 22nd February


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#351 senna da silva

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 01:53

Let me have a full day behind my camera tomorrow, and I'll let you know! Planning on heading over to the last few turns for a big chunk of the day, will get a good view on who has the best balance under braking, and who can get the power down earliest.


Cheers! :up:

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#352 BigCHrome

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:54

My god, these tires are so pathetic. It looks like if you do ONE fast lap, and you're bound to lose seconds on every consecutive lap. This is going to be like 2011 on steroids, where everybody is trying to drive as slowly as possible.

#353 MP422

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:16

My god, these tires are so pathetic. It looks like if you do ONE fast lap, and you're bound to lose seconds on every consecutive lap. This is going to be like 2011 on steroids, where everybody is trying to drive as slowly as possible.


Are they supposed to be garbage or is Pirelli not capable of designing a decent tire ?

#354 BigCHrome

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:13

Are they supposed to be garbage or is Pirelli not capable of designing a decent tire ?


They were a bit stronger and better last year, but that came at the cost of a very tiny operating window. I think that if there were a tire war with Bridgestone or Michellin, most teams would go with them over Pirelli.

#355 Reinmuster

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:29

Here some unprotected view of the RBR


:up:

Edited by Reinmuster, 20 February 2013 - 05:31.


#356 Rybo

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:09

Not to mention this being February, it's way colder, setups not so perfected, not the same amount of rubber on the track, etc. etc.


Obviously the tires are the weak point, but I find it very hard to believe that any team comes into Barcelona with a less than ideal setup. Like Jenson said last year you can't try to chase the track. The setups that the sims put out are so close that you have to be patient and trust in them because they will come full circle.

#357 Treads

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:13

For what its worth, here are the laptimes for the race winner from last year:

14:04:57
2 1:30.597
3 1:30.382
4 1:30.011
5 1:30.248
6 1:30.370
7 1:30.317
8 1:30.357
9 1:30.743
10 1:30.868
11 P 1:32.929
12 1:46.213
13 1:29.273
14 1:29.763
15 1:29.437
16 1:29.439
17 1:29.428
18 1:29.454
19 1:29.401
20 1:30.477
21 1:29.389
22 1:29.665
23 1:30.016
24 P 1:32.910
25 1:44.072
26 1:27.906
27 1:28.273
28 1:28.371
29 1:28.503
30 1:28.514
31 1:28.483
32 1:28.824
33 1:28.785
34 1:28.710
35 1:29.237
36 1:28.904
37 1:29.499
38 1:29.162
39 1:29.393
40 1:29.919
41 P 1:32.699
42 1:47.214
43 1:28.208
44 1:28.925
45 1:28.526
46 1:29.140
47 1:27.943
48 1:28.884
49 1:28.288
50 1:28.173
51 1:28.181
52 1:28.379
53 1:28.270
54 1:28.327
55 1:28.521
56 1:28.593
57 1:28.686
58 1:28.369
59 1:28.106
60 1:28.551
61 1:28.696
62 1:28.585
63 1:28.840
64 1:28.869
65 1:29.161
66 1:29.735

Thought it might put into perspective some of the longer runs we start to see. Of course, different tires, warmer weather, blah blah, but still. Those looking at the faster times:

Q1:

Lewis - 1:22.583

Q2:

Maldonado - 1:22.105

Q3

Lewis - 1:21.707

So basically, about an 8 second difference from full quali pace to race start pace.


Extremely useful, great post.

#358 bauss

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:23

Extremely useful, great post.


just remember though, testing times are always faster than gp weekend times... mostly cos of the weather n track evolution

#359 loki0420

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:50

They were a bit stronger and better last year, but that came at the cost of a very tiny operating window. I think that if there were a tire war with Bridgestone or Michellin, most teams would go with them over Pirelli.

Pirelli are making the tyres teams are asking them for. Teams asked for tyres with larger window and more deg and there you have it. There's no way you can say bridgestones or michelins would be better options because Pirelli is competing with themselves and doing a decent job in making races more entertaining.

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#360 MoP

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:57

Pirelli are making the tyres teams are asking them for. Teams asked for tyres with larger window and more deg and there you have it. There's no way you can say bridgestones or michelins would be better options because Pirelli is competing with themselves and doing a decent job in making races boring and artificial


fixed!!

#361 Scorf

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:02

Can't believe the amount of 'flapping' about the state of this years tyres.... From my perspective bear in mind the following:

  • People were wringing their hands & moaning about the tyres at last years test sessions....I guess some people don't know how to react to change
  • The usual caveats...its the same for everyone & we have no idea as to the car set ups, fuel, status of test program etc....yet still people want to rush to conclusions after 3 timed laps at 9:30am!!
  • Since when has F1 only been about being the fastest in a sprint....ever since it was conceived its been a balance of a dozen or more things....do you really think Prost was ever the fastest in a sprint??
  • There was a time when they tried to neutralise all the variables...rock hard tyres, refueling. loads of testing, race broken down into small sprints for the fastest....it produced some of the dullest racing ever...step forward Ferrari & MS
  • A key variable that this fantastic sport has is the different circuits, and there are even some who would turn to exclusively billiard smooth, characterless, safe new venues because the bumpy ones don't allow the cars to work properly

In summary, and please remember these are only my opinions, the world championship is all about compromise. You attempt to get a car thats good at Monaco & Monza, in 10Deg rain & 40Deg sun, that can carry less fuel & be kind to its tyres etc etc.....ie. A Balance

As for the drivers, then surely to be a world champion you have to be able to manage & work around all these variables & more besides

Moaning that a certain component (tyres) is going to ruin the championship, at this stage of testing, is ridiculous, its one of the many factors the teams need to battle and overcome...and some of them will

#362 Treads

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:04

Pirelli are making the tyres teams are asking them for. Teams asked for tyres with larger window and more deg and there you have it. There's no way you can say bridgestones or michelins would be better options because Pirelli is competing with themselves and doing a decent job in making races more entertaining.


The way I read BigChrome's post was that if you had a choice - no other considerations relevant, disregarding the reasons behind the tyre characteristics - between the last generation of Bridgestones and the current Pirellis - you would choose the Bridgestones. Which seems logical to me, you either get a tire that is potentially a second slower in peak performance (total guess!) but for which degradation is way, way smaller.

But it is clearly the case that the teams asked for a wider operating window (or at least the teams that had trouble hitting that window last year!), and that someone was asking for more deg (whether that be the fans or the teams I'm not sure).

Overall the tyre degradation is currently so huge, I don't know if the teams will even have enough tyres to finish races next year within the two hour time limit, if things don't improve! (Possibly hyperbole I know). It as funny, as I'm a Mac fan I was looking at Mac times yesterday and thinking the tyre degradation was terrible, got really nervouce. Then I compared with the other teams and saw it seemed quite favourable. Just amazing degradation seen yesterday.

But in honesty I think the teams will learn how to manage this, how to wrap the tyres in cotton wool and drastically improve the degradation. Just as they managed to do for the last two years.



#363 BigCHrome

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:17

What I said is that Pirelli tried to make the tires more durable last year, and it came at the cost of a tiny operating window. They can either bring tires that degrade beyond belief or such finicky tires that take half the season to understand correctly.

So overall Pirelli is incapable of creating quality F1 tires.

#364 Markn93

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:35

Great commentary from Amus :lol:

09:26 Red Bull practiced pit stops. Vettel parked under our place in the press center. It is seen that Red Bull has entered the slot in the chassis behind the stage. Even in Jerez was observed that one has experimented with different sized slots.

09:28 The second pit stop for Vettel goes thoroughly into the pants. It takes about five seconds, because the left rear wheel nut stuck. The man on the impact wrench is pissed and chases his colleagues who sit on and take off the wheel away.



#365 peroa

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:36

The way I read BigChrome's post was that if you had a choice - no other considerations relevant, disregarding the reasons behind the tyre characteristics - between the last generation of Bridgestones and the current Pirellis - you would choose the Bridgestones. Which seems logical to me, you either get a tire that is potentially a second slower in peak performance (total guess!) but for which degradation is way, way smaller.

But it is clearly the case that the teams asked for a wider operating window (or at least the teams that had trouble hitting that window last year!), and that someone was asking for more deg (whether that be the fans or the teams I'm not sure).

Overall the tyre degradation is currently so huge, I don't know if the teams will even have enough tyres to finish races next year within the two hour time limit, if things don't improve! (Possibly hyperbole I know). It as funny, as I'm a Mac fan I was looking at Mac times yesterday and thinking the tyre degradation was terrible, got really nervouce. Then I compared with the other teams and saw it seemed quite favourable. Just amazing degradation seen yesterday.

But in honesty I think the teams will learn how to manage this, how to wrap the tyres in cotton wool and drastically improve the degradation. Just as they managed to do for the last two years.

The BS was a superior tyre either way, one lap or stint.
And yes, if Pirelli knew how to make a decent tyre they would do it.
I do hope Michelin will be back next year as some rumours suggested last year.

#366 Scorf

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:40

The BS was a superior tyre either way, one lap or stint.
And yes, if Pirelli knew how to make a decent tyre they would do it.
I do hope Michelin will be back next year as some rumours suggested last year.


yes but....Pirelli have been asked to make a specific tyre....not try to be the 'best tyre ever'

Any of the tyre companies could make the 'ultimate F1 tyre'...but thats not what the contract, FIA or FOM stipulated or wanted.

#367 Treads

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:46

What I said is that Pirelli tried to make the tires more durable last year, and it came at the cost of a tiny operating window. They can either bring tires that degrade beyond belief or such finicky tires that take half the season to understand correctly.

So overall Pirelli is incapable of creating quality F1 tires.


I disagree that they are incapable of creating quality F1 tyres. But, while Pirelli claim the high deg / narrow operating window is by design, I don't buy that. During the tyre wars Michelin and Bridgestone spend a lot of money developing the tyres, and hence came to a great product. Pirelli have spent far less and hence have come to a product that isn't as good. Overall conclusion: I'd say they are perfectly capable if they go out and invest the kind of big bucks that were spent in the early 00s on this to come up with a comparable product.

EDIT: changed 90s for 00s as 90s was a typo

Edited by Treads, 20 February 2013 - 08:53.


#368 Torsion

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:03

I disagree that they are incapable of creating quality F1 tyres. But, while Pirelli claim the high deg / narrow operating window is by design, I don't buy that. During the tyre wars Michelin and Bridgestone spend a lot of money developing the tyres, and hence came to a great product. Pirelli have spent far less and hence have come to a product that isn't as good. Overall conclusion: I'd say they are perfectly capable if they go out and invest the kind of big bucks that were spent in the early 00s on this to come up with a comparable product.

EDIT: changed 90s for 00s as 90s was a typo


The problem is, tyre deg is not the only parameter they need to worry about. I agree with you that the narrow operating window is probably an unwanted aftereffect, but I don't think its fair to compare the tyres to an era where tyre development was done closely with team/car requirements in mind.

Edited by Torsion, 20 February 2013 - 09:07.


#369 Timstr11

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:12

The narrow operating window is no longer an Issue according to Button.
Pirelli have been able to design the narrow operating window out of the 2013 tyres. Jenson was particularly happy about that.

Edited by Timstr11, 20 February 2013 - 09:12.


#370 bauss

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:24

The narrow operating window is no longer an Issue according to Button.
Pirelli have been able to design the narrow operating window out of the 2013 tyres. Jenson was particularly happy about that.


oh I see...just that the tires are just low quality then... anyway, lets wait til the first 4 races to really judge.

Merc have passed the 14 lap threshold today with no issues, yay

Ham's current stint looks quite decent...depending on the fuel load.... degradation wise though, better than previous

Edited by bauss, 20 February 2013 - 09:26.


#371 jstrains

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:25

AMuS reports that RB testing new airguns during pitstops, which they pack into bags immediately after use...

#372 mlsnoopy

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:25

The tyre whisperer.

A strong run from Hamilton.

#373 HoldenRT

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:31

Can't believe the amount of 'flapping' about the state of this years tyres.... From my perspective bear in mind the following:

  • People were wringing their hands & moaning about the tyres at last years test sessions....I guess some people don't know how to react to change
  • The usual caveats...its the same for everyone & we have no idea as to the car set ups, fuel, status of test program etc....yet still people want to rush to conclusions after 3 timed laps at 9:30am!!
  • Since when has F1 only been about being the fastest in a sprint....ever since it was conceived its been a balance of a dozen or more things....do you really think Prost was ever the fastest in a sprint??
  • There was a time when they tried to neutralise all the variables...rock hard tyres, refueling. loads of testing, race broken down into small sprints for the fastest....it produced some of the dullest racing ever...step forward Ferrari & MS
  • A key variable that this fantastic sport has is the different circuits, and there are even some who would turn to exclusively billiard smooth, characterless, safe new venues because the bumpy ones don't allow the cars to work properly

In summary, and please remember these are only my opinions, the world championship is all about compromise. You attempt to get a car thats good at Monaco & Monza, in 10Deg rain & 40Deg sun, that can carry less fuel & be kind to its tyres etc etc.....ie. A Balance

As for the drivers, then surely to be a world champion you have to be able to manage & work around all these variables & more besides

Moaning that a certain component (tyres) is going to ruin the championship, at this stage of testing, is ridiculous, its one of the many factors the teams need to battle and overcome...and some of them will

I don't even care who wins the championship.. I just want to be able to watch and enjoy each race.. week in and week out and feel good about doing so.. and anything is better than the entire field doing 1 stoppers with tyres that barely degrade. Super durable tyres wouldn't be so bad.. if there was refuelling and 2 and 3 stoppers.. with drivers being able to punish them hard and drive each lap like a qualifying lap. But since we are in 'managing' and 'conserving' mode these days.. these tyres seem to help.

#374 Timstr11

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:37

Interesting observation from Aldo Costa (on AMuS):

09:42 Perez ist wieder auf der Bahn. Der Mexikaner fuhr gestern einen interessanten Test. Er simulierte ein Rennen, wie er es 2012 in Montreal und Monza gefahren war. Mit Rücksicht auf die Reifen begann er absichtlich langsam, um herauszufinden, ob die neuen Pirelli-Sohlen dann auch länger leben. Es klappte erneut. "Zieht man mal die ersten langsamen Runden ab, ist er einen erstaunlich schnellen Longrun gefahren", urteilte Mercedes-Ingenieur Aldo Costa.


Roughly translated: 09:42 Perez is back on the track. The Mexicans went yesterday an interesting test. He simulated a race, as he had gone in 2012 in Montreal and Monza. In consideration of the tires, he began deliberately slow, to see if the new Pirelli tyres then live longer. It worked again. "If you draw from the first slow lap times, he is gone a surprisingly long run fast," judged Mercedes engineer Aldo Costa.

Edited by Timstr11, 20 February 2013 - 09:38.


#375 Shiroo

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:39

Lotus seems to still have some issues. If it is again telemetry issue, someone should give head for this test preperation...

#376 Jovanotti

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:41

Lotus seems to still have some issues. If it is again telemetry issue, someone should give head for this test preperation...

No, the guy on Twitter says it's too cold atm. It isn't for the others apparently...I don't dare asking him as I sure will get a stupid answer.

Edited by Jovanotti, 20 February 2013 - 09:41.


#377 JRizzle86

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:54

I must say i am enjoy the "Pig English" translations from AMUS.

#378 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:57

Posted Image

correct grammar this time!

#379 TomNokoe

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:01

Although it wasn't the fastest thing on earth, it's interesting that Hamilton went half a second faster on his 2nd flyer there.

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#380 slmk

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:02

Although it wasn't the fastest thing on earth, it's interesting that Hamilton went half a second faster on his 2nd flyer there.


It's 1:23.2 on Hards...

autosportlive That time, set on hards, included new overall bests in all three sectors. #F1

#381 jstrains

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:02

I must say i am enjoy the "Pig English" translations from AMUS.


Maybe you can translate...

Btw. currently on mediums
1. Vettel Red Bull 1:23.653m
2. Hamilton Mercedes 1:23.707m
3. Alonso Ferrari 1:24.216m

#382 meddo

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:03

Although it wasn't the fastest thing on earth, it's interesting that Hamilton went half a second faster on his 2nd flyer there.

And with what looks like an old exhaust configuration.

#383 Yoshi

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:03

Sauber is testing today the passive DRD. :)

Edited by Yoshi, 20 February 2013 - 10:06.


#384 MP422

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:04

Hope Hamilton's W04 stays on top today !! It's only testing so it doesn't matter....lol..

#385 JRizzle86

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:04

Maybe you can translate...

Btw. currently on mediums
1. Vettel Red Bull 1:23.653m
2. Hamilton Mercedes 1:23.707m
3. Alonso Ferrari 1:24.216m


Oh have a bit of humour of sense.

#386 jstrains

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:06

Posted Image

correct grammar this time!


Maybe he was reading this forum...




#387 jrg19

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:09

Looking like a nice run from Lewis.

#388 sheepgobba

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:10

Maybe he was reading this forum...


What did he say the first time?

#389 bauss

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:10

And with what looks like an old exhaust configuration.



actually this worries me, cos the stints suggest the car uses its tires better with the old exhaust config... and they havent figured out the coanda properly yet.

#390 slmk

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:12

actually this worries me, cos the stints suggest the car uses its tires better with the old exhaust config... and they havent figured out the coanda properly yet.


Unclear whether they are still running the old exhaust config.

#391 study

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:14

AMuS reports that RB testing new airguns during pitstops, which they pack into bags immediately after use...



really, they are so pathetic.

#392 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:15

Maybe he was reading this forum...


or it's Webber's car

#393 EvanRainer

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:15

Can't believe the amount of 'flapping' about the state of this years tyres.... From my perspective bear in mind the following:


Yeah, there's no point wondering mate don't waste your time. It's just the usual you-know-who's fanboys crying about the tyres and we've had this discussion plenty of times.


#394 JRizzle86

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:18

What did he say the first time?


My other car is a RB9

#395 Markn93

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:19

Unclear whether they are still running the old exhaust config.

Amus reports it was the new, coanda one used on the last stint.

#396 MP422

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:20

Yeah, there's no point wondering mate don't waste your time. It's just the usual you-know-who's fanboys crying about the tyres and we've had this discussion plenty of times.


Classy post !! :down:

#397 Jovanotti

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:21

Twitter @Lotus F1 Team ‏

We can officially deny any rumours that we're having an exceptionally long breakfast; we're changing gearbox. Running will be resumed soon


Edited by Jovanotti, 20 February 2013 - 10:21.


#398 slmk

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:21

Amus reports it was the new, coanda one used on the last stint.


If so, that's very encouraging.

Good deg and pace on this stint.

This car could probably crack the 1:21s in qualifying.

#399 watercolours

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:21


So immature. I hope he doesn't exhibit his trophies in front of the rear window.

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#400 jcbc3

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:23

Lotus seems to still have some issues. If it is again telemetry issue, someone should give head for this test preperation...



:eek: