Jump to content


Photo

Early Benz racing cars at R√©tromobile ‚?? green with envy


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 THead

THead
  • Member

  • 108 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 18 February 2013 - 16:32

This post has been deleted because of unwarranted negative feed back.

Edited by THead, 19 February 2013 - 00:55.


Advertisement

#2 Rudernst

Rudernst
  • Member

  • 82 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 18 February 2013 - 18:43

I was shocked to see these important cars totally overrestored and stripped of any history, especially the Blitzen Benz, smothered in thick white glossy laquer

the cars still had presence especially the Blitzen Benz, aaand I was very hapy to see them,but.....

Rudolf

Edited by Rudernst, 18 February 2013 - 19:57.


#3 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 8,047 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 18 February 2013 - 23:21

The restored Blitzen has elements painted that the period photos show weren't painted originally. If you are going to 'restore' a car surely it is fundamental to make the re-creation as accurate as possible. Otherwise you might as well create something like the numerous Cobra copies on the principle that "Near enough is good enough"

#4 Ralf Pickel

Ralf Pickel
  • Member

  • 492 posts
  • Joined: December 05

Posted 19 February 2013 - 07:57

I guess the marketing people tell the restorers "we cannot show shabby cars, what would potential customers think". So, the museum cars are prepared like the products they try to sell.
Just look at the (outside) finish of all the existing Silver Arrows and compare with period photos. The MB cars do have, at least, underneath the too glossy exterior a hint of originalty left if you look at their engine bays.
And the Louwman car has been restored (rebuilt?) with the help of MB, I have read somewhere.

#5 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 8,047 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 19 February 2013 - 14:32

This post has been deleted because of unwarranted negative feed back.

Come on! Isn't that a rather childish response - "I don't like what you say so I'm removing it"

Do you honestly expect people to all say "Oooh! Ah! Isn't that wonderful" even if they don't think so?

I agree that some of the feedback is negative - but that does not mean it is unwarranted. Clearly several people feel that many so-called restorations are over the top and say so. It is questioning the values of some who commission restorations and some who carry them out. It is not in any way a criticism of those doing the restoration work clearly they are following the instructions received which presumably say something like 'make it look as good as you can'. Nor is it necessarily a criticism of those whose attitude is that a historic car is a piece of sculpture and should be made "as beautiful as possible".

But, if someone's views are that if the condition of a car is such that it needs restorative work then it should be restored to as close to the original condition, or its condition at some stage in its life in the case of cars that have been continuously developed, then surely they are allowed to express an opinion if they consider a car has been, by their criteria, 'over-restored'.

In summary, I think deleting the original post is a piquant over-response to justified (even if negative) comments.

Edited by D-Type, 19 February 2013 - 14:33.


#6 THead

THead
  • Member

  • 108 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 19 February 2013 - 16:17

Come on! Isn't that a rather childish response - "I don't like what you say so I'm removing it"

Do you honestly expect people to all say "Oooh! Ah! Isn't that wonderful" even if they don't think so?

I agree that some of the feedback is negative - but that does not mean it is unwarranted. Clearly several people feel that many so-called restorations are over the top and say so. It is questioning the values of some who commission restorations and some who carry them out. It is not in any way a criticism of those doing the restoration work clearly they are following the instructions received which presumably say something like 'make it look as good as you can'. Nor is it necessarily a criticism of those whose attitude is that a historic car is a piece of sculpture and should be made "as beautiful as possible".

But, if someone's views are that if the condition of a car is such that it needs restorative work then it should be restored to as close to the original condition, or its condition at some stage in its life in the case of cars that have been continuously developed, then surely they are allowed to express an opinion if they consider a car has been, by their criteria, 'over-restored'.

In summary, I think deleting the original post is a piquant over-response to justified (even if negative) comments.


I deleted my part of that thread because it appeared to me that it was just going to turn into a bashing session like a couple of other threads I have posted here. The two Museums that brought the cars should have been commended for what they did but all I was hearing was the negative.

Sorry, but that is the way I feel about.



#7 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 8,047 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 19 February 2013 - 17:33

Perhaps rather than deleting the content, you could have rebutted the criticisms.

#8 Rudernst

Rudernst
  • Member

  • 82 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:16

I deleted my part of that thread because it appeared to me that it was just going to turn into a bashing session like a couple of other threads I have posted here. The two Museums that brought the cars should have been commended for what they did but all I was hearing was the negative.

Sorry, but that is the way I feel about.



I agree with You that we should be happy and thankfull to be able to see the cars.
This is why I said something similar but not as strong to the same effect in my first post.

I was genuinely shocked to see what has happened to the Blitzen Benz.
This was recently restored in the USA in an exchange for the Mercedes contributing some parts to a Blitzen Benz replica (in the Barny Oldfield style) that is based on the radiator (yes, really that all that remains ! + a period engine) of the original record breaker Blitzen which was broken up in the USA relatively early.
This latest restoration was apparently done to American taste.
The car that was displayed at Retro is NOT the famous record breaker but something that Mercedes-Benz built up in the 1930is from parts found in storage in an attempt to capitalise on the early records.
Even then this was not done 100 % period perfect then.
Make no mistake: the current works Blitzen might have been built up from parts but that was the only option as all cars were broken up in the 1920ies
its the best possible thing to have.

I am not an expert on these cars, the general drift of what I say is right but i cant vouch for the details.
Anybody interested in more background should seek out a copy of Vintage Racecar where the restoration of the Retromobile car and especially the building of the Barney Oldfield replica are covered.
That article is well worth reading.
It also describes how it feels to drive the car and what an effort it takes to actually start and run it.
That is the positive outcome of the recent Amerian venture that there is now a running car and I think the potential is there for the works Blitzen to be run again also. IIRC the works Blitzen never was a runner after its assembly in the 1930is but I might be wrong there.

writing this I realis how passionate I was and still am about these cars.

And to end this on a positive note:
The GP Benz looked stunning at the Retro

Rudolf

Edited by Rudernst, 19 February 2013 - 18:27.


#9 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 8,047 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 19 February 2013 - 19:18

The reference in the deleted first thread was to here

So, the Blitzen Benz featured is a re-creation from an assembly of parts rather than a restoration of a car that has deteriorated with age and use So there is actually no question of originality having been destroyed in this instance.

#10 Alan Cox

Alan Cox
  • Member

  • 7,670 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 01 March 2013 - 12:22

I read in this month's issue of Historic Motor Racing News that the two 'Prinz Heinrich' cars were found in Australia complete, but lacking bodies, and were restored in a joint venture between Mercedes and the Louwman Museum. Therefore, the bodies, as presented at Rétromobile, had no patina to lose.



#11 Marticelli

Marticelli
  • Member

  • 281 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 01 March 2013 - 13:33

.... the two 'Prinz Heinrich' cars were found in Australia complete, but lacking bodies, ....

Surely these two Benz cars belonged to the late Bob Chamberlain and were sold after he died along with the excellent Napier Samson replica he created around the engine of that car which was found in an old speedboat in Victoria.. IIRC as they say..

Marticelli