Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 8 votes

What if the Mercedes is on the sharp end of the grid this year?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
127 replies to this topic

#1 F.M.

F.M.
  • Member

  • 5,577 posts
  • Joined: April 08

Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:12

It's still quite early in testing, but so far it looks like the Mercedes this year will be pretty competitive. So what will Hamilton's reaction be if this turns out to be the case? Will he be happy or dissappointed (at the same time)?

The main reason Hamilton moved to Mercedes was because he wanted a challenge: to transform a struggling team to a winning team. Something so far almost no driver is credited for bar Schumacher at Ferrari. Hamilton has stated this in all his interviews about the move, most recently on Top Gear. () He obviously cares a lot about not only to be considered/remembered as a fast driver, but a driver that helped a team turn around a page. Therefore Hamilton took the (reasonably safe) risk to join Mercedes this year, anticipating a not so successful 2013, in the hope to then come out 'all guns blazing' in 2014 with the new engine regulations (this is what makes it a rather safe risk, as Mercedes is a manufacturer team which are believed to have an advantage for 2014 because of the importance of engine integration into the chassis), and taking a part of the credit of the turnaround.

So if Mercedes turns out to be good already this year, the realistion of this dream of Hamilton is put on hold for quite some years. Additionally, a lot of the credit will go the Brawn and Schumacher again, making them the ones to do it twice in their career!

I believe that, although Hamilton will in a way be happy to fighting at the front of the grid, in the back of his mind he will be massively dissappointed to not be part of the group of people that helped Mercedes turn the table (while his teammate was) and therefor losing the chance of some history writing.

Advertisement

#2 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 14,461 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:13

If the car is competitive, no doubt he'll get plenty of credit for it when time comes to write history.

#3 jstrains

jstrains
  • Member

  • 1,469 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:17

Of course he would not like to transform the team for 4 years, I am sure he will be happy if winning from the very beginning. He did not change the team just to keep the trophies :wave:

#4 RedBaron

RedBaron
  • Member

  • 2,782 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:17

I hope it is competitive, I am holding back getting too excited until the lights go out though. It's a shame it could have taken so long for them to get their act together.

#5 Vesuvius

Vesuvius
  • Member

  • 5,883 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:17

Hamilton him self have said he won't have much to do with W04 so he can't take much credit if both mecedes drivers achieve same results. Hamilton's influence will be seen 2014.

#6 oligc94

oligc94
  • Member

  • 513 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:18

Frankly, I don't think he'll care.

What people will remember is that he had some serious stones to leave ever-competitive McLaren and go to a team which has won only one race in its current incarnation, and if he arrives and leads them to wins and championships, people will simply say that his arrival gave them the impetus to take their performance to the next level. It would also represent a big middle finger to those who claimed that the move was a mistake and irrational.

#7 Shiroo

Shiroo
  • Member

  • 4,012 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:20

I will try to answer on topic question

What if the Mercedes is on the sharp end of the grid this year?


Well it won't change the world. Wars will be still ongoing, no global peace, and we can expect some natural disasters as well.
If they will be on the sharp end of the grid, then they will be there.

#8 r4mses

r4mses
  • Member

  • 1,100 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:25

IF the car is at the top end of the grid, I'd want MSC to come back asap. Maybe ROS oder HAM catches a flu or smth harmless when it's raining in Belgium on Thursday and MSC comes back to win Spa.  ;)

#9 F1ultimate

F1ultimate
  • Member

  • 2,861 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:31

Let's not put on the winning T-shirts yet. Good pace at testing doesn't paint the fortunes for the future. Lewis will push the card way harder during the season when he's up against Vettel in qualifying and much can go wrong.

#10 Burtros

Burtros
  • Member

  • 1,017 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:32

It's still quite early in testing, but so far it looks like the Mercedes this year will be pretty competitive. So what will Hamilton's reaction be if this turns out to be the case? Will he be happy or dissappointed (at the same time)?

The main reason Hamilton moved to Mercedes was because he wanted a challenge: to transform a struggling team to a winning team. Something so far almost no driver is credited for bar Schumacher at Ferrari. Hamilton has stated this in all his interviews about the move, most recently on Top Gear. () He obviously cares a lot about not only to be considered/remembered as a fast driver, but a driver that helped a team turn around a page. Therefore Hamilton took the (reasonably safe) risk to join Mercedes this year, anticipating a not so successful 2013, in the hope to then come out 'all guns blazing' in 2014 with the new engine regulations (this is what makes it a rather safe risk, as Mercedes is a manufacturer team which are believed to have an advantage for 2014 because of the importance of engine integration into the chassis), and taking a part of the credit of the turnaround.

So if Mercedes turns out to be good already this year, the realistion of this dream of Hamilton is put on hold for quite some years. Additionally, a lot of the credit will go the Brawn and Schumacher again, making them the ones to do it twice in their career!

I believe that, although Hamilton will in a way be happy to fighting at the front of the grid, in the back of his mind he will be massively dissappointed to not be part of the group of people that helped Mercedes turn the table (while his teammate was) and therefor losing the chance of some history writing.


Hamilton joined Mercedes because he wanted to leave McLaren (for whatever reasons) and found his path out to Red Bull and Ferrari blocked. He took the best option he was left with at the end of the day - but he cant really say that so we get this 'challenge' story instead.

So in awnser to the question, and with my view in mind - if they have a decent car Hamilton will be doing cart-wheels down the pit lane waiving his 'get out of jail free card' around in delight.

#11 Anja

Anja
  • Member

  • 507 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:34

Come on, it's Mercedes we're talking about. Don't worry, they will screw something up.

#12 bauss

bauss
  • Member

  • 5,009 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:34

if Merc is at the sharp end that just shows us that Ham TDG is so much more better and faster at building a team than Schumacher or any other driver.





im kidding just in case


#13 meddo

meddo
  • Member

  • 1,523 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:37

Come on, it's Mercedes we're talking about. Don't worry, they will screw something up.

And then they¨ll just bring Sam Michael to finally sort this s..t out. Once and for all. Lauda, Michael and Crazy Lew. It's like Todt, Brawn and Schumster back in the day... Wait, they¨ll have to let Ross go then. He is the fifth wheel.

#14 Jon83

Jon83
  • Member

  • 1,791 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:40

What on earth would he have to be disappointed about?

Hamilton wants to win races and championships.

No offence to the OP, but some people get so carried away with nonsense like this.

#15 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 9,879 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:41

If Mercedes is competitive, one thing that won't matter is "Hamilton's reaction." It would make the driver rivalry much juicier though.

It should be remembered that Mercedes had the fastest car for two race weekends at the beginning of last year.

It's not at all about how quick the W04 is out of the box, it's all about the development over a season.

#16 SealTheDiffuser

SealTheDiffuser
  • Member

  • 932 posts
  • Joined: June 12

Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:41

then ROS will become WDC :smoking: :rotfl: :kiss: :stoned:

Edited by SealTheDiffuser, 20 February 2013 - 12:43.


#17 maverick69

maverick69
  • Member

  • 4,520 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:53

It's still quite early in testing, but so far it looks like the Mercedes this year will be pretty competitive. So what will Hamilton's reaction be if this turns out to be the case? Will he be happy or dissappointed (at the same time)?

The main reason Hamilton moved to Mercedes was because he wanted a challenge: to transform a struggling team to a winning team. Something so far almost no driver is credited for bar Schumacher at Ferrari.


In response to the first point - I think he'll be delighted........ and we'll all know about it for better or worse depending on where you sit with the guy. And to be honest - given the stick he has taken off of the press, on here, etc........ I won't begrudge him sticking that outcome down certain necks should it come to fruition.

As for the second point - I don't think that's the main reason why he moved despite what he says. It was just time to fly the nest TBH.........

Edited by maverick69, 20 February 2013 - 12:54.


#18 superdelphinus

superdelphinus
  • Member

  • 1,338 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 20 February 2013 - 13:02

Yeah would be quite funny if the car is fast, but Rosberg wins the wdc

#19 sheepgobba

sheepgobba
  • Member

  • 1,092 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 20 February 2013 - 13:11

The car probably will be competitive but it will fail before it reaches the finish line :p

Advertisement

#20 Peat

Peat
  • Member

  • 1,248 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 20 February 2013 - 13:12

MercGP have been quick the last 2 seasons.

Let's wait until they race somewhere with some temperature and watch the rear tyres fall apart as usual.

#21 superdelphinus

superdelphinus
  • Member

  • 1,338 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 20 February 2013 - 13:13

Yeah I think it's the development race where they'll fall down, and that includes tyre handling. Wouldn't put it past Hamilton being on pole in oz though and everyone getting excited

#22 pdac

pdac
  • Member

  • 825 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 20 February 2013 - 13:20

What on earth would he have to be disappointed about?

Hamilton wants to win races and championships.

No offence to the OP, but some people get so carried away with nonsense like this.


Exactly what I was thinking.

#23 choyothe

choyothe
  • Member

  • 2,312 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 20 February 2013 - 13:23

Hamilton would get all the credit for the turnaround.

#24 Peat

Peat
  • Member

  • 1,248 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 20 February 2013 - 13:37

Yeah I think it's the development race where they'll fall down, and that includes tyre handling. Wouldn't put it past Hamilton being on pole in oz though and everyone getting excited


Indeedy. Look at 'BrackleyF1', when have they ever kept up during a season? Even in 09 they went from starting with a massive advantage to barely troubling the podium during the season.

#25 P123

P123
  • Member

  • 8,353 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 20 February 2013 - 13:37

What if the Mercedes is on the sharp end of the grid this year?

If the evidence of this topic is a precursor to what could be expected, then a fleet of whambulances would need to be ordered. The sweat is on (the mere existance of this topic after one fastest time in testing tells us all we need to know..)

As for the real world, it would spice up the championship to have Rosberg and Hamilton at the front.

What if the Ferrari is the best car, what if Perez beats Button, what if Webber beats Vettel, what ifButton becomes WDC, what if McLaren have a poor year, what if Bernie is found to wear a cheap wig etc, etc

#26 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Member

  • 7,465 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 20 February 2013 - 13:42

Funnily enough I was just thinking about what if Hamilton wins in Australia. A repeat of Mansell and Ferrari if there ever was one.

#27 Brandz07

Brandz07
  • Member

  • 3,178 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 20 February 2013 - 13:54

Indeedy. Look at 'BrackleyF1', when have they ever kept up during a season? Even in 09 they went from starting with a massive advantage to barely troubling the podium during the season.


Things change.

#28 choyothe

choyothe
  • Member

  • 2,312 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 20 February 2013 - 13:55

What if the Mercedes is on the sharp end of the grid this year?

If the evidence of this topic is a precursor to what could be expected, then a fleet of whambulances would need to be ordered. The sweat is on (the mere existance of this topic after one fastest time in testing tells us all we need to know..)

As for the real world, it would spice up the championship to have Rosberg and Hamilton at the front.

What if the Ferrari is the best car, what if Perez beats Button, what if Webber beats Vettel, what ifButton becomes WDC, what if McLaren have a poor year, what if Bernie is found to wear a cheap wig etc, etc


I can start those threads if you want.

#29 BoschKurve

BoschKurve
  • Member

  • 1,153 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 20 February 2013 - 13:57

If Mercedes is competitive, one thing that won't matter is "Hamilton's reaction." It would make the driver rivalry much juicier though.

It should be remembered that Mercedes had the fastest car for two race weekends at the beginning of last year.

It's not at all about how quick the W04 is out of the box, it's all about the development over a season.


:up: +1

Mercedes hasn't shown they can field a competitive car over the course of the entire season.

Not sure why people continue thinking testing is somehow proof of the car.

I thought a Prost once led the time sheets many years ago...

#30 teejay

teejay
  • Member

  • 3,653 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 20 February 2013 - 14:08

I reckon Lewis will bribe Nico, and then drive around at 80% pace so it doesnt look like they built a fast car before his time.

#31 NoDivergence

NoDivergence
  • Member

  • 1,811 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 20 February 2013 - 14:25

Indeedy. Look at 'BrackleyF1', when have they ever kept up during a season? Even in 09 they went from starting with a massive advantage to barely troubling the podium during the season.


They ran out of money in 2009 because of the Honda pullout so couldn't continue devolopment.

#32 BoschKurve

BoschKurve
  • Member

  • 1,153 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 20 February 2013 - 14:26

They ran out of money in 2009 because of the Honda pullout so couldn't continue devolopment.


No shortage of money these last 3 seasons and the same thing persists.

#33 Velocifer

Velocifer
  • Member

  • 736 posts
  • Joined: January 02

Posted 20 February 2013 - 15:07

The main reason Hamilton moved to Mercedes was because he wanted a challenge: to transform a struggling team to a winning team.

It baffles that some people still believe this.

Hamilton joined Mercedes because he wanted to leave McLaren (for whatever reasons) and found his path out to Red Bull and Ferrari blocked. He took the best option he was left with at the end of the day - but he cant really say that so we get this 'challenge' story instead.

So in awnser to the question, and with my view in mind - if they have a decent car Hamilton will be doing cart-wheels down the pit lane waiving his 'get out of jail free card' around in delight.

Exactly right.

#34 Ramses1348

Ramses1348
  • Member

  • 573 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 20 February 2013 - 15:18

It baffles that some people still believe this.


Indeed, we are in 2013 and people still believe the fairy tales of drivers building teams, this baffles me as well. If anything, Alonso's last stints at Renault and Ferrari should put that to rest. Or schumi Mercedes spell... Thinking that a driver can have more than a marginal influence on the quality of the work made by 450 engineers is ludicrous.

Edited by Ramses1348, 20 February 2013 - 15:18.


#35 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 9,883 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 20 February 2013 - 15:19

Half the BB, myself included, will look like fools.

#36 Kvothe

Kvothe
  • Member

  • 6,845 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 20 February 2013 - 15:49

Hamilton joined Mercedes because he wanted to leave McLaren (for whatever reasons) and found his path out to Red Bull and Ferrari blocked. He took the best option he was left with at the end of the day - but he cant really say that so we get this 'challenge' story instead.

So in awnser to the question, and with my view in mind - if they have a decent car Hamilton will be doing cart-wheels down the pit lane waiving his 'get out of jail free card' around in delight.

:lol:

#37 Number62

Number62
  • Member

  • 493 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 20 February 2013 - 16:08

Indeed, we are in 2013 and people still believe the fairy tales of drivers building teams, this baffles me as well. If anything, Alonso's last stints at Renault and Ferrari should put that to rest. Or schumi Mercedes spell... Thinking that a driver can have more than a marginal influence on the quality of the work made by 450 engineers is ludicrous.


Isn't this a sport where success and failure are predicated on improvements made in the margins?

#38 1Devil1

1Devil1
  • Member

  • 2,738 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 20 February 2013 - 16:16

Indeed, we are in 2013 and people still believe the fairy tales of drivers building teams, this baffles me as well. If anything, Alonso's last stints at Renault and Ferrari should put that to rest. Or schumi Mercedes spell... Thinking that a driver can have more than a marginal influence on the quality of the work made by 450 engineers is ludicrous.


You should put the whole drivers building teams thing into a context. When Schumacher was at Ferrari, you had unlimited testing, drivers feedback was much more important back then. Schumacher did everything to control every little detail, he brought some new spirit to Ferrari. Of course he didn't build the car, he had the luck to be in the boat with Ross and Byrne, but he had a huge impact of the restructuring of Ferrari, nobody can deny that. Like Rory Byrne, couldn't have done that alone. It wasn't called dream team without a reason. Nowadays, drivers a less and less important for the developing of the car but I believe a strong character as Schumacher still could have a huge impact on the approach of the team.

#39 SR388

SR388
  • Member

  • 3,826 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 20 February 2013 - 16:21

Not much. A lot of old F1 drivers who had a microphone shoved in their face will look silly.

Advertisement

#40 BoschKurve

BoschKurve
  • Member

  • 1,153 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 20 February 2013 - 16:38

You should put the whole drivers building teams thing into a context. When Schumacher was at Ferrari, you had unlimited testing, drivers feedback was much more important back then. Schumacher did everything to control every little detail, he brought some new spirit to Ferrari. Of course he didn't build the car, he had the luck to be in the boat with Ross and Byrne, but he had a huge impact of the restructuring of Ferrari, nobody can deny that. Like Rory Byrne, couldn't have done that alone. It wasn't called dream team without a reason. Nowadays, drivers a less and less important for the developing of the car but I believe a strong character as Schumacher still could have a huge impact on the approach of the team.


I'm telling you, Ross didn't do shit at Ferrari.

He has no idea how to run a team.

#41 Deluxx

Deluxx
  • Member

  • 2,174 posts
  • Joined: June 12

Posted 20 February 2013 - 17:22

The car probably will be competitive but it will fail before it reaches the finish line :p



#42 BillBald

BillBald
  • Member

  • 3,493 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 20 February 2013 - 18:06

You should put the whole drivers building teams thing into a context. When Schumacher was at Ferrari, you had unlimited testing, drivers feedback was much more important back then. Schumacher did everything to control every little detail, he brought some new spirit to Ferrari. Of course he didn't build the car, he had the luck to be in the boat with Ross and Byrne, but he had a huge impact of the restructuring of Ferrari, nobody can deny that. Like Rory Byrne, couldn't have done that alone. It wasn't called dream team without a reason. Nowadays, drivers a less and less important for the developing of the car but I believe a strong character as Schumacher still could have a huge impact on the approach of the team.


Didn't Schumi bring Ross and Byrne with him from Benneton? Or have I become even more senile than I suspect?

Lewis hasn't brought anyone with him from McLaren, and shows no signs of wanting to. He's not been involved in team organisation, except for possibly helping to block Ross' dismissal.

I'm sure Lewis will drive the Merc as fast as it can be driven, but the idea that he could be responsible for 'team building' is ridiculous.



#43 1Devil1

1Devil1
  • Member

  • 2,738 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 20 February 2013 - 18:17

Didn't Schumi bring Ross and Byrne with him from Benneton? Or have I become even more senile than I suspect?

Lewis hasn't brought anyone with him from McLaren, and shows no signs of wanting to. He's not been involved in team organisation, except for possibly helping to block Ross' dismissal.

I'm sure Lewis will drive the Merc as fast as it can be driven, but the idea that he could be responsible for 'team building' is ridiculous.


Schumacher went to Ferrari without Ross and Byrne. Todt called them and got them for 1997. I guess Schumacher played a huge part in that transaction, surely he spook about these two with Todt and the opportunity to get them to Ferrari. On Lewis I agree, he I think his priority is to drive fast as he can, and his impact can't be big, because I wouldn't call him the political type that would like to be involved in team organization. Furthermore I can't see Stuttgart would allow that. In Schumacher case we had special situation

#44 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 4,256 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 20 February 2013 - 18:20

I seriously hope it´s the case, and we have 5 great drivers in 5 great closely matched cars fighting for the title. That´d be a dream. But I just can´t see it happening, this team smells like Honda to me, something will go wrong. Something likethey starting the season again in great shape and then start dropping down the order.

#45 jjcale

jjcale
  • Member

  • 7,282 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 20 February 2013 - 18:23

Didn't Schumi bring Ross and Byrne with him from Benneton? Or have I become even more senile than I suspect?

Lewis hasn't brought anyone with him from McLaren, and shows no signs of wanting to. He's not been involved in team organisation, except for possibly helping to block Ross' dismissal.

I'm sure Lewis will drive the Merc as fast as it can be driven, but the idea that he could be responsible for 'team building' is ridiculous.


That's not a small deal ....

#46 antifozy

antifozy
  • Member

  • 179 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 20 February 2013 - 21:56

I would love to see an initial championship fight between Lotus and Merc, as judging from past seasons, Ferrrari/McLaren and RB will out develop them anyways so it will lead to an interesting mid to end of season. However I doubt that would happen. The top 3 will likely be faster from day 1.

#47 DrF

DrF
  • Member

  • 1,445 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 20 February 2013 - 21:56

Other than driving well, not making mistakes and giving precise feedback about setup, what influence can a driver really have?

#48 Dolph

Dolph
  • Member

  • 4,886 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 20 February 2013 - 22:41

Frankly, I don't think he'll care.

What people will remember is that he had some serious stones to leave ever-competitive McLaren and go to a team which has won only one race in its current incarnation, and if he arrives and leads them to wins and championships, people will simply say that his arrival gave them the impetus to take their performance to the next level. It would also represent a big middle finger to those who claimed that the move was a mistake and irrational.


Dunno. Do people still remember the shock of Button leaving Brawn to partner Hamilton?

#49 Vesuvius

Vesuvius
  • Member

  • 5,883 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 20 February 2013 - 23:08

Other than driving well, not making mistakes and giving precise feedback about setup, what influence can a driver really have?


After those, None what so ever.

#50 FenderJaguar

FenderJaguar
  • Member

  • 1,455 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 21 February 2013 - 00:00

they can be the inspiration of a team. you win and lose as a team. it is a culture and the driver is a part of it.