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What if the Mercedes is on the sharp end of the grid this year?


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#51 Jimisgod

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 00:43

MercGP have been quick the last 2 seasons.

Let's wait until they race somewhere with some temperature and watch the rear tyres fall apart as usual.


:up: Merc will probably start faster than last year, win a few races and give the fanboys an erection, then spend the rest of the year falling behind in development and having parts fail.

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#52 Rakaman

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:33

Come on, it's Mercedes we're talking about. Don't worry, they will screw something up.


I think you got your silver cars mixed up. Mclaren are the ones that usually screw up.

#53 charly0418

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 02:07

I think you got your silver cars mixed up. Mclaren are the ones that usually screw up.


No one screws up car development as well as Mercedes

#54 BillBald

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 02:19

That's not a small deal ....


Agreed, and I think Lewis acted correctly.

But... it's sort of the opposite of wanting to bring about changes to improve the team.



#55 George Costanza

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 02:50

Then Mercedes would have screwed Michael Schumacher.

#56 George Costanza

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 02:52

Schumacher went to Ferrari without Ross and Byrne. Todt called them and got them for 1997. I guess Schumacher played a huge part in that transaction, surely he spook about these two with Todt and the opportunity to get them to Ferrari. On Lewis I agree, he I think his priority is to drive fast as he can, and his impact can't be big, because I wouldn't call him the political type that would like to be involved in team organization. Furthermore I can't see Stuttgart would allow that. In Schumacher case we had special situation



Of course, Michael did. He was the one who told Jean and Luca to get Ross and Rory back in the game.... You cannot compare Ferrari with Mercedes in that environment. MGP got Niki Lauda, someone Ferrari knows all too well about how to run or consult a team, and he was terrible.

#57 George Costanza

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 02:53

Indeedy. Look at 'BrackleyF1', when have they ever kept up during a season? Even in 09 they went from starting with a massive advantage to barely troubling the podium during the season.



Fully agreed sir.

#58 HoldenRT

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 06:30

During all of these hypotheticals.. Mercedes could be good this year.. worrying about credit and all of that.. and then just as easily struggle once the new regs come in.. and take a few years to get on top of them (again).

And that wouldn't be Hamilton's fault. He's not an engineer. All he can do is give his feedback and drive the wheels off of the car.

I'm sure he worries (in some part) about his legacy and building a team and all of that.. but overall he wanted a new environment.. new challenges and I'm sure no matter who gets the credit.. he wants as quick a car as possible.. for every single race.

#59 Dzeidzei

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:18

All he can do is give his feedback and drive the wheels off of the car.


Actually, is driving the wheels off and locking in corners a good thing? Like Perez said yesterday, tyredeg is worse than ever and Sergio is said to be easy on tyres.

Is that a threat to Ham? Something that plays in favor of Jenson, for example?


Dont think I like this development at all....

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#60 klyster

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:35

lol at the subtle Ham dig, top posting.

Mercedes may not be at the sharpest end at the moment, but they are certainly looking better than most would have guessed.

Looks like the doomsayers are a little disappointed, time will tell who the pointy end will be, I'm thinking it will be the same old again but Mercedes are looking a lot better than most here thought possible.

#61 Hairy

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:06

Actually, is driving the wheels off and locking in corners a good thing? Like Perez said yesterday, tyredeg is worse than ever and Sergio is said to be easy on tyres.

Is that a threat to Ham? Something that plays in favor of Jenson, for example?


No, not really, not if you look at his long runs yesterday. Button didn't manage the tyres well last year, and this year, they're worse.


#62 jj2728

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:54

Come on, it's Mercedes we're talking about. Don't worry, they will screw something up.


You don't know much about Mercedes do you?

#63 Jejking

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 13:24

I'm telling you, Ross didn't do shit at Ferrari.

He has no idea how to run a team.

You ate a lot of Funnies yesterday?

#64 AMG FAN

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 13:40

Hamilton joined Mercedes because he wanted to leave McLaren (for whatever reasons) and found his path out to Red Bull and Ferrari blocked. He took the best option he was left with at the end of the day - but he cant really say that so we get this 'challenge' story instead.

So in awnser to the question, and with my view in mind - if they have a decent car Hamilton will be doing cart-wheels down the pit lane waiving his 'get out of jail free card' around in delight.

dont you just love it when we have the mind readers in the group yet they are unable to mind read that they know bugger all about what they are talking about? fyi Hamilton started talking to Mercedes around Dec 2011.

#65 Slackbladder

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 13:43

After those, None what so ever.


They are the most public face of the team however (apart from maybe the team principles, but a lot more people could name Hamilton and Vettel than Witmarsh and Horner no doubt). So they have a important 'setting the tone' in terms of feel and in confidence.

But as the actual mechanics and engineering?? Not much at all beyond feel and setup.

Edit: It does amuse me all the doom mongers and naysayers maybe starting to do a little backtrack. Things change, and things improve or decline. I've never said that Merc would be world beaters out of the box, but likewise all those which automatically have written them off (and theres been a lot), might have been a bit premature.

Edited by Slackbladder, 21 February 2013 - 13:46.


#66 aditya-now

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 14:13

"What if the Mercedes is on the sharp end of the grid this year?


This is your name and this is what you say.

My name is aditya-now and I'd say, then Lewis will win the WDC!

#67 aditya-now

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 14:16

lol at the subtle Ham dig, top posting.

Mercedes may not be at the sharpest end at the moment, but they are certainly looking better than most would have guessed.

Looks like the doomsayers are a little disappointed, time will tell who the pointy end will be, I'm thinking it will be the same old again but Mercedes are looking a lot better than most here thought possible.



... could it be that Michael's departure and Lewis joining the team gave the much desired boost?

#68 rhukkas

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 14:19

... could it be that Michael's departure and Lewis joining the team gave the much desired boost?


Unless Lewis can fundamentally change the laws of physics by departing McLaren, then his entering the team will have had zero affect on the current performance of the base car.

#69 aditya-now

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 14:22

Of course, Michael did. He was the one who told Jean and Luca to get Ross and Rory back in the game.... You cannot compare Ferrari with Mercedes in that environment. MGP got Niki Lauda, someone Ferrari knows all too well about how to run or consult a team, and he was terrible.


As far as I am aware of, Lauda counseled Luca to get Jean Todt and to get Michael Schumacher. So he was not too bad in moving the Ferrari team ahead, and this sideways of his airline business and his RTL job.



#70 aditya-now

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 14:22

Unless Lewis can fundamentally change the laws of physics by departing McLaren, then his entering the team will have had zero affect on the current performance of the base car.


Speaking about the moral boost, not his technical input


#71 BoschKurve

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 14:25

You ate a lot of Funnies yesterday?


He still has no idea how to run a team.

He was there for the well-oiled machine of Ferrari, and apparently never learned anything.

It's amazing the free pass he has gotten for his ineptitude that's been on display for a few years.

#72 BoschKurve

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 14:27

:up: Merc will probably start faster than last year, win a few races and give the fanboys an erection, then spend the rest of the year falling behind in development and having parts fail.


:up:

Except I don't see them winning any races.

But they'll do just enough to convince the fanboys and DrZ that success is right around the corner!

#73 BoschKurve

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 14:29

I'll make a bold prediction, within maybe two years this team won't even exist. Toto and Lauda will buy out the team from Mercedes for pennies on the dollar, and then rename it Brabham.

The Daimler shareholders actually want out of F1 altogether. This isn't going to end well.

#74 meddo

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 14:29

He still has no idea how to run a team.

He was there for the well-oiled machine of Ferrari, and apparently never learned anything.

It's amazing the free pass he has gotten for his ineptitude that's been on display for a few years.

Are you for real?

#75 BoschKurve

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 14:31

Are you for real?


Yes I am for real.

Have you ever looked at all of the excuses Brawn has for why things don't go Mercedes way?

Ever noticed all the blind alleys the team runs down that don't amount to shit?

Brawn looks for a silver bullet, but since his old boss Max is no longer running the FIA, these things become more difficult to get.

#76 meddo

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 14:36

Yes I am for real.

Have you ever looked at all of the excuses Brawn has for why things don't go Mercedes way?

Ever noticed all the blind alleys the team runs down that don't amount to shit?

Brawn looks for a silver bullet, but since his old boss Max is no longer running the FIA, these things become more difficult to get.

Well, I¨m for one inclined to believe that he promised his new bosses that he'll be the first to downsize the team according to RRA, and naively felt for the trick other teams sold him. Guy is the legend in his own right in my book.

#77 maverick69

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 14:38

People who keep bringing the phrase "fanboy" in to an argument to force their point remind me of most homophobics.

They keep harping on about the sanctimonity of it all..... But deep down they fancy a bit of willy.......

#78 Brandz07

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 14:39

People who keep bringing the phrase "fanboy" in to an argument to force their point remind me of most homophobics.

They keep harping on about the sanctimonity of it all..... But deep down they fancy a bit of willy.......


:lol:

#79 boldhakka

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 14:40

Well, I¨m for one inclined to believe that he promised his new bosses that he'll be the first to downsize the team according to RRA, and naively felt for the trick other teams sold him. Guy is the legend in his own right in my book.


That kinda makes him a bad person to be running a F1 team though. "Naively" ...

Merc will do good to beat Lotus this year, and I think they will. Beyond that if they really manage to fight for the championship, I will be very happy for Lewis.

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#80 Moore

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 14:41

People who keep bringing the phrase "fanboy" in to an argument to force their point remind me of most homophobics.

They keep harping on about the sanctimonity of it all..... But deep down they fancy a bit of willy.......


Think I've found my new signature :rotfl:

#81 Obi Offiah

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 14:42

People who keep bringing the phrase "fanboy" in to an argument to force their point remind me of most homophobics.

They keep harping on about the sanctimonity of it all..... But deep down they fancy a bit of willy.......

:lol:

#82 BoschKurve

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 14:49

Well, I¨m for one inclined to believe that he promised his new bosses that he'll be the first to downsize the team according to RRA, and naively felt for the trick other teams sold him. Guy is the legend in his own right in my book.


But this is my point. Everyone makes excuses for him.

Sorry, this guy isn't new to F1. He's been around for a long long time, and for him to fall for a trick by the other teams would indicate he has never learned anything in all his time in F1. That leads to my belief that this guy doesn't know the first thing about running a F1 team, and shouldn't even be in a position to do so.

There are far better choices than Brawn, assuming Mercedes actually wants to have success....and I question their true commitment to success as they've allowed the shenanigans in Brackley to continue.

#83 jrg19

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 14:50

People who keep bringing the phrase "fanboy" in to an argument to force their point remind me of most homophobics.

They keep harping on about the sanctimonity of it all..... But deep down they fancy a bit of willy.......


"Hamophobic"

#84 maverick69

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 14:52

:smoking:

#85 MajorRichard

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 15:09

I will be even more annoyed there is no MSC in F1 anymore.

#86 jjcale

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 17:33

People who keep bringing the phrase "fanboy" in to an argument to force their point remind me of most homophobics.

They keep harping on about the sanctimonity of it all..... But deep down they fancy a bit of willy.......


Is that what you mean by a target rich environment??

:lol:

#87 Afterburner

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 19:14

People who keep bringing the phrase "fanboy" in to an argument to force their point remind me of most homophobics.

They keep harping on about the sanctimonity of it all..... But deep down they fancy a bit of willy.......

Very well done. :up:

#88 DutchCruijff

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 19:17

If Mercedes are on the sharp end of the grid this year, I think it'll be safe to assume that Schumacher had a major part in it, so much more than Rosberg or Hamilton. thus chalking up another "bringing a legendary manufacturer to the fore" for the GOAT.

#89 maverick69

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 19:54

Is that what you mean by a target rich environment??

:lol:


:lol:

#90 MP422

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 19:57

If Mercedes are on the sharp end of the grid this year, I think it'll be safe to assume that Schumacher had a major part in it, so much more than Rosberg or Hamilton. thus chalking up another "bringing a legendary manufacturer to the fore" for the GOAT.


No way.... i look at it as he was the problem. Goat isn't MSC in my opinion.

#91 BoschKurve

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 20:02

No way.... i look at it as he was the problem. Goat isn't MSC in my opinion.


Michael was the least of MGP's problems.

The team itself has a fundamental problem starting from the top all the way to down.

It's called bad management, and poor organizational structure.

The only thing that may save this team in 2013 are the Pirelli Lotto specials.

#92 MP422

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 20:11

Michael was the least of MGP's problems.

The team itself has a fundamental problem starting from the top all the way to down.

It's called bad management, and poor organizational structure.

The only thing that may save this team in 2013 are the Pirelli Lotto specials.



Schumi wasn't very good, 1 podium in 3 seasons. Hamilton is behind the wheel now. They have someone capable of a greater level of performance now and that's really what they need. 2012 was a wash due to that stupid ddrs and 2011 everybody got smashed by RBR, and 2010 i think they held their own for a new team so this exaggeration of Mercedes having issues cause of Ross Brawn is not a view i share.

#93 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 20:14

He still has no idea how to run a team.

He was there for the well-oiled machine of Ferrari, and apparently never learned anything.

It's amazing the free pass he has gotten for his ineptitude that's been on display for a few years.


Ferrari before MSC/Brawn/Byrne looked pretty hopeless with Todt at the helm too.


It is called chemistry.

When Mike Tyson left Kevin Rooney it went downhill for both of them. Together they were unbeatable. Things have to click.

Do I think Hamilton is that missing piece? No...but he is more 'English' than Schumacher so he may integrate better and quicker. Then again, if working with a 7 time world champion could not left their game...can Hamilton?

#94 BoschKurve

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 20:17

Schumi wasn't very good, 1 podium in 3 seasons. Hamilton is behind the wheel now. They have someone capable of a greater level of performance now and that's really what they need. 2012 was a wash due to that stupid ddrs and 2011 everybody got smashed by RBR, and 2010 i think they held their own for a new team so this exaggeration of Mercedes having issues cause of Ross Brawn is not a view i share.


Not sure if you noticed, but the car was a piece of shit.

Kind of hard to finish high when your own team has no idea on how to properly develop the car no?

#95 BoschKurve

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 20:22

Ferrari before MSC/Brawn/Byrne looked pretty hopeless with Todt at the helm too.


It is called chemistry.

When Mike Tyson left Kevin Rooney it went downhill for both of them. Together they were unbeatable. Things have to click.

Do I think Hamilton is that missing piece? No...but he is more 'English' than Schumacher so he may integrate better and quicker. Then again, if working with a 7 time world champion could not left their game...can Hamilton?


If John Barnard had done what Williams and Jordan did with the side impact rules in 1996, there's a possibility that the '96 Ferrari would have done well in Michael's hands. Michael won three races in that thing, which was not a very good car by any means.

#96 George Costanza

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 21:04

If John Barnard had done what Williams and Jordan did with the side impact rules in 1996, there's a possibility that the '96 Ferrari would have done well in Michael's hands. Michael won three races in that thing, which was not a very good car by any means.



Yes, but a 1996 Schumacher was his very best, but given how dominant the Williams was, it wouldn't have mattered.

Edited by George Costanza, 21 February 2013 - 21:06.


#97 Kvothe

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 21:20

If Mercedes are on the sharp end of the grid this year, I think it'll be safe to assume that Schumacher had a major part in it, so much more than Rosberg or Hamilton. thus chalking up another "bringing a legendary manufacturer to the fore" for the GOAT.


Of course when one usually makes a rather controversial point if unable to provide any evidence one is usually required at the very least to explain the rationale behind such a comment. AFAIA Schumacher's influence was very negligible this time around, and can not be compared to his Ferrari days with unlimited testing ect, especially since most work is done via the simulator now which Michael was unable to drive due to motion sickness. He certainly didn't contribute through driver performance, or the boosting of team morale, in fact there were various comments about the team's unhappiness with him, and the spectre of his age although media driven refused to go away hanging over Mercedes like a shadow. He may have been great in 2012 but even than had a couple of brainfades (Spain, Singapore) and both his 2010 and 2011 campaigns appear to have severely tarnished his reputation, and rumours suggest that even with Michael there Daimler were seriously suggesting pulling out and that it was only the signing of LH(apparently maneuvered in the background by both Ecclestone and Lauda), along with favourable terms in the new Concorde agreement which was what ultimately stayed Daimler's hands and ensured their continued presence in F1.



#98 MP422

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 21:21

Not sure if you noticed, but the car was a piece of shit.

Kind of hard to finish high when your own team has no idea on how to properly develop the car no?



In F1 it's not always wise to look back, things change quickly, If and when they find their so called structure they might potentially reach the goal of consistently fighting for wins. I've said it before, this team has all the ingredients for success. If you would have told me in 2008 Milton Keynes and Brackley will have won the next 4 wdc/wcc titles i would have told you they can't develop etc.

#99 Jon83

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 21:36

When you win races and championships, which Hamilton etc aim for, nobody (himself included) is going to look back and say 'ah yes, but he didn't have huge involvement in the development of the car'

Unless that is now added to the record books.

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#100 EarnardBeccelstone

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 22:03

He still has no idea how to run a team.

He was there for the well-oiled machine of Ferrari, and apparently never learned anything.

It's amazing the free pass he has gotten for his ineptitude that's been on display for a few years.


:rotfl:

Brawn is a man who has led three separate teams at technical/team director to nine titles, over the course of 18 years.
Its amazing that you're the only one who can spot the "ineptitude" of Ross Brawn.