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2nd Barcelona test 28/02/13-03/03/13


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#1001 tarmac

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:03

I wouldnt be shocked if Merc > Ferrari but still over 0,5s off the pace

Ferrari and Merc were the only top teams to do low fuel

Edited by tarmac, 03 March 2013 - 19:04.


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#1002 BernieEc

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:05

if merc & Ferrari head the grid, there will be some red faced journos. That will be the biggest shock yet

#1003 ZF1

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:07

Regardless the fact that this is testing and the times are 'useless', we have to take into account that post 2009 only Vettel and Webber have recorded a time faster than that of Rosberg's, and that was the RB6 with DDD in 2010. So I will be very surprised if Merc isn't up there with the best at least at the start of this season!

#1004 f1rookie

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:07


Final day in photos...

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more pics - http://www.formula1o...s-2013-pre.html



#1005 femi

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:09

I wouldnt be shocked if Merc > Ferrari but still over 0,5s off the pace

Ferrari and Merc were the only top teams to do low fuel


Which begs the question, why did the rest of the top teams refuse to do low fuel runs? What have they got to lose? or should it be what are they afraid of? I don't think it's going to make them go slower in Aus.

Edited by femi, 03 March 2013 - 19:10.


#1006 DaddyCool

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:10

People underestimated McLaren in 2011 after tests, and they were practically the only team which could occasionally challenge Red Bull.
Similarly, Ferrari was the laughing stock in 2012 (after tests), in the end it was Alonso/Ferrari who almost got the last laugh.

It would be unwise to rule out Mercedes (or Lotus and Ferrari for that matter) at this point.

#1007 f1f1f1

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:14

2nd Barcelona test highlights:



#1008 Seanspeed

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:14

I am not expecting that to be the case though. I do not think the mid-field teams are going to be better at tyre management than the top teams. The surprise will be a Merc 1,2...

There were lots of surprises last year.

Just in Australia alone:

- Button dominates first race of the year.
- A Lotus qualifying in 3rd place.
- Red Bull 7 tenths off Mclaren in 5th and 6th.
- Maldonado looking strong fighting for 5th in the race.
- Mercedes quick in quali, then awful on Sunday.

Most race weekends, especially in the first 2/3's of the season, all had their share of surprises, much of it due to the nature of the Pirelli's.

Pat Fry is right to expect more of the same. We can all wittle things down to saying the top teams will be the ones occupying all the top spots, but I wouldn't go taking the 'midfield' teams for granted.

#1009 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:14

I wouldnt be shocked if Merc > Ferrari but still over 0,5s off the pace

Ferrari and Merc were the only top teams to do low fuel


Source? Edit: OK I guess looking at the times, maybe. But that still does not tell us the performance of other cars with low fuel

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 03 March 2013 - 19:16.


#1010 Mc_Silver

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:15

It seems like we will see extremely close lap times at the front in OZ. Red Bull seems sandbagging a little bit but I don't think they will start this season as strong as they started in 2010 and 2011. It should be even closer fight than we have seen in 2012.

#1011 ApexMouse

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:17

People underestimated McLaren in 2011 after tests, and they were practically the only team which could occasionally challenge Red Bull.
Similarly, Ferrari was the laughing stock in 2012 (after tests), in the end it was Alonso/Ferrari who almost got the last laugh.

It would be unwise to rule out Mercedes (or Lotus and Ferrari for that matter) at this point.


Because they absolutely sucked during testing. Their saving grace for the entire season was a quick copy of the red-bull exhaust system for oz that gave them heaps of time and better reliability. They didnt even have time to make some of the parts out of carbon. I don't think we will see something similar this year, but it's not out of the realms of possibility.

Also if Ferrari start a little off I think they will do very well. They have already stated they are a little pushed because of last years battle, so once the new updates (that appear to be working now they're in the cologne tunnel) come on stream for Europe onward I can see them challenging hard.

Edited by ApexMouse, 03 March 2013 - 19:21.


#1012 SCUDmissile

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:28

if merc & Ferrari head the grid, there will be some red faced journos. That will be the biggest shock yet

Ham vs Alo part deux. Would be very interesting, but yea unexpected to say the least.

I still think McLaren will be on the pace. It might be a blessing in disguise that they got high deg as their drivers don't take much out of their tyres.
It won't take long for them to understand their car, especially if they go for a filming day or aero test. They will be right in the thick of it at Melbourne. This has got to be one of the least conclusive preseasons yet.

Roll on Melbourne

#1013 motorhead

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:33

Ham vs Alo part deux. Would be very interesting, but yea unexpected to say the least.


I wouldn´t count Rosberg out, not just yet.

#1014 rasul

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:34

People underestimated McLaren in 2011 after tests, and they were practically the only team which could occasionally challenge Red Bull.
Similarly, Ferrari was the laughing stock in 2012 (after tests), in the end it was Alonso/Ferrari who almost got the last laugh.

It would be unwise to rule out Mercedes (or Lotus and Ferrari for that matter) at this point.


I think at this point many are underestimating McLaren and Red Bull and overestimating Mercedes.

#1015 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:36

RB9 will be the car to beat in Melbourne, just my gut feeling.

#1016 femi

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:37

There were lots of surprises last year.

Just in Australia alone:

- Button dominates first race of the year.
- A Lotus qualifying in 3rd place.
- Red Bull 7 tenths off Mclaren in 5th and 6th.
- Maldonado looking strong fighting for 5th in the race.
- Mercedes quick in quali, then awful on Sunday.

Most race weekends, especially in the first 2/3's of the season, all had their share of surprises, much of it due to the nature of the Pirelli's.

Pat Fry is right to expect more of the same. We can all wittle things down to saying the top teams will be the ones occupying all the top spots, but I wouldn't go taking the 'midfield' teams for granted.


Good points...

#1017 SteF1an

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:37

soo Vettel got a new haircut, anybody got a photo of that? XD...

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#1018 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:47

Posted Image

New haircut another World Championship  ;)

#1019 ASFA2011

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:55

Well , according to Andrew Benson Red Bull might be sitting in a very significant advantage and come Melbourne they will blitz the whole field , he think that Vettel and his car was capable of producing a low 1min 19 sec lap time in Barcelona

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#1020 kedia990

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 20:22

Well , according to Andrew Benson Red Bull might be sitting in a very significant advantage and come Melbourne they will blitz the whole field , he think that Vettel and his car was capable of producing a low 1min 19 sec lap time in Barcelona


Now the mission is to find out where he stole the fuel and tyre data from. :lol:

#1021 Longtimefan

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 20:36

If Merc have turned it around I'd love to know what exactly changed to transform a heap of junk into a title winning car.
its been mainly a damn embarrassment to us fans over the past 3 years.

#1022 ed24f1

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 20:41

My photos here from testing
https://twitpic.com/...f1#type=gallery

Currently uploading a video of Lotus / Red Bull / Ferrari / McLaren through Campsa as they happened to be all in a line about 4.30pm this afternoon.

Found a screen with split and speed trap times, but they turned it off in the Circuit de Catalunya Members' Pavilion before I could get any useful data from it :(

Edited by ed24f1, 03 March 2013 - 20:48.


#1023 Kingshark

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 20:48

Why do fans still believe that they can conclude anything significant through winter testing?

Mercedes 2012
Ferrari 2011
BMW 2009
Renault 2007
Honda 2006

Teams that were all suppose to be championship contenders after testing month was over, but became a laughing stock as the season evolved.

#1024 ed24f1

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 20:49

Red Bull certainly weren't pushing as hard as the others (particularly Mercedes) based on my observations over the last three days. Ferrari and McLaren were at times, and Lotus seemed to be going quite hard, but that might more be Grosjean's erratic style when he was in the car haha

#1025 slmk

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 21:00

People underestimated McLaren in 2011 after tests, and they were practically the only team which could occasionally challenge Red Bull.
Similarly, Ferrari was the laughing stock in 2012 (after tests), in the end it was Alonso/Ferrari who almost got the last laugh.

It would be unwise to rule out Mercedes (or Lotus and Ferrari for that matter) at this point.


Wrong. McLaren's exhaust solution was unreliable. They bolted a copycat of the Red Bull one during the Aus GP - otherwise they would have been nowhere.

#1026 Harry

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 21:00

Red Bull certainly weren't pushing as hard as the others (particularly Mercedes) based on my observations over the last three days. Ferrari and McLaren were at times, and Lotus seemed to be going quite hard, but that might more be Grosjean's erratic style when he was in the car haha

No, they were sandbagging like fook just as they always do in testing. I think Vettel will win the first race, but that is due to their slyness in testing, Vettel managed 2nd place last year and that was with a car widely renowned in his opinion of being not up to the challenge. Now you have him saying he's happy but obviously holding back from his real opinion.

I think Vettel will win in Melbourne.

Edited by Harry, 03 March 2013 - 21:04.


#1027 ed24f1

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 21:02

Here's my testing video I mentioned earlier

http://www.youtube.c...eature=youtu.be

This was taken about 4.30pm this afternoon.

#1028 slmk

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 21:04

Red Bull certainly weren't pushing as hard as the others (particularly Mercedes) based on my observations over the last three days. Ferrari and McLaren were at times, and Lotus seemed to be going quite hard, but that might more be Grosjean's erratic style when he was in the car haha


Which makes sense considering their fastest time is a low 1:22..., 2 seconds off the best times.

#1029 ed24f1

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 21:10

Which makes sense considering their fastest time is a low 1:22..., 2 seconds off the best times.

Yeah of course, but on the odd occasion they did go for it the car looked very good of course, but they didn't do it over a whole lap as you can see from the times.

#1030 fololo

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 21:29

Well , according to Andrew Benson Red Bull might be sitting in a very significant advantage and come Melbourne they will blitz the whole field , he think that Vettel and his car was capable of producing a low 1min 19 sec lap time in Barcelona



ACcording to him last year red bull would dominate in 2012 in australia hahahah.


IM REALLY ANGRY ABOUT MCLAREN LAST YEAR THEY WERE 0,5Sec faster than red bull and still decided to make a new car, well done...

#1031 Kimiraikkonen

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 21:39

ACcording to him last year red bull would dominate in 2012 in australia hahahah.


IM REALLY ANGRY ABOUT MCLAREN LAST YEAR THEY WERE 0,5Sec faster than red bull and still decided to make a new car, well done...



Yeah, it´s true, and don´t know why? :confused:

#1032 apoka

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 21:42

ACcording to him last year red bull would dominate in 2012 in australia hahahah.


IM REALLY ANGRY ABOUT MCLAREN LAST YEAR THEY WERE 0,5Sec faster than red bull and still decided to make a new car, well done...

Better to wait until race 5 or 6 before being angry. If they were 0.5 seconds and now have a good base to further improve they could be the shock Ferrari was speaking of a few posts above. :cat:

#1033 Velocifer

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 21:43

If Merc have turned it around I'd love to know what exactly changed to transform a heap of junk into a title winning car.
its been mainly a damn embarrassment to us fans over the past 3 years.

Ah yes that old pole and race winner piece of crap..Posted Image

#1034 mattferg

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 21:45

Why do fans still believe that they can conclude anything significant through winter testing?

Mercedes 2012
Ferrari 2011
BMW 2009
Renault 2007
Honda 2006

Teams that were all suppose to be championship contenders after testing month was over, but became a laughing stock as the season evolved.


Kingshark saying something logical that makes sense?

Mind = blown

#1035 apoka

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 21:47

Vettel: "We never had less informative winter tests." ( http://www.motorspor...e_13030313.html )

He is also saying that it is difficult to find weaknesses of the car, because the tyres simply aren't good enough - even with the warmer weather today.


#1036 superdelphinus

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 21:47

Well , according to Andrew Benson Red Bull might be sitting in a very significant advantage and come Melbourne they will blitz the whole field , he think that Vettel and his car was capable of producing a low 1min 19 sec lap time in Barcelona


They were all saying exactly the same thing this time last season, and it's all based on expectation and considering too much of what has come before. One thing which has been a feature of the last couple of seasons, probably predicated by very stable regulations, is that what the performance at any particular time looks like, it actually is. So many practice sessions last season it was immediately clear who were the fast ones, along time before q3 confirmed it - in previous seasons there was a lot more held back. This is also partly the tyres I think

#1037 Sin

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 21:47

Posted Image


thanks :o he shaved tho didn't he? In the last video I saw he was shaved, and.. he looks so much better when he is shaved.... so thats good the hairstyle is okay...

*adds a little feminine touch to the topic, by discussing drivers appearance*

Edited by Sin, 03 March 2013 - 21:48.


#1038 Shiroo

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 21:59

thanks :o he shaved tho didn't he? In the last video I saw he was shaved, and.. he looks so much better when he is shaved.... so thats good the hairstyle is okay...

*adds a little feminine touch to the topic, by discussing drivers appearance*

Yep, he looks quite handsome with that few days beard, but these hairs hmm He would look way better with a bit more classic ones.

#1039 Shiroo

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 22:02

ACcording to him last year red bull would dominate in 2012 in australia hahahah.


IM REALLY ANGRY ABOUT MCLAREN LAST YEAR THEY WERE 0,5Sec faster than red bull and still decided to make a new car, well done...

I dunno about that as well. What's the point of these experiments? They could change a bit car (especially fix that insanely low reliability) and could fight for WDC, but well NOPE, gonna do totally new car!

they are like only team that decided to change car so much compared to last year's

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#1040 robefc

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 22:04

Well , according to Andrew Benson Red Bull might be sitting in a very significant advantage and come Melbourne they will blitz the whole field , he think that Vettel and his car was capable of producing a low 1min 19 sec lap time in Barcelona


Autosport coming up with a similar calculation but they also have merc at a low 1min 19sec and then adjusted their assumption on the fuel merc was carrying, seemingly just to make it slower than the red bull.

If we take Red Bull's best time from the two Barcelona tests – which was Vettel’'s 1m22.197s last month – take off 0.7 seconds for the track improvement that happened this week, and deduct 2.45s to fuel correct it down to empty and you are left with a probable potential of 1m19.047s.

If Rosberg was running 30kg of fuel today (as could be expected), then that leaves a theoretical best of 1m19.08s. However, if the W04 was running on even less fuel, its potential best would start heading towards the mid-1m19s.

Edited by robefc, 03 March 2013 - 22:05.


#1041 study

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 22:09

Autosport coming up with a similar calculation but they also have merc at a low 1min 19sec and then adjusted their assumption on the fuel merc was carrying, seemingly just to make it slower than the red bull.

If we take Red Bull's best time from the two Barcelona tests – which was Vettel’'s 1m22.197s last month – take off 0.7 seconds for the track improvement that happened this week, and deduct 2.45s to fuel correct it down to empty and you are left with a probable potential of 1m19.047s.

If Rosberg was running 30kg of fuel today (as could be expected), then that leaves a theoretical best of 1m19.08s. However, if the W04 was running on even less fuel, its potential best would start heading towards the mid-1m19s.


I like the guess work, how the know what fuel redbull or even merc had

#1042 Sin

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 22:18

Yep, he looks quite handsome with that few days beard, but these hairs hmm He would look way better with a bit more classic ones.


disagree :p he should go back to his longer hair and fully shaved.... that suited him best ;).... but he looks good now ....


sooo what shall we do all the time till Melbourne? I can't wait for it.... ^_^....

I'm not sure how much these tests say about the cars... but I'll be cheering for 3 teams in this order 1. Sauber 2. Red Bull 3. Force India

#1043 Shiroo

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 22:26

disagree :p he should go back to his longer hair and fully shaved.... that suited him best ;).... but he looks good now ....


sooo what shall we do all the time till Melbourne? I can't wait for it.... ^_^....

I'm not sure how much these tests say about the cars... but I'll be cheering for 3 teams in this order 1. Sauber 2. Red Bull 3. Force India

he looks cute instead of handsome if he is fully shaved. a real man has a real beard. And i'm heterosexual (just saying)

about order. well Sauber might be best of the rest, RBR will be probably best, Force India will be probably worst (not including Marussia and Caterham). Their race pace looked horrible and their car looks almost like old one

#1044 TomNokoe

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 22:30

Everyone is saying that the track was faster than the second test yet it would have been completely green due to rain, wouldn't it?

#1045 Sin

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 22:46

he looks cute instead of handsome if he is fully shaved. a real man has a real beard. And i'm heterosexual (just saying)

about order. well Sauber might be best of the rest, RBR will be probably best, Force India will be probably worst (not including Marussia and Caterham). Their race pace looked horrible and their car looks almost like old one



I got nothing about beards, but they don't suit Seb and for example Nico R. however Button looks awesome with beard.. as does (not a racing driver) Dominic Monaghan

but well :p matter of taste... and yeah I'm heterosexual and female too

and well I am not saying anything about their order in the Constructors Championship :p just about the order I will be cheering for the teams, Sauber is just the coolest team :)

#1046 robefc

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 22:56

I like the guess work, how the know what fuel redbull or even merc had


They seem to think they have a reasonable idea.

However, everyone also seems to be working everything backwards to ensure that RB come out on top from their calcuations to support their 'gut' feeling that they are quickest.

#1047 HPT

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 23:09

I like the guess work, how the know what fuel redbull or even merc had


There is a method to their guesswork. Most teams have a baseline fuel level that they use during testing and they usually use the same level every year to get data comparison. Engineers and drivers move between teams so these levels are then revealed. Of course it is possible that a team might decide to use a different fuel level this year for testing, that's why they can never be 100% sure but it does seem like they have quite a bit of data to make intelligent guesses about the cars' relative pace.

#1048 PoleMan

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 00:04

Autosport coming up with a similar calculation but they also have merc at a low 1min 19sec and then adjusted their assumption on the fuel merc was carrying, seemingly just to make it slower than the red bull.

If we take Red Bull's best time from the two Barcelona tests – which was Vettel’'s 1m22.197s last month – take off 0.7 seconds for the track improvement that happened this week, and deduct 2.45s to fuel correct it down to empty and you are left with a probable potential of 1m19.047s.

If Rosberg was running 30kg of fuel today (as could be expected), then that leaves a theoretical best of 1m19.08s. However, if the W04 was running on even less fuel, its potential best would start heading towards the mid-1m19s.

That's a lot of "IFs," but they need to sell subscriptions. It's not like they can just say "We'll all find out the truth of who's quickest in 2 weeks." That REALLY is the truth, but then how could they justify their expert analysts and scribes if they didn't pretend to "know" and "see" more than we can. :kiss:

Very excited for this season! Like Seb says, the tyre wear issue makes sorting the cars and the pecking order difficult, so they'll use the first few races as extended test sessions like last year.

Seems Lotus, Mercedes and Ferrari seem pretty confident in themselves...at least as much as one can be. :cool:

Edited by PoleMan, 04 March 2013 - 00:05.


#1049 scheivlak

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 00:15

Autosport coming up with a similar calculation but they also have merc at a low 1min 19sec and then adjusted their assumption on the fuel merc was carrying, seemingly just to make it slower than the red bull.

If we take Red Bull's best time from the two Barcelona tests – which was Vettel’'s 1m22.197s last month – take off 0.7 seconds for the track improvement that happened this week, and deduct 2.45s to fuel correct it down to empty and you are left with a probable potential of 1m19.047s.

If Rosberg was running 30kg of fuel today (as could be expected), then that leaves a theoretical best of 1m19.08s. However, if the W04 was running on even less fuel, its potential best would start heading towards the mid-1m19s.

Well, I might be wrong but I think anybody who's making speculations about 1m19.0 laps in a situation where cars are merely evolutions of last year's cars and supersofts don't seem to work may well be making a fool of himself.

#1050 fololo

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 00:26

Well, I might be wrong but I think anybody who's making speculations about 1m19.0 laps in a situation where cars are merely evolutions of last year's cars and supersofts don't seem to work may well be making a fool of himself.

Someone has to stop this exhaust drama, t

I hope next year the blown exhaust will be completly banned