37 replies to this topic

[F1EC]

According to various twitterers

[Disgrace]

Any Twittererers say anything to the contrary?

[F1EC]

No. It's been officially announced by McLaren

[jrg19]

Link.

[HopkinsonF1]

Not the greatest source, but here it is from Yahoo: http://uk.eurosport....-150856004.html

[F1EC]

Link.

http://uk.eurosport....-150856004.html

and
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105705

Edited by F1EC, 25 February 2013 - 15:19.

[Kvothe]

McLaren have apparently released a statement, not yet made public which confirms Tim Goss as technical director, various F1 journalists on twitter have been quoting key parts.

[CoinOperated]

Any Twittererers say anything to the contrary?

Even Autosport runs this story on their Twitters it seems.

AUTOSPORT ‏@autosportnews
Goss appointed new McLaren tech chief: #F1 - McLaren has appointed Tim Goss as its new technical director, in ... http://bit.ly/13IWI35

[jrg19]

http://uk.eurosport....-150856004.html

and
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105705

Official then, Ive asked in the McLaren thread but could anyone help me with the cars Goss has had a major hand in?

[JRizzle86]

Official then, Ive asked in the McLaren thread but could anyone help me with the cars Goss has had a major hand in?

Define major hand. He has been with McLaren as a design Engineer since 1990.

Edited by JRizzle86, 25 February 2013 - 15:24.

[HopkinsonF1]

Official then, Ive asked in the McLaren thread but could anyone help me with the cars Goss has had a major hand in?

He was chief engineer on the MP4-23. Not a bad car!

[jrg19]

Which cars have he been credited with.

[JRizzle86]

Which cars have he been credited with.

I would say it's a team effort, but to be honest the way McLaren's matrix structure works no one man or woman is really responsible anymore. This ain't Red Bull with Newey steering the helm.

It means when key personnel leave they are less adversely affected. Apt really.

Edited by JRizzle86, 25 February 2013 - 15:37.

[HopkinsonF1]

Which cars have he been credited with.

In the post-Newey era, McLaren don't really work like that. Different people are in charge of different aspects of design without any one 'dictator', so to speak. But Goss has been 'Chief Engineer' on the 23 and 25, and played a key role in the 27 (a car which wasn't credited to anyone).

[HopkinsonF1]

I would say it's a team effort, but to be honest the way McLaren's matrix structure works no one man or woman is really responsible anymore. This ain't Red Bull with Newey steering the helm.

Just to clarify, the 'matrix' specifically referred to the way McLaren alternated between two design teams every year – I believe they abandoned that system starting with the MP4-27.

[jrg19]

In the post-Newey era, McLaren don't really work like that. Different people are in charge of different aspects of design without any one 'dictator', so to speak. But Goss has been 'Chief Engineer' on the 23 and 25, and played a key role in the 27 (a car which wasn't credited to anyone).

Thanks, am I right in saying Paddy would been seen as the aero guy?

[Mc_Silver]

Official then, Ive asked in the McLaren thread but could anyone help me with the cars Goss has had a major hand in?

AFAIK he was the chief designer of Mp4-23, Mp4-25, Mp4-26, Mp4-27 and now Mp4-28. As he promotoes to technical director role now, I'm curious to know who will be the chief designer of the team?

It is not good we lost Paddy but this will allow opportinies for the other talented engineers to show their worth

Edited by Mc_Silver, 25 February 2013 - 15:39.

[JRizzle86]

Just to clarify, the 'matrix' specifically referred to the way McLaren alternated between two design teams every year – I believe they abandoned that system starting with the MP4-27.

My belief on the matrix structure had nothing to do with the fact they had a change in head of design rotating each year more to do with the fact the structure relies on no one man or woman in the design team. So that when they had critical changes in design personnel the design team was not left adversely affected. I.e. If Newey left Red Bull, they would be screwed.

Edited by JRizzle86, 25 February 2013 - 15:42.

[HopkinsonF1]

My belief on the matrix structure had nothing to do with the fact they had a change in head of design rotating each year more to do with the fact the structure relies on no one man or woman in the design team. So that when they had critical changes in design personnel the design team was not left adversely affected. I.e If Newey left Red Bull, they would be screwed.

Just done a bit of research into the matrix management system and it seems you're right – I take it back. The two-year rotation of development teams seems to be something separate, possibly related (and was abandoned ahead of the 2012 season).

[Mc_Silver]

My belief on the matrix structure had nothing to do with the fact they had a change in head of design rotating each year more to do with the fact the structure relies on no one man or woman in the design team. So that when they had critical changes in design personnel the design team was not left adversely affected. I.e. If Newey left Red Bull, they would be screwed.

Yup, correct. McLaren is not connected to the one man as in Red Bull or some of the other teams. There are lots of talented people behind the scene contributing the success and development of the team. I don't think McLaren will struggle cuz of this move. I'm happy for Tim really he has been with the team since 1990 which shows his loyalty

[JRizzle86]

Just done a bit of research into the matrix management system and it seems you're right – I take it back. The two-year rotation of development teams seems to be something separate, possibly related (and was abandoned ahead of the 2012 season).

It seems we have been in this very situation once before and in all likelihood will be there once again. It is a setup that keeps McLaren at the top winning races, whether it is right to win championships is another kettle of fish.

http://www.grandprix.../mole16530.html

QUOTE FEB 2 2006:

"Yes, that is true," said The Mole. "But you must remember that McLaren is not a normal racing team. They have this belief in something called matrix management which means that people work under a number of different managers, depending on the project they are doing. In theory this improves the flow of information inside a technology company but at the same time allows for more specialization.

"And the downside," said Penelope (Roedean), "is that employees are rather confused about who is the boss and there tend to be problems with conflicting loyalties. On top of that people who worry about their status do not like it because they cannot say: 'I am the technical director'."

"Lot of tosh," said Penelope (Cheltenham Ladies College).

"Perhaps," said The Mole, "but you must remember that the team did win more Grand Prix than any other team last year."

"And still lost the World Championship," said Penelope curtly.

Quite apt.

Edited by JRizzle86, 25 February 2013 - 15:51.

[Owen]

20 years? Richly deserved indeed. Well done Mr Goss.

[F1EC]

According to Joe Saward:

"Goss joined McLaren from Cosworth in 1990. He had been with the engine company for four years, working on its turbocharged engines, having specialised in turbocharging as a post-graduate at Imperial College, London, where he initially gained a First Class Honours Degree in mechanical engineering. He gave up on his doctorate in order to go racing. In his 23 years at Woking he has done a number of different jobs, beginning as a development engineer before becoming a race engineer, the chief test team engineer, the head of vehicle dynamics, the chief engineer of F1 powertrain, the chief engineer and then Director of Engineering. He led the design teams of the MP4-23 (which won six races and the World Championship in 2008), the MP4-25 (which won five races in 2010), the MP4-27 (seven wins) and the new MP4-28".

http://joesaward.wor...ctable-outcome/

[ZooL]

I remember Goss as being the guy who churned out the relatively poorer cars and Pat Fry the relatively better ones...

Either way McLaren should have got rid of Whitmarsh and kept Hamilton.

[PARAZAR]

I remember Goss as being the guy who churned out the relatively poorer cars and Pat Fry the relatively better ones...

Either way McLaren should have got rid of Whitmarsh and kept Hamilton.

He was also responsible for designing the car Lewis won his championship. Either way what does Lewis have to do with this thread? According to him he wanted to leave to try sth else, no harm in that so no problem either way.

[ZooL]

He was also responsible for designing the car Lewis won his championship. Either way what does Lewis have to do with this thread? According to him he wanted to leave to try sth else, no harm in that so no problem either way.

In my opinion Hamilton leaving meant Lowe wanted to leave which meant Goss got promoted.

[Seanspeed]

In my opinion Hamilton leaving meant Lowe wanted to leave which meant Goss got promoted.

Why would an engineer leave just because of Lewis?

[Shiroo]

so they won't go after Allison now? Good.

[ZooL]

Why would an engineer leave just because of Lewis?

Same reason Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn left Bennetton.

Edited by ZooL, 25 February 2013 - 19:20.

[Dalton007]

In my opinion Hamilton leaving meant Lowe wanted to leave which meant Goss got promoted.

It's possible, but we don't know for sure. Everyone needs a new challenge in life, I guess.

[Mc_Silver]

I remember some Lewis fans said Paddy had some problems with Lewis in McLaren. I wonder what they will think about after this now?

[Hairy]

I remember some Lewis fans said Paddy had some problems with Lewis in McLaren. I wonder what they will think about after this now?

I quite like Goss, and think he'll do well.

[Enkei]

I remember some Lewis fans said Paddy had some problems with Lewis in McLaren. I wonder what they will think about after this now?

That was Fry iirc. Had something to do with a racially tinted SMS about Lewis during the Monaco GP.
Quite an accusation, which was rumored to be the cause of him leaving the team. Never saw any verification though.

[ZooL]

That was Fry iirc. Had something to do with a racially tinted SMS about Lewis during the Monaco GP.
Quite an accusation, which was rumored to be the cause of him leaving the team. Never saw any verification though.

The verification was instant dismissal and no gardening leave, which duly meant Pat Fry started his role at Ferrari right away. Unlike Lowe who has to do 1 year gardening leave.

[TurboF1]

Same reason Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn left Bennetton.

While this may be true, I don't think Lewis leaving is the only reason Paddy is going to Mercedes. I think Paddy was at his ceiling in McLaren, and had no further room for growth. His next step up would basically be Whitmarshs' position, which, potentially, isnt gonna be vacant any time soon. Also, if it was, the team already made it clear that the next in line for Team Principal at McLaren would be Sam Michael. He must've felt some amount of "being passed over" after 20 years with the company and not being in the running for the #1 spot. At Merc, his role will be to fill the hole when Brawn leaves.

[chumma]

This is good, Tim lead the development of the 23 (which won the title) and has a history of good cars, where Paddy has had some lemons.

[BigCHrome]

I remember Goss as being the guy who churned out the relatively poorer cars and Pat Fry the relatively better ones...

Either way McLaren should have got rid of Whitmarsh and kept Hamilton.

Pat Fry made the inferior cars, and Goss made the superior cars. -22, -24 for Fry, -23, -25 for Goss.

While this may be true, I don't think Lewis leaving is the only reason Paddy is going to Mercedes. I think Paddy was at his ceiling in McLaren, and had no further room for growth. His next step up would basically be Whitmarshs' position, which, potentially, isnt gonna be vacant any time soon. Also, if it was, the team already made it clear that the next in line for Team Principal at McLaren would be Sam Michael. He must've felt some amount of "being passed over" after 20 years with the company and not being in the running for the #1 spot. At Merc, his role will be to fill the hole when Brawn leaves.

The team hasn't said anything of that sort. Whitmarsh just said that Sam Michael should be striving towards his job. Doesn't matter anyway, as Whitmarsh is unlikely to retire soon.

This is good, Tim lead the development of the 23 (which won the title) and has a history of good cars, where Paddy has had some lemons.

They did not have comparable positions, so that is not really accurate.

Edited by BigCHrome, 26 February 2013 - 00:32.

[chumma]

I remember Goss as being the guy who churned out the relatively poorer cars and Pat Fry the relatively better ones...

Either way McLaren should have got rid of Whitmarsh and kept Hamilton.

Nope, reverse that.