85 replies to this topic

[scandyman]

That's the question he/us may wonder...

[study]

Did he have a choice?

[BMW4life]

That's the question he/us may wonder...

No. He's had a huge come down from the dominant days. He knows he no longer the best, and probably even has doubts that he can beat the best.

[ivand911]

Did he have a choice?

We will never know. There was talks since 2011 to resign with the team, he didn't. They wanted to sign him at the start of 2012. He probably didn't believe in that team any longer. Yeah, if car turn out to be good(second-third fast car) maybe he will regret it. Or maybe he was never thinking to stay more than 3 years in F1. Who knows.

Edited by ivand911, 03 March 2013 - 19:26.

[ivand911]

No. He's had a huge come down from the dominant days. He knows he no longer the best, and probably even has doubts that he can beat the best.

You mean like in Monaco 2012? No, he simply didn't believe that he will have competitive car. Huge come down?? Yeah, his cars were "huge come down".

Edited by ivand911, 03 March 2013 - 19:25.

[SenorSjon]

Last year, the car was also quick in the winter and the first races. He had all kind of issues in the races the car was fast. During the season, development was the worst I've ever seen in F1. I don't believe MGP won't chew and spit it's tires out and I don't belive they can keep up with the established teams in development.

[Tauhid]

not really. I think the team wanted to part with him since he kept them hanging for quite awhile, but thats Michael. I think he has done enough as it is, he'll be happy if Vettel beats his record of title wins. He has aged but the man is in tiptop shape.

[Shiroo]

He wasn't as sharp as he used to be. No point in keeping him more, there are plenty of good young drivers that need a bit experience in F1. What's the point of keeping 43 year old guy in F1 (he could be a father for some drivers in current F1). Enough is enough, he is past his primes and 7x WDC.

[SR388]

Probably not.

What were Michael's goals when he came back from retirement? I thought it was to have fun and enjoy the racing. Mission accomplished. If it was to win a championship, then perhaps mission failure.

[maverick69]

Nah.

I think he needed that last hurrah for better or for worse.

I reckon he's at peace with retirement now.

[ivand911]

Probably not.

What were Michael's goals when he came back from retirement? I thought it was to have fun and enjoy the racing. Mission accomplished. If it was to win a championship, then perhaps mission failure.

Who will not fail in his position? And I don't think he have much fun either. With what he has to endure at MGP.

[Juan Kerr]

No. He's had a huge come down from the dominant days. He knows he no longer the best, and probably even has doubts that he can beat the best.

Actually I disagree, Schumacher is still as fast if not faster and as fit as he needs to be to win races and be champion but does he want to stay up all night with the engineers and visit the factory every day to push everyone further than their program suggested? I think he should've stayed because at some point or other that Mercedes will be a top car. All it shows to me is that he had already patiently waited for them to produce a car and just couldn't wait any longer. He won't regret it. The only thing he will regret is the idiots who doubted him, that must be frustrating since he clearly is super-fast and fit.

[SR388]

Who will not fail in his position? And I don't think he have much fun either. With what he has to endure at MGP.

I never said any one would have done better.

Well then, if he didn't have fun then it was a failure. I really think he was having some fun. He has more than enough money, so he had to feel comfortable with calling it quits earlier.


Overall this is kind of a silly question. We are under the assumption that the Mercedes is going to be really good this year. We could very well ask if Button will regret not signing for Merc and sticking around.

[Sin]

I don't think so, he has a family and children, I think he will enjoy spending time with them.. and he gave the torch to Sebastian

He got 7 WDCs, long way before any of the other current driver champions on grid gets there

Edited by Sin, 03 March 2013 - 19:48.

[olliek88]

He got 7 WDCs, long way before any of the other current driver champions on grid gets there

[Fondmetal]

I dont think Hamilton will blow Nico away, and will further strengthen the claim by some that Rosberg was underrated.. that works out about right from a Schumacher point of view interms of how he fared with Nico last 3 years.

[Longtimefan]

If the Merc is as fast as some people are claiming, then Yes! without a doubt and tbh I'd be pretty cheesed off too, after supporting that team for the past 3 seasons.

[InSearchOfThe]

I don't think so, he has a family and children, I think he will enjoy spending time with them.. and he gave the torch to Sebastian

He got 7 WDCs, long way before any of the other current driver champions on grid gets there

2004 was MSC's last WDC. He was 35.
Vettle is 25 with 3 WDC's already......so he could catch him in 4 years.(Best case) At 29 years old.
Suprised, as a German, you missed this.



I thought Hamiltons decision dictated Mikeys demise.

[Sin]

2004 was MSC's last WDC. He was 35.
Vettle is 25 with 3 WDC's already......so he could catch him in 4 years.(Best case) At 29 years old.
Suprised, as a German, you missed this.



I thought Hamiltons decision dictated Mikeys demise.

I didn't miss it but 4 years is a long time too... and so many things can happen in Formula 1, the probability that Vettel will get 7 WDCs as well is pretty low, how often did that happen in F1 before, which existed for so many years?

Do not understand me wrong Vettel is one of my favorite drivers, but even he himself seems to be a person that always thinks from 1 race to the next and not 4 years in the future

[George Costanza]

With Brackley? I highly doubt he regrets that... Given how much bad luck he had with the car, (it was pretty quick at the start of 2012), but couldn't finish, they couldn't compete in the development race.


If only he stayed with Ferrari, then I am sure he regrets retiring a bit too early in 2006. I think he would have won in 2007 and 2008.

[George Costanza]

Actually I disagree, Schumacher is still as fast if not faster and as fit as he needs to be to win races and be champion but does he want to stay up all night with the engineers and visit the factory every day to push everyone further than their program suggested? I think he should've stayed because at some point or other that Mercedes will be a top car. All it shows to me is that he had already patiently waited for them to produce a car and just couldn't wait any longer. He won't regret it. The only thing he will regret is the idiots who doubted him, that must be frustrating since he clearly is super-fast and fit.

The speed did not leave him at all. We saw this a number of times in 2012, however his ability to do it one lap after lap might have slightly dipped, but given his work ethic.... I am sure he would have find it to work.

If MGP produced a top 3 car with Red Bull and Ferrari, he would be right there with SV and FA.... No doubt, and we know how good he can be with the title targets.

One possible regert is that MGP produced a rocket, and beats all on the grid (Ferrari '04 and Brawn '09)...

Edited by George Costanza, 04 March 2013 - 03:30.

[George Costanza]

2004 was MSC's last WDC. He was 35.
Vettle is 25 with 3 WDC's already......so he could catch him in 4 years.(Best case) At 29 years old.
Suprised, as a German, you missed this.



I thought Hamiltons decision dictated Mikeys demise.

Chances are, Fernando, Kimi can stop SV's run for a time... And 2014 should be interesting, as Adrian Newey's designs really have been gold from 2009 onwards.

People forget than prior to 2009, Adrian's McLarens did not win a barrage of titles (except for 1998 and 1999 WDC under Mika). But, 2014 will be quite complex situation for every desginer.

[George Costanza]

Probably not.

What were Michael's goals when he came back from retirement? I thought it was to have fun and enjoy the racing. Mission accomplished. If it was to win a championship, then perhaps mission failure.

He wanted to win another title. Why else would he come back?

[OO7]

I thought Hamiltons decision dictated Mikeys demise.

I thought Michael was dawdling, not wanting to commit immediately. Ross let him know in advance that they were looking at Hamilton. I could be wrong but I think Michael could have stayed had he wanted.

[sanW10]

Nope!
Merc is always super fast in testing, come race season they themselves dont know what they're doing.
has been the case for the past 3 seasons.

I just hope they've got some kind of data for their tyre temperature problem, hopefully this time they can at the very least 'diagnose' the issue.

that said, I'm never going to be optimistic with this team anymore.

Edited by sanW10, 04 March 2013 - 05:32.

[seahawk]

Without the input from Lewis, the car would just be another midfield car.

[sanW10]

Without the input from Lewis, the car would just be another midfield car.

so whats the role of Nico Rosberg then?
are you saying he is just another 'journey man'?

[JustinD]

The speed did not leave him at all. We saw this a number of times in 2012,..

Yep thats why he was dominated in qualifying by Rosberg in qualifying over 3 years.

[Juggles]

Without the input from Lewis, the car would just be another midfield car.

Something angry this way comes...

[George Costanza]

Yep thats why he was dominated in qualifying by Rosberg in qualifying over 3 years.

Race pace.... Michael was very strong in 2012, and probably would have beaten him...

[Sakae]

Did he have a choice?

Of course he did; let’s don't try to rewrite history. It was his mental and physical exhaustion with the F1 as a whole, just as with the car, why he has not signed up again; so much he, Brawn and Haug all have confirmed.
…and no, he would not be probably happy in 2013, since there is problem with tires once again brewing on the horizon, and he detested those as we all know.

Edited by Sakae, 04 March 2013 - 06:50.

[JustinD]

Race pace.... Michael was very strong in 2012, and probably would have beaten him...

Race pace is very hard to judge properly with all the variables, so qualifying is as always the true judge of pace, and it showed Michael was nothing like the driver he used to be. I don't know why his fans deny it, what do you expect for a guy in his 40s?

[Atreiu]

It seems clear enough he did not have a choice.

[Sakae]

It seems clear enough he did not have a choice.

You are either ill informed, or deliberately spreading misinformation. Which is it?

[PoliFanAthic]

If the car proves to be a reasonably serious contender, I'm sure it will nag him. But that's far from certain at this point, so we'll have to wait and see.

As someone pointed out here already, we know little about how he felt regarding potential WDCs in 2007 and 2008, when the car was definitely capable. We might never find out about the current situation either.

[ForeverF1]

You are either ill informed, or deliberately spreading misinformation. Which is it?

Are you better informed or just being overly nationalistic? Which is it?

[Szoelloe]

I do think that at some point, he had a choice, and he did not make it. By that, he pushed his team into making that choice for themselves. Also, I do not think he regrets retiring and not staying on. F1 has changed radically since his first retirement, and even if he was(and is) still fast enough for the sharp end of this grid by all means, there are some things he would never have adapted to and nowadays are required. So again, no, I definitely think he has no regrets at all.

[KnucklesAgain]

Are you better informed or just being overly nationalistic? Which is it?

I thought it's established fact that he could have resigned if he had decided earlier. Not so?

[Jimmy]

He was dropped in favour of Hamilton. He did not have a choice.

I agree however that he hadn't lost much speed, it was more a case of equality being his achilles heel. In other words, he was exposed.

[ForeverF1]

I thought it's established fact that he could have resigned if he had decided earlier. Not so?

I am not better informed, therefore I don't know. Ah, the vagaries of the English language, did you mean re-signed or resigned?

[KnucklesAgain]

I am not better informed, therefore I don't know. Ah, the vagaries of the English language, did you mean re-signed or resigned?

Sorry, yeah, re-signed

[ForeverF1]

Sorry, yeah, re-signed

I believe, though I don't know, that the choice was his to make. Maybe, he was reticent and the choice was made for him?

[teejay]

I thought it's established fact that he could have resigned if he had decided earlier. Not so?

Im guessing Merc assumed Lewis was only chatting so he could up his value to resign with McLaren - as soon as it became a real chance, Michael was on the outer.

[KnucklesAgain]

I believe, though I don't know, that the choice was his to make. Maybe, he was reticent and the choice was made for him?

That's what I thought, he waited too long to say yes, and then the team chose Lewis.

[ivand911]

Race pace is very hard to judge properly with all the variables, so qualifying is as always the true judge of pace, and it showed Michael was nothing like the driver he used to be. I don't know why his fans deny it, what do you expect for a guy in his 40s?

Did you watch a Q session in 2012? In many of them he show good speed.
About retirement, team says many time that they wait for his decision to continue with the team. This start from the middle of 2011. They urged him to sign and he didn't. If he wanted he have time to sign, but I guess he wasn't sure with the team. But, why he didn't trust for one last year with Costa build car , I don't know. Still if W04 turn outs to be disaster, everyone will say that Michael was right not to continue with the team. Still I wanted him to stay at F1, even with different team. Even his fans has lost faith in MGP, so that was not the problem he left them. Many say back then : Michael leave this clowns.

Edited by ivand911, 04 March 2013 - 08:27.

[SunnyENTP]

The bigger regret was not staying with Ferrari, but then I can put that down to being scared of finally having a formidable team mate in Kimi.

[ivand911]

Im guessing Merc assumed Lewis was only chatting so he could up his value to resign with McLaren - as soon as it became a real chance, Michael was on the outer.

He was, because until that moment he didn't sign new contract with the team. If he did it , there wouldn't be a Lewis talk.

a formidable team mate in Kimi.

Yeah , he is afraid of Kimi as RG is?;) And that easily scared guy returns to F1 after 3 years at 41 years?
Ooh, these Kimi fans and their bed stories.

[Sakae]

Are you better informed or just being overly nationalistic? Which is it?

I have no time (nor will to tell the truth) to go through this again, but I spend considerable time last year to follow Schumacher's saga until the very end; I mean daily, and any source I could get hold off, and all what I can say today, based on what I would consider three relevant interviews conducted in different time slots, it was said by Brawn, and confirmed by Haug, that had Schumacher accepted extension of his contract (about which I have no more information), the seat was his. Why he did not, remains little mystery.

Schumacher on several occassions expressed state of tiredness, and I have very little doubt it was both, physical and mental, as those two go hand-in-hand. Frustration with the car, separation from his family certainly played the role. On one occassion he said - (I am paraphrasing) - I have no more gas in my tank...

Situation with Hamilton was rather concidental, and contrary to what some British media claimed, that Hamilton "booted out" Schumacher. Hamilton became subject of interest only later on when it was clear that he is leaving McLaren, and from him being in fall-back position on short list with other drivers, he has became overnight replacement as part of strategy presented in Stuttgart to convince the Board, that Brackley has a viable plan in place.

On speculative side - Despite his denials, I have no doubts in my mind, that Lauda led anti-Schumacher's efforts, which created some frictions between Michael and the team, as exhibited by that unfortunate, and hastilly called news conference where he announced that he will not re-sign with the team. As you must know, Schumacher told J. Todt about his decision several days in advance, so was reported, whereas Haug and Brawn were notified just minutes in advance. Both men had Lauda on their heals, and they were under the gun to disassociate themselves from Michael, which most likel he has not taken very lightly, and was probably angry.

Much of this was published, and unless we say that we know that Schumacher, Haug, and Brawn are all liars, then what's left is just their statements, and conclusion that Schumacher had a seat, had he re-signed in May or June when they requested of him to do so. That alone is a reason why I would consider some posts in here as patently incorect when they claim, that Schumacher "had no choice, and had to leave", and unless they can show something to the contrary, then I am sticking with history as described herein.

[ForeverF1]

I have no time (nor will to tell the truth) to go through this again, but I spend considerable time last year to follow Schumacher's saga until the very end; I mean daily, and any source I could get hold off, and all what I can say today, based on what I would consider three relevant interviews conducted in different time slots, it was said by Brawn, and confirmed by Haug, that had Schumacher accepted extension of his contract (about which I have no more information), the seat was his. Why he did not, remains little mystery.

Schumacher on several occassions expressed state of tiredness, and I have very little doubt it was both, physical and mental, as those two go hand-in-hand. Frustration with the car, separation from his family certainly played the role. On one occassion he said - (I am paraphrasing) - I have no more gas in my tank...

Situation with Hamilton was rather concidental, and contrary to what some British media claimed, that Hamilton "booted out" Schumacher. Hamilton became subject of interest only later on when it was clear that he is leaving McLaren, and from him being in fall-back position on short list with other drivers, he has became overnight replacement as part of strategy presented in Stuttgart to convince the Board, that Brackley has a viable plan in place.

On speculative side - Despite his denials, I have no doubts in my mind, that Lauda led anti-Schumacher's efforts, which created some frictions between Michael and the team, as exhibited by that unfortunate, and hastilly called news conference where he announced that he will not re-sign with the team. As you must know, Schumacher told J. Todt about his decision several days in advance, so was reported, whereas Haug and Brawn were notified just minutes in advance. Both men had Lauda on their heals, and they were under the gun to disassociate themselves from Michael, which most likel he has not taken very lightly, and was probably angry.

Much of this was published, and unless we say that we know that Schumacher, Haug, and Brawn are all liars, then what's left is just their statements, and conclusion that Schumacher had a seat, had he re-signed in May or June when they requested of him to do so. That alone is a reason why I would consider some posts in here as patently incorect when they claim, that Schumacher "had no choice, and had to leave", and unless they can show something to the contrary, then I am sticking with history as described herein.

Aha, the dratted scurrilous British Media, I stopped reading there. I guess you are no more informed than the rest of us.;)

[Meanbeakin]

Wait until the end of the season before blowing your load over Mercedes testing pace. One thing Brackley has shown is they struggle with car development.