83 replies to this topic

[One]

This subject went though their parliament interview already and this forum had one thread about it. Time to get it back?

After going through parliament once, doing it once more is redundant.

[Fastcake]

I don't see any implications unless there's a government change, which I very much doubt.

[AlexS]

I think Maldonado is racing car material at least so he will be fine, not necessarily in F1. Williams is another story.

Banana republics are typically fickle, but usually when the transition is done by natural death the heir wants to get legitimacy by claiming to defend the former Dictator legacy at least in first years. So i would say international energy market and world economy will have much more impact than the political part.

Venezuela had several energy blackouts last year, a serious fire in Amuay Refinery with around 50 deaths and with current developments in gas field, fracking and with USA maybe going to be oil/gas self suficient by 2015-2019 it might mean less $$$$ to pay peace in the streets of Venezuela.
If we call peace in a country of 30 million that has 50 murders / day. That means 19000 murders/year.
Venezuela behind all political posturing has one of their main markets exporting oil to USA.

Then the social-democrats took over, the economy blew up...

Portuguese here too. The economy blew up much before that. Actually i can even say that it blew up around year 2000, after that was masking things with debt in and out of an housing bubble...

[noikeee]

Portuguese here too. The economy blew up much before that. Actually i can even say that it blew up around year 2000, after that was masking things with debt in and out of an housing bubble...

Oh I am young but have a long memory and would absolutely agree there. I wasn't trying to assign blame on the economy issues, rather pointing out that point is when the issues stopped being masked and we were forced to call for international aid.

We are delving into politics here and straying away from motorsport though, I was just making an example out of Portugal and how it could rely to Venezuela, although the differences between the two cases are very large - we are a democracy for a start, even if a banana republic feel is here too, I should know, I am from Madeira Island.

[BRG]

We are delving into politics here and straying away from motorsport though, I was just making an example out of Portugal and how it could rely to Venezuela, although the differences between the two cases are very large - we are a democracy for a start, even if a banana republic feel is here too, I should know, I am from Madeira Island.

Can we get a few things straight here? There seems to be a lot of misconceptions about Venezuela.

Hugo Chavez was elected (and re-elected last year) in democratic elections. He was not a dictator, although he did in the past try to stage a military coup. He and his party are popular with the poor and the working classes who saw him as their champion against the old ruling elite. Serious inequity between rich and poor and lack of social mobility have been an issue in most Latin American countries for many years and Chavez has played on that to remain in power.

It is still quite possible that his party will win the new election and a new President will continue on the Chavez path. Venzuela has the advantage of being an oil producer at the time when oil prices are very high, so money should not be a problem for PDVSA. Equally Venezuelans are as patriotic as the next country and must surely enjoy seeing one of their folk making headlines in F1. Winning in Spain (the old colonial power) cannot have been unpopular!

So I see business as usual for Pastor as long as he continues to improve and doesn't revert to his banger racing tactics.

[Lotusseven]

Who is the main rival and where is the quote?

The first post in the 'Maldonado's future!?! Hugo Chavez dies...' tread at ten-tenths forum.

[TheUltimateWorrier]

So I see business as usual for Pastor as long as he continues to improve and doesn't revert to his banger racing tactics.

I agree, if he continues to build on his consistency post-Spa 2012 and scores a podium once in a while, he could be in with a shout for a seat at Red Bull or Ferrari in 2014, making all this PDVSA talk a storm in a teacup.

[William Hunt]

I guess we'll have to wait for the implications after the elections

[noikeee]

Vladimir Putin was "democratically elected" too.

Of course Chavez is popular, his government owns almost all the of the media and the TV are entitled by law to broadcast his long speeches. If the only thing the people are fed is rhetoric by one source they are going to believe in that one source.

Technically it is a democracy, in practice it's not black and white.

[ToXiCiTy]

The first post in the 'Maldonado's future!?! Hugo Chavez dies...' tread at ten-tenths forum.

Why dont you just tell it here?

[William Hunt]

Vladimir Putin was "democratically elected" too.

Adolf Hitler was democratically elected too, many people forget that. But anyway, I'm not comparing them and after all this is a motorsport forum, not a politics forum. Just thought it's interesting to mention.

[Lotusseven]

Why dont you just tell it here?

The quote is from the forum I mentioned above. I have no idea who the main rival is, but it maybe is Henrique Capriles ? BBC news old article if it is his name you are asking about ?

[noikeee]

Adolf Hitler was democratically elected too, many people forget that. But anyway, I'm not comparing them and after all this is a motorsport forum, not a politics forum. Just thought it's interesting to mention.

Oh come on, don't support my side of the argument whilst breaking Godwin's Law at the same time.

But yeah way off-topic I'll end here.

[F1ultimate]

If Pastor gets his act together and finish top 10 this year and beats the likes of Sutil and Grosjean int he process then I'll continue getting funding.

[charly0418]

The opposition in Venezuela is very, very critical of the involvement of Sports sponsorship PDSVA has. If I recall correctly Chavez barely won last elections (It was around 56-44)

Because of the death of Chavez, new elections have to take place. If the oppositions wins this time, then yes, you can say good bye to PDSVA involvement in motor sports.

[AlexS]

I am from Madeira Island.

Boa. Beautiful, liked very much my visit there 20 years ago.

If Pastor gets his act together and finish top 10 this year and beats the likes of Sutil and Grosjean int he process then I'll continue getting funding.

That reinforces the idea this year is very important to Maldonado. In fact it is important to several people.

[pingu666]

its f1, you dont have non important years

the last i heard was the country is split over chavez, you either REALLY loved him, or REALLY hated him, so the truth is hard to find, as both sides amp things up and lie.

[Tsarwash]

Venezuela is sitting on the largest proven oil reserves in the whole world. The country is not like other similar sized or located countries. Venezuela has it's medium term future secured as long as nothing too silly happens, and whatever government might take power, I see sponsoring a potential championship winning Venezuelan driver as a valid thing for a country in such an unique position to do.
Considering how much proven oil is lying under the ground in the country, 30 million a year is chickenfeed.

[Amphicar]

You are not talking about motorsport, but politics. I would stick to motorsport in this thread.

Pretty difficult when the thread is about the implications of the death of a politician! Chavez's death will (or will not) have implications for motorsport precisely because it will have political consequences in Venezuela.

[Nemo1965]

If Maldonado's sponsors are not stupid, they will NOT have paid the sponsorship for the whole year in advance, but like any reasonable sponsor, they pay in installments. I think the first three months Maldonado will be fine, even if a totally new kind of goverment is installed in Venezuela.

So later in the year... it could have implications for Williams. But not neccesarily.

[ForeverF1]

Pretty difficult when the thread is about the implications of the death of a politician! Chavez's death will (or will not) have implications for motorsport precisely because it will have political consequences in Venezuela.

If we keep to this theme, there will not be problems.

[olliek88]

If Maldonado's sponsors are not stupid, they will NOT have paid the sponsorship for the whole year in advance, but like any reasonable sponsor, they pay in installments. I think the first three months Maldonado will be fine, even if a totally new kind of goverment is installed in Venezuela.

So later in the year... it could have implications for Williams. But not neccesarily.

Williams would be stupid if they didn't have all the money upfront, if the sponsor fails to pay up half way through the season that leaves them with both a money and a driver shortage, bit of a disaster. Plus this was leaked a while ago suggesting it is all payed up front.

[Dzeidzei]

If Maldonado's sponsors are not stupid, they will NOT have paid the sponsorship for the whole year in advance, but like any reasonable sponsor, they pay in installments. I think the first three months Maldonado will be fine, even if a totally new kind of goverment is installed in Venezuela.

So later in the year... it could have implications for Williams. But not neccesarily.

Venezuela is like the 5th largest oil producer. 30 mil is pocket money in that respect. They might actually think that it´s worth the money to have driver(s) in f1 when the big satan has no one

Not a prob at all.

[Ross Stonefeld]

PDVSA is bigger than Petronas, so there is an argument to be had that they should be doing international sports. Especially motorsports.

They may in the future reassess the specific deals though. It may not be worthwhile to spend all that money in GP2. Or for the money they're giving Williams, to ask for more space on the car.

[Tsarwash]

Williams would be stupid if they didn't have all the money upfront, if the sponsor fails to pay up half way through the season that leaves them with both a money and a driver shortage, bit of a disaster. Plus this was leaked a while ago suggesting it is all payed up front.

That has to be fake. That has their bank details on it ffs. If that is real, then whoever leaked it shall likely be sacked in the morning.

Edited by Tsarwash, 06 March 2013 - 18:14.

[Nemo1965]

Williams would be stupid if they didn't have all the money upfront, if the sponsor fails to pay up half way through the season that leaves them with both a money and a driver shortage, bit of a disaster. Plus this was leaked a while ago suggesting it is all payed up front.

I am really, really, really suprised by that letter, if it is real. I haven't met many racing drivers and not many F1 managers but ALL the ones I spoke to, (Huub Rothengatter to name one) said you would be absolutely crazy as a sponsor to pay all the money upfront. What if the teams folds halfway during the year? How are you sure they don't use the money YOU put in for YOUR driver will be used for the other driver?

Regarding sponsors who stop paying after a while, well... that happens quite often, doesn't it? Look at Bruno Senna at HRT, look at Razia at Marussia, andsoforth...

[Anderis]

I think some of you are unaware of that the pressure was on PDVSA side to offer a deal that would be good enough.

I've read that Maldonado-PDVSA deal was offered to many teams, but Williams was the only one who didn't refuse to have some connections with Chavez. Therefore, their position in negotiations was strong and it was up to PDVSA to offer an acceptable deal. Otherwise, their dream about having Venezuelan driver in F1 wouldn't have come true.

[Mekola]

This situation remind me the one that Fangio did cope after the military coup that deposed Juan Perón in September 1955. He could stay and survive in F1 and won two more championships. But faced some problems in his daily life, in Argentina his goods were menaced by a potential embargo, and even he was prevented to race in Venezuela during late 1957 because Perón was exiled there. For me is not so unlogical Fangio retired from F1 in 1958, when Argentina restored democracy that year.

[AlexS]

its f1, you dont have non important years

There are drivers than can have a slack year. I don't think Maldonado can yet.

[Mohican]

Interesting to see that Williams do their banking business through Barclays - in spite of being sponsored by RBS during several years.

[mattferg]

http://www1.skysport...ent-Hugo-Chavez

Interesting piece on Sky Sports about all this

[GS1]

http://www.grandprix...ns/ns24901.html

source at Williams says deal watertight

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

As far as I know, the money is paid upfront rather than in increments. I don't know if this is a total lump sum corresponding to a contract or paid annually.

[Collective]

It will only be at risk if the opposition wins the presidency. Vice-president Maduro is the heavy favorite, it's not likely. Even if it happened, Capriles (99.999% sure he will be the opposition's candidate) will need to pick his battles carefully, and fighting over a few million bucks for F1 sponsorship doesn't look like a high yield strategy.