204 replies to this topic

[klyster]

http://www.stuff.co....ula-One-drivers

Ferrari's dual world champion Fernando Alonso said the testers, from the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA), arrived at his house at 6.42am on Tuesday (local time).

New McLaren driver Sergio Perez confirmed he had endured a very early morning wake-up call as the result of a surprise urine test.

And Torro Rosso racer Daniel Ricciardo tweeted that he ''Got drug tested early hours this morning.''

He said: ''All of a sudden pissing in your own home becomes difficult with someone staring over your shoulder.''

Drug testing in F1 is relatively rare, but it is not the first time officials have made surprise visits to drivers' homes.

In 2009 Mercedes driver Nico Rosberg - then with Williams F1 - was drug-tested by WADA while on holiday in Ibiza.

He said the agent woke him up at 7am one morning, informing him that he had been selected for random drugs spot-check.

''My girlfriend took the call,'' Rosberg said. ''So it was lucky that the test took place at all because she doesn't like being woken up early while on holiday.''

Mark Webber recently called on Formula One's governing body, the FIA, to step up its drug testing, after a motorcycle racer was banned.

Former MotoGP rider Anthony West, who now races in the second-tier Moto2 category, was banned for a month after testing positive for the stimulant Methylhexaneamine.

Webber welcomed motorcycling's push to ensure the sport is drug-free, and called on the FIA to become more active on the issue.

''I've always been championing the idea to do more of it, but the FIA have never really been that strong on it,'' Webber said.

''The other drivers have never been super strong on it, so it's never really been a huge issue.''

Domestically, V8 Supercar drivers will be drug tested up to three times more often under tougher anti-doping rules to be implemented by motor sport authorities, according to a Fairfax report.

Through CAMS, V8 Supercars complies with the anti-doping requirements of WADA and the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority.

Racing drivers have not been implicated in the recent Australian Crime Commission's investigation into drugs and corruption in sport but CAMS will review its approach to anti-doping, illicit drugs and also race fixing and corruption.

Hey mods, feel free to delete this if you feel it is not thread worthy....

[alfa1]

Mark Webber recently called on Formula One's governing body, the FIA, to step up its drug testing, after a motorcycle racer was banned.

As Mark himself says, one of the problems in sport is the use of painkillers...

Webber said he wasn't familiar with the substance West used, but said a lot of
motorcycle riders compete under "pretty heavy pain killers" at times.

"Obviously it's good they're doing what they can to make sure everyone's as kosher as possible
but I think it's quite difficult for that category, because you see these guys that
are riding ... extremely injured."

And here's an article from the BBC on this painkiller issue...
BBC

The reason I mention it at all is that Mark was being injected with painkiller during the last few races of the 2010 season,
to enhance his performance (because without it, his performance would have been lower).

So yeah, I think they should be tougher on painkillers.
If you need injections of painkiller to mask a broken shoulder pain, you shouldnt be racing.

[whitewaterMkII]

C'mon, Scott Stoddard did just fine in the 1966 season on injections...
Let's do a DQ on everyone who took even an aspirin and won a GP race.
It's completely obvious that drugs in racing DO NOT enhance performance, but they will help a driver cope with the extreme pain involved with pounding a wall, or flipping a car.
I've been a pit or two over the years and I have never met a driver who would WANT to take drugs, unfortunately, there are incidents that require a bit of pain relief, and never anything that isn't prescribed.
Drugs don't enhance performance, but hurt it. Drivers know this.

[alfa1]

Drugs don't enhance performance, but hurt it. Drivers know this.

But in my example we arent talking about the enhancing effect of a drug on a healthy driver.

I was referring to the performance of a driver in pain, as opposed to the performance of a driver (taking drugs) not in pain.
To me, the latter would have a better performance.

Was it your argument that people suffering pain have no performance loss?

[Brother Fox]

I really think these doping agencies have too much power, and we happily hand it over to them.

"arrived at his house at 6.42am on Tuesday" .... thats ridiculous in my book.

[lbennie]

I really think these doping agencies have too much power, and we happily hand it over to them.

"arrived at his house at 6.42am on Tuesday" .... thats ridiculous in my book.

Meh, so is being paid squillions of dollars to play a sport that you love, comes with the territory imo.

[stanga]

I really think these doping agencies have too much power, and we happily hand it over to them.

"arrived at his house at 6.42am on Tuesday" .... thats ridiculous in my book.

Lance Armstrong agrees.

[Kalmake]

Almost all racing doping cases are for using recreational drugs outside the actual sporting events. IMO these shouldn't even be tested for. If you are not high "at work", it shouldn't be their business. It's just enforcing a moral code.

There are PEDs that could be used for racing, but I can't imagine anything that a driver would be on during off season.

[stairpotato]

Lance Armstrong agrees.

[femi]

Just curious, does anyone know what substances are the banned list for F1 drivers? I don't see how drugs enhances the performance of a F1 driver as it does for example a bicycle rider or a 100m athlete.

I can understand it on grounds of safety as a driver that is as high as a kite poses some danger to other drivers but can't remember if F1 ever had such a problem.

[Gilles4Ever]

Just curious, does anyone know what substances are the banned list for F1 drivers? I don't see how drugs enhances the performance of a F1 driver as it does for example a bicycle rider or a 100m athlete.

I can understand it on grounds of safety as a driver that is as high as a kite poses some danger to other drivers but can't remember if F1 ever had such a problem.

AFAIK F1 doesn't have it's own list of banned substances, it uses the IOC list.

Edit: http://www.ausmotive...ug-testing.html

Professor Sid Watkins explained that ephedrine had no effect whatsoever on a driver’s ability to perform and suggested that it was probably better if F1 did not use the same list of banned drugs as the International Olympic Committee as it was not specifically designed for F1.

[teejay]

Tests will generally be at odd hours, still asleep so anything is in the system before a chance to do a lance armstrong fluid change.

[Dipster]

AFAIK F1 doesn't have it's own list of banned substances, it uses the IOC list.

Edit: http://www.ausmotive...ug-testing.html

Drugs in motor sport?

I have no idea if such substances exist but I imagine that something that could reduce reaction times would be useful. And anything that raises the ability to keep stress levels under control. Or to increase the ability to function at full strength for longer.

So I imagine somebody somewhere will have been tempted to a least investigate the possibilities.

Typo edited.

Edited by Dipster, 06 March 2013 - 09:20.

[lbennie]

Just curious, does anyone know what substances are the banned list for F1 drivers? I don't see how drugs enhances the performance of a F1 driver as it does for example a bicycle rider or a 100m athlete.

I can understand it on grounds of safety as a driver that is as high as a kite poses some danger to other drivers but can't remember if F1 ever had such a problem.

Anything aiding endurance would give a massive advantage to an f1 driver.

EPO etc - anything that boosts the amount of oxygen available to cells.

Why do you think drivers spend so much time working on their fitness.

[Gilles4Ever]

Anything aiding endurance would give a massive advantage to an f1 driver.

EPO etc - anything that boosts the amount of oxygen available to cells.

Why do you think drivers spend so much time working on their fitness.

from that same article

Racing drivers—particularly the successful ones—have tended to find in recent years that fitness is a key factor in success and so they have avoided alcohol and drugs. They live on strict diets and, according to French sports medicine expert Pierre Baleydier, there are currently no drugs which can improve the performance of F1 drivers.

“Is there a drug that would make an F1 driver go faster?” said Baleydier recently. “As far as I know no such thing exists. Anabolic steriods, growth hormones and so on are of no interest in F1: what good is increasing the physical power of a driver and paying for it with excess weight? Amphetamines push back the threshold of pain and fatigue. That is true in more demanding sports than F1 where the effort lasts more than 90 minutes, but amphetamines create euphoria and that is to the detriment of clear-thinking and that does not seem like a good idea to me in F1. There are downsides too with beta-blockers, which reduce stress . They slow down the reflexes. Given the specific things demanded from a racing driver it seems to me that F1 is protected from the drugs plague and so spared from it.”

[lbennie]

Not faster, but would increase ability to stave off fatigue late on in the race. Greatly increasing concentration etc.

With all due respect Pierre is being very short sighted there, he says fitness is a key factor in performance, and that is exactly what blood boosters do, make the body artificially fitter - so to speak.

Edited by lbennie, 06 March 2013 - 10:22.

[Sin]

I thought that was a general test for all drivers? Or am I wrong? Did they just pick those 3? *blinks*

[Jackmancer]

I think it's really good they're doing this.

[Brother Fox]

I hope taurine and guarana etc aren't banned. It would be pretty embarrassing for a driver to be pinned when pretty much every team is sponsored by an energy drink in some way

[Fastcake]

Not faster, but would increase ability to stave off fatigue late on in the race. Greatly increasing concentration etc.

With all due respect Pierre is being very short sighted there, he says fitness is a key factor in performance, and that is exactly what blood boosters do, make the body artificially fitter - so to speak.

I could possibly see that argument used for Le Mans, but for F1? I agree with the Doctor here, I don't see how drugs can really help you for a 90-120 minute motor race.

I thought that was a general test for all drivers? Or am I wrong? Did they just pick those 3? *blinks*

I doubt there's anywhere near the priority of drugs testing for racing drivers as there is for many other sports. WADA only have limited resources, and need to concentrate on sports with serious drugs problems.

[Philzippy]

[quote name='Fastcake' date='Mar 6 2013, 10:47' post='6154555']
I don't see how drugs can really help you for a 90-120 minute motor race.

Is that a joke?

[Ross Stonefeld]

I couldn't pee on demand, and certainly not with someone inspecting me. Can't they draw blood?

[BlackCat]

anybody remembers Achille Varzi?

[PassWind]

Painkillers is an interesting aspect, however in so far as prescribed amounts. If a driver has more than the prescribed amounts then they are like anyone else including workers who are not athletes being tested for fitness for work.

For mine it's not about performance enhancement but more about substance abuse which could be lead to a driver being hazardous on a racetrack. Being under the influence of a substance that puts other drivers, crew, race workers, and fans health and safety at risk through their actions.

I tend to agree with one poster, it should not be life style testing unless it was agreed to in the sporting code and as a matter of holding a racing license for financial gain that you agreed to subject yourself to lifestyle testing. Racing drivers should be testing under a fitness for work regime in my opinion.

The painkiller argument is a little silly IMO, if you had a driver who suffered clinical depression and was under medical supervision on a regime of SRNI's isn't that enhancing that individuals ability to function? To me that's discrimatory for a known ailment and is inclusive of pain management under medical supervision. If its declared and you are medically cleared for racing activities its not an issue.

[PassWind]

I couldn't pee on demand, and certainly not with someone inspecting me. Can't they draw blood?

Once your informed that your to provide a sample you are in a controlled test environment, you will be given the time to produce a sample including the ability to consume fluids to encourage the process. The longest I have personally seen is 6 hours all the while observed, isolated and given fluids from a known source.

Not sure of the the specifics for this type of testing but there would be a range of caveats to provide the same outcome.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I'd be cutting myself and dripping blood into a glass rather than wait 6 hours to pee, jesus

[PassWind]

I'd be cutting myself and dripping blood into a glass rather than wait 6 hours to pee, jesus

Yeah agree the process can be very intimidating for some, I quickly learnt when tested how to not have to hang around the men's toilet for very long. When I was doing my assessments for becoming a testing officer, my first observer was female, was the most uncomfortable 9 mins of my life

[BRG]

It's completely obvious that drugs in racing DO NOT enhance performance

Well, I'm glad you've cleared that up for us. Presumably you ARE an expert on the subject? Unlike WADA who are of course a bunch of guys with no knowledge or experience at all....

I have been expecting a drug scandal in motor sport for some years and this may be the first hint that it is coming. If anyone really believes that no-one in motor sport can get (and has got) an advantage from using some sort of banned substance, then they are very, very naive.

Edited by BRG, 06 March 2013 - 11:52.

[Seanspeed]

from that same article

Amphetamines push back the threshold of pain and fatigue. That is true in more demanding sports than F1 where the effort lasts more than 90 minutes, but amphetamines create euphoria and that is to the detriment of clear-thinking and that does not seem like a good idea to me in F1.

Is that a joke? Amphetamines seem like the perfect 'racing driver' drug. It does not cloud 'clear judgemental' at all. In fact, its prescribed to people precisely to help those who aren't focused and clear-thinking. Its long lasting, so will easily last over a race distance. It'll basically keep them super-focused for the entire length of the race.

[maverick69]

Well. I do recall a doctor coming out and saying that many of the drivers used a bit of the old Colombian marching powder to get them..... erm...... up to speed for the start of races......

[f1fan1998]

I have heard similar but from within the sport. I was told in the early 2000's Button was doing this as well as Montoya. The person who told me was credible enough, but she was know for a bit of tittle tattle. Honestly I didn't believe her and still don't.

[maverick69]

I have heard similar but from within the sport. I was told in the early 2000's Button was doing this as well as Montoya. The person who told me was credible enough, but she was know for a bit of tittle tattle. Honestly I didn't believe her and still don't.

So did I. But I'll not say too much on that......

Here's a linky: http://tvnz.co.nz/co...17/article.html

[alframsey]

Almost all racing doping cases are for using recreational drugs outside the actual sporting events. IMO these shouldn't even be tested for. If you are not high "at work", it shouldn't be their business. It's just enforcing a moral code.

There are PEDs that could be used for racing, but I can't imagine anything that a driver would be on during off season.

I agree tbh, what someone does in their free time to relax is their business. As long as they aren't high as a kite when driving or on a comedown when they step inside the car then let them be, if however there are certain drugs which can increase performance, I don't know of any that would be useful for an F1 driver, then test them for it!

[Ross Stonefeld]

Yeah agree the process can be very intimidating for some, I quickly learnt when tested how to not have to hang around the men's toilet for very long. When I was doing my assessments for becoming a testing officer, my first observer was female, was the most uncomfortable 9 mins of my life

So why don't you guys take a vial of blood or something? It'd be just as quick, it's slightly less invasive, it's not that hard to do, you use a nurse qualified as a drug test taker, etc.

[Brother Fox]

Is that a joke? Amphetamines seem like the perfect 'racing driver' drug. It does not cloud 'clear judgemental' at all. In fact, its prescribed to people precisely to help those who aren't focused and clear-thinking. Its long lasting, so will easily last over a race distance. It'll basically keep them super-focused for the entire length of the race.

However, some are very short acting too, and are like switch being either on or off with nowhere in between

[Brother Fox]

So why don't you guys take a vial of blood or something? It'd be just as quick, it's slightly less invasive, it's not that hard to do, you use a nurse qualified as a drug test taker, etc.

Some could refuse on religious grounds and then you're opening up a BIG can of worms

[MichaelPM]

Provigil is supposed to give the effect of amphetamines but without a come down, not something you'd catch them taking off season or after winter testing. They should test the designers if they want to catch "amphetamine" abuse but you can most likely get a provigil exemption if you have been diagnosed (rightly or wrongly) with narcolepsy.

Steroids come in many different flavours, not just big bulky muscles. Mostly they are used for recovery during intense training camps but it compromises fast twitch muscles which is required for most sports so you only see the benefit after recovering from the cycle which I wouldn't expect them to catch anyone doping with in F1 right now unless they are naively hurting rather than helping their performance anyway.

Edited by MichaelPM, 06 March 2013 - 12:39.

[maverick69]

At some points last year I was convinced that Grow John had been on the Jamaican woodbines.......

[BoschKurve]

Certain drugs can improve reaction times.

[kosmos]

The funny thing is that they have to watch you while you do your thing, something that makes sense because all the cheaters in other sports.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Some could refuse on religious grounds and then you're opening up a BIG can of worms

Can't I refuse to pee in public on privacy grounds? You agree to submit to drug testing as part of sports, sure someone would challenge it but you aren't forced to do it.

[jj2728]

anybody remembers Achille Varzi?

Yep, both he and Scott Stoddard as mentioned earlier....

[BRG]

Can't I refuse to pee in public on privacy grounds? You agree to submit to drug testing as part of sports, sure someone would challenge it but you aren't forced to do it.

No, but if you refuse to give either a urine or a blood sample, you are deemed to be in breach of the rules. Just like missing a regular drug test or failing to keep the testers informed of your whereabouts so they can make a random test. People have been banned in other sports for these things. I reckon they have been through all this in athletics, cycling, swimming etc and have sealed up all the loopholes!

[femi]

No, but if you refuse to give either a urine or a blood sample, you are deemed to be in breach of the rules. Just like missing a regular drug test or failing to keep the testers informed of your whereabouts so they can make a random test. People have been banned in other sports for these things. I reckon they have been through all this in athletics, cycling, swimming etc and have sealed up all the loopholes!

No one is forced to be a F1 driver, they are not forced to take the test. If they don't like the rules, they can quit F1.

[femi]

Is that a joke? Amphetamines seem like the perfect 'racing driver' drug. It does not cloud 'clear judgemental' at all. In fact, its prescribed to people precisely to help those who aren't focused and clear-thinking. Its long lasting, so will easily last over a race distance. It'll basically keep them super-focused for the entire length of the race.

If true, you have just made an excellent case for allowing amphetamines for F1 drivers on safety grounds

[Brother Fox]

You should be allowed to refuse to pee in front of someone else. But as per my first point, individuals rights seem to come second to 'being tough on drugs' - even if it means treating everyone like they're guilty and you have to prove your innocence.

There was a bit of a kerfuffle years ago here where the Aussie mob (ASADA) wanted to test some high level schoolboy athletes. They tried to insist on watching the samples but he teacher held their ground and said no kids in their care were going to be watched while they pee.

[Les]

Yep, both he and Scott Stoddard as mentioned earlier....

And Thomas Enge so it has been known for drivers to take drugs. Oh and a certain very famous driver, a long time ago, who allegedly crashed out of the British Grand Prix in the early laps whilst under the influence of weed...

Edited by Les, 06 March 2013 - 13:25.

[InfectedPumpkin]

I could possibly see that argument used for Le Mans, but for F1? I agree with the Doctor here, I don't see how drugs can really help you for a 90-120 minute motor race.

What?!
Didn't you ever see F1 driver who passed out after hard race?

[maverick69]

You should be allowed to refuse to pee in front of someone else. But as per my first point, individuals rights seem to come second to 'being tough on drugs' - even if it means treating everyone like they're guilty and you have to prove your innocence.

There was a bit of a kerfuffle years ago here where the Aussie mob (ASADA) wanted to test some high level schoolboy athletes. They tried to insist on watching the samples but he teacher held their ground and said no kids in their care were going to be watched while they pee.

I'd say "Sure....... but you can hold the cup". Then I'd accidentally miss...... quite a lot.

And that's what I call taking the piss

[Seanspeed]

However, some are very short acting too, and are like switch being either on or off with nowhere in between

I've not heard of a short-acting amphetamine. As far as I'm aware, they are all very long lasting.

If true, you have just made an excellent case for allowing amphetamines for F1 drivers on safety grounds

I know you're joking, but in a lot cases, it actually could be. Your 'awareness' is heightened greatly. The flipside is that it could lead to overconfidence or aggressive driving. It'd be probably balance out in the end.

The real problem with PED's comes with parity and younger generations. I hear a lot of people say we should allow PED's in sports, but this just raises the bar so that everyone feels they need to take them and sportsmen/women shouldn't have to take harmful substances in order to compete with the best. It also means that younger and younger generations feel pressured to start taking them in order to get that edge as just getting up the ranks is possibly the most difficult part of most sports. And the more young competitors do it, the more the rest will feel the need to do it as well to keep up. Its a harmful cycle. On an individual basis, I could care less if somebody takes steroids or amphetamines, as its their body, but the slippery slope of allowing it would be way too dangerous. So I agree fully with banning them and of fairly strict testing standards. Its best to stamp it out as thoroughly as possible.

Edited by Seanspeed, 06 March 2013 - 13:34.